+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 34

Thread: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

  1. Link to Post #1
    United States Avalon Member cursichella1's Avatar
    Join Date
    8th April 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    754
    Thanks
    8,704
    Thanked 3,315 times in 679 posts

    Default China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    Paul Joseph Watson on China's creepy Social Credit System. It's already rolling out in the U.S.--except here, Silicon Valley is monitoring, shaming and silencing dissenting voices "for our own good".

    cursichella1


    Qui tacet consentit

  2. The Following 21 Users Say Thank You to cursichella1 For This Post:

    AndrejPeĉënkin (26th November 2018), Antagenet (6th September 2019), avid (25th November 2018), Axman (26th November 2018), Bill Ryan (25th November 2018), BMJ (27th November 2018), Deux Corbeaux (26th November 2018), ExomatrixTV (9th October 2019), Franny (26th November 2018), Hervé (26th November 2018), Innocent Warrior (26th November 2018), Ioneo (25th November 2018), jjjones (26th November 2018), justntime2learn (25th November 2018), Magnus (25th November 2018), Nasu (25th November 2018), nsb (5th September 2019), Reinhard (27th November 2018), Tintin (26th November 2018), toppy (26th November 2018), yelik (26th November 2018)

  3. Link to Post #2
    Croatia Administrator Franny's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd January 2011
    Location
    Island Time
    Posts
    1,042
    Thanks
    13,557
    Thanked 5,227 times in 900 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    This cheerleader thinks it's a fantastic idea.

    http://chinarising.puntopress.com/20...noland-180325/

    West attacks China’s Social Credit System to deflect from its fascist panopticon. China Rising Radio Sinoland 180325



    Western propaganda brilliantly and ceaselessly employs what is known as psychological reflection. This is a mental health term meaning that if you are guilty of being a pedophile or tax cheat, for example, you get on your soapbox about the evils of child molestation or fiscal crooks, respectively, while doing exactly that. Another great example is homophobia. Many homophobes, especially the most violent ones are repressed, closeted gays and lesbians, who internally loathe themselves.

    Be it war, invasions, occupation, genocide, massacres, exterminations (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/20...noland-180319/), the use of chemical and biological weapons (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/20...noland-180310/), institutionalized corruption, election fraud, pollution, CIA drug cartels, CIA organized crime (https://ganxy.com/i/113798/), ad nauseam, the West aggressively attacks all its enemies for being guilty of these and the rest of the world’s criminality, when in fact Eurangloland is the most brazen and bald faced Global Enemy #1 in every one of these categories, with the rest of humanity being its long-suffering victims.

    Sadly, the West’s psychological reflection works so well that its endless tsunami of shameless lies and propaganda continues to win over the long term. Just look at how Eurangloland has completely perverted the opinions of the vast majority of the world’s people, at least those who do not live in communist-socialist countries, when it comes to Russia, the Russian people and its president, Vladimir Putin. Ditto Iran, Venezuela, North Korea (DPRK), Cuba, the Philippines and any other country (or its leader) that does not allow itself to be a craven whore for capitalist empire.

    The effectiveness of western psychological reflection in the mainstream media is so thorough, that people I know who should see through this withering fog of propaganda are completely brainwashed. I call it being behind the Great Western Firewall. Yet, most Westerners I know who live overseas are just as clueless, due to their innate sense of racial superiority (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/20...noland-171110/) and their unwillingness to look beyond CIA-MI6 CNN, New York Times, BBC, the Economist and all the other rubber stamp ventriloquist dummies that shill for their deep state masters. It is a demoralizing fact of life, something I passionately wrote about in Book #2 of The China Trilogy (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/20...china-trilogy/), China Rising – Capitalist Roads, Socialist Destinations (https://ganxy.com/i/113798/).

    Eurangloland’s owners are throwing everything they have trying to destroy Russia, Iran, Venezuela and DPRK (let’s call them the Fearless Four) and too many others to name. You may notice that three of these four countries are some of the biggest hydrocarbon producers in the solar system, and that’s what the West’s elites really want to do, is bring down their respective governments and install puppet Boris Yeltsin’s, to commence with the rape of their citizens and plunder of their natural resources. It’s called capitalism, if you haven’t already figured it out or have yet to reluctantly accept the truth.

    After 500 years of global tyranny and dictatorship, cracks in Western empire’s game plan are starting to show. The Fearless Four keep exposing Westerners for the racist buffoons and ideological zealots that they are. Almost nothing is working as planned near home base Europe (Russia and Iran) and America (Venezuela) Even North Korea’s very astute Kim Jong-Un is besting the West on the diplomatic front (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/20...noland-170828/), having gotten Trump to agree to a joint summit (https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...ong-un/555323/).

    How much worse can it get for Western empire? It must be time to bomb another country into the Middle Ages, or invade a small, helpless, poorly defended country full of dark skinned people. Like Iraq, how about Grenada II? That’ll keep the beer and popcorn flowing in front of Westerners’ 25%-interest-installment-plan-purchased widescreen TVs, for a week of Hunger Games bread and circuses.

    Way out east, OMG, along comes Baba Beijing (China’s leadership) to really make a mess for Eurangloland (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/20...noland-171123/). It too continues to run circles around racist, greedy and let’s face it, incredibly hubristic Westerners, at least the deep state and its stooges who occupy positions of power in its “democratically elected” puppet governments (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/20...noland-171022/

    and http://chinarising.puntopress.com/20...noland-171210/).

