Sexual Fetishes

[petra]

Does anyone want to contribute some thoughts about where sexual fetishes come from? Or is that stepping over the line? Just delete my posting if I've gone too far. Tried searching forum title's with 0 result - same as with the phobias

General consensus is that fetishes are more common in males too, so I'd love a male perspective. I don't think I have any fetishes, so I'm probably not even qualified to talk about this.

I'm not so interested in what the fetishes ARE specifically, as to where they (could maybe) originate. I'm comparing fetishes to phobias as well. Not as an opposing force, more like 2 inexplicable things which are somewhat related.

[drgreig]

Although the "experts" can all agree on one thing when it comes to sexual fetishes (being that they have NO idea where they come from), I've deduced that from the fact that fetishes always appear to be focussed on non-genital body parts and/or material, non-living objects (i.e. female undergarments, high-heels etc...) that there may very well be a lack in experiencing sexual arousal from a natural, spiritual, non-materialistic way.

Is this merely a product of modern humans who are lacking in a spiritual outlook on life? Very hard to say...

[christian]

I believe anything can be the answer.

Experiences from a past lifetime... I'm sure you'll come across stories of people who remember having experienced something in a past lifetime, who are seeking to somehow repeat this experience because it gives them pleasure.

Then fetishes can also have genetic roots. Two stories that I came across and found curious are the case of the hetero rugby player, who had a stroke and since then became a gay hairdresser. Or the observation that a foot fetish could possibly result from a cross-wiring between the foot and the genital parts of the brain.

Of course there can be a bazillion other reasons like experiences in this lifetime or social conditioning... Asking where does a sexual fetish come from is in the end a way of asking, "why does a person like something?" The answers to this are as manifold as the wonders of existence.

[AutumnW]

I read about a turkey and tortoise who shared a pen while both recuperated from injuries at a sanctuary. The turkey was within close proximity to the tortoise at a vulnerable stage of brain and turkey personality development. He fell in love with the tortoise...deeply deeply in love. I don't know if that's a Hallmark moment thing or triple X porn, but it sure explains a lot to me.

[Ratszinger]

I've often been puzzled by people and the need for sex since very young. As a youth all my friends, my male friends anyway, were 'horn dogs' basically! I thought of their need for sex as much the same later in life as their need for pot or beer because they seemed to be the same as far as behavior before they found either. I used to laugh and even sometimes pretend to be like them but the truth is when it came to sex anyway I could always take it or leave it. My wife is the same way. Is it a sexual fetish to not want it? I mean I'm 58 and I haven't had sex since I was 49! On purpose! What's more I wish everyone had the relief of no sexual tension in their life like us. My friends from my youth are still horn dogs even now! Go figure! I guess when it comes to sex the wife and I see it sort of like the Sheldon Cooper character on TV, messy, unsanitary and mostly a lot of work and 'YUK!' On second thought I guess if everyone was like us overpopulation would not be a problem survival of the fittest and all. I do find interest in the subject but purely as a curiosity since for whatever reason I don't fully understand the need or desire for it like everyone else.

[greybeard]

What is a fetish to one is probably perfectly normal to someone else.
They get pleasure from it.
We want to label things and want to set a norm to feel safe, separate and sometimes superior as in High ground.

Chris

[Mike]

Freud - surprise surprise - has a few ideas on the topic. But this reads like utter rubbish to me. I don't think it makes the slightest bit of sense.

http://science.jrank.org/pages/9365/...rventions.html

Maybe I'm becoming a bit of a prude as I get older; I haven't written anything remotely suggestive, and yet I'm already blushing and perspiring (..and still, somewhere in there is a 10 yr old kid who is dying to tell every dick joke he's ever heard. Surely Freud would have something to say about that too)

I think everyone has distortions and irrational preoccupations. They run thru the entire spectrum of one's life, and when that spectrum bleeds into the sexual arena, they manifest as "fetishes".

