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Thread: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)

    I read somewhere that (Hall Putoff thread) that US/Russia are preparing for a war. This is nut, completely nut. When will we lead for peace? for compassion? And stop the wars.

    You know, I personally think that lots of the illegal immigration problem in Europe and the USA is karma.

    A return of the damage we have done to these people with relentless wars, pillaging their resources, supporting or creating their dictatorships, supporting or creating their drugs cartels, and more. All this while being passive in our values and letting the mad men direct us for the last 100 years. Karma man!!

    If the way of thinking and the lack of compassion goes on, for the US citizen as well as for the foreigners, karma will keep piling up.

    (Soros the angel of Karma, this is a weird thought )
    I do feel the karma to speak of. I named my daughter Karma.

    I'm firstly focussed on the viability of the human race, as a human race with all the aspects we've glimpsed and confirmed are doable if we get it right.

    Karma, I'm at a loss to account for, in that schema of things I'm concerned about.

    If we really have screwed ourselves with extinction level bad karma, can we at least choose our next of kin, and give the future generations the best we can give them, instead of a looted and hopelessly missunderstood ( and lost ) knowledge ?
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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    The BBC said the reason the caravan refused asylum in Mexico is because it was not a real offer. They were restricted to the two southern regions of Mexico and 80% would likely have been sent back and not offered asylum. Plus they complained that the wages are no higher than where they came from, which sounds opportunistic on their part.

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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    The BBC said the reason the caravan refused asylum in Mexico is because it was not a real offer. They were restricted to the two southern regions of Mexico and 80% would likely have been sent back and not offered asylum. Plus they complained that the wages are no higher than where they came from, which sounds opportunistic on their part.
    So, many did have jobs, apparently. They want to make more money, is that it? I would love to hear one reporter ask them this simple question: Exactly what were you told would happen once you got to the US? This thing is clearly "sponsored". Too bad those that would manipulate these people didn't offer to build up the communities where these folks originate from. I wonder how much they spent coming up with and planning this?

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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    Perhaps Alex Jones knows a thing or two if he's inferring the Soros family is involved with this caravan of migrants. After all, it has been widely reported that Soros was behind the mass migration of Middle East refugees to Europe. Soros's game plan is the destruction of national borders everywhere, so in light of this, it's pretty easy to connect the dots and assert that he would be involved in using the same tactics in North America.

    "Soros admits involvement in migrant crisis" - https://www.breitbart.com/europe/201...-the-obstacle/

    "Unmasked: The Mastermind behind the Mass Invasion of Europe and His Plan in 8 Steps" - https://new.euro-med.dk/20151106-unm...in-8-steps.php

    "How George Soros Singlehandedly Created The European Refugee Crisis - And Why" - https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-08/how-george-soros-singlehandedly-created-european-refugee-crisis-and-why
    Our destiny is in our hands. Let us visualise a world of truth, freedom and equality.

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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    I don't know who this guy is, but he seems to have a decent grasp of the Soros phenomenon.

    https://youtu.be/UjlWqbLT3gI?t=576
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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    Ok I found out who the guy is. He's Lee Stranahan. The guy he's countering is:

    This Guy, Scott Adams:

    This video will start where he starts to talk about George Soros.
    https://youtu.be/hzpPqG3dJ78?t=1785



    - or -

    The whole thing (he says a lot of interesting stuff)



    He's a pretty cool talker.

    He goes through a few bullet points of subjects and asks smart questions.
    Last edited by norman; 1st November 2018 at 20:46.
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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    Border Forces Train For Arrival of Migrant Caravan – As MSM Calls It ‘Imaginary’

    Local media reports border security training to take on caravan – while CNN says nothing to see here!

    Adan Salazar | Infowars.com - November 1, 2018

    Quote Local and federal law enforcement are reportedly teaming up to strengthen border security in Texas southmost regions, where the caravan has been predicted to arrive.
    https://www.infowars.com/border-forc...-it-imaginary/
    Last edited by norman; 2nd November 2018 at 00:20.
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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    Inside Judicial Watch: What the Mainstream Media WON'T Tell You About The Migrant Caravan Crisis


    Judicial Watch
    Streamed live on 1 Nov 2018

    In this episode of "Inside Judicial Watch," JW Director of Investigations & Research Chris Farrell discusses his recent trip to Central America investigating the migrant caravan heading to the United States--and what the mainstream media is not telling you about it.
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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    President Trump Migrant Caravan New Policy Press Briefing Border Security Speech


    Space Force News
    Published on 1 Nov 2018
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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    Quote Posted by Deux Corbeaux (here)
    I’ve visited the US many times and I will never get used to the poverty I’ve seen there, unknown for west Europeans.
    I’ve also experienced the rich, but you over there would probably call them the upper middle class.
    Sounds like you hit up the big cities just like virtually every other tourist who comes here. In other words, you went to exactly the places that I have no interest in ever seeing in my entire life, and I live here.

