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Thread: Boeing Mega Troubles with its 737 MAX 8 Overriding Nose Dive Crashes

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    Exclamation Re: Boeing Mega Troubles with its 737 MAX 8 Overriding Nose Dive Crashes

    Boeing 737 MAX Crashes Immediately After Takeoff | Here's What Really Happened to Flight 610

    The real reason Boeing's new plane crashed twice:

    Will the MAX fly again?!
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 11th January 2020 at 00:45.
    No need to follow anyone, only consider broadening (y)our horizon of possibilities ...

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    Default Re: Boeing Mega Troubles with its 737 MAX 8 Overriding Nose Dive Crashes

    From https://reuters.com/article/us-boein...-idUSKBN20C2RW

    Boeing finds debris in 737 MAX jetliners' fuel tanks: company memo
    18 Feb, 2020

    Boeing found debris that could pose potential safety risks in the fuel tanks of several 737 MAX aircraft that are in storage and waiting to be delivered to airlines, according to an internal memo seen by Reuters on Tuesday.

    Foreign object debris, an industrial term for rags, tools, metal shavings and other materials left behind by workers during the production process, has been a quality control issue for various Boeing aircraft, such as its KC-46 tankers.

    Mark Jenks, general manager of the 737 program, told employees in the memo that such debris was “absolutely unacceptable” and that the company was taking steps to address the issue in its production system.

    A Boeing spokesman confirmed the memo’s authenticity, and said Boeing does not see the debris as contributing to delays in the jet’s return to service.

    The objects were found during maintenance work on some of the hundreds of 737 MAX jetliners Boeing has built but not delivered due to a worldwide ban imposed last March following two crashes that killed 346 people, he said.

    The FAA did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

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    Default Re: Boeing Mega Troubles with its 737 MAX 8 Overriding Nose Dive Crashes

    According to the Zerohedge article below, foreign object debris issue in the 737 Max jets are more widespread than initially reported. Boeing has a serious systemic quality control issue in building these jets lately.

    There is an error in the first link ("internal Boeing memo") of the referenced article that points to the article itself rather than going to the memo. Here is an excerpt from an earlier Boeing internal memo reported by a recent LA Times article:
    “This airplane is designed by clowns, who in turn are supervised by monkeys,” one company pilot said in messages to a colleague in 2016. The company provided the documents in December to lawmakers and the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration, who are investigating the 737 Max and the process that cleared it to fly.
    Half Of Undelivered 737 MAX Jets Inspected Have 'Debris' Found In Fuel Tanks

    by Tyler Durden
    Sat, 02/22/2020 - 10:35

    Update (Feb 22): Last week an internal Boeing memo detailed how inspectors found debris in the fuel tanks of several 737 MAX aircraft that are sitting in storage and waiting to be delivered to airlines. Updated reports now show the problem is much more widespread than previously thought.

    Reuters notes that 35 MAX planes had foreign-object debris (FOD) in the fuel tanks. A Boeing spokesman confirmed this on Friday:

    Quote "We are taking steps to make sure we eliminate FOD from any and all aircraft. This is unacceptable and won't be tolerated on any Boeing aircraft when it's delivered to the customer," Boeing said in an emailed statement.
    A source told Reuters that at least 50% of undelivered MAX jets inspected have FOD in them.



    Industry officials told The Wall Street Journal that the scale of the problem is widespread. They said Boeing had inspected 50 of the 400 MAX planes waiting for delivery once ungrounding occurs, indicating that some jets had rags, boot coverings, tools, and other debris in the fuel tanks.

    The FOD problem on the MAX was first reported Tuesday on Scott Hamilton's Leeham.net aviation site:

    Quote "There's a systemic issue with Boeing's quality control that hasn't been corralled yet," said Hamilton in an interview.

    "This is not related to the MAX crashes or exclusively a MAX issue. Boeing has these FOD issues on other airplane programs."
    Compound the FOD issue with a string of setbacks stretching almost one year since the grounding of the aircraft, and it has just been one disaster after another for Boeing.