I think if one grows up in an atmosphere of repression - sexual and otherwise - these distortions will be more pronounced, and the fetishes therefore more strong and frequently expressed. In my opinion, a fetish is an expression of something that has been repressed. I think it can also manifest in response to trauma as well.

They seem to be divided into 2 categories: subservient fetishes and dominant fetishes. Subservient fetishers are usually in positions of power in their daily life, and may want to experience the brief thrill of being dictated to. And the opposite is true of dominant fetishers.

That's a remarkably simple explanation, but i think its generally true.

[Tam]

I have a friend who's very open, sexually. He and I actually discussed this at length, as well as his own fetishes. His own fetishes are quite colorful, among them are BDSM. I'll leave the finer details out, but when I asked him why he was interested in such things sexually (I find nothing wrong with it, as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult), and he told me for him, the exchange of power and control with his husband made their bond stronger, as well as improved trust and communication. He also found it exhilarating and liberating, because it allowed for total rawness with that partner, the kind of intimacy that bares it all. He said that was what appealed to him for BDSM. Later on, he got more hardcore with it, introducing light-to-moderate pain, and his explanation for that is that the contrast of pain/pleasure heightened the pleasure.

So to that end, perhaps some fetishes have no origin, but merely have something to do with our very nature.

Other fetishes, though, I think are rooted in trauma. Incest fetishes would be one of them, as would be rape fantasy.

Of course, there's all kinds of fetishes.out there. Some are wacky, others disturbing, and some of the darker, illegal ones, clearly depraved. But I think most of them are just kinks, something that a person is either born with, or forms due to life experiences, in a sort of Freudian way.

[DeDukshyn]

It can come from various arenas, I'd say. Some of it is intrinsic - I have a friend who has a big thing for a girl's nape. in order to see a girl's nape, she must be in front with her back turned - a submissive position. In animal realms (of which we are part), sex is most often initiated in this position. I'd say there's a deep instinctual component to this, possibly combined with his preference for dominance in a sexual encounter. So that makes sense to me. Just reading Indigris post above, I'd say the concept of power and control is also possibly a part of what I see as this animilistic instinct.

I'd say some fetishes also just come from past experiences in youth that carried a strong emotional (possibly "hormone" driven) response, that allowed an imprint on emotional memory. The memory of this experience creates the desire to replicate it.

In my opinion there's nothing wrong with fetishes at all, some are even really comical, but where someone gets harmed against their will, the line is before that somewhere, before crossing the fetish line into a crime.

[5th]

Obviously a very complex subject and yet another example of how the average person (and even mainstream psychologists) have no idea how the human psyche works.

The main explanation of the origin of fetishes lies in the interruption of the normal energy flow in the body caused by the leaking of emotional energy.

If we look at how animals have sex it is invariably after serious competition between males for mating rights (often even heavy fighting). The human animal is not much different although our competition for mating rights is usually more subtle. But in almost every case the process goes like this:

Competition for the female with high stress - victory and relief of stress - sexual arousal and mating. With humans, even if the first stage does not involve actual competition it certainly involves the high stress of 'getting the girl'.

Now, to a greater or lesser degree every human has repressed traumas from childhood which create varying degrees of constant, unrelieved stress. This interferes with the Stress - Relief of Stress - Sexual Arousal process because there can never be total relief of stress. For the average person who has minimal trauma, this doesn't matter much but for somebody who has a high level of 'background stress' there is never sufficient relief of stress to get normal sexual arousal.

Anyone who is sceptical of this process should research what happen to soldiers in battle. After the battle and when the stress level dies down it is well document that many get erections. Again, young men who drive fast to impress the girl - similar process!

So, if this Stress - Relief of Stress - Sexual Arousal process gets restricted at the second stage, the subject has to introduce a 4th element to achieve sexual arousal and that's where the fetish comes in. The choice of fetish will obviously be subconscious and usually goes back to the first sexual arousal as a baby. For example, a baby who was left on the floor with the mother walking around in bare feet may well end up with a foot fetish.