    Thus, the mainstream media Wehrmacht undoubtedly has on the boards to try to bring down Baba Beijing, but it is being held up. Why? Three’s company and the Fearless Four are already a crowd. You can only spread your resources of destruction and chaos so far. As any good fascist will tell you, the Big Lie means staying laser focused and relentlessly on-message. Given with how it’s currently playing out and knowing the ultimate goal is taking control of these Others’ human and natural resources, the propaganda tsunami against the Fearless Four is already reaching the point of diminishing marginal returns. Adding a fifth behemoth target like China (which is just as savvy and patient as the Fearless Four) has probably been deemed too much by the West’s owners.

    Therefore, Baba Beijing has gotten off pretty lightly up to now, compared to the fascist Big Lie against the Fearless Four. But in the interim, that still doesn’t mean China gets off Scot-free. The CIA-MI6 mainstream media juggernaut sees a chink in China’s armor (sorry, I couldn’t resist the awful, off-color pun), with its rapidly developing (Chinese) Social Credit System (CSCS – http://chinarising.puntopress.com/20...noland-180111/).

    Patrice Greanville, Editor-in-Chief of The Greanville Post (http://www.greanvillepost.com/) sent to Godfree Roberts and me a hatchet piece about CSCS (https://forbiddenknowledgetv.net/chi...credit-scores/). It originally came from Reuters, a CIA-MI6 chop shop from way back (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKCN1GS10S). James Corbett has a rabid, irrational fear of all things China-socialism-communism, so he piled on (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6Buhli5MYk). Then Forbidden Knowledge ran with Corbett’s propaganda video, adding insult to injury.

    Corbett is so cartoonishly bad about this subject, I even commented on it in China Rising – Capitalist Roads, Socialist Destinations (https://ganxy.com/i/113798/). It’s too bad, because otherwise he does some really good journalism. But then again, “liberal”, “progressive”, “alternative” journalists who have epileptic seizures at the mere whiff of China, socialism, communism or false flags (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/20...noland-170505/) are a renminbi a thousand. It takes courage and conviction to look outside your own bigoted, ideological blinders to admit that there are different points of view and squirm-in-your-seats, smoking gun evidence.

    I sometimes wonder if journos like this get PayPal hongbao (red envelopes full of money given during Chinese New Year) from Langley and Vauxhall Cross, to post anti-Chinese propaganda. Or, maybe they are just your plain vanilla, subconscious racists (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/20...adio-sinoland/). Forbidden Knowledge possibly didn’t notice it, but they allowed Godfree’s thoughtful and reasoned riposte to be published below their piece. If they nuke it, I have posted it below, safe for posterity.

    In closing, here is a prime example of the difference between the West’s real life, fascist panopticon versus China’s open, honest and forthright Social Credit System. This month, China Central Television (CCTV) cooperated with Tencent Research (of Wechat fame) to do a national survey, talking to 8,000 citizens. The results were broadcast on CCTV, picked up by all the print and social media and it was the topic-of-the-country for a few days. Why? Because 76.3% of the respondents think that some kinds of artificial intelligence (AI) are a threat to their privacy (https://www.thestar.com.my/tech/tech...erns-in-china/). As the world’s largest user of surveys and polls (I wrote a whole chapter on this in China Rising and here is an article that touches on it: http://chinarising.puntopress.com/20...noland-160522/), I can guarantee you that the results of this poll and many others like it were/are put on President Xi Jinping’s desk, as well as in the hands of thousands of other decision makers in China’s government. Unlike the West, Baba Beijing and Chinese democracy are proactively responsive to the citizens’ concerns, hopes and aspirations (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/20...noland-171130/). Thousands of poll results are synthesized, analyzed and end up in laws passed and policies changed. China’s is real people’s participatory democracy, not the elitist, Potemkin Western version (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/20...orship-171227/).

    Herewith is Godfree Robert’s comment about the Reuters/Corbett Report/Forbidden Knowledge fearmongering yarn about China’s SCS. It is a great combo with my aforementioned article on the same subject (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/20...noland-180111/).

    I would like to preface Godfree by saying that in the CSCS, if you have substantial back taxes, delinquent loans, unpaid financial court settlements and the like, you can be banned from flying, or taking costlier highspeed trains here. They may even take your passport. The logic being, if you can afford to buzz all over the place, then why can’t you pay your debts? These are usually well-heeled citizens who have the assets to live the high life. They can always drive their (chauffeured) cars on China’s 131,000km of motorways, more than any other country in the world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...noland-170824/). I have never heard of not being able to take the metro or standard trains, unless you are out of prison and on parole.

    These kinds of restrictions and much more onerous ones are put upon citizens in the West. The United States is now routinely imprisoning poor people who owe money, East St. Louis being just one of many examples (https://www.theatlantic.com/business...prison/462378/). That’s just the tip of the American iceberg for loss of freedoms and due process. The Oklahoma Department of Education (ODE) refuses to give me my updated teacher’s certificate, because I have sent in my tax returns to the IRS three times, and due to its incompetence, my returns have never been official registered in its database. Last summer, I even went to the Oklahoma Tax Commission and hand delivered my returns to them, but that’s not good enough. The feds say no go, so I’m out $50 at ODE for nothing but frustration and insults.