    Those places happen to be run exclusively by Democrats, so whatever you see there, you can chalk up to the American equivalent of what was behind the Iron Curtain during the Cold War. They're all communists masquerading under the names of "democracy" and "socialism." And yes, they have tremendous poverty, and tremendous wealth. They gut the middle class just as Marxism doesn't leave any room for a middle class, and I've seen leftists in other countries even have open disdain for the very idea of a middle class.

    Quote The US has got great nature and is a beautiful place to live, but only for the ones that don’t have money problems
    If you leave the aforementioned hellholes, aka colossal blue smears of urban ghettos, you actually stand a fair shot at getting a decent job and earning a living for yourself. Ie, the American Dream.

    Quote But I must admit that privatisation and bad border control is putting us under pressure and is making us poorer.
    The solution to privatization is letting government politicians and bureaucrats manage things, right?

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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Quote Posted by Deux Corbeaux (here)
    I’ve visited the US many times and I will never get used to the poverty I’ve seen there, unknown for west Europeans.
    I’ve also experienced the rich, but you over there would probably call them the upper middle class.
    Sounds like you hit up the big cities just like virtually every other tourist who comes here. In other words, you went to exactly the places that I have no interest in ever seeing in my entire life, and I live here.

    Those places happen to be run exclusively by Democrats, so whatever you see there, you can chalk up to the American equivalent of what was behind the Iron Curtain during the Cold War. They're all communists masquerading under the names of "democracy" and "socialism." And yes, they have tremendous poverty, and tremendous wealth. They gut the middle class just as Marxism doesn't leave any room for a middle class, and I've seen leftists in other countries even have open disdain for the very idea of a middle class.

    Quote The US has got great nature and is a beautiful place to live, but only for the ones that don’t have money problems
    If you leave the aforementioned hellholes, aka colossal blue smears of urban ghettos, you actually stand a fair shot at getting a decent job and earning a living for yourself. Ie, the American Dream.

    Quote But I must admit that privatisation and bad border control is putting us under pressure and is making us poorer.
    The solution to privatization is letting government politicians and bureaucrats manage things, right?
    Dear Voice, your assumptions really made me smile . However, it's your reality. I don´t mind.

    I hope you will be able to avoid living in the ´blue smears of urban ghettos´, or trailer parks for the less fortunate, ´blue and red´.....

    But above all, I hope you will be able to live the American Dream, whatever that may be.

    Stay healthy and be strong for the years to come.

    I wish you well.

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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    Quote Posted by Deux Corbeaux (here)
    Dear Voice, your assumptions really made me smile . However, it's your reality. I don´t mind.
    We can talk economic statistics if you want.

    I live in a deeply rural area -- we have no homeless rambling around.

    Have you ever seen downtown Los Angeles?

    Why don't you throw in a foreign country for comparison too, and we can make this even more interesting. UK perhaps? Canada? France? All of them have lower GDP per capita than the US.








    Even living in a trailer park would be an improvement over this level of absolute filth.

    All run exclusively by Democrats.


    By the way, have you seen Paris lately?







    What a beautiful city. Can you tell me what progressive policies you have implemented to reach such levels of civilization?


    Personal anecdotes are worthless. Talk numbers.
    Last edited by A Voice from the Mountains; 6th November 2018 at 20:28.

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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    Ami Horowitz Goes To Mexico To Learn 'The Truth Behind The Caravan'

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/38293...ign=benshapiro

    We've been hearing all kinds of contradictory stories about the massive migrant caravan steadily making its way north across Mexico to the U.S. border, but what's it really like on the ground? Is it a group of desperate families who've spontaneously banded together to try to find a better life? Or is it something less noble and more orchestrated, as some reports suggest.