There are many degrees of extremity depending on the degree of trauma right up to the highest level where a man can only achieve arousal and orgasm if he kills the woman.

[Pam]

I know several people that have sexual fetishes. One of the people relates the fetish to an incident that occurred as a young teenager. He has been trying to recapture the excitement and stimulation of the event ever since. In this case at least it almost seems like an addict, trying to get that first euphoric high back.

[Carmody]

Natural or original methods of imprint and stimulation are now largely missing from the human sphere of life. It is more a roll of the dice, and chance, in what becomes the outliers of the given imprint in sexuality. Which indicate an unknown, unrecognized, and uncontrolled parameter.

The hunter/gatherer days had things being quite different. Where the social and cultural spaces provided the genesis and shape of the imprint, with minor variation.

As Musk noted in his interview with Rogan, humans are mostly limbic. They think they are conscious but that is mostly the ever present ego loop.

[petra]

Thanks for all the contributions everyone. I expected a slap in the face.. and ended up getting lumps of gold instead. I'm really legitimately concerned about "Blood Fetish" and "Poop Fetish" in particular. For anyone who thinks fetishes are not dangerous, I urge you to consider those two. Also just because something can't physically hurt you, does not mean that it isn't dangerous.

Posted by 5th (here)
...
Anyone who is sceptical of this process should research what happen to soldiers in battle. After the battle and when the stress level dies down it is well document that many get erections. Again, young men who drive fast to impress the girl - similar process!

So, if this Stress - Relief of Stress - Sexual Arousal process gets restricted at the second stage, the subject has to introduce a 4th element to achieve sexual arousal and that's where the fetish comes in. The choice of fetish will obviously be subconscious and usually goes back to the first sexual arousal as a baby. For example, a baby who was left on the floor with the mother walking around in bare feet may well end up with a foot fetish.

There are many degrees of extremity depending on the degree of trauma right up to the highest level where a man can only achieve arousal and orgasm if he kills the woman.

5th's posting scared me the most... way to go 5th lol

That's frightening about killing people to get an orgasm. I probably should have known that exists from watching Criminal Minds, had to stop watching that though (shudder). That's a really dangerous one too, surely.

Posted by Ratszinger (here)
Is it a sexual fetish to not want it? I mean I'm 58 and I haven't had sex since I was 49! On purpose! What's more I wish everyone had the relief of no sexual tension in their life like us. My friends from my youth are still horn dogs even now! Go figure! I guess when it comes to sex the wife and I see it sort of like the Sheldon Cooper character on TV, messy, unsanitary and mostly a lot of work and 'YUK!' On second thought I guess if everyone was like us overpopulation would not be a problem survival of the fittest and all. I do find interest in the subject but purely as a curiosity since for whatever reason I don't fully understand the need or desire for it like everyone else.

I cracked up at this. Oh my. Yeah... I get excited about NOT having sex too (ha ha), so I find it hard to consider the sexual fetish topic objectively. Comparing with phobias is pretty tricky too, since there seems to me many many more reasons a fetish can occur than a phobia can.

Posted by AutumnW (here)
I read about a turkey and tortoise who shared a pen while both recuperated from injuries at a sanctuary. The turkey was within close proximity to the tortoise at a vulnerable stage of brain and turkey personality development. He fell in love with the tortoise...deeply deeply in love. I don't know if that's a Hallmark moment thing or triple X porn, but it sure explains a lot to me.

I think a lot of it must be conditioning. That's what I have been guessing for a lot of fetishes so far. That example reminds me of Stockholm Syndrome.

Posted by christian (here)
Of course there can be a bazillion other reasons like experiences in this lifetime or social conditioning... Asking where does a sexual fetish come from is in the end a way of asking, "why does a person like something?" The answers to this are as manifold as the wonders of existence.

Good point, I think this goes deeper though. It's not the same as liking or disliking ketchup. No one gets emotional over ketchup.

Posted by drgreig (here)
Is this merely a product of modern humans who are lacking in a spiritual outlook on life? Very hard to say...

