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Thread: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

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    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    It's a crappy article, that's the point. This shows that the media is a propaganda machine.

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    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by peterpam (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    There's a lot wrong with that OP article.

    There's a massive conflation of all sorts of assumptions and speculations being presented as fact.

    What I am seeing is China cracking down on tax evaders and not letting them leave the country -- USA does the exact same thing.
    Banning your travel from not walking you dog with a leash isn't something that actually happened to anyone.

    That aside, lumping all criminal activities together into a "credit" system though is obviously going to be rife with issues. That's the only real story here.
    I don't think anyone believes you are not getting to travel for a dog walking citation...
    That's why I think its a crappy article -- attempting to conflate things to make x look like Y to garner the expected emotional reaction. What looks like Ramus' own addition (the first line) doesn't seem to be helping that either.

    -----

    Back to the topic ...
    The "American" version of this social credit system would be more casual, and look more like the episode of Black Mirror called "Nosedive" -- we are already halfway there ... its a pretty good episode.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5497778/?ref_=ttep_ep1
    "A woman desperate to boost her social media score hits the jackpot when she's invited to a swanky wedding, but the trip doesn't go as planned. "
    that was a very good episode. I have worked for a woman who has a management style that i would call the "dysney management: be nice at all cost, as long as you smile and everybody likes you" you were fine. No complaints towards you, no frowning from anybody towards you, you had to be the perfect social butterfly, not important if you had substance or not.

    It was literally choking.

    whatever China or the USA is doing in a slow motion or an obvious one towards this direction, it will be choking for the people, for creativity, for analysis of situations, name it.

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    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    Nosedive episode of Black Mirror was the best viewing ever. And yes, what is happening in China is just a foreshadowing of what is to come here.

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    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    Quote Posted by ramus (here)
    @Carmody , I have a thread on just this topic :

    China is putting surveillance cameras in plenty of schools

    https://www.abacusnews.com/digital-l...rticle/3000524

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Once again pay attention to the way this is worded ...

    Where US schools turn to facial recognition for safety, Chinese schools are doing it to manage students .. U.S. IS GOOD CHINA IS BAD ..
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Being watched by facial recognition cameras when walking around schools? That's not sci-fi anymore.

    ------------

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ras-on-planes-
    very good point!

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    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by peterpam (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    There's a lot wrong with that OP article.

    There's a massive conflation of all sorts of assumptions and speculations being presented as fact.

    What I am seeing is China cracking down on tax evaders and not letting them leave the country -- USA does the exact same thing.
    Banning your travel from not walking you dog with a leash isn't something that actually happened to anyone.

    That aside, lumping all criminal activities together into a "credit" system though is obviously going to be rife with issues. That's the only real story here.
    I don't think anyone believes you are not getting to travel for a dog walking citation...
    That's why I think its a crappy article -- attempting to conflate things to make x look like Y to garner the expected emotional reaction. What looks like Ramus' own addition (the first line) doesn't seem to be helping that either.

    -----

    Back to the topic ...
    The "American" version of this social credit system would be more casual, and look more like the episode of Black Mirror called "Nosedive" -- we are already halfway there ... its a pretty good episode.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5497778/?ref_=ttep_ep1
    "A woman desperate to boost her social media score hits the jackpot when she's invited to a swanky wedding, but the trip doesn't go as planned. "
    You are right about the American version. I have watched the episode "Nose Dive". Culturally we are so primed to do that. Most people have their phones in their hands and we have been conditioned to rate all kinds of things. Now all we need is a bit of trans humanism or some amped up contact lenses and we'll be ready to go.Look at the way some people are focused on how many "likes" or how many followers or subscribers they have, equating that with acceptance, friendship and popularity. Maybe even using it as cheap substitute for friends, family and real acceptance. That is just a stones throw from what our social credit system will look like. The concept of absorbing the masses in rating each interaction and being consumed with a score which will effect your life at every level would be the most compelling way to keep the masses distracted, a modern day bread and circus approach.
    Last edited by peterpam; 25th February 2019 at 13:15.