    These kinds of governmental limits on freedom and due process are legendary in the West (I lived and worked in France for five years), often preying on the powerless, voiceless and dark skinned members of society. As Godfree explains below, the Chinese are getting legal recourse for the CSCS. I know experientially that they already have it in local courts for small claim redresses, because I threatened to sue my landlord in Beijing and he backed down, a true life story I detailed in China Is Communist Dammit – Dawn of the Red Dynasty (https://www.amazon.com/China-Communi...dp/6027354380/).

    Godfree’s turn:

    Erm, no. China’s very public Social Credit program is not America’s very secret No Fly List. Not even close.

    Our media are interpreting yet another Chinese policy, Social Credit, in Western terms but China does things differently and, usually, better.

    First, Social Credit is a popular initiative: the Chinese are the most trusting society on earth yet don’t have credit ratings so they’re tired of being scammed online for billions each year.

    First [II], they trust the government–not private credit agencies like Equifax–to run projects that impact everyone because they trust their government far more than we trust ours: 86% of them say it works for everybody and not just for a fortunate few.

    Second, Social Credit doesn’t just rate citizens. It rates everyone from government departments and individual officials to cops, corporations, Supreme Court justices, Congresspeople–absolutely everyone and every enterprise gets a social credit rating that arises naturally from their interactions with others.

    Third, doesn’t this sound better than being secretly rated by private corporations who sell your information to other private corporations and secretly share it with government agencies–without your permission? And charge us for access to our own information? And offer no reciprocity? Ask TRW for a vendor’s credit history and current rating and what it costs you.

    Fourth, Social Credit is 90% carrot and 10% stick: the higher your score the easier your life becomes. Japan and the Netherlands already offer expedited visa processing for tourists with scores above 750 and landlords and car rentals waive deposits if you’re over 800. It’s intended to be a magic carpet for those who play straight with everyone they encounter.

    Fifth, all the rules are public and anyone can play and all changes to your SC rating are transparent to you, in real time. For free.

    Sixth, China already has a prototype running, an online Social Credit Arbitration Court where, for a few dollars, you can have your case heard and receive a binding verdict that corrects mistakes. Millions of people use it and are refining it. It will go national in 2020.

    Seventh, There’s an idealistic element: it’s part of China’s 2,000-year-old plan to create a ‘datong’ society in which (to be brief) everybody is taken care of and nobody needs to lock their doors at night: a goal every Chinese supports and which the government hopes to deliver by 2120. Imagine the effects of 100 years of Social Credit on the entire culture…

    Customers applying for visas for developed countries, like Luxembourg or Japan, with scores above 750 need not submit bank records and enjoy perks like expedited airport security checks: a consumers’ magic carpet that reduces transaction fees and credit losses and builds consumer confidence. By 2018, more than 1,100 government officials had been blacklisted.

    More carrot than stick, corporations with strong social credit can expect government contracts and low-interest loans and raises small corporations’ credit if they observe consumer and product safety regulations, while debiting them for unreliability, dishonesty, excess emissions and even poor worker safety. Regulators say that, when the system becomes integrated it will generate corporate scorecards directly from sensor data, CCTV cameras, government and court records and consumer reviews.

    The program comes with a sting in its tail, as Oxford University’s Rogier Creemers says, “When rules are broken and not rectified in time you are entered in a list of ‘people subject to enforcement for trust breaking’ and denied access to things. Rules broken by corporations can lead to them being unable to issue corporate bonds and individuals being unable to become company directors. Trust-breakers can face penalties on subsidies, career progression, asset ownership and the ability to receive honorary titles from the Chinese government. Those who fail to repay debts are punished by travel restrictions”.

    A typical travel restriction made the news in 2017 when a real estate developer attempted to book a first class ticket to London and found that the system would only issue him a tourist seat. When he investigated he found that his restriction stemmed from several court judgements whose penalties he had not paid. By 2018, the People’s Court had banned six million defaulters from traveling by air and was working with government departments to ensure that they would be ‘limited on multiple levels’. A local court got creative: when someone calls a delinquent debtor in Dengfeng, Henan Province, instead of a ringtone they hear, “The person you are calling is listed as dishonest by the Dengfeng People’s Court. Please urge them to fulfill their obligations”.

    Social Credit gives consumers the same access to corporate and government ratings as corporations and governments have to consumers and make a highly trusting society transparent. Since it will be operational by 2020 and will doubtless arouse Western fears of Orwellian control, here is the official summary of the State Council’s Basic Plan for Establishing and Improving Systems of Joint Incentives for Trustworthiness [I posted the link to the whole document in my related article- http://chinarising.puntopress.com/20...noland-180111/]:

    Praise creditworthiness, discipline untrustworthiness. Fully utilize credit incentives and constraints, increasing the extent of incentives for trustworthy entities and of disciplinary actions for seriously untrustworthy entities, letting the trustworthy receive benefits and the untrustworthy be subject to restrictions, forming systemic mechanisms for praising honesty and disciplining untrustworthiness.