    On Friday, a new twist in the Boeing saga developed when NYT reported that federal prosecutors were examining whether or not the aerospace company knowingly misled the FAA while seeking approval for the 737 Max.

    Prosecutors have questioned several Boeing employees in front of a federal grand jury whether a top Boeing pilot, Mark Forkner, lied to the FAA about the capabilities of the then-new MCAS airplane software.

    Airlines have been aware of the new setbacks and pushed out MAX return to service dates out to late summer and or even fall.

    Southwest said it is extending its MAX flight cancellations through August 20, the largest US airline (by available seat miles) United Airlines, also said it was pulling the MAX from its schedule until September 4.

    New setbacks could push the grounding out even further. The impacts on the US economy are tremendous.

    * * *

    With airline after airline pushing back their 'return-to-service' dates based on Boeing's total lack of clarity on the path forward for the 737 MAX, the troubled aircraft maker (and the troubled aircraft) now faces more problems.

    According to an internal memo, seen by Reuters, Boeing found debris that could pose potential safety risks in the fuel tanks of several 737 MAX aircraft that are in storage and waiting to be delivered to airlines.

    To be clear about what 'debris' means, Reuters details that:

    Quote "an industrial term for rags, tools, metal shavings and other materials left behind by workers during the production process."
    And notes that this 'debris' problem has been a quality control issue for various Boeing aircraft, such as its KC-46 tankers.

    Quote Foreign-object debris (FOD) “is absolutely unacceptable. One escape is one too many,” Mark Jenks, a Boeing vice president and general manager of the 737 program, said in a message to employees that was viewed by Reuters.

    With your help and focus, we will eliminate FOD from our production system,”

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    Default Re: Boeing Mega Troubles with its 737 MAX 8 Overriding Nose Dive Crashes

    A strong thought just struck me — and I've not yet seen anything written about this. (Anyone who may be sifficiently interested, please do find any articles you know about concerning this.)

    Boeing was already in deep trouble after the 737 MAX fiasco. With the current ongoing massacre of the airline and travel industry, everyone surely has to be canceling their Boeing 737 orders. And for every other Boeing, too.

    So if I was a market analyst, I'd be predicting Boeing hitting very serious financial trouble in a few short months from now.

    The outcome? A US government bailout, for sure, as Boeing is also a key defense contractor. (Assuming the two businesses aren't financially firewalled from each other.)

    For many reading this, this may be very minor and irrelevant. But this did strike me quite clearly, so I merely wanted to note it down.

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    Default Re: Boeing Mega Troubles with its 737 MAX 8 Overriding Nose Dive Crashes


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    Default Re: Boeing Mega Troubles with its 737 MAX 8 Overriding Nose Dive Crashes

    Should be allowed to go under, if only boeing wasn't a part of the military industrial complex... I'm tired of this "austerity for the many, socialism for the rich".

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  13. Link to Post #47
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    Default Re: Boeing Mega Troubles with its 737 MAX 8 Overriding Nose Dive Crashes

    The Boeing 737 MAX is still in trouble. Here's an update from The Moon of Alabama:
    Boeing's 737 MAX is still a Mess

    I haven't written about the engineering and business mess of Boeing for a while.

    After the 2019 737 Max failures that downed two airplanes and killed all inside, the company promised to change its culture. But it has since seen several production stops for quality and flight security issues on several of its manufacturing lines. There are still undelivered 737 MAX and 787 planes mothballed on various airports around Seattle.
    And now comes this:
    Pete Muntean @petemuntean - 4:20 UTC · Jan 6, 2024 NEW IMAGE from on board Alaska Airlines 1282 after ***part of the fuselage*** blew out mid-flight. Successful emergency return to Portland after 20 minutes in the air. 10-week-old (!) Boeing 737 Max 9. NTSB investigating.