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    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    From https://infowars.com/trump-administr...-can-buy-a-gun
    4 Sept, 2019

    Trump Administration Considering Social Credit Score System to Determine Who Can Buy a Gun

    The Trump administration is considering launching a social credit score-style system in coordination with Big Tech that would use spy data collected from Amazon, Google and Apple devices to determine whether or not an individual can own a gun.

    “The proposal is part of an initiative to create a Health Advanced Research Projects Agency (HARPA), which would be located inside the Health and Human Services Department,” reports the Daily Caller. “The new agency would have a separate budget and the president would be responsible for appointing its director.”

    HARPA would employ “breakthrough technologies with high specificity and sensitivity for early diagnosis of neuropsychiatric violence,” including Apple Watches, Amazon Echo and Google Home.
    In other words, data collected from devices that spy on private conversations and closely monitor user behavior would be used to strip Americans of their fundamental rights.

    “Though the proposal is starting as a voluntary data collection scheme allegedly aimed at finding warning signs of mental illness, we all know so-called “voluntary” government programs often become mandatory at the drop of a hat,” comments Chris Menahan.

    According to the Washington Post, Trump has reacted “very positively” to the idea.

    The full scope of the program is chilling and would provide Big Tech with an easy excuse to formally impose the total neuro-surveillance of citizens via their smart phone and home assistant devices, something that has already been occurring surreptitiously for years.

    One wonders if Trump has any idea of the slippery slope this would entail, or whether he was sold on the idea because Ivanka cried.

    The proposal bears some similarities to Communist China’s social credit score system, where citizens’ behavior is tightly surveilled and then met with rewards or punishments.

    As we reported last month, the Chinese government bragged about preventing 2.5 million “discredited entities” from purchasing plane tickets and 90,000 people from buying high speed train tickets in the month of July alone.

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    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    Jon Rappoport $0.02:

    Psychiatry in charge of gun control: utter disaster

    by Jon Rappoport
    Sep5 , 2019

    During the reign of Barack Obama, mass shootings prompted a White House declaration that community mental health centers would be created across America, in order to spot and treat persons before they committed violent acts. Now, under Trump, we are seeing a similar reaction, with a twist.

    The Daily Caller, Aug 22, 2019: “Trump Admin Is Considering Using Amazon Echo And Apple Watch To Determine If Citizens Should Own A Gun”
    “The Trump administration is considering a proposal that would use Google, Amazon and Apple to collect data on users who exhibit characteristics of mental illness that could lead to violent behavior, The Washington Post reported Thursday.”

    “The proposal is part of an initiative to create a Health Advanced Research Projects Agency (HARPA), which would be located inside the Health and Human Services Department, the report notes, citing sources inside the administration. The new agency would have a separate budget and the president would be responsible for appointing its director.”

    “HARPA would develop ‘breakthrough technologies with high specificity and sensitivity for early diagnosis of neuropsychiatric violence,’ according to a copy of the proposal. ‘A multi-modality solution, along with real-time data analytics, is needed to achieve such an accurate diagnosis’.”

    “The document lists several technologies that could be employed to help collect information, including Apple Watches, Amazon Echo and Google Home. Geoffrey Ling, the lead scientific adviser on HARPA, told reporters Thursday the plan would require enormous amounts of data and ‘scientific rigor.’”
    Translation:
    Use all available resources to spy on Americans; and by deploying psychiatric definitions of mental disorders, somehow intercede before potentially violent individuals can legally obtain a weapon. Whether or not you favor gun control, creating this new federal agency would be on the order of injecting poisons in people to prevent poisoning.
    Why? Because some of the most popular psychiatric drugs, given for “mental disorders,” cause people to go over the edge and commit violent acts, including murder. Once diagnosed, an uninformed person is at the mercy of psychiatrists who refuse to admit what their drugs are creating.

    NOTE: Withdrawing from the drugs without expert supervision can result in effects which are even worse than those resulting from taking the drugs.

    Here is an excerpt from my 1999 white paper, “Why Do They Do It? School shootings Across America.”:

    [...]

    Full article: https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2019...tter-disaster/


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    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    Where Eyes Wide Shut Meets Social Credit Scores

    This isn't about their behavior, it's about the fact that they are building tools to scrutinize, judge, and literally rank and score the behavior of others in a system that will increasingly have real world consequences... and who are they to judge??

