France backs down, delays tax increases after Paris riots

[Flash]

Posted by ramus (here)
No he's a French Canadian ............

And working at the embassy or for the Quebec delegation or for a large firm as an expert?

For your info, although we do have social protection and medicare in French Canada, for the remaining thnking we are thoroughly North Americans and apart from the social coverage, we are pretty much brainwashed in the same manner with the same belief systems as the Americans, our southern neighbors. So my comments stand

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by onawah (here)
Not all of us!

Posted by Flash (here)
And your lesson, I would spell it differently: persist not helping the sick, the underdog of any kind and the children, this is America and they are proud of it

I know, talking about your general policies and the habitual refusal to admit there can be better systems for all

[RunningDeer]

Posted by Flash (here)
Hervé who is French and lives in France has been posting about this steadily on the thread Ça chauffe

Hervé's thread: Ça Chauffe!

[Hervé]

Why France’s ‘yellow vest’ protesters are rioting in Paris and across the country

By Josh K. Elliott

National Online Journalist, International Global News

French President Emmanuel Macron returned home from the G20 summit Sunday to find Paris engulfed in chaos, amid the largest protest to hit the city in a decade and the third in as many weeks.

Thousands of people rioted in the streets of France’s capital over the weekend, many of them wearing reflective yellow vests as they torched cars, looted stores and tagged the iconic Arc de Triomphe with graffiti declaring: “The yellow vests will triumph.”

Smaller protests continued into Monday.

Cleanup operations continue under the message, “The Yellow Vests will Triumph” written on the Arc de Triomphe, in Paris, France, Dec. 2, 2018. REUTERS/Benoit Tessier

The nationwide protests have been escalating since Nov. 17, amid growing anger over rising fuel taxes and the high cost of living. The protests have already started taking a toll on the French economy, with hotel reservations dipping, retailers reporting lower sales and some gas stations running out of fuel because resupply trucks can’t get past protester blockades.

“The impact is severe and ongoing,” France’s Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said on Monday.

Police say at least 110 people, including 20 officers, were injured and 224 individuals were arrested over the weekend. They estimated 75,000 protesters hit the streets across France on Saturday, including 5,500 in Paris.

A view shows a barricade with police forces and protesters wearing yellow vests, a symbol of a French drivers protest against higher diesel taxes, during clashes as part of a demonstration near the Place de l’etoile in Paris, France, December 1, 2018. ELIOT BLONDET/ABACAPRESS.COM

President Macron promised on Sunday that those who attacked police will be “held responsible for their acts.” He vowed to meet with his critics, but did not back down from his stance on the fuel taxes.

Three people have died and hundreds have been injured since the protests started.

Who are the ‘yellow vest’ protesters?
The “yellow vest” movement started online as a grassroots rebellion against higher fuel prices, but it has morphed into a wide-ranging outlet for middle-class anger over the high cost of living. It reportedly cuts across different age groups and geographical regions, although it’s primarily composed of blue-collar workers living outside big cities.



It has no single leader or slant on the political spectrum, and appears to include members from the far-right and the far-left, police say.

Their uniforms are the yellow vests that French citizens don when their vehicles have broken down at the side of the road — a symbolic outfit meant to show that they are motorists in distress.

Cars burn as protesters wearing yellow vests (gilets jaunes) clash with riot police near the Arc de Triomphe as part of a demonstration over high fuel prices on the Champs Elysee in Paris, France, 01 December 2018. EPA/YOAN VALAT

French paramedics and students joined the anti-government rallies on Monday. Ambulances blocked a bridge leading to the National Assembly and students blocked dozens of high schools across the country, according to French media reports.

Seven in 10 French citizens support the “yellow vests,” according to a Harris Interactive opinion poll conducted after Saturday’s riots. Copycat protesters have also emerged in Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands.

Macron has met with his opponents in government, but the yellow vests have not put forward a leader of their own to discuss their demands.

What are they protesting against?
Macron’s government has imposed several climate change-related fuel taxes in recent months — including another slated to take effect in January. Macron says the taxes are meant to encourage drivers to exchange diesel-fuelled vehicles for more environmentally-friendly models, but many middle-class French citizens say the taxes are squeezing them to the breaking point.