I don't think it's quite like that, but maybe. I feel like it might be more related to the environment than anything else. Dreams, in a way, do kind of contribute to our "environment". It's just imaginary environment.

Posted by Mike (here)
I think if one grows up in an atmosphere of repression - sexual and otherwise - these distortions will be more pronounced, and the fetishes therefore more strong and frequently expressed. In my opinion, a fetish is an expression of something that has been repressed. I think it can also manifest in response to trauma as well.

They seem to be divided into 2 categories: subservient fetishes and dominant fetishes. Subservient fetishers are usually in positions of power in their daily life, and may want to experience the brief thrill of being dictated to. And the opposite is true of dominant fetishers.

That's a remarkably simple explanation, but i think its generally true.

Well there's a great connection to repression!
Repression is really starting to get on my nerves, and things like that make me question the idea of repression being a "defense mechanism". I suppose it's possible to exploit defense mechanisms though

Thanks for pointing out the categories, that's important! S&M is something I vaguely understand the concept of. If I were to lean one way or the other, I guess I'd be the M. Those two categories fit together like puzzle pieces. I'll be back again once I've processed more!

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Posted by drgreig (here)
there may very well be a lack in experiencing sexual arousal from a natural, spiritual, non-materialistic way.

Is this merely a product of modern humans who are lacking in a spiritual outlook on life? Very hard to say...

Your answer resonates with me, even though the whole topic of fetishes confuses me.

My interest has always been in the people who can derive lifelong satisfaction in a traditional marriage from "vanilla sex." I've always seen people who have to do circus acts to get each other off as missing something fundamental about the whole experience.

You may have hit the nail on the head with spiritual outlooks vs. materialist outlooks. Some kind of traumatic abuse could probably give someone a bizarre fetish too.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by drgreig (here)
Although the "experts" can all agree on one thing when it comes to sexual fetishes (being that they have NO idea where they come from), I've deduced that from the fact that fetishes always appear to be focussed on non-genital body parts and/or material, non-living objects (i.e. female undergarments, high-heels etc...) that there may very well be a lack in experiencing sexual arousal from a natural, spiritual, non-materialistic way.

Is this merely a product of modern humans who are lacking in a spiritual outlook on life? Very hard to say...

If what you say is true, truly spiritual people must then not have fetishes? I wonder if there's any stats or anecdotes that can support this?

[petra]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by drgreig (here)
Although the "experts" can all agree on one thing when it comes to sexual fetishes (being that they have NO idea where they come from), I've deduced that from the fact that fetishes always appear to be focussed on non-genital body parts and/or material, non-living objects (i.e. female undergarments, high-heels etc...) that there may very well be a lack in experiencing sexual arousal from a natural, spiritual, non-materialistic way.

Is this merely a product of modern humans who are lacking in a spiritual outlook on life? Very hard to say...

If what you say is true, truly spiritual people must then not have fetishes? I wonder if there's any stats or anecdotes that can support this?

I wonder about that exact same thing. It's certainly not easy to talk about in everyday conversation, and also people tend to lie about it a lot, or simply just not tell the whole truth - because it's embarrassing.

Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)

Posted by drgreig (here)
there may very well be a lack in experiencing sexual arousal from a natural, spiritual, non-materialistic way.

Is this merely a product of modern humans who are lacking in a spiritual outlook on life? Very hard to say...

Your answer resonates with me, even though the whole topic of fetishes confuses me.

My interest has always been in the people who can derive lifelong satisfaction in a traditional marriage from "vanilla sex." I've always seen people who have to do circus acts to get each other off as missing something fundamental about the whole experience.

You may have hit the nail on the head with spiritual outlooks vs. materialist outlooks. Some kind of traumatic abuse could probably give someone a bizarre fetish too.

I like vanilla the best - and same applies with my ice cream! (ha ha) I'm not materialistic -or- spiritual really, but I suppose if I had to lean one way, it would be the spiritual way.