    Actually, it is about their behavior, their "Eyes Wide Shut" behavior as well as their ability to determine and judge the behavior of others by completely different rules.

    Last edited by Franny; 6th September 2019 at 07:28.
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    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    Inside China's High-Tech Dystopia
    Bloomberg
    Premiered Jan 24, 2019

    In part three of Hello World Shenzhen, Bloomberg Businessweek’s Ashlee Vance heads out into a city where you can't use cash or credit cards, only your smartphone, where AI facial-recognition software instantly spots and tickets jaywalkers, and where at least one factory barely needs people. This is the society that China's government and leading tech companies are racing to make a reality, with little time to question which advancements are net positives for the rest of us.

    Part One - Inside China's Future Factory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLmaI...

    Part Two - China's High Stakes Robot Wars https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrhvZ... https://www.bloomberg.com/hello-world
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    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    If we don't think that people can be caught up in fearful toleration and even promotion of human rights abuse against neighbors, IMO we are hugely naive. IMO we can easily see the end result but can often miss the slow steps that would allow the cooperation necessary for a government to act against its citizens.

    When a group of people are scapegoated (seen as the enemy, the subverting influence, the source of the social ills experienced), then IMO all bets are off as to how far persecution can expand.....









    Quote Human rights activists are calling for the immediate closure of what they label as re-education camps in the Chinese province of Xinjiang. About a million Uighurs, Kazakhs, and Kyrgyz people are believed to be held there and tortured, including a Kazakh national arrested while on a visit to his Uighur mother in China. Since being released, he has been sharing his story.


    Quote China's Uighur minority shackled by digital technology as thousands are detained for 'vocational training'
    People are being imprisoned without trial and placed in secretive detention camps for alleged political crimes

    Gerry Shih
    Sunday 17 December 2017
    Nobody knows what happened to the Uighur student after he returned to China from Egypt and was taken away by police.

    Not his village neighbours in China's far west, who haven't seen him in months. Not his former classmates, who fear Chinese authorities beat him to death.

    Not his mother, who lives in a two-story house at the far end of a country road, alone behind walls bleached by the desert sun. She opened the door one afternoon for an unexpected visit by AP reporters, who showed her a picture of a handsome young man posing in a park, one arm in the wind.

    "Yes, that's him," she said as tears began streaming down her face. "This is the first time I've heard anything of him in seven months. What happened?"

    "Is he dead or alive?"

    The student's friends think he joined the thousands — possibly tens of thousands — of people, rights groups and academics estimate, who have been spirited without trial into secretive detention camps for alleged political crimes that range from having extremist thoughts to merely travelling or studying abroad. The mass disappearances, beginning the past year, are part of a sweeping effort by Chinese authorities to use detentions and data-driven surveillance to impose a digital police state in the region of Xinjiang and over its Uighurs, a 10-million strong, Turkic-speaking Muslim minority that China says has been influenced by Islamic extremism.

    Along with the detention camps, unprecedented levels of police blanket Xinjiang's streets. Cutting-edge digital surveillance systems track where Uighurs go, what they read, who they talk to and what they say. And under an opaque system that treats practically all Uighurs as potential terror suspects, Uighurs who contact family abroad risk questioning or detention.

    The campaign has been led by Chen Quanguo, a Chinese Communist Party official, who was promoted in 2016 to head Xinjiang after subduing another restive region — Tibet. Chen vowed to hunt down Uighur separatists blamed for attacks that have left hundreds dead, saying authorities would "bury terrorists in the ocean of the people's war and make them tremble."

    Through rare interviews with Uighurs who recently left China, a review of government procurement contracts and unreported documents, and a trip through southern Xinjiang, the AP pieced together a picture of Chen's war that's ostensibly rooting out terror — but instead instilling fear.

    Most of the more than a dozen Uighurs interviewed for this story spoke on condition of anonymity for fear that Chinese authorities would punish them or their family members. The AP is withholding the student's name and other personal information to protect people who fear government retribution.

    Chen and the Xinjiang regional government did not respond to repeated requests for comment. But China's government describes its Xinjiang security policy as a ‘strike hard’ campaign that's necessary following a series of attacks in 2013 and 2014, including a mass knifing in a train station that killed 33. A Hotan city propaganda official, Bao Changhui, told the AP: "If we don't do this, it will be like several years ago — hundreds will die."