A supporter of Marseille waves a flag representing a giant yellow jacket, in solidarity with the movement of the demonstrators, called yellow jackets, who protest against the rising of fuel taxes, during the League One soccer match between Marseille and Reims at the Velodrome stadium, in Marseille, southern France, Sunday, Dec. 2, 2018. AP Photo/Claude Paris

The price of diesel in France has gone up by about 20 per cent over the past year to approximately 1.49 euros (CAD$2.23) per litre, according to the website Carbu. Global oil prices have also crept up over the last year.

The price of fuel is slated to increase by approximately 0.03 euros per litre of gas, and 0.06 euros cents per litre of diesel, under the new French taxes coming into effect on Jan. 1.

The “yellow vest” protesters want Macron to freeze all planned taxes on fuel. Many have also called for him to resign.

Macron vowed last week to stick to his planned fuel taxes, which are part of France’s efforts to meet the targets it set under the 2015 Paris climate agreement.

Macron promised to make the environment a priority when he was elected 18 months ago, but his tax policies have alienated many in the middle class.

“Clearly, countries where inequalities are the highest are the ones where these kinds of pushbacks are most likely,” Francois Gemenne, a specialist in geopolitics at SciencesPo University in Paris, told Reuters.

Gemenne says environmental policies have already generated heavy backlash in other countries such as Italy, the United States and Britain. “I guess it’s one of the reasons why populist leaders tend to be very skeptical about climate change and environmental measures,” he said.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau‘s pro-environment policies have generated mixed responses across Canada. Some provinces, such as B.C., have embraced a tax on carbon, while others have railed against it.

In Ontario, for instance, voters booted out the provincial Liberals and elected a Progressive Conservative government under Doug Ford, who vowed to fight Trudeau’s proposed federal carbon tax. Ford also scrapped Ontario’s cap-and-trade program for carbon emissions.

Trudeau says 90 per cent of the revenue from his federal carbon tax will be redistributed to taxpayers.

Macron has pledged to use most of the money generated from his climate-change policies to tackle the national debt. His critics have accused him of being a president of the rich, after he cut taxes on wealthy companies in his first year in office, while reducing housing benefits and increasing social security levies.

Macron’s government expects to reduce the overall tax burden to 44.2 per cent of the national income next year, according to its 2019 budget released in September.

French citizens paid the highest tax compared to gross domestic product (GDP) in the European Union last year, at a rate of 48.4 per cent, according to data from the European Commission.

— With files from Reuters and the Associated Press
© 2018 Global News, a division of Corus Entertainment Inc.

=================================================

Macron has pledged to use most of the money generated from his climate-change policies to tackle the national debt.

Woalla... guess which Macron's buddy banker is gonna refill his coffers? ... thanks to the "Greens" à la Al Gore

[Hervé]

Woalla... guess which Macron's buddy banker is gonna refill his coffers? ... thanks to the "Greens" à la Al Gore.

Now, a word about Macron "backing down" (I have a beach resort for sale on Mars...):


Meet Emmanuel Macron – The Consummate Banker Puppet, Bizarre Elitist Creation

Michael Krieger | Posted Tuesday Apr 25, 2017 at 11:58 am

The last thing I ever wanted to do was write about France’s likely next president, Emmanuel Macron, but here we are. This post was inspired by a very telling Financial Times article sent to me by a reader, but we’ll get to that in a bit.

Most Americans paying attention to global affairs have some conception of his opponent, nationalist firebrand Marine Le Pen, but Macron is likely to be very much a black box. I hope today’s post changes that.

Any knowledge you may have about Macron probably comes from mainstream news outlets, which have been uniformly gushing about the socialist-centrist Rothschild protégé.

As an example, just take a look at the following title from a January article published at Foreign Policy.

You’d think this guy was the second coming or something. Naturally, the gushing continues beyond the title. Here are the first few paragraphs.

In some of his many previous lives, 39-year-old Emmanuel Macron has been a philosophy student, an investment banker, and a minister of economy. It is not surprising, then, in his current life as an independent candidate for the French presidency, he does not always speak like other candidates. And it’s not only the substance of his language that stands out but also, sometimes, his choice of language. Last week, in a speech at Berlin’s Humboldt University, Macron spoke in impeccable English on the imperative of giving Europe a chance.

And of giving the future a chance: Macron’s speech offered a powerful and convincing case that he is the last great French hope for a European future based on a common market and a common morality, a single currency and a singular commitment to the continent’s core values.

Though his immediate audience was Humboldt’s faculty and students, Macron was in fact addressing a far wider audience. He was seeking to mobilize French as well as German youths, and — in a reference to the program that allows EU citizens to study in other member states — the non-Erasmus as well as the Erasmus generations. Based on the audience’s response to his speech, and his surging poll numbers in France, Macron — despite not having the support of an established party, or perhaps becausehe doesn’t — is no longer the dark horse but instead the white knight for a growing number of French voters. However, what this particular knight promises, beyond verve and vitality, is not yet clear.

This author certainly isn’t holding back on the Macron infatuation. Within the first three paragraphs alone he refers to the man as “the last great French hope” and a “white knight.” Amazing.

But that’s not the most telling part of the above excerpts. I find it particularly remarkable that the authorpositions this manufactured candidate as some sort of outsider. Sure, he may not have the backing of an established political party, but those who do back him have far more power than that.

I came to this conclusion based on an extremely enlightening article published in the FT titled, Emmanuel Macron’s Rothschild Years Make Him an Easy Election Target. Based on the title, you’d think that the man merely had a normal, brief stint at the bank, but you’d be wrong. As you read, it becomes clear that he was groomed from day one by a Rothschild partner and ended up on a fast track like I’ve never seen before. But first, let’s examine the first two paragraphs of the article, which betrays the man’s intentions.

When Emmanuel Macron told friends in 2008 he was joining Rothschild, the prestigious investment bank, the then 30-year-old civil servant was warned it could scupper a future career in politics.

“You’re conscious that banking is not any kind of job? And Rothschild not any kind of bank?” said one friend to the man who, nine years later, would become frontrunner in France’s presidential election.

Contrary to media myths about a “white knight” who came out of nowhere to save France, this character has had his eye on high political office for at least a decade. Indeed, it appears Macron has been groomed by powerful financiers for a very long time. As the FT also notes:

The graduate of ENA, the elite school that breeds France’s future leaders, came recommended by powerful alumni of the institution, including François Henrot, a longtime Rothschild partner. But young bankers were not so impressed.

“He was the guy who would constantly say ‘thank you’,” a former colleague said. “He didn’t know what ebitda [earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation] was. He didn’t try to hide it. And instead of looking it up in a corporate finance book, he asked around, which was disarming.”

Yet it wasn’t just a Rothschild sponsor who took the young Macron under his wing…

What Mr Macron lacked in technical knowledge and jargon at first, he made up for with contacts in government, says Sophie Javary, head of BNP Paribas’ corporate finance in Europe, who was asked by Mr Henrot to coach Mr Macron in the first year.

This is straight up bizarre. It appears Macron was so important to banking interests they had to form a consortium of firms to all pitch in to help him out. Yet it gets stranger still.

On the Atos deal, Mr Macron “had a fairly junior role at the time — he would be asked to redo the financial models on Excel, the basics,” recalled an adviser. But a few days after the deal was announced, Mr Macron was made a partner. A few months later, he stunned colleagues and rivals by winning a role in Nestlé’s purchase of Pfizer’s infant food operations.

As someone who spent ten years on Wall Street, I can tell you with certainty that you don’t go from updating excel models at a junior level to partner overnight. Someone extraordinarily powerful was pulling all sorts of strings for this guy. There seems to be little doubt about this.

Further hints that Macron is a total manufactured elitist creation can be seen with the following.

At the bank, Mr Macron mastered the art of networking and navigated around the numerous conflicts of interest that arise in close-knit Parisian business circles, making good use of his connections as an Inspecteur des Finances — an elite corps of the very highest-ranking graduates from ENA.

In 2010, he advised, for free, the staff of Le Monde when the newspaper was put up for sale. Journalists at the daily started doubting his loyalty when they happened upon him in conversation with Mr Minc, who was representing a bidding consortium that the staff opposed. They did not know that it was Mr Minc, a fellow Inspecteur des Finances, who had helped the young Mr Macron secure his interview at Rothschild.

A media executive who was part of the same consortium recalled: “It wasn’t clear who Emmanuel worked for. He was around, trading intelligence, friends with everyone. It was smart, because he got to know everybody in the media world.”

Indeed, who does he work for? I’m sure the French people would like to know.

Meanwhile, Macron is like a conspiracy website’s wet dream. Not only was he groomed by Rothschild bankers, he was also a Bilderberg meeting attendee in 2014. Of course.

Incredibly enough, Macron’s personal life is just as bizarre. Wikipedia notes:

Raised in a non-religious family, he was baptized a Roman Catholic at his own request at age 12.

Impressive that the man figured out religion at such a young age, but what’s even more bizarre is what he did three years later. At 15, shortly after discovering Jesus, he decided to seduce his high school teacher who was 24 years older and married with three children. I’m not in the habit of quoting Slate, but an article on this topic published there was excellent. We learn:

At 39, Emmanuel Macron would be France’s youngest-ever president. His wife, Brigitte Trogneux, just turned 64. The two met when Macron was 15 years old; Trogneux was his high-school drama teacher. After putting off the young Macron’s advances for a while, Trogneux eventually divorced her husband—the father of her three children—and moved to Paris to be with Macron, who’d left his hometown to finish high school in the capital city. They married more than a decade after meeting, in 2007.

Media accounts of their once-illicit relationship have offered it as evidence of Macron’s daring personality and willingness to break with tradition, qualities that helped make him a presidential frontrunner without a political party or any experience in elected office. “Their love affair was the kind of audacious undertaking that has defined Mr. Macron’s life and career,” the New York Timesreports. “His sheer drive, his focus and his willingness to leapfrog in a country where most success is built step by step make him more like the entrepreneurs he admires than a typical politician.” The Associated Press writes that, “from his teenage romance with a teacher to his recent ambition to become president, Emmanuel Macron often is described as unconventional and tenacious.”

This is a strange way to frame a romantic relationship between a teenager and his 40-year-old teacher. If Macron were a young woman who’d seduced her male high-school teacher away from his wife and family, her determination and ultimate success would not be proffered as signs of her leadership skills, the beginning of a life as an effective politician. She would be cast as an opportunistic Jezebel with daddy issues who slept her way into every political role she got. If Macron were an ex-teacher who’d left his wife to be with a teenage student, we’d rightly cast doubt on his maturity and morals. Depending on the details of the case, I might think he should have lost his teaching job and wonder which combination of possible gross reasons caused him to reject women his own age.

Swap Macron and Trogneux’s gender again, and the story of a goal-oriented romancer would be spun as a conventional tale of an unhinged, desperate homewrecker. Conquering resistance through patient pursuit would, to most observers, seem like obsessed-stalker behavior coming from a young girl and sexual-predator behavior coming from an older man. Macron’s disregard of Trogneux’s initial rejection—and his dogged fixation on making her his girlfriend despite her marriage and his age—don’t ring such alarm bells because we’re far more used to seeing older men with way-younger women.

What’s most notable about the above is how corporate media such as The New York Times celebrates Macron’s less than savory behavior in his pursuit of Trogneux. It may not be fake news, but it certainly looks a lot like pro-Macron propaganda.


Finally, I’d like to end with the following tweet, which I think summarizes the situation.

Michael Krieger‏ @LibertyBlitz

Macron is like the fiat money of politicians. Created out of thin air to help bankers steal everything.

1:26 PM - 24 Apr 2017

The bottom line is Macron is a total fake. Indeed, he’s almost embarrassingly phony, but will it matter? My feeling is that he will probably win the May 7th runoff, but I don’t think the spread will be anywhere near as wide as everyone is predicting. I continue to think that it won’t be France, but more likely Italy, which will put the final nail in the EU coffin.

As always, we shall see.

[norman]

It was not the Paris "riots" . . . . That's what the MSM and government want you to think . . . watch these 2 videos.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=42-bT1F8dbw

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=sWMu4PiNzJ8

[norman]

A Fire hose/water cannon on a day like today looks very unpleasant.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Fn6YQ0YvFZo

[Frenchy]

Posted by norman (here)
A Fire hose/water cannon on a day like today looks very unpleasant.

And, we really have NO idea what Chemicals are used in the Water-Cannons...

At a minimum, ' Smart ' Detectable Chemicals, [ as used in Cash Transit Protection ]

By, as with the ' Paint - Ball ' type markers, these have a choice of chemicals,
such as Skin Irritators...

With NanoTech these days, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some element of
Biological Weapons, Influenza, Lyme, etc,,,

Or even mettalic's in conjunction with A.D.S...

[norman]

What They're Not Telling You About the Yellow Vests

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=MDAjEaFPnwY

[Wildshroom]

I don't agree with violence of any kind but at last, a heard voice. Violence aside, look what happens when we unite and say NO.

[Wildshroom]

Could not agree more brother. Well said! I am also a passionate soul. Same thing i have heard David Icke and many other researchers say.
When i talk to people about all of this they say something stupid like "well what can you do" it winds me up because as shown in France it is entirely possible!!
Mass non violent refusal to adhere to the ridiculous robbery and control we live through every day as a species. It is embarrassing. I will spread your video.

[norman]

Weaponised Bank Runs Incoming . . . .

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ias_0Hdv98A

[Dennis Leahy]

When it is all said and done, the very same malevolent overlords that are in control will still be in control.

The yellow vests are chasing the "effects", not the "cause."

The very best that will happen is a temporary change of the ways that the Rulers Rule.

The ONLY political target that will actually change governance is to attack and overturn the election system, rewriting the election laws so these same people (and their ilk) cannot even run for office. The people, the citizens, MUST take complete control of elections. Control of the election system is how the Rulers remain in control.

[norman]

I can't agree with your notion that the electoral process is so important to keeping the top crooks in control. The electoral process only furnishes the political circus.

The only thing, in my opinion, that will root out the top crooks, is a war against them, that we win. We have the military clout to round them all up. It's "politics" that's stopping us using it. Even if the electoral process was 100% clean, the voters wouldn't vote to round up the crooks.

The problem isn't politics, it's crime. Law enforcement is required not a cleaner political circus.

[Frenchy]

Posted by yelik (here)
If this was the UK the Government (HM Queen) would never bow to the pressure from the people - they would arrest the ring leaders and keep increasing police and military presence until the people give up

Just as they do with Brave Witness's such as Melanie Shaw > Lock them away in 21 Century ' Oubliettes'

https://www.ukcolumn.org/video/uk-co...ed-child-abuse

UKColumn.org Melanie Shaw - Held in Solitary Two Years + British Gov't Pedeophile & Establishment scared of a Woman...

[Deux Corbeaux]

Posted by ramus (here)
I just got off the phone from someone I trust, and is aware of the bigger picture in France. He made me see things a little different, rising the taxes increased fuel cost is a direct effect of the socialism that exists in the country , ... they want their cake and eat it too. They want their free stuff and not have to pay for it . I know this is not a popular position but it does show the conflict .... somebody has to pay for all the state sponsored programs. It will be hard to wean the citizens off the tit. Think about it, if your use to all the free stuff and then you are asked to pay for it I'd be mad too. That dependence is an addiction that is hard to break. Yes this was done to them by the PTB, it was a trick . There will be a lot of pain to break this cycle, there is blame on both sides,... wanting cradle to grave Security is highly desirable ... but it comes with a cost .... Lesson don't let Uncle Sam or any other Gov't become your tit .The weaning is tough.

French citizens paid the highest tax compared to gross domestic product (GDP) in the European Union last year, at a rate of 48.4 per cent, according to data from the European Commission.

Ramis, that high tax is to pay for all their “FREE STUFF”, as you call it......Sorry. No sponsoring .

Yes, in the European Social Democracies the rich pay more tax than the poor..... that’s called solidarity, something many American people don’t understand.

The wages in France are rather low, but with little or no costs for healthcare and education (which they payed for themselves through taxes), they used to be all right.
However, now fuel prices are going up immensely, together with many other prices and wages staying low, they just can’t cope anymore and they have started to revolt.

The difference between the US and France is that the American people fear the gouvernement and the French gouvernement fears the people.

Posted by ramus (here)
I just got off the phone from someone I trust, and is aware of the bigger picture in France.

Really?

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by norman (here)
I can't agree with your notion that the electoral process is so important to keeping the top crooks in control. The electoral process only furnishes the political circus.

The only thing, in my opinion, that will root out the top crooks, is a war against them, that we win. We have the military clout to round them all up. It's "politics" that's stopping us using it. Even if the electoral process was 100% clean, the voters wouldn't vote to round up the crooks.

The problem isn't politics, it's crime. Law enforcement is required not a cleaner political circus.

But, don't "we" need to be in a position of power to just "take out the crooks?"

You missed the point. Taking over the election system is not playing politics; it should actually be the end of politics (if the citizens that take over the election system are wise enough to eliminate political parties as part of rewriting all the election laws.) "Politics" is the kabuki theater used to fool the people into believing that we have representation - red and blue teams arguing over whose team gets to direct the most dollars into their war-profiteering affiliates and to zionist israel.

No one is going to take down the criminal ruling class by force - they control 99.9% of all available force! Any pretense along the lines of a takeover by force is more ridiculous than a corey goode bedtime story. The vast, vast majority of US soldiers and US cops and US alphabet agency agents will shoot you in the face when ordered to, and they won't care if you are libertarian or communist or apolitical. Going after the ruling elite by force is the second best thing we could do to make sure the same malevolent rulers retain power. (The best is by doing nothing, acquiescing power to the ruling elite.)

The reason that elections are a political circus is because they were designed to be a political circus by the ruling class that controls elections. I'll bet you 2.3 trillion dollars that as long as the us election system is controlled by the ruling elite, using the duopoly that they completely control, that the government will continue to be a criminal/mobster enterprise. If citizens took over the election system (and completely rewrite the election laws to keep the bastards out of power), there is a chance of real societal change for the better, the end of the war-for-profit machine (which would force US "defense" contractor corporations to switch to manufacturing something other than weapons.)

[ramus]

@ Deux Corbeaux I understanding your position , all i was trying to show is when you start down the road of trusting in gov't, you leave yourself open to agendas /parties- liberals /conservative.

Fuel / oil prices are the lowest in 5 years. Brent $61.00 .. $52.59 crude

Corrupt gov'ts aren't limited to France ... USA ... is another.

Deux Corbeaux
"The difference between the US and France is that the American people fear the government and the French government fears the people."

That is how it should be but I would say It's not true in either place..... In America they don't even know that the government is fooling them !... Still asleep...

[norman]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Posted by norman (here)
I can't agree with your notion that the electoral process is so important to keeping the top crooks in control. The electoral process only furnishes the political circus.

The only thing, in my opinion, that will root out the top crooks, is a war against them, that we win. We have the military clout to round them all up. It's "politics" that's stopping us using it. Even if the electoral process was 100% clean, the voters wouldn't vote to round up the crooks.

The problem isn't politics, it's crime. Law enforcement is required not a cleaner political circus.

But, don't "we" need to be in a position of power to just "take out the crooks?"

You missed the point. Taking over the election system is not playing politics; it should actually be the end of politics (if the citizens that take over the election system are wise enough to eliminate political parties as part of rewriting all the election laws.) "Politics" is the kabuki theater used to fool the people into believing that we have representation - red and blue teams arguing over whose team gets to direct the most dollars into their war-profiteering affiliates and to zionist israel.

No one is going to take down the criminal ruling class by force - they control 99.9% of all available force! Any pretense along the lines of a takeover by force is more ridiculous than a corey goode bedtime story. The vast, vast majority of US soldiers and US cops and US alphabet agency agents will shoot you in the face when ordered to, and they won't care if you are libertarian or communist or apolitical. Going after the ruling elite by force is the second best thing we could do to make sure the same malevolent rulers retain power. (The best is by doing nothing, acquiescing power to the ruling elite.)

The reason that elections are a political circus is because they were designed to be a political circus by the ruling class that controls elections. I'll bet you 2.3 trillion dollars that as long as the us election system is controlled by the ruling elite, using the duopoly that they completely control, that the government will continue to be a criminal/mobster enterprise. If citizens took over the election system (and completely rewrite the election laws to keep the bastards out of power), there is a chance of real societal change for the better, the end of the war-for-profit machine (which would force US "defense" contractor corporations to switch to manufacturing something other than weapons.)

As for the political circus, you are preaching to the choir here.

I'll contest your notion that force can't and won't work, by saying force is the only thing that will work.

It's correct to say that 'they' control the force. That's where the corrective action has to be. While they play the game of splitting the slate rock right in front of our feet, making us the little guys all the time, we must split the slate rock right in front of their feet instead, making them the little guys, for a change.

It's all down to the chain of command. We have to cut off their chain of command from the forces, and re dedicate the forces to the job that has to be done. That task is already underway to a slight extent. There needs to be much more progress with that, but it has to happen and I live/die for the day it does. The popular mind control is so complete that nothing else will get us there.

If we buckle, into political idealisms, we play their game yet again.

"It's about collaring crooks, stupid". [that's not a comment to you]

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by norman (here)

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Posted by norman (here)
I can't agree with your notion that the electoral process is so important to keeping the top crooks in control. The electoral process only furnishes the political circus.

The only thing, in my opinion, that will root out the top crooks, is a war against them, that we win. We have the military clout to round them all up. It's "politics" that's stopping us using it. Even if the electoral process was 100% clean, the voters wouldn't vote to round up the crooks.

The problem isn't politics, it's crime. Law enforcement is required not a cleaner political circus.

But, don't "we" need to be in a position of power to just "take out the crooks?"

You missed the point. Taking over the election system is not playing politics; it should actually be the end of politics (if the citizens that take over the election system are wise enough to eliminate political parties as part of rewriting all the election laws.) "Politics" is the kabuki theater used to fool the people into believing that we have representation - red and blue teams arguing over whose team gets to direct the most dollars into their war-profiteering affiliates and to zionist israel.

No one is going to take down the criminal ruling class by force - they control 99.9% of all available force! Any pretense along the lines of a takeover by force is more ridiculous than a corey goode bedtime story. The vast, vast majority of US soldiers and US cops and US alphabet agency agents will shoot you in the face when ordered to, and they won't care if you are libertarian or communist or apolitical. Going after the ruling elite by force is the second best thing we could do to make sure the same malevolent rulers retain power. (The best is by doing nothing, acquiescing power to the ruling elite.)

The reason that elections are a political circus is because they were designed to be a political circus by the ruling class that controls elections. I'll bet you 2.3 trillion dollars that as long as the us election system is controlled by the ruling elite, using the duopoly that they completely control, that the government will continue to be a criminal/mobster enterprise. If citizens took over the election system (and completely rewrite the election laws to keep the bastards out of power), there is a chance of real societal change for the better, the end of the war-for-profit machine (which would force US "defense" contractor corporations to switch to manufacturing something other than weapons.)

As for the political circus, you are preaching to the choir here.

I'll contest your notion that force can't and won't work, by saying force is the only thing that will work.

It's correct to say that 'they' control the force. That's where the corrective action has to be. While they play the game of splitting the slate rock right in front of our feet, making us the little guys all the time, we must split the slate rock right in front of their feet instead, making them the little guys, for a change.

It's all down to the chain of command. We have to cut off their chain of command from the forces, and re dedicate the forces to the job that has to be done. That task is already underway to a slight extent. There needs to be much more progress with that, but it has to happen and I live/die for the day it does. The popular mind control is so complete that nothing else will get us there.

If we buckle, into political idealisms, we play there game yet again.

"It's about collaring crooks, stupid". [that's not a comment to you]

What if the new citizen-authored election laws include dismissal, "with prejudice", of all elected and appointed officials? Then the people have taken away the door to governance from the ruling elite, and have control of the forces.

When I think of the concept of draining the swamp (collaring crooks), where everyone in the lowlands is soaked in swamp water (every existing politician came in through the elite-controlled duopoly), and where the very same swamp creatures appointed the duopoly federal judges and justices (all are soaked in swamp water), it doesn't make me want to bring treasonous criminals and war crime criminals and top-tier corporate criminals before the hand-picked duopoly judges. The ruling elite have protected themselves with many layers of insulation and waves of pawns, and I believe it would be impossible to get real trials, real convictions, and real punishment for the national-level and global-level criminals by going through the current justice system (which is itself filled with criminals.)

[norman]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

The ruling elite have protected themselves with many layers of insulation and waves of pawns, and I believe it would be impossible to get real trials, real convictions, and real punishment for the national-level and global-level criminals by going through the current justice system (which is itself filled with criminals.)

Completely agree with that.

Add the general state of education and political/power awareness in the population, and we can currently rule out political solutions too. It goes all the way down though the lot of us from top to bottom. Catherine Fitts' red button problem.

I have no faith in the planetary rulers, no faith in the crooked civil justice system, and lately, no faith in democratic processes by the mind controlled generations we are among right now. It's all completely unfit for purpose. Really, we need a bloody miracle.