    bigger

    There is video from inside the plane as it was landing. Oxygen masks had been deployed when the plane depressurized. The women filming says that there was thankfully no one seated next to where the hull was breached. If there had been that person would likely have died.
    R A W S A L E R T S @rawsalerts - 3:35 UTC · Jan 6, 2024 🚨#BREAKING: Alaska Airlines Forced to Make an Emergency Landing After Large Aircraft Window Blows Out Mid-Air
    A forced emergency landing was made of Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 at Portland International Airport on Friday night. The flight, traveling from Portland to Ontario, California, faced severe depressurization, causing the ejection of a large window section and an unoccupied seat. This incident resulted in a child's shirt being ripped off. The Boeing 737-900/-9MAX aircraft reached a maximum altitude of 16,300 ft before safely returning to Portland International Airport. As of now, it remains unclear if anyone on board the flight was injured, as this story is still developing.
    It was not just the emergency exit door that was ripped out. (Such window emergency doors only open towards the inside of the plane.) The whole section around the emergency exit door departed.

    I have since learned that this was indeed the place of a special emergency exit that, when installed, opens to the outside. This is 'plugged' on lower density planes that do not need it.

    That points to a serious manufacturing issue at the hull builder that had not been caught by quality control.

    All passengers and the crew survived and the plane landed safely. Alaska Air has grounded its 65 strong fleet of 737 MAX 9. Other airlines should follow.

    The Seattle Times has the details:
    The neat rectangular hole that appeared in the fuselage was located at the position where Boeing fits a plug to seal a door opening that is not used as a door by most airlines and by no U.S. carriers. An emergency exit door is installed in that location only for jets going to low-cost carriers like Ryanair who cram in additional seats that require an extra emergency exit. Otherwise, the hole is sealed with a plug and from the inside it is covered by a sidewall so that to a passenger it looks like a normal window, not a door opening.
    This plug, halfway between the over-wing exit and the door at the rear of the plane, is present only on the largest versions of the 737.
    It’s fitted on the previous generation 737-900ER and the same design is on the 737 MAX 8-200, the high density version for low-cost carriers, as well as the MAX 9 and MAX 10.
    It is not present on the MAX 7 or MAX 8.
    "Well, the plug got pulled ..."

    Just last week we also got this:
    Boeing instructed customer airlines to inspect their 737 Max jets for loose bolts, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) announced Thursday. The request comes after the manufacturer discovered two aircraft with missing bolts in the rudder control system, raising concerns about faults across all aircraft.
    “The issue identified on the particular airplane has been remedied,” Boeing told CNN in a statement. “Out of an abundance of caution, we are recommending operators inspect their 737 Max airplanes and inform us of any findings.”
    Yesterday the Seattle Times also reported:

    Boeing wants FAA to exempt MAX 7 from safety rules to get it in the air
    Little noticed, the Federal Aviation Administration in December published a Boeing request for an exemption from key safety standards on the 737 MAX 7 — the still-uncertified smallest member of Boeing’s newest jet family. Since August, earlier models of the MAX currently flying passengers in the U.S. have had to limit use of the jet’s engine anti-ice system after Boeing discovered a defect in the system with potentially catastrophic consequences.
    The flaw could cause the inlet at the front end of the pod surrounding the engine — known as a nacelle — to break and fall off.
    In an August Airworthiness Directive, the FAA stated that debris from such a breakup could penetrate the fuselage, putting passengers seated at windows behind the wings in danger, and could damage the wing or tail of the plane, “which could result in loss of control of the airplane.”
    ...
    One hopes that the FAA and Congress will finally get serious with Boeing. They must stop giving it all those lazy exceptions for issues that better (but more expensive) engineering can easily solve.

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    Default Re: Boeing Mega Troubles with its 737 MAX 8 Overriding Nose Dive Crashes

    Another incident.
    "Plane Was Nosediving": United Airlines Boeing 737 Engine Erupts in Flames over Texas

    Dramatic footage shared on social media platform X shows the moment a United Airlines' Boeing 737 from Houston to Fort Myers had to declare an emergency just minutes into its flight after flames erupted from one of its engines.

    https://twitter.com/MarioNawfal/stat...88407919919408


    "I remember there was just this bright, flashing light that came through the window, and it sounded like a bomb went off, and then it was just a strobe of fire out the window," David Gruninger, who was on his way back to Florida on a connecting flight, told local media outlet ABC 13.

    According to the flight tracking website FlightAware, Flight 1118, with 167 passengers on board, took off from George Bush Intercontinental Airport at 6:40 pm local time. Just minutes after takeoff, the plane returned to the airport because of the engine issue.

    "The plane was nosediving, and the pilot was bringing the plane back up," passenger Elliot Trexler said, adding, "The plane was also rocking back and forth a lot."

    "And then it just turned into chaos. People were screaming and crying and trying to figure out what was going on," Gruninger said.

    Radio transmission from the pilots described "our left engine, our number one engine," experienced an issue while climbing through about 10,000 feet.

    The plane trip from hell lasted about 33 minutes after takeoff. Pilots landed safely around 7:31 local time—United credited passengers with $200 and a $15 meal voucher.

    This adds to the incompetency crisis plaguing Boeing jets following the door plug that ripped off an Alaska Flight 1282 Boeing 737 Max 9 plane earlier this year. The Federal Aviation Administration's audit of the incident revealed that Boeing and Spirit AeroSystems have "failed to comply with manufacturing quality control requirements."

    "The incompetency crisis continues as diversifying the flight industry moves full speed ahead," one X user said.

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    Default Re: Boeing Mega Troubles with its 737 MAX 8 Overriding Nose Dive Crashes

    Boeing's troubles — apparently far more serious and dramatic than anyone knew — are quickly becoming widely discussed. Here's Redacted (Natali and Clayton Morris) with their own new report.

    He was EXPOSING Boeing and then he wound up DEAD


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    Default Re: Boeing Mega Troubles with its 737 MAX 8 Overriding Nose Dive Crashes

    I worked in a quality assurance/quality control position many years ago. Quality assurance whether it is in software or hardware is a part of the company that is often not liked as they are responsible for setting back the schedules due to the problems that they sometimes (or more often) find.

    As a result the cost of quality control and/or inspections goes up because they are brought back to redo their work.

    This is OK when the economy and the company are doing well and overall profit margins are good. But one of the first things to often receive cuts is in the quality control inspection departments. This is often seen as a good move as it can drastically bring down costs and see projects completed more on time.

    But it is the consumer that is then testing the product for the company. In software, a company will just release new versions to be uploaded online. But a product like a coffee maker will be returned to the store. Unfortunately aircraft find out they have problems in the air.

    We are also seeing this with the electric vehicles. The consumer is finding the problems for the company.

    Every airline manufacturer should be paying attention to the issues seen at Boeing and review where they have recently been cutting costs.

    I bet many people have seen lower quality products these days across the board. Some things just cause frustration but many things can cause major damage and lives.

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    Default Re: Boeing Mega Troubles with its 737 MAX 8 Overriding Nose Dive Crashes

    Quote Posted by Patient (here)
    I worked in a quality assurance/quality control position many years ago. Quality assurance whether it is in software or hardware is a part of the company that is often not liked as they are responsible for setting back the schedules due to the problems that they sometimes (or more often) find.

    As a result the cost of quality control and/or inspections goes up because they are brought back to redo their work.

    This is OK when the economy and the company are doing well and overall profit margins are good. But one of the first things to often receive cuts is in the quality control inspection departments. This is often seen as a good move as it can drastically bring down costs and see projects completed more on time.

    But it is the consumer that is then testing the product for the company. In software, a company will just release new versions to be uploaded online. But a product like a coffee maker will be returned to the store. Unfortunately aircraft find out they have problems in the air.

    We are also seeing this with the electric vehicles. The consumer is finding the problems for the company.

    Every airline manufacturer should be paying attention to the issues seen at Boeing and review where they have recently been cutting costs.

    I bet many people have seen lower quality products these days across the board. Some things just cause frustration but many things can cause major damage and lives.
    Your view of this reminds me of something I read about QA, that it can be fiscally irresponsible to not shoot for an ideal percentage of failed products. In the balance of production costs, to making purchasers of the product ‘whole’ if it fails, the best involves some calculable and desirable fail rate.

    Bad idea for some industries, like making airplanes, but bean counting seems to have a blind spot for that.

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    Default Re: Boeing Mega Troubles with its 737 MAX 8 Overriding Nose Dive Crashes

    copying here

    Quote Posted by mountain_jim (here)
    https://x.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1...184062769?s=20

    I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. - Robert Anton Wilson

    The present as you think of it, and in practical working terms, is that point at which you select your physical experience from all those events that could be materialized. - Seth (The Nature of Personal Reality - Session 656, Page 293)

    (avatar image: Brocken spectre, a wonderful phenomenon of nature I have experienced and a symbol for my aspirations.)

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    Default Re: Boeing Mega Troubles with its 737 MAX 8 Overriding Nose Dive Crashes

    In the 80s already it was clear for all serious executives and all serious management consultants that Quality Control or Quality Assurance was not the way to go, but Total Quality Management was. Japanese companies tended to be run that way, and soon enough German companies as well. (Incidentally: as soon as they became threats to the US business hegemony, forerunners of the Northstream sabotage were put into action.)

    The more quality control you have, the more quality defects you will have – because production management and quality management depend on each other for their existence, so the voice of wisdom knew. If however you ensure a Total Quality management strategy, you render production departments responsible for their quality, and quality “control” is no longer necessary.

    Total Quality involves the establishment of exhaustive specifications for all elements and aspects of a product or service according to fixed tolerances.

    Failures as the ones described betray a management failure of the manufacturer to implement aTotal Quality strategy.

    But also on the purchasing side. There is such a thing as Total Acquisition Quality.

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    Default Re: Boeing Mega Troubles with its 737 MAX 8 Overriding Nose Dive Crashes

    Boeing bought out McDonnell Douglas after MD had the same cargo door problems that became disasters. In the initial testing, in 1968, MD testing engineers predicted "catastrophic results", due to rapid decompression after the cargo hold area door in testing was blown out and away from the fuselage. The design problems were not ever re-designed until disaster struck. Not even a miracle of pilot adaptation to loss of partial control was warning enough for the manufacturer to ground all flights, redesign the doors and rebuild them all. The poorly designed MD DC-10 cargo door opened outward, unlike all of the other cargo doors built into other aircraft designs, which opened inward, never to fail.

    In 1972, it was just that same door on the DC-10, that failed, resulting in the rapid decompression that pulled out the aft section of the passenger area floor above the cargo hold, where no passengers were seated. By sheer mastery of his craft the pilot, after having lost the ability to direct the jet without steering, used the engines themselves, power varying to each engine, to guide the plane to an abandoned air force base runway that happened to now be occupied by a Sunday afternoon picnic of those who had just attended a local drag race competition. No one died that time. McDonnell Douglas was that ignorant not to see just how fortunate they were in living thru a design catastrophe and then not acting immediately to save further loss of life. As in both of these companies' real world profit focus, being part of the most lucrative SSPrograms showed just why they were in the businesses they were in, where loss of life is an accepted part of them doing business.

    Two more complete failures later, after the loss of life on two flights, the NTSB and the FAA ordered the problem to be solved. The payout from one of those airline tragedies cost MD $80 Million to settle the loss-of-life lawsuits. It wasn't long after that Boeing bought MD. Something about doors staring these careless airlines in the face, even with the large lawsuits looming. The undercover Al Jazeera testimonies from those building these planes is reason enough to question the safety of any airliner build before choosing to put your life at risk flying in one of them.
    Last edited by Hym; 14th March 2024 at 23:45.

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    Default Re: Boeing Mega Troubles with its 737 MAX 8 Overriding Nose Dive Crashes

    https://x.com/WallStreetSilv/status/...285482626?s=20



    BREAKING:

    Boeing whistleblower said this before his death to his friend Jennifer.

    "If anything happens to me"

    "It's not suicide"

    🚨🚨🚨


    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...ts-not-suicide

    Boeing Whistleblower: "If Anything Happens to Me, It's Not Suicide"

    BY TYLER DURDEN
    FRIDAY, MAR 15, 2024 - 09:00 AM
    Authored by Paul Joseph Watson via Modernity.news,

    The Boeing whistleblower who supposedly killed himself reportedly told a close family friend not to believe it if it was announced he had committed suicide.

    62-year-old John Barnett died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, the Charleston County coroner’s office in South Carolina said earlier this week.

    Barnett had previously raised concerns about the company’s production issues having worked for the company for 32 years before leaving in 2017.

    According to his attorneys, Barnett had “exposed very serious safety problems with the Boeing 787 Dreamliner and was retaliated against and subjected to a hostile work environment” and was in the middle of a legal deposition against Boeing.

    “He was in very good spirits and really looking forward to putting this phase of his life behind him and moving on. We didn’t see any indication he would take his own life. No one can believe it,” said the attorneys.

    < more at link >
    Last edited by mountain_jim; 15th March 2024 at 14:06.
    I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. - Robert Anton Wilson

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    (avatar image: Brocken spectre, a wonderful phenomenon of nature I have experienced and a symbol for my aspirations.)

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  31. Link to Post #56
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    Default Re: Boeing Mega Troubles with its 737 MAX 8 Overriding Nose Dive Crashes

    Now this has happened. One might not believe it if all this was in a movie.
    Boeing 737 With 139 Passengers Loses External Panel Mid-Air

    Literally, not a day goes by without Boeing suffering some major incident, whether it is doors and tires falling off, runway excursions, engine fires, hydraulic leaks, pilot seats flailing around the cockpit and slamming the yoke and, OH YEAH, a "suicided" whistleblower who told a close friend if anything happened to him, it most certainly wasn't suicide.

    Well, we can now add one more: a United Airlines flight - because it's never American or Delta... always United - that took off from San Francisco International Airport Friday morning landed in Oregon with a missing external panel, abc7 reported citing to officials.



    As the NY Post notes, United Airlines Flight 433 departed from San Francisco around 10:20 a.m. local time and landed safely at its intended destination, Rogue Valley International-Medford Airport, about 70 minutes later, according to airport officials and flight data.

    Once the plane reached the gate, an external panel was found to be missing, halting operations at the airport while a runway safety check was conducted, airport director Amber Judd told The NY Post.

    Amazingly, there was no indication of a problem and no emergency was ever declared during the flight, which had 139 passengers and 6 crew members on board, according to United.

    Airport staff searched for the missing panel on the airport premises, but were unable to locate it.

    “After finding no debris on the airfield, normal operations at MFR resumed a few minutes later,” she said.

    United Airlines said it plans a “thorough examination” of the 25-year-old plane and will “perform all the needed repairs before it returns to service.” Who knows, maybe another whistleblower will "commit suicide" too.

    “We’ll also conduct an investigation to better understand how this damage occurred,” the airline added.

    The Federal Aviation Administration will also investigate the incident, a spokesperson said.

    Incidents have plagued Boeing airplane in the past few weeks: on Monday, a United Airlines Flight heading from Sydney to San Francisco, was forced to turn around mid-flight due to a hydraulic leak. The Boeing 777-300 plane, which was carrying 167 passengers and 16 crew member, landed safely back in Sydney.

    Hours earlier, a Boeing 787 Dreamliner en route Sydney to Auckland, New Zealand experienced a technical issue that resulted in injuries to 50 passengers. Then, a United Airlines flight from San Francisco to Japan diverted to Los Angeles International Airport on March 7 after a tire on the Boeing 777-20 fell off after takeoff, damaging cars in a parking lot on the ground.

    Boeing told its employees in a memo Tuesday that the company is implementing weekly compliance checks for every 737 work area and additional equipment audits to reduce quality problems.

    It isn't quite clear what is behind the recent surge in incidents which are just too many to keep track of at this point...
    ... but one thing is certain: more are coming, which one can only hope won't be fatal.

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  33. Link to Post #57
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boeing Mega Troubles with its 737 MAX 8 Overriding Nose Dive Crashes

    A cool, rational, 10-minute video that may be worth watching for anyone who's been following this closely.

    VERY interesting to read are the many detailed YT comments from former Boeing engineers on both this video and others posted recently on this excellent channel. They all tell the exact same story, about how reports of manufacturing errors and component failures are flat-out ignored by Boeing management in the name of profits and 'efficiency'.



    The Boeing Scandal just got a LOT Worse


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