    Coordinate departmental and social action. By disclosing and sharing credit information, establish cross-region, interdepartmental, and cross-sector mechanisms for joint incentives and joint disciplinary action, forming a common governance structure in which government departments coordinate their concerted action, industry organizes self-discipline and management, credit service organizations actively participate–all broadly supervised by public opinion.

    Protect rights and interests in accordance with laws and regulations. Strictly follow laws, regulations and policies to scientifically delineate trustworthy and untrustworthy conduct, develop joint incentives for trustworthiness and joint disciplinary action for untrustworthiness.

    Establish complete mechanisms for credit restoration, objections, appeals and so forth to protect all participants’ lawful rights and interests [the Social Credit Arbitration Court].

    Focus on key points, coordinate advancement. Persist in being problem-oriented, striving to resolve credit issues in key industries that are currently harmful to the public interest and public safety, on which many people have given strong feedback [recall all the polls and surveys discussed above], or which have caused serious negative impacts on economic and social development.

    Encourage and support innovations and demonstrations by local people’s governments and relevant departments and gradually expand mechanisms for jointly incentivizing trustworthiness and jointly discipline untrustworthiness to every area of the economy and society.

    This is another Big Chinese Experiment, a revolutionary way for people and institutions to relate to one another so let’s give it a chance. Who knows? We might learn something.

    ###

  4. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Franny For This Post:

    aoibhghaire (26th November 2018), Bruno (26th November 2018), conk (6th September 2019), CurEus (29th November 2018), cursichella1 (26th November 2018), Hervé (26th November 2018), Innocent Warrior (26th November 2018), justntime2learn (26th November 2018), Rahkyt (6th September 2019), syrwong (27th November 2018), Tintin (26th November 2018), toppy (26th November 2018)

  5. Link to Post #3
    United States Avalon Member
    Join Date
    29th April 2018
    Age
    68
    Posts
    535
    Thanks
    1,808
    Thanked 3,983 times in 520 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    Because I posted this reply Be sure to give me a thumbs up on my facebook page to help my rating and social standing in the world.


    Dark mirror .. nose dive


    : The episode is set in a world where people can rate each other from one to five stars for every interaction they have, which can impact their socioeconomic status. Lacie (Bryce Dallas Howard) is a young woman overly obsessed with her ratings; she finds an opportunity to elevate her ratings greatly and move into a more luxurious residence after being chosen by her popular childhood friend (Alice Eve) as the maid of honour for her wedding. Her obsession leads to several mishaps on her journey to the wedding that culminate in a rapid reduction in her ratings.


    Society uses a technology where, through eye implants and mobile devices, everyone shares their daily activities and rates their interactions with others on a one-to-five star scale, which affects that person's overall rating. One's current average can be seen by others and has significant influence on their socioeconomic status.

    Lacie Pound (Bryce Dallas Howard) currently has a 4.2 rating, seeking to reach 4.5 for a discount to a luxury apartment; however, her attempts to be an outgoing and pleasant socialite do little to help. She lives with brother Ryan (James Norton), who is not interested in ratings. Lacie talks to a consultant who suggests gaining favour from very highly-rated people, as they have larger impacts on scores. Lacie takes a photograph of Mr. Rags, a teddy bear that she and childhood friend, the now highly-rated Naomi (Alice Eve), made together. She is pleased when Naomi rates the photo five stars and calls her, saying that she is engaged. Lacie agrees to deliver a speech as the maid of honour, hoping it will boost her rating to above 4.5. Lacie then commits on the luxury apartment.

    On the day of her flight, Lacie gets into a disagreement with Ryan, missing her ride, and runs into a passerby who spills their coffee. The two rate her negatively, dropping her below 4.2. At the airport, her flight is cancelled and she cannot buy a seat with her current rating. Lacie causes a scene, where security intervenes and subtracts a full point for a period of 24 hours, as well as doubling the effect of subsequent negative ratings against her. Because of her low rating, Lacie can only rent an older car to drive to the wedding, causing her to miss Naomi's rehearsal dinner. She cannot recharge the car when it runs out of power, and is forced to hitchhike; she rides with Susan (Cherry Jones), a truck driver rated below a 2.0. Susan tells Lacie that she used to care about her rating, once a 4.6, until her late husband was passed over for vital cancer treatment for a person a tenth above his rating; she feels much freer without obsessing over ratings.

    The next day, while Lacie is en route to the wedding via RV, Naomi tells her to not come, as her severely reduced rating will negatively impact her own ratings. Enraged, Lacie manages to get to the site of the wedding and sneak in during the celebratory dinner. She grabs the microphone and starts giving the speech she had written but starts becoming dangerously upset, at one point grabbing a knife and threatening to behead Mr. Rags. The guests rate Lacie negatively, so her rating drops to below one star. Security comes and arrests Lacie. She is taken to prison, the technology supporting the rating system removed from her eyes, and placed in a cell. She gets into an argument with a man in a separate cell (Sope Dirisu), also stripped of the rating hardware, and both realise how freeing it is to speak without worrying about being rated.




  6. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to ichingcarpenter For This Post:

    BMJ (27th November 2018), Bruno (26th November 2018), CurEus (29th November 2018), cursichella1 (26th November 2018), Franny (26th November 2018), Innocent Warrior (26th November 2018), Tintin (26th November 2018), toppy (26th November 2018)

  7. Link to Post #4
    United States Moderator James's Avatar
    Join Date
    6th November 2018
    Posts
    144
    Thanks
    268
    Thanked 1,194 times in 137 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    Forgive me if I’m naive, but here in the States, it’s relatively common for “Boomers” and those over the age of 40 to put a lot of self worth and value into their credit scores. Millennials like myself are a bit skeptical over the concept of a credit score, and either don’t have much credit established, or have poor numbers.