    China also says the crackdown is only half the picture. It points to decades of heavy economic investment and cultural assimilation programmes and measures like preferential college admissions for Uighurs.

    Officials say the security is needed now more than ever because Uighur militants have been fighting alongside Islamic extremists in Syria. But Uighur activists and international human rights groups argue that repressive measures are playing into the hands of the likes of al-Qaida, which has put out Uighur-language recruiting videos condemning Chinese oppression.

    "So much hate and desire for revenge are building up," said Rukiye Turdush, a Uighur activist in Canada. "How does terrorism spread? When people have nowhere to run."

    The government has referred to its detention program as ‘vocational training,’ but its main purpose appears to be indoctrination. A memo published online by the Xinjiang human resources office described cities, including Korla, beginning ‘free, completely closed-off, militarised’ training sessions in March that last anywhere from 3 months to 2 years.

    Uighurs study Mandarin, law, ethnic unity, de-radicalisation, patriotism and abide by the ‘five togethers’ — live, do drills, study, eat and sleep together.

    In a rare state media report about the centres, a provincial newspaper quoted a farmer who said after weeks of studying inside he could spot the telltale signs of religious extremism by how a person dressed or behaved and also profess the Communist Party's good deeds. An instructor touted their "gentle, attentive" teaching methods and likened the centres to a boarding school dorm.

    But in Korla, the institutions appeared more daunting, at least from the outside. The city had three or four well-known centres with several thousand students combined, said a 48-year-old local resident from the Han ethnic majority. One centre the AP visited was, in fact, labelled a jail. Another was downtown on a street sealed off by rifle-toting police. A third centre, the local Han resident said, was situated on a nearby military base.

    While forced indoctrination has been reported throughout Xinjiang, its reach has been felt far beyond China's borders.

    In April, calls began trickling into a Uighur teacher's academy in Egypt, vague but insistent. Uighur parents from a few towns were pleading with their sons and daughters to return to China, but they wouldn't say why.

    "The parents kept calling, crying on the phone," the teacher said.

    Chinese authorities had extended the scope of the program to Uighur students abroad. And Egypt, once a sanctuary for Uighurs to study Islam, began deporting scores of Uighurs to China.

    Sitting in a restaurant outside Istanbul where many students had fled, four recounted days of panic as they hid from Egyptian and Chinese authorities. One jumped out a window running from police. Another slept in a car for a week. Many hid with Egyptian friends.

    "We were mice, and the police were cats," said a student from Urumqi, Xinjiang's regional capital.

    All who returned were intensely grilled about what they did in Egypt and viewed as potential terror suspects, the students said. Many were believed held in the new indoctrination camps, while some were sentenced to longer prison sentences.

    The young man from Korla rarely went out in the two years he spent studying Islam in Egypt. He played some soccer — a beloved sport among Uighurs — but wasn't particularly athletic or popular.

    Instead, he kept to himself in an apartment that he kept fastidiously clean, steeped in his studies at the revered Al Azhar University, the 1,000-year-old seat of learning in Sunni Islam. He freely discussed Quranic verses with his Uighur friends but mostly avoided politics, one friend said. He spoke of one day pursuing a PhD in comparative religion.

    "He had big dreams," said the friend who is now hiding in Turkey to avoid being sent to China. "He wanted to be a religious scholar, which he knew was impossible in China, but he also wanted to stay close to his mother in Korla."

    He was fluent in Arabic and but also in Chinese. When they huddled around a smartphone to watch a Taiwanese tear-jerker about a boy separated from his mother, he would be the one weeping first.

    When homesickness got to him, he would tell his friends about how his mother doted on him, and about Korla and the big house he grew up in. And when he gets married, God willing, he would say, he'd start a family in that house, too.

    "If my wife doesn't agree, then we don't marry," he declared.

    He returned to China when he was called back in 2016 and taken away in February, according to three students and a teacher from Cairo. They say they heard from reliable sources in China — but cannot prove — that he died in detention.

    Southern Xinjiang, the vast desert basin from where many of the students came, is one of the most heavily policed places on earth.