I cried when a guy (who I am no longer dating) wanted to try anal sex with me. I was almost going to go along with it, but then I just had to change my mind - I couldn't go through with it. Some females like that I've heard - just not this one.

One thing I've thought of before but not fully explained yet is the idea of conditioning. The idea is, that humans can be conditioned to get turned on by just about anything. For example I read about a man who had a pain fetish a while back, and when he was regressed he remembered being hidden in his mother's closet while she had sex with his uncle. They found him, the uncle beat the crap out of him, and somehow he seemed to have associated the pain with the sex.

The idea of people conditioning fetishes on purpose is something that really disgusts me, because I definitely think that's possible.

In my mind, women on a whole seem to be much more diabolical and vengeful than men are.

Also women have admitted to choosing to be lesbian (I'm sure they have their good reasons), but I've never heard of a man "choosing" to be gay.

I can understand gayness, but I cannot understand bisexuality. I know that's not quite a fetish but I do think it's kind of close. Perhaps those ones are the more spiritual, since they don't seem to have any restrictions.

[greybeard]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by drgreig (here)
Although the "experts" can all agree on one thing when it comes to sexual fetishes (being that they have NO idea where they come from), I've deduced that from the fact that fetishes always appear to be focussed on non-genital body parts and/or material, non-living objects (i.e. female undergarments, high-heels etc...) that there may very well be a lack in experiencing sexual arousal from a natural, spiritual, non-materialistic way.

Is this merely a product of modern humans who are lacking in a spiritual outlook on life? Very hard to say...

If what you say is true, truly spiritual people must then not have fetishes? I wonder if there's any stats or anecdotes that can support this?

Hello DeDukshyn/drgrieg
Spirituality has nothing to do with anything other than Self Realization.
So in theory the "bad guys" have the same chance of enlightenment as everyone else.
Yes some teachers will say you have to purify this and that but others say what you truly are is already perfect etc.
Just a question of seeing that you are not the body/mind and all its wants needs and desires.
There are that many of them there is no way you can get rid of all of them--trying a waste of time.
Spirituality is not about becoming a Saint.
Let him without sin throw the first stone and who is to say what is a sin?
Fetish is part of human nature o it would not be there.
Some are acceptable and some are not in the eyes of so called norm.

Chris

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by drgreig (here)
Although the "experts" can all agree on one thing when it comes to sexual fetishes (being that they have NO idea where they come from), I've deduced that from the fact that fetishes always appear to be focussed on non-genital body parts and/or material, non-living objects (i.e. female undergarments, high-heels etc...) that there may very well be a lack in experiencing sexual arousal from a natural, spiritual, non-materialistic way.

Is this merely a product of modern humans who are lacking in a spiritual outlook on life? Very hard to say...

If what you say is true, truly spiritual people must then not have fetishes? I wonder if there's any stats or anecdotes that can support this?

Hello DeDukshyn/drgrieg
Spirituality has nothing to do with anything other than Self Realization.
So in theory the "bad guys"
...
Chris

So your indicating that people with fetishes are the "bad guys"?

I'm just having fun with "label play", but there is a point to be made about humans seeming to need/desire to classify things along a 'good/bad', 'spiritual/secular' scale as a way of some form of validation.
And I know you are acutely aware of this fallacy Chris, hence your appropriate use of quotes around "bad", and well, the rest of your post that explains it delicately.

Just playing a bit of devil's advocate, as I often do.

[greybeard]

Ha "Bad Guys" are in " which changes the meaning, its like tongue in cheek.
I like playing with words. Scottish use of English takes poetic liberties.
There are no bad guys as such--- as long as they dont take liberties with me or mine--smiling

Ch

[Olam]

Could it be a cultural phenomenon?
If I am not mistaken, fetishes are not taboo and generally accepted socially, or at least seen as one sexual option by the masses even if you don't participate or agree with the particular event.
Its as if , under the cover of it being a fetish, humans are free to explore the fringes of sexual expressions in a safe way.
I don't even know if I myself have one..!
Is having a penchant for dark haired women versus blondes considered a fetish?

:-)