    Since Social Credits seem to operate much like a credit score here (ability to “move forward” in society and upgrade your living/driving arrangements) I would think a good target audience in the States for a similar system would be us Millennials. It would surely appear as a fresh start for Equifax-leery 20-somethings, and would be a sure fire way to refresh the stale old machine, allowing it to shed its dry scales and slither into the next era.

    Maybe UltraFICO is a preview of this, testing the water with the big toe?

    Yikes, again!
    Last edited by James; 26th November 2018 at 03:01. Reason: Grammar fix!

  8. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to James For This Post:

    Bruno (26th November 2018), cursichella1 (26th November 2018), Hervé (26th November 2018), Innocent Warrior (26th November 2018), Tintin (26th November 2018), toppy (26th November 2018)

  9. Link to Post #5
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    26th December 2010
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    9,561
    Thanks
    37,831
    Thanked 52,748 times in 8,858 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    Quote Posted by Variant (here)
    Forgive me if I’m naive, but here in the States, it’s relatively common for “Boomers” and those over the age of 40 to put a lot of self worth and value into their credit scores. Millennials like myself are a bit skeptical over the concept of a credit score, and either don’t have much credit established, or have poor numbers.

    Since Social Credits seem to operate much like a credit score here (ability to “move forward” in society and upgrade your living/driving arrangements) I would think a good target audience in the States for a similar system would be us Millennials. It would surely appear as a fresh start for Equifax-leery 20-somethings, and would be a sure fire way to refresh the stale old machine, allowing it to shed its dry scales and slither into the next era.

    Maybe UltraFICO is a preview of this, testing the water with the big toe?

    Yikes, again!
    I had a boss recently who would do everything on being liked, We had to be liked by everybody (she is a generation X from a small town). If anybody would compalint about you on anything, it was a catastrophy, you were the bad one. As it is impossible to be perfect in everybody's eye, she would end up not being happy with her employees.

    Of course, she would not support her employees if they encountered any difficulties with someone else, even when unrelated to the job. You had to geet in the office and say Hi to everyone, every morning otherwise you were not a team player (I had seen that in France, but never in America).

    Of course, the hard to do management was never done on a daily basis, she would not have been nice.

    It was literally suffocating. I was calling it management by nicy and nicing, the only deciding factor.

    I wish that to nobody, it kills ideas, it kills originality and the brightest ones have their head chopped off.

  10. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Flash For This Post:

    Bruno (26th November 2018), cursichella1 (26th November 2018), Hervé (26th November 2018), Innocent Warrior (26th November 2018), James (26th November 2018), meeradas (26th November 2018), Michi (26th November 2018), Tintin (26th November 2018), toppy (26th November 2018)

  11. Link to Post #6
    Great Britain Avalon Member
    Join Date
    26th April 2017
    Posts
    77
    Thanks
    275
    Thanked 361 times in 74 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    Maoist-Marxist-Leninist-Communist China is the model the western self appointed government elites have planned for us in the west.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to chris_walker For This Post:

    cursichella1 (27th November 2018)

  13. Link to Post #7
    Philippines Avalon Member
    Join Date
    29th May 2013
    Age
    53
    Posts
    2,473
    Thanks
    4,148
    Thanked 9,070 times in 2,143 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    taking the "thought police" to the next level.

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bubu For This Post:

    Bruno (26th November 2018), cursichella1 (27th November 2018)

  15. Link to Post #8
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    5th January 2011
    Posts
    757
    Thanks
    2,006
    Thanked 4,793 times in 685 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    If in China they ban you from flying for walking a dog without a leash, what would they do to you for hate speech against your elect President.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    China bans millions of people from traveling for violating its ‘social credit’ system

    Published: Feb 22, 2019 9:54 a.m. ET

    Offenses range from failure pay taxes, false advertising and even minor ones like walking a dog without a leash.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ch...sociated-press

    BEIJING (AP) — Forgot to pay a fine in China? Then forget about buying an airline ticket.

    Would-be air travelers were blocked from buying tickets 17.5 million times last year under a controversial “social credit” system the ruling Communist Party says will improve public behavior.

    Some 5.5 million people were barred from buying train tickets, according to the National Public Credit Information Center. In an annual report, it said 128 people were blocked from leaving China because they were behind on their taxes.

    The ruling party says penalties and rewards under “social credit” will improve order in a fast-changing society. Three decades of economic reform have shaken up social structures. Markets are rife with counterfeit goods and fraud.

    The system is part of efforts by President Xi Jinping’s government to use technology from data processing to genetic sequencing and facial recognition to tighten control.

    Authorities have experimented with “social credit” since 2014 in areas across China. Points are deducted for breaking the law or, in some areas, offenses as minor as walking a dog without a leash.

    Human rights activists say “social credit” is too rigid and might unfairly label people as untrustworthy without telling them they have lost status or how to restore it.

    U.S. Vice President Mike Pence criticized it in October as “an Orwellian system premised on controlling virtually every facet of human life.”