    Deep in the desert's southern rim, the oasis town of Hotan is a microcosm of how Chen, the Xinjiang party boss, has combined fearsome optics with invisible policing.

    He has ordered police depots with flashing lights and foot patrols be built every 500 meters (yards) – a total of 1,130, according to the Hotan government. The AP saw cavalcades of more than 40 armoured vehicles including full personnel carriers rumble down city boulevards. Police checkpoints on every other block stop cars to check identification and smartphones for religious content.

    Shopkeepers in the thronging bazaar don mandatory armoured vests and helmets to sell hand-pulled noodles, tailored suits and baby clothes.

    Xinjiang's published budget data from January to August shows public security spending this year is on track to increase 50 per cent from 2016 to roughly 45 billion yuan ($6.8 billion) after rising 40 per cent a year ago. It's quadrupled since 2009, a watershed year when a Uighur riot broke out in Xinjiang, leaving nearly 200 members of China's Han ethnic majority dead, and security began to ratchet up.

    Adrian Zenz, a researcher at the European School of Culture and Theology who tracks Chinese public security staffing levels based on its recruiting ads, says Xinjiang is now hiring 40 times more police per capita than populous Guangdong Province.

    "Xinjiang has very likely exceeded the level of police density seen in East Germany just before its collapse," Zenz said. "What we've seen in the last 12 to 14 months is unprecedented."

    But much of the policing goes unseen.

    To enter the Hotan bazaar, shoppers first pass through metal detectors and then place their national identification cards on a reader while having their face scanned.

    The facial scanner is made by China Electronics Technology Group (CETC), a state-owned defence contractor that has spearheaded China's fast-growing field of predictive policing with Xinjiang as its test bed. The AP found 27 CETC bids for Xinjiang government contracts, including one soliciting a facial recognition system for facilities and centres in Hotan Prefecture.

    Hours after visiting the Hotan bazaar, AP reporters were stopped outside a hotel by a police officer who said the public security bureau had been remotely tracking the reporters' movements.

    "There are tens of thousands of cameras here," said the officer, who gave his name as Tushan. "The moment you took your first step in this city, we knew."

    The government's tracking efforts have extended to vehicles, genes, and even voices. In February, authorities in Xinjiang's Bayingol prefecture, which includes Korla, required every car to install GPS trackers for real-time monitoring. And since late last year, Xinjiang authorities have required health checks to collect the population's DNA samples. In May, a regional police official told the AP that Xinjiang had purchased $8.7 million in DNA scanners — enough to analyse several million samples a year.

    In one year, Kashgar Prefecture, which has a population of 4 million, has carried out mandatory checks for practically its entire population, said Yang Yanfeng, deputy director of Kashgar's propaganda department. She characterised the check-ups as a public health success story, not a security measure.

    "We take comprehensive blood tests for the good of the people, not just record somebody's height and weight," Yang said. "We find out health issues in citizens even they didn't know about."

    A biometric data collection program appears to have been formalised last year under "Document No. 44," a regional public security directive to "comprehensively collect three-dimensional portraits, voiceprints, DNA and fingerprints." The document's full text remains secret, but the AP found at least three contracts referring to the 2016 directive in recent purchase orders for equipment such as microphones and voice analysers.

    Meiya Pico, a security and surveillance company, has won 11 bids in the last six months alone from local Xinjiang jurisdictions. It won a joint bid with a DNA analysis company for 4 million yuan ($600,000) in Kargilik and has sold software that automatically scans smartphones for "terror-related pictures and videos" to Yarkent.

    Meiya and CETC declined comment.

    To monitor Xinjiang's population, China has also turned to a familiar low-tech tactic: recruiting the masses.

    When a Uighur businessman from Kashgar completed a six-month journey to flee China and landed in the United States with his family in January, he was initially ecstatic. He tried calling home, something he hadn't done in months to spare his family unwanted police questioning.

    His mother told him his four brothers and his father were in prison because he fled China. She was spared only because she was frail.

    Since 2016, local authorities had assigned ten families including theirs to spy on one another in a new system of collective monitoring, and those families had also been punished because he escaped. Members from each were sent to re-education centres for three months, he told the AP.