    Conservative filmmaker Ami Horowitz decided to see for himself and brought his camera crew so others could get a glimpse at "the truth behind the caravan."

    "The caravan is a giant group of people that emanated, for the most part, in Honduras and are heading up to the U.S.," Horowitz explains. "A lot has been said about this caravan, so I decided to go down, check it out for myself, and figure out what is the reality versus the fiction."

    Horowitz took his crew down to the base camp for the caravan in the southern state of Oaxaca, which he describes as "an area of Mexico which is riddled with narco-crime and cursed with extreme poverty."

    "Despite the framing of the caravan as being full of women and children, the reality on the ground is quite different. Approximately 90 to 95% of the migrants are male," notes Horowitz, over footage of rows and rows of men.

    "The major narrative being pushed by the press is that the migrants are leaving Honduras because they are escaping extreme violence and that their lives are under constant threat, setting up the strategy that they will be able to enter the U.S. by asking for asylum," "he says. "So I started by asking them a simple question: Why are you coming to America?"

    The answers he gets don't appear to align with the "extreme violence" claims. "Well, I'm looking for a better life — economic," says one male migrant. "I wish to get there and work there," another male migrant says. "Because in Honduras there are no jobs," says another. "We are looking for a better life, because we don't have jobs," another man agrees.

    Most of the other migrants Horowitz features answer something similar: "For jobs," "To work." Some of the migrants cite education. "Because I want to finish my studies there," says one young man.

    As for the "spontaneity" of the caravan, Horowitz demonstrates that it's anything but spontaneous: "There's a massive logistical effort underway, akin to moving an army," he explains, over footage of all of the manpower and resources required to keep the caravan operational. "And it's clearly costing someone millions of dollars for transportation, food, water, medicine and services that are being provided for members of the caravan."

    "It's a supply chain that's being delivered by an army of trucks, which are all necessary to keep this enormous group moving forward," he continues over video of trucks filled with supplies and transport vehicles crammed with migrant men.

    Along with the Mexican government, which is helping to escort the caravan, and the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, which is supporting the caravan's efforts, are "ever-present" members of a group called Pueblo Sin Fronteras, or "People Without Borders," a self-described "immigration rights group" that is supporting and directing the caravan toward its final destination.

    "They're the ones that seem to be most involved in organizing and mobilizing this caravan," says Horowitz. "The organization, as the name implies, is looking to create a world without borders, which seems to be one of the reasons why they organized this caravan in the first place, to flout American sovereignty."

    WATCH


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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    General Mattis 14 November 2018
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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    Rural vs Urban Poverty

    I looked up stats on rural vs. urban poverty levels in the United States.
    From the United states Census:
    https://www.census.gov/library/stori...l-america.html

    Households in rural areas have lower incomes than those in urban areas but they are less likely to live in poverty than their urban counterparts.

    According to the 2015 American Community Survey, median household income for rural households was $52,386, about 4 percent lower than the median for urban households.

    But the percentage of people living below the official poverty threshold was 13.3 percent, almost three points lower than the 16 percent in urban areas. Also, income inequality, as measured by the Gini index, was lower for rural households than urban households. The Gini Index measures income inequality. The index varies from 0 to 1, with a 0 indicating perfect equality, where there is a proportional distribution of income. A Gini index of 1 indicates perfect inequality, where one household has all the income.


    So there is a little less than three percent difference in poverty rates according to the census bureau. With that being said I can tell you that people that require state funded services tend to move to where they can access them, just as people tend to move to cities to look for work as there is at least the belief that there is more opportunity there. There are more minorities in cities, including LGBT people, percentage wise, not because fewer people are born gay in rural settings but because they have more supports in the cities and tend to move there to draw strength from like minded communities.

    I live in region just west of Toronto with a population of approximately 500, 000. I live in Kitchener, but our twin city Waterloo shares the same main street and you can not tell when you are in one city or the other for the most part. Kitchener has quite a few homeless people in its downtown, Waterloo has virtually none. Why? because Kitchener has several homeless shelters, soup kitchens and food banks in the downtown. If you are homeless in Waterloo you quickly learn that you need to move up the street a few kilometres if you want to eat regularly.