    The ruling party says it plans to have a nationwide “social credit” system in place by 2020 but has yet to say how it will operate.

    Possible penalties include restrictions on travel, business and access to education. A slogan repeated in state media says, “Once you lose trust, you will face restrictions everywhere.”

    Companies on the blacklist can lose government contracts or access to bank loans.

    Offenses penalized under “social credit” last year ranged from failure pay taxes to false advertising or violating drug safety rules, the government information center said. Individuals were blocked 290,000 times from taking senior management jobs or acting as a company’s legal representative.

    It gave no details of how many people live in areas with “social credit” systems.

    “Social credit” is one facet of efforts by the ruling party to take advantage of increased computing power, artificial intelligence and other technology to track and control the Chinese public.

    The police ministry launched an initiative dubbed “Golden Shield” in 2000 to build a nationwide digital network to track individuals.

    The ruling party is spending heavily to roll out facial recognition systems. Human rights activists say people in Muslim and other ethnic minority areas have been compelled to give blood samples for a genetic database.

    Those systems rely heavily on foreign technology, which has prompted criticism of U.S. and European suppliers for enabling human rights abuses.

    This week, Waltham, Massachusetts-based Thermo Fisher Scientific Inc. said it no longer would sell or service genetic sequencers in the Muslim-majority region of Xinjiang following criticism they were used for surveillance.

    As many as 1 million Uighurs, Kazakhs and other Muslim minorities in Xinjiang are detained in political education camps, according to U.S. officials and United Nations experts. The government says those camps are vocational training centers designed to rid the region of extremism.
    Last edited by ramus; 23rd February 2019 at 16:25.

  16. The Following 24 Users Say Thank You to ramus For This Post:

    AndrejPeĉënkin (22nd February 2019), Bill Ryan (25th February 2019), BMJ (23rd February 2019), christian (26th February 2019), Constance (25th February 2019), DaveToo (25th February 2019), Debra (25th February 2019), Denise/Dizi (25th February 2019), Did You See Them (22nd February 2019), Flash (22nd February 2019), Icare (22nd February 2019), Inversion (23rd February 2019), jjjones (22nd February 2019), justntime2learn (23rd February 2019), Nasu (22nd February 2019), norman (22nd February 2019), onawah (22nd February 2019), peterpam (23rd February 2019), Reinhard (12th October 2019), Tam (24th February 2019), Tintin (22nd February 2019), toppy (23rd February 2019), Valerie Villars (23rd February 2019), Zanshin (23rd February 2019)

  17. Link to Post #9
    England Avalon Member Did You See Them's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th October 2015
    Age
    54
    Posts
    683
    Thanks
    2,443
    Thanked 3,886 times in 635 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    I weep for the future of humanity

  18. The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to Did You See Them For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (25th February 2019), BMJ (23rd February 2019), DaveToo (25th February 2019), Debra (25th February 2019), Denise/Dizi (25th February 2019), Flash (22nd February 2019), Ioneo (22nd February 2019), jjjones (22nd February 2019), Nasu (22nd February 2019), ramus (25th February 2019), Reinhard (12th October 2019), Spellbound (23rd February 2019), Tintin (22nd February 2019), toppy (23rd February 2019)

  19. Link to Post #10
    Avalon Member Axman's Avatar
    Join Date
    21st March 2010
    Location
    IL a noise
    Age
    58
    Posts
    438
    Thanks
    6,371
    Thanked 1,761 times in 338 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    Quote Posted by Did You See Them (here)
    I weep for the future of humanity
    Amen
    I do to listening to some of whats out there is scary.

    The Axman
    And ?

  20. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Axman For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (25th February 2019), BMJ (23rd February 2019), Debra (25th February 2019), Denise/Dizi (25th February 2019), ramus (25th February 2019), Reinhard (12th October 2019), toppy (23rd February 2019), Valerie Villars (23rd February 2019)

  21. Link to Post #11
    Australia Avalon Member BMJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    4th May 2010
    Posts
    1,303
    Thanks
    36,425
    Thanked 5,850 times in 1,145 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    For anyone whom is unaware of what this is, see below.

    Penalties for jay walking to visiting unauthorised sites on the internet etc will lead to all sorts restrictions, in an effort to make the china's people conform to government approved norms.

    China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System



    Paul Joseph Watson
    Published on Nov 25, 2018
    And how it's already operating in the west.
    In hoc signo vinces / In this sign thou shalt conquer

  22. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to BMJ For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (25th February 2019), Debra (25th February 2019), Denise/Dizi (25th February 2019), drneglector (24th February 2019), justntime2learn (23rd February 2019), peterpam (23rd February 2019), ramus (23rd February 2019), Reinhard (12th October 2019), Tintin (24th February 2019), toppy (23rd February 2019), Valerie Villars (23rd February 2019), Zanshin (25th February 2019)

  23. Link to Post #12
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    5th January 2011
    Posts
    757
    Thanks
    2,006
    Thanked 4,793 times in 685 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    It was brought to my attention that the title to the article was incorrect, ( Would-be air travelers were blocked from buying tickets 17.5 million times last year) ... not 17 million people ..just another example of the media painting a picture that is skewed. I think the # was 5.5 million people were barred from buying train tickets. No statistics on how many plane tickets were denied.