    "It's worse than prison," he said. "At least in prison you know what's happening to you. But there you never know when you get accused. It could be anytime."

    A document obtained by U.S.-based activists and reviewed by the AP show Uighur residents in the Hebei Road West neighbourhood in Urumqi, the regional capital, being graded on a 100-point scale. Those of Uighur ethnicity are automatically docked 10 points. Being aged between 15 and 55, praying daily, or having a religious education, all result in 10 point deductions.

    In the final columns, each Uighur resident's score is tabulated and checked ‘trusted,’ ‘ordinary,’ or ‘not trusted.’ Activists say they anecdotally hear about Uighurs with low scores being sent to indoctrination.

    At the neighbourhood police office, a woman who gave her surname as Tao confirmed that every community committee in Urumqi, not just Hebei Road West, needed to conduct similar assessments. She said there were no statistics on how many residents had been deemed ‘not trusted,’ nor were there official procedures to deal with them.

    "What is happening is every single Uighur is being considered a suspect of not just terrorism but also political disloyalty," said Maya Wang, a researcher at Human Rights Watch who is studying how Chinese police are using technology to track political dissidents as well as Uighurs.

    This month, Xinjiang announced it would require every government employee in the region to move into a Uighur home for a week to teach families about ideology and avoiding extremism.

    What pains most, Uighurs abroad say, is the self-imposed barrier of silence that separates them from loved ones, making efforts to say happy birthday or find out whether a relative is detained risky.

    When Salih Hudayar, an American Uighur graduate student, last called his 70-something grandfather this summer, he spoke in cryptic but reassuring tones.

    "Our phones will not work anymore," his grandfather said. "So, don't try calling and don't worry about us. We'll be fine as long as you're all fine."

    He later heard from a cousin in Kyrgyzstan that his grandfather had been sent to re-education.

    A Uighur student who moved to Washington following the crackdown this summer said that after his move, his wife, a government worker still in Urumqi, messaged to say the police would show up at her home in 20 minutes. She had to say goodbye: after that she would delete him permanently from her contacts list.

    A month later he received calls on WhatsApp from a man who introduced himself as Ekber, a Uighur official from the international cooperation office of the Xinjiang regional public security bureau, who wanted him to work for them in the U.S. — and warned him against saying no.

    "If you're not working for us then you're working for someone else. That's not a road you want to take," he snapped.

    A week after that, he couldn't help himself placing one last call home. His daughter picked up.

    "Mom is sick but she doesn't want me to speak to you. Goodbye," she said.

    For the past year, Chen's war has meant mass detentions, splintered families, lives consumed by uncertainty. It has meant that a mother sometimes can't get an answer a simple question about her son: is he dead or alive?

    A short drive from Korla, beyond peach plantations that stretch for miles, the al-Azhar student's mother still lives in the big house that he loved. When the AP arrived unannounced, she said she had not received any court notices or reasons about why her son and his father were suddenly taken months earlier. She declined an interview.

    "I want to talk, I want to know," she said through a translator. "But I'm too afraid."

    AP reporters were later detained by police, interrogated for 11 hours, and accused of "illegal reporting" in the area without seeking prior permission from the Korla government.

    "The subjects you're writing about do not promote positive energy," a local propaganda official explained.

    Five villagers said they knew authorities had taken away the young student; one said he was definitely alive, the others weren't sure.

    When asked, local police denied he existed at all.


    Video showing hundreds of shackled, blindfolded prisoners in China is 'genuine'
    Human rights groups say China is holding one million people, mostly ethnic Uighurs, at detention camps - a charge Beijing denies.
    By Deborah Haynes, foreign affairs editor

    Saturday 21 September 2019 07:28, UK

    Online footage purporting to show hundreds of blindfolded and shackled prisoners in a mostly Muslim region of China is believed to be authentic, a European security source has told Sky News.

    The detainees are thought to be from China's minority Uighur Muslims, the source said on Friday.

    Human rights organisations accuse China of holding one million people, mostly ethnic Uighurs, at sprawling detention camps in Xinjiang province - a charge Beijing strongly denies.