    It is faulty logic that looks at the tent cities in large metropolitan areas and thinks that they are there because cities are run by democrats or that those people were born in the city they are homeless in. The US like many western nations has had decades of growing inequality between the wealthiest and the poorest of its citizens. The vast majority of people don't want to live like that, but mental health, addictions, and dwindling education and job opportunities put them there.
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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    Good info, Bruno, and well said. Homelessness is an ongoing problem everywhere, and increasingly so in Canada. Historically, the poor have always headed for larger population centres. One of the biggest problems is the decreasing availability of shelter as more and more of the city cores get bought out by developers and offshore investors. There's little left downtown for the poor.

    Brian
    A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest—a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

    Albert E.

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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    Quote Posted by Bubu (here)
    Quote Posted by peterpam (here)

    Describe to me if you will, how the world will really work once you just knock down those borders? Like I said ideologically that sounds well and good, but what about reality?

    I don't mean to sound like a wet blanket, but one thing I have learned over the years is you work with what you have, you start from where you are, not where you think you'd like to be.
    did I say just knock down the borders?

    "Mixture of cultures can be nasty at first but with the proper guides and guidance (the ones in power just right off will certainly take advantage of it.) Maybe the new era will usher us into a new common good culture. Dissolve borders and dissolve cultures make way for a better one... when we are ready"

    There is a right and wrong way to do the right things
    Who decides the right and wrong way?

    What you're describing treads very closely to fascism.
    cordibus nostris non quiesceret donec requiescat in te

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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    I don't have any problem with immigration, and do have empathy for the poor. What I have a problem with is that there are established ways to apply for citizenship. You don't need to storm the borders in large numbers. In no way should that be tolerated. Also, poor is a relative word. What kind of poor? Are these people hungry and homeless or do they want more of the materialistic life of excess promoted in media and movies? Does anyone here really know the actual circumstances that these people left?

    A couple of years ago, I flew to Toronto. I'd spent my life living in a very small city in western Canada, and this was an adventure for me. I got off the plane, navigated Pearson, took the train to Union Station, and walked through downtown Toronto at rush hour. I walked down Bay Street, and watched as the city emptied onto the streets. So many people! So many sounds, colours, so many different people!

    I was taking pictures of every building I saw. I know everyone in a suit knew I was a tourist and I didn't care! I walked about an hour through the city to Cabbage Town to the convent I was staying at.

    Something that I saw, and was really aware of, was the vast discrepancy between those who were very rich, and those who were on the streets, hiding behind dumpsters and peeking down alleys, people sleeping under benches in pocket parks, people sleeping in doorways, people with addictions, people who were sober, people who had Jesus, people who cursed God.

    The other thing I noticed is how every person I saw walked past, didn't look, ignored. Thousands of people walked by a woman who was in tears, visibly hungry (and starving), reaching out her hand.

    But what really stuck with me was the day of the Pride Parade. A million people on the streets just watching this thing, and I must say: this was probably the most significant time in my life that I felt part of the Queer Tribe, felt proud of my culture, felt proud of what we as a community had achieved. I was standing against a building in a line that was three-four people deep. A space about two feet ran between there crowd against the building and the crowd on the street, and the path on the sidewalk between allowed for a steady stream of people to move in two way traffic from. From one direction, a homeless man who only had a pair of pants to his name was smiling, toothless, dancing, full of life and joy. From the other direction, a 20 something with expensive clothes, well groomed, saw him approaching. He covered his face, and turned the other way.

    I ask you: who was the poor man that day?

    People who say that poor is relative are coming from a position of privilege: they are able to differentiate because it allows them to remain comfortable without having to actually face the poverty they're trying to avoid.

    There's a plaque on the Statue of Liberty that people forget exists. And it's ironic when you think about the fact that once upon a time, the Statue of Liberty greeted immigrants to the United States. Now, Liberty has turned her back on the country she was once a beacon to.

    Before we who are easily able to define poverty become too haughty, too protected, too distanced from what poverty really is, we need to remember that we are confronted with an image of who we really are when we face someone in poverty. We're confronted with an opportunity to extend ourselves beyond our protective definitions, and challenged to embrace the human being in front of us, the person who is a *unique creation* in this universe, a treasure, something that should be celebrated.

    It's an illusion to think that we're reaching down to help someone up. We're reaching up to stand equally with those who are above us. The people who approach the border are providing a unique opportunity for the culture they approach to redefine itself, to return to the values that made it great: openness, compassion, welcoming.

    Fear is protecting you from seeing how distanced you are from what would make you truly human.
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    Avalon Member Flash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    Quote Posted by hermit (here)
    I don't have any problem with immigration, and do have empathy for the poor. What I have a problem with is that there are established ways to apply for citizenship. You don't need to storm the borders in large numbers. In no way should that be tolerated. Also, poor is a relative word. What kind of poor? Are these people hungry and homeless or do they want more of the materialistic life of excess promoted in media and movies? Does anyone here really know the actual circumstances that these people left?

    A couple of years ago, I flew to Toronto. I'd spent my life living in a very small city in western Canada, and this was an adventure for me. I got off the plane, navigated Pearson, took the train to Union Station, and walked through downtown Toronto at rush hour. I walked down Bay Street, and watched as the city emptied onto the streets. So many people! So many sounds, colours, so many different people!

    I was taking pictures of every building I saw. I know everyone in a suit knew I was a tourist and I didn't care! I walked about an hour through the city to Cabbage Town to the convent I was staying at.

    Something that I saw, and was really aware of, was the vast discrepancy between those who were very rich, and those who were on the streets, hiding behind dumpsters and peeking down alleys, people sleeping under benches in pocket parks, people sleeping in doorways, people with addictions, people who were sober, people who had Jesus, people who cursed God.

    The other thing I noticed is how every person I saw walked past, didn't look, ignored. Thousands of people walked by a woman who was in tears, visibly hungry (and starving), reaching out her hand.

    But what really stuck with me was the day of the Pride Parade. A million people on the streets just watching this thing, and I must say: this was probably the most significant time in my life that I felt part of the Queer Tribe, felt proud of my culture, felt proud of what we as a community had achieved. I was standing against a building in a line that was three-four people deep. A space about two feet ran between there crowd against the building and the crowd on the street, and the path on the sidewalk between allowed for a steady stream of people to move in two way traffic from. From one direction, a homeless man who only had a pair of pants to his name was smiling, toothless, dancing, full of life and joy. From the other direction, a 20 something with expensive clothes, well groomed, saw him approaching. He covered his face, and turned the other way.

    I ask you: who was the poor man that day?

    People who say that poor is relative are coming from a position of privilege: they are able to differentiate because it allows them to remain comfortable without having to actually face the poverty they're trying to avoid.

    There's a plaque on the Statue of Liberty that people forget exists. And it's ironic when you think about the fact that once upon a time, the Statue of Liberty greeted immigrants to the United States. Now, Liberty has turned her back on the country she was once a beacon to.

    Before we who are easily able to define poverty become too haughty, too protected, too distanced from what poverty really is, we need to remember that we are confronted with an image of who we really are when we face someone in poverty. We're confronted with an opportunity to extend ourselves beyond our protective definitions, and challenged to embrace the human being in front of us, the person who is a *unique creation* in this universe, a treasure, something that should be celebrated.

    It's an illusion to think that we're reaching down to help someone up. We're reaching up to stand equally with those who are above us. The people who approach the border are providing a unique opportunity for the culture they approach to redefine itself, to return to the values that made it great: openness, compassion, welcoming.

    Fear is protecting you from seeing how distanced you are from what would make you truly human.
    I pretty much like what you are saying.

    There is about 6 to 10,000 potential immigrants in that caravan. Nothing compared to the millions in Europe. Don't tell me that the USA is not able to handle 20,000 strong caravan easily, this is ludicrous. Of course, they can, and without violence.

    By handling I do not mean getting them in, I mean doing due process at a fast speed.

    This is created hatred towards other people, many starving without a dim hope of a better future if they stay put in their country.

    Help the real, without corruption, improvement of their country and they will stay put, and.. it will be altogether less expensive. Instead, they have CIA sponsored drug cartels, bombs and imposed governments take over backed by the USA, well, this is karma, they are now wanting to come in because of despair.
    How to let the desire of your mind become the desire of your heart - Gurdjieff

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  36. Link to Post #100
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    Default Re: Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

    Hermit, I agreed with your post except for the part about fear. We need to have Rule of Law for all; not just for American citizens. There are many thousands of illegal immigrants here who are draining our system. It's hard for many of us poor people to nod our heads to giving free services to people when we cannot get the same help for ourselves.

    If they don't have to follow the law, then why do we? Why should we?
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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