    WORDS paint a picture for your mind, MSM knows what picture they want you to see.

  24. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to ramus For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (25th February 2019), Debra (25th February 2019), DeDukshyn (23rd February 2019), Denise/Dizi (25th February 2019), onawah (23rd February 2019), peterpam (23rd February 2019), Reinhard (12th October 2019), Tintin (24th February 2019)

  25. Link to Post #13
    UK Avalon Member bogdan9310's Avatar
    Join Date
    30th January 2019
    Location
    Swindon
    Age
    26
    Posts
    66
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 96 times in 36 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    A lot of awful stories about china. But before you criticize them, think about that the western civilizations are doing this behind your back. China is just being honest.

  26. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to bogdan9310 For This Post:

    Antagenet (6th September 2019), Bill Ryan (25th February 2019), DaveToo (25th February 2019), Debra (25th February 2019), Denise/Dizi (25th February 2019), peterpam (23rd February 2019), ramus (25th February 2019), Reinhard (12th October 2019)

  27. Link to Post #14
    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    22nd January 2011
    Location
    From 100 Mile House ;-)
    Language
    English
    Age
    45
    Posts
    7,757
    Thanks
    24,897
    Thanked 32,274 times in 6,946 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    There's a lot wrong with that OP article.

    There's a massive conflation of all sorts of assumptions and speculations being presented as fact.

    What I am seeing is China cracking down on tax evaders and not letting them leave the country -- USA does the exact same thing.
    Banning your travel from not walking you dog with a leash isn't something that actually happened to anyone.

    That aside, lumping all criminal activities together into a "credit" system though is obviously going to be rife with issues. That's the only real story here.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

  28. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to DeDukshyn For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (25th February 2019), onawah (23rd February 2019), ramus (25th February 2019), Tintin (24th February 2019)

  29. Link to Post #15
    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th November 2017
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,721
    Thanks
    27,979
    Thanked 18,154 times in 2,679 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    Well, I won't be going to China anytime soon. They would never let me leave.

    And here in the U.S. you are banned in certain states from getting a driver's license if you owe over a certain amount in State taxes. Amounts vary from state to state.

    Ain't life grand?
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

  30. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Valerie Villars For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (25th February 2019), peterpam (23rd February 2019), ramus (25th February 2019), Tintin (24th February 2019)

  31. Link to Post #16
    Avalon Member peterpam's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th June 2012
    Posts
    1,662
    Thanks
    15,403
    Thanked 8,824 times in 1,594 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    This credit system has the ability to control everything you do and who you will associate with. It is absolutely terrifying. I was watching a you tube video and one of the ads that came up was for Sesame Credit (this is the company that created the system) . It had a really friendly vibe about getting access to your free credit score from Sesame Credit. It was for US audiences. I believe the purpose of that is get you to let your guard down when you hear that name. They aren't trying to make their name known in the US for nothing. We are being primed for the same thing. It will just have a different flavor for the Americans. There will be people like my sister who will be fine with it because she says she has nothing to hide. She is naive enough to believe that because she is a law abiding citizen she will never be recipient of any repercussions from something like this. These are the people that will let this happen.

  32. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to peterpam For This Post:

    Antagenet (6th September 2019), Debra (25th February 2019), Denise/Dizi (25th February 2019), ramus (25th February 2019), Tam (24th February 2019), Tintin (24th February 2019), Valerie Villars (25th February 2019)

  33. Link to Post #17
    Avalon Member peterpam's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th June 2012
    Posts
    1,662
    Thanks
    15,403
    Thanked 8,824 times in 1,594 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    There's a lot wrong with that OP article.

    There's a massive conflation of all sorts of assumptions and speculations being presented as fact.

    What I am seeing is China cracking down on tax evaders and not letting them leave the country -- USA does the exact same thing.
    Banning your travel from not walking you dog with a leash isn't something that actually happened to anyone.

    That aside, lumping all criminal activities together into a "credit" system though is obviously going to be rife with issues. That's the only real story here.
    I don't think anyone believes you are not getting to travel for a dog walking citation. After all, it is a cumulative social score, it is not based on a single act. I have read that how much alcohol you purchase is reflected in your social score as well as other purchases you make. It has to do with almost every aspect of your life. The goal is that you will lead the life that the government defines as outstanding, and if you do, you are rewarded, if you don't you will be punished. I have watched interviews of journalists that may be a bit too candid that have their social credit system diminished to the point of not being able to purchase tickets. Also, if you associate with undesirables, your score will suffer, although I am not sure how they would know that. So they are there, all the time turning your life into a point system . I find it really revolting at a core level. At the same time I find it a brilliant mechanism of control.

  34. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to peterpam For This Post:

    Debra (25th February 2019), Denise/Dizi (25th February 2019), ramus (25th February 2019), Tam (24th February 2019), Tintin (24th February 2019), Valerie Villars (25th February 2019)

  35. Link to Post #18
    Avalon Member Carmody's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th August 2010
    Location
    Winning The Galactic Lottery
    Posts
    11,379
    Thanks
    17,589
    Thanked 82,040 times in 10,210 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    No matter how anyone looks at it, I think and feel it is a terrifying precedent to see in action.