    The footage, posted anonymously on Tuesday on Twitter and YouTube, shows lines of men, heads shaved, hands bound behind their back, sitting in lines on the floor or being moved by guards at a station in the city of Korla in Xinjiang, northwest China.

    The European security source said: "We've examined the footage and believe it to be genuine.

    "It shows up to 600 prisoners being moved; they're shackled together, have shaved heads, are blindfolded and have their hands locked behind their backs. This is typical of the way the Chinese move this type of prisoner."

    The images were thought to have been taken earlier this year, the source added.
    Last edited by Delight; 21st September 2019 at 16:42.

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    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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    Exclamation Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    Chinese Citizens must pass Mass Facial-Recognition Test to use the internet for A.I. 'Social Credit System': December 1st 2019
    ~no need2follow anyone only consider to broaden (y)our horizon of possibilities
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    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    Gaining more acceptance in a city near you under the guise of “multiculturalism” and “diversity”.

    Philadelphia Raises Communist China’s Flag at City Hall to Celebrate Diversity

    By Pluralist | October 8, 2019

    Philadelphia raised the flag of China at city hall last week to honor the 70th anniversary of the founding of the People’s Republic of China.






    Mayor Jim Kenney announced last Tuesday the observation of “The People’s Republic of China Flag-raising Day,” according to Xinhua, China’s official state-run press agency.

    The City of Philadelphia released photos of the event, showing a small crowd of attendees watching as the flag of China is raised.

    The Epoch Times reported that local community groups had strongly opposed the raising of the Chinese flag, viewing it as an endorsement of the communist nation’s oppressive regime.

    “Raising this flag, a symbol of the birth of the Chinese Communist Party on October 1, 1949 is only celebrating tyranny, repression, and death,” said one local resident in an email to Kenney, who like a large majority of the Philadelphia City Council is a Democrat.

    The mayor’s office told The Epoch Times in an emailed statement that “the flag raisings are not a sign of support for any specific government, political party, or movement.”

    “Rather, they are an opportunity … for people with shared heritage to celebrate their backgrounds and experiences,” the office said.

    In an opinion article published in The Philadelphia Inquirer, columnist Christine M. Flowers criticized the city’s justification for raising China’s flag “as part of a program devoted to multiculturalism and diversity.”

    “Raising the flag of a brutal totalitarian regime does not honor the immigrants whose parents and grandparents were brutalized by the government it represents,” Flowers wrote. “Raising that flag does not honor the humanity of those Chinese refugees, prisoners of conscience, and victims of persecution who I have met in my capacity as an asylum advocate. Raising that flag is an abomination.”

    Flowers said she’d written the mayor’s office to protest the event.

    The office responded with the same statement provided to The Epoch Times. And Flowers didn’t buy it.

    “Sorry, but it’s hard to understand how raising the Communist flag of China is not meant to support the Communist regime of China,” she wrote.

    “Why not just announce a parade down the Parkway to commemorate the birth of Stalin in December? Or maybe raise the swastika at City Hall to commemorate Jan. 30, 1933, the day Hitler was made Chancellor of Germany?”
    "Rage, rage against the dying of the light." -D. Thomas

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    Default Re: China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here)

    This is very very interesting, and well worth the hour for those who genuinely want to understand all this better.

    The panel are self-admittedly a panel of debunkers of some of the 'hysteria and hype' (this is my paraphrase of what I think they think).

    But before we all delete the video in disgust, they all know a LOT about China, and certainly far, far more than I do or probably most people reading this post now. So maybe they deserve a hearing. They speak having gathered a lot of information.

    I emerged
    1. More knowledgeable.
    2. More confused.
    Their summary (in my own words) is that
    • It's a projection of western fears on to a foreign scapegoat/target
    • The social credit system isn't regarded as very important by most Chinese, and many don't even know a lot about it
    • The way the system works is that it results from punishment (legal transgression), and doesn't really cause punishment
    • The Chinese context in which this needs to be understood is that most Chinese trust their government with data, but don't trust corporations with data.
    These aren't just their own casual opinions — they've been to China to do the research.

    My provisional position:
    This is still the [maybe very] thin end of a potentially huge wedge: like 1984 lite.
    Again: anyone seriously interested in this issue might learn some things from hearing the discussion.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 11th October 2019 at 22:13.

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