    Quote The ruling party is spending heavily to roll out facial recognition systems. Human rights activists say people in Muslim and other ethnic minority areas have been compelled to give blood samples for a genetic database.
    That part just got a HUGE boost, the other day. Of course it comes from Singapore.



    New program picks out targets in a crowd quickly and efficiently


    It can be harder for computers to find Waldo, an elusive character that hides within crowds in a popular children's book series, than it is for humans.

    Now, an A*STAR researcher and her colleagues have developed a biologically-inspired program that could enable computers to identify real-life Waldos and other targets more efficiently.

    Computer image analysis is routinely used in medicine, security, and rescue. Speed is often critical in these efforts, says Mengmi Zhang, a computer scientist at A*STAR's Institute for Infocomm Research, who led the study. She cites the use of computers to help find victims of natural disasters, such as earthquakes.

    But these efforts are often hampered because computers lack human intuition. A person can quickly spot a dog in a crowded space, for instance, even if they have never seen that particular dog before. A computer, by contrast, needs to be trained using thousands of images of different dogs, and even then, they can falter when looking for a new dog whose image they have not encountered previously.

    This weakness could be particularly problematic when scanning for weapons, says Zhang. A computer trained to look for knives and guns, might overlook another sharp object. "If there is one sharp metal stick which has not been seen in the training set, it doesn't mean the passenger should be able to take it on board the airplane," says Zhang.

    Current computer searches also tend to be slow because the computer must scan every part of an image in sequence, paying equal attention to each part. Humans, however, rapidly shift their attention between several different locations in an image to find their target. Zhang and her colleagues' wanted to understand how humans do this so efficiently. They presented 45 people with crowded images and asked them to hunt for a target, say, a sheep. They monitored how the subjects' eyes darted around the scene, fixating briefly on different locations in the image. They found that, on average, people could locate the sheep in around 640 milliseconds. This corresponded to switching the location of their gaze, on average, just over two and a half times.

    The team then developed a computer model to implement this more human-like search strategy in the hunt for a dog. Rather than looking for a target that was identical to an image of a dog given beforehand, the model was trained to look for something that had similar features to the example image. This enabled the model to generalize from a single dog image, to the "general concept of a dog," and quickly pick out other dogs it had not seen before, explains Zhang.

    The researchers tested how effective the new computer visual search model was by measuring the number of times the computer had to fixate on different locations in a scene before finding its target. "What surprises us is that by using our method, computers can search images as fast as humans, even when searching for objects they've never seen before," says Zhang. The computer was even as good as humans at finding Waldo.

    The team is now programming their model with a better understanding of context. For example, humans naturally understand that a cup is more likely to be sitting on a table than floating in the air. Once implemented, this should improve the model's efficiency even further, says Zhang, adding,
    "Waldo cannot hide anymore."
    Last edited by Carmody; 23rd February 2019 at 21:07.
    Interdimensional Civil Servant

  36. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Carmody For This Post:

    BMJ (25th February 2019), Flash (24th February 2019), onawah (24th February 2019), peterpam (25th February 2019), ramus (25th February 2019), Reinhard (12th October 2019), Valerie Villars (25th February 2019)

  37. Link to Post #19
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    5th January 2011
    Posts
    757
    Thanks
    2,006
    Thanked 4,793 times in 685 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    @Carmody , I have a thread on just this topic :

    China is putting surveillance cameras in plenty of schools

    https://www.abacusnews.com/digital-l...rticle/3000524

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Once again pay attention to the way this is worded ...

    Where US schools turn to facial recognition for safety, Chinese schools are doing it to manage students .. U.S. IS GOOD CHINA IS BAD ..
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Being watched by facial recognition cameras when walking around schools? That's not sci-fi anymore.

    ------------

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ras-on-planes-

  38. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to ramus For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (25th February 2019), Flash (24th February 2019), peterpam (25th February 2019), Reinhard (12th October 2019), Tintin (25th February 2019)

  39. Link to Post #20
    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    22nd January 2011
    Location
    From 100 Mile House ;-)
    Language
    English
    Age
    45
    Posts
    7,757
    Thanks
    24,897
    Thanked 32,274 times in 6,946 posts

    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    Quote Posted by peterpam (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    There's a lot wrong with that OP article.

    There's a massive conflation of all sorts of assumptions and speculations being presented as fact.

    What I am seeing is China cracking down on tax evaders and not letting them leave the country -- USA does the exact same thing.
    Banning your travel from not walking you dog with a leash isn't something that actually happened to anyone.

    That aside, lumping all criminal activities together into a "credit" system though is obviously going to be rife with issues. That's the only real story here.
    I don't think anyone believes you are not getting to travel for a dog walking citation...
    That's why I think its a crappy article -- attempting to conflate things to make x look like Y to garner the expected emotional reaction. What looks like Ramus' own addition (the first line) doesn't seem to be helping that either.

    -----

    Back to the topic ...
    The "American" version of this social credit system would be more casual, and look more like the episode of Black Mirror called "Nosedive" -- we are already halfway there ... its a pretty good episode.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5497778/?ref_=ttep_ep1
    "A woman desperate to boost her social media score hits the jackpot when she's invited to a swanky wedding, but the trip doesn't go as planned. "
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

  40. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DeDukshyn For This Post:

    peterpam (25th February 2019), ramus (25th February 2019)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts