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Thread: $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

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    Scotland Avalon Member scotslad's Avatar
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    Default $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

    If the http://www.usdebtclock.org/ is a guestimate of the USA national debt approaching $21.8 Trillion, one may ask where has all the money gone? (and on whose watch/term?)

    The following makes interesting reading...

    "Earlier this year, a Michigan State University economist, working with graduate students and a former government official, found $21 trillion in unauthorized spending in the departments of Defense and Housing and Urban Development for the years 1998-2015."

    Full article here - https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2017/m...nt-to-conduct/

    The article goes on to state...

    “Taken together these reports point to a failure to comply with basic constitutional and legislative requirements for spending and disclosure,”

    If that is true, what are the real consequences and implications of the above, if we are to believe the numbers quoted from both sides?

    And trump appeared in the UK media this week saying that if he didn't get the funding for his wall passed, then he was going to close the government.

    eeeeee me.

    Whatever next?

    I seem to recall Iceland sacked its government a few years ago. Wonder what legal or lawful repercussions are options for the citizens of the US? (if any)

    Is a civil war fast approaching with citizens getting up in arms (literally)? Will Trump be the last president of the USA? Will the money bubble burst? Is Deep State spending too much money on Corey Goode's PR and legal expenses and its aggressive foreign policy?

    One thing for sure, UK (and European) politics has been somewhat eventful this week too, and the uk debt clock http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/ has topped £2.1trillion...

    eee me, Who knows where it will all end up?

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    Default Re: $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

    The whole Fiat financial system is based on debt. Governments borrow money from the Central Banks and the tax payer has to pay the interest. More money is printed creating more debt and so it goes on.

    Effectively, 100% of our income tax is used to pay the interest on money that was created out of thin air. It's a cute scam run by the Central Banks.

    Nothing new, just the size gets bigger and bigger because of inflation (caused by printing more money to pay off debt).

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    Default Re: $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

    As contrast, apparently the national debt in Germany is (only) 1.9 Trillion Euros. One comment on a German site illustrating this, wrote that it will take 2000 years until Germany will be free of debt. (Because the debt is supposedly gradually reducing)
    https://www.gold.de/staatsverschuldung-deutschland/

    In Wikipedia it says:
    Quote Germany is indebted to domestic creditors by about 40%, about 60% of German debt is foreign debt. The domestic creditors are about two-thirds domestic credit institutions and one-third non-banks (insurance companies, companies, private individuals).
    Have German citizen openly agreed to take up loans? What kind of financial Management is that? And we have supposedly financial experts at the top. I am not so sure of that. Those financial realms are very murky waters.
    "The greatest good you can do for another is not just share your riches, but to reveal to him his own."
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    Default Re: $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

    Quote Posted by scotslad (here)
    If the http://www.usdebtclock.org/ is a guestimate of the USA national debt approaching $21.8 Trillion, one may ask where has all the money gone? (and on whose watch/term?)

    The following makes interesting reading...

    "Earlier this year, a Michigan State University economist, working with graduate students and a former government official, found $21 trillion in unauthorized spending in the departments of Defense and Housing and Urban Development for the years 1998-2015."

    Full article here - https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2017/m...nt-to-conduct/

    The article goes on to state...

    “Taken together these reports point to a failure to comply with basic constitutional and legislative requirements for spending and disclosure,”

    If that is true, what are the real consequences and implications of the above, if we are to believe the numbers quoted from both sides?

    And trump appeared in the UK media this week saying that if he didn't get the funding for his wall passed, then he was going to close the government.

    ...
    No one is allowed to question this defense spending. The last time someone demanded to investigate what happened to all the money, The September 11 attacks happened shortly after ...

    "The Pentagon has never been audited. That's astonishing "
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...itary-spending
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

    Brilliant! It will be interesting to hear what Catherine Austin Fitts (former Asst. Sec. of HUD) has to say about this article! She's been on the track of those missing trillions for a long time...
    It's worth copying the article from https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2017/m...nt-to-conduct/
    here:
    (and let's say some prayers for this guy Skidmore and his team!)

    MSU economist Mark Skidmore and his team found $21 trillion in unauthorized government spending.

    Published: Dec. 11, 2017
    "MSU SCHOLARS FIND $21 TRILLION IN UNAUTHORIZED GOVERNMENT SPENDING; DEFENSE DEPARTMENT TO CONDUCT FIRST-EVER AUDIT
    Contact(s): Mark Skidmore , Andy Henion
    Earlier this year, a Michigan State University economist, working with graduate students and a former government official, found $21 trillion in unauthorized spending in the departments of Defense and Housing and Urban Development for the years 1998-2015.

    The work of Mark Skidmore and his team, which included digging into government websites and repeated queries to U.S. agencies that went unanswered, coincided with the Office of Inspector General, at one point, disabling the links to all key documents showing the unsupported spending. (Luckily, the researchers downloaded and stored the documents.)

    Now, the Department of Defense has announced it will conduct the first department-wide, independent financial audit in its history (read the Dec. 7 announcement here).

    The Defense Department did not say specifically what led to the audit. But the announcement came four days after Skidmore discussed his team’s findings on USAWatchdog, a news outlet run by former CNN and ABC News correspondent Greg Hunter.

    “While we can’t know for sure what role our efforts to compile original government documents and share them with the public has played, we believe it may have made a difference,” said Skidmore, the Morris Chair in State and Local Government Finance and Policy at MSU.

    Skidmore got involved last spring when he heard Catherine Austin Fitts, former assistant secretary of Housing and Urban Development, refer to a report which indicated the Army had $6.5 trillion in unsupported adjustments, or spending, in fiscal 2015. Given the Army’s $122 billion budget, that meant unsupported adjustments were 54 times spending authorized by Congress. Typically, such adjustments in public budgets are only a small fraction of authorized spending.

    Skidmore thought Fitts had made a mistake. “Maybe she meant $6.5 billion and not $6.5 trillion,” he said. “So I found the report myself and sure enough it was $6.5 trillion.”

    Skidmore and Fitts agreed to work together to investigate the issue further. Over the summer, two MSU graduate students searched government websites, especially the website of the Office of Inspector General, looking for similar documents dating to 1998. They found documents indicating a total $21 trillion in undocumented adjustments over the 1998-2015 period. (The original government documents and a report describing the issue can be found here.)

    In a Dec. 8 Forbes column he co-authored with Laurence Kotlikoff, Skidmore said the “gargantuan nature” of the undocumented federal spending “should be a great concern to all taxpayers.”

    “Taken together these reports point to a failure to comply with basic constitutional and legislative requirements for spending and disclosure,” the column concludes. “We urge the House and Senate Budget Committee to initiate immediate investigations of unaccounted federal expenditures as well as the source of their payment.” "
    Last edited by onawah; 16th December 2018 at 00:05.
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    Default Re: $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

    The remedy for the U. S. is rejection of citizenship. If we did that, the system would disintegrate instantly. As a citizen, one is subject to statutes, whereas the "Law of the Land" is only the Code. As long as we remain subjects of those unnecessary laws, nothing will change. This is the only country in the world where one can live freely and enjoy the protection of the Constitution, which is a law on the government, not on us. It's that simple. It is also really difficult to change once you are an adult. There needs to be a generation of children whose parents do not commit them to citizenship.

    The biggest single line item the government pays is "debt service", or interest. No principal. Total Defense spending is higher, but that is a blanket for all kinds of expenses. One of our biggest debt holders is Luxembourg. Average citizen's share of the debt is around $60,000 now, when you're born. By the time you enter the work force, it will probably be $80,000. If you paid a 1% debt service, this item will cost you $8,000 per year, while it continues to increase. Around $1,000 of that will go to Luxembourg. However, since there are not many "average citizens" and the actual tax-paying employment rate is about 40%, you would have to change this again in terms of the people who actually pay it.

    Even in the world of "fake money", if we had...not had the military adventurism, then we would probably be more in line with the European countries that don't see such a phenomenal need for it. Around 10% of our tax expenditures seem legitimate to me. But all the "ifs" that "could have fixed" the current system are too late. Pretty soon we will start eating that humble pie. Or, the only fix is utter disposal.

    It is technically possible to call Consitutional referendums and force things to happen if a significant majority insists. I don't recall any of those things happening, ever. Some White House petitions maybe.

    When I started watching the debt, it was something like 6 trillion, which was mind boggling then. A little further along, I realized it was mathematically impossible to solve. The U. S. has never had a Civil War, which is two sides fighting for control of the government. Yes, we have so much armament all over the place, but it is mostly all about domestic protection. No one is really going to march on anything in that way. We're generally in more danger from each other as it is. I believe there is a pretty substantial percentage that for some reason, would be happy to shoot you, and more that would support any action or policy that would get rid of you. So the death cult is fairly widespread. Rioting would be really easy to trigger in the event of a breakdown, which, perhaps, could lead to a Mad Max scenario. Some politicians might want this to attempt to seize the remains, but I think most are lily livers who just want smooth operation of an ever-expanding tax base. Minor or military type destruction is a necessary tool, but, overall, they probably want mind slaves more than annihilation. Exceptions are for example Maurice Strong, now long gone, but, that's who swindled me when I first started thinking about it.

    Lest we forget, some one else on Avalon was sketchy about Mr. Strong and you will see him there behind religious unity which turns out to be sheer manipulation. When his plan works, "the industrialized countries go poof".

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    Default Re: $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

    Good comments shaberon but the US did have a civil war from 1861 to 1865. But certainly not in recent times...

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    Default Re: $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    Brilliant! It will be interesting to hear what Catherine Austin Fitts (former Asst. Sec. of HUD) has to say about this article! She's been on the track of those missing trillions for a long time...
    She collaborated with him in this investigation.

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    Default Re: $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

    Yes, it says so in the article, but now the info is out there, going public. I don't know if she has commented on it in any of her latest interviews, but it will be interesting to hear what more she has to say about it.
    Quote Posted by neutronstar (here)
    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    Brilliant! It will be interesting to hear what Catherine Austin Fitts (former Asst. Sec. of HUD) has to say about this article! She's been on the track of those missing trillions for a long time...
    She collaborated with him in this investigation.
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    Default Re: $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

    "The Pentagon has never been audited. That's astonishing"
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...itary-spending
    Much the same as the EU 'Gravy Train' Ha Ha, and they asked Kinnock to investigate ? ? ! ! At last even the French are 'waking-up' ..
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 18th December 2018 at 01:52. Reason: fixed quote formatting

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    Default Re: $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

    Quote Posted by 5th (here)
    Good comments shaberon but the US did have a civil war from 1861 to 1865. But certainly not in recent times...
    No, was a failed secession. At no point was the Confederacy seeking to take over Washington, D. C. or the Union. England has had multiple civil wars where someone tried or did take the throne. Ours cannot be named properly, because then people will start looking at how the Union treated what it claimed was its population. This was shortly after the era of the last president who "killed the bank" (Andrew Jackson). From here is really what led to the penning of the 1871 Act wherein, supposedly, slaves finally counted as a person, which was used approximately one time in court to defend a freed slave. Instead, it was seized by corporations, so that...instead of slavery, where a person is property...now property, a corporation, is a person. This is also when British interests began taking over from the inside.

    They weren't $21 trillion in debt, yet, but that was what laid the ground for it to happen.

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    Default Re: $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Quote Posted by 5th (here)
    Good comments shaberon but the US did have a civil war from 1861 to 1865. But certainly not in recent times...
    No, was a failed secession. At no point was the Confederacy seeking to take over Washington, D. C. or the Union. England has had multiple civil wars where someone tried or did take the throne. Ours cannot be named properly, because then people will start looking at how the Union treated what it claimed was its population. This was shortly after the era of the last president who "killed the bank" (Andrew Jackson). From here is really what led to the penning of the 1871 Act wherein, supposedly, slaves finally counted as a person, which was used approximately one time in court to defend a freed slave. Instead, it was seized by corporations, so that...instead of slavery, where a person is property...now property, a corporation, is a person. This is also when British interests began taking over from the inside.

    They weren't $21 trillion in debt, yet, but that was what laid the ground for it to happen.
    Whatever, it certainly was a civil war by definition. I believe the Confederacy had their own government that was opposed to Lincoln's policies so that's pretty close to taking over the government.

    I don't think that war laid the grounds for the $21M debt. that's due to the Federal Reserve Bank and the fractional reserve scam banking system that produces debt in every country using that system.

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    Default Re: $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

    Quote Posted by 5th (here)

    I don't think that war laid the grounds for the $21M debt. that's due to the Federal Reserve Bank and the fractional reserve scam banking system that produces debt in every country using that system.
    BTW, that's $21 trillion not, million.

    Do you think it's just a complete coincidence that the D.O.D. can't account for exactly the same amount in their budget, $21 trillion?

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    Default Re: $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

    James Corbett just interviewed Dr. Mark Skidmore of Michigan State University on the missing $21 trillion at the D.O.D.
    I recommend the video.

    https://www.corbettreport.com/interv...ing-trillions/

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    Default Re: $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    James Corbett just interviewed Dr. Mark Skidmore of Michigan State University on the missing $21 trillion at the D.O.D.
    I recommend the video.

    https://www.corbettreport.com/interv...ing-trillions/


    always worth a watch
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    Default Re: $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

    Quote Posted by 5th (here)

    I don't think that war laid the grounds for the $21M debt. that's due to the Federal Reserve Bank and the fractional reserve scam banking system that produces debt in every country using that system.
    Well yes, the Fed directly has more to do with it. However, this was after 100 years of attempts to re-install a central bank, starting with the War of 1812. I guess, maybe it was a civil war, was fought to keep the union or empire intact, much moreso than being about slavery issues, with the freed slaves then being used as the basis for the 1871 act that got flipped around into legal person-hood of corporations. That's quite major. Early corporations were limited to 20-year charters (like the bank), were generally only used for large projects like canals and bridges, and were routinely dissolved if corrupted. The 19th century saw repeated attempts to replace the bank, and so the war and the act were both instrumental in favoring big government and big business. By the end, there were grounds for an immortal, legally-protected person who is only an abstract item (corporate charter). Much better banking environment than before.

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    Default Re: $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by 5th (here)

    I don't think that war laid the grounds for the $21M debt. that's due to the Federal Reserve Bank and the fractional reserve scam banking system that produces debt in every country using that system.
    BTW, that's $21 trillion not, million.

    Do you think it's just a complete coincidence that the D.O.D. can't account for exactly the same amount in their budget, $21 trillion?
    Yes, of course - trillion!

    Since debt exists in every country and since the US has had a large debt long before the missing $21T it could well be a coincidence or maybe the figure was manipulated a little. It's impossible to believe that if that money weren't missing the US would have no debt. You simply must have debt if you use the current system.

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    Default Re: $21 Trillion in the red. Where DID all the money go?

    You know where the money went, it is all right in front of us, we just can't prove What they actually spent on What. It's not cheap paying spies, blowing up drone bombs, buying weapons to sell at a loss just so it happens, reverse engineering things, paying to cover up things and the way it looks they are going to have allot more come up missing in future budgets.

    It's not the Militaries of the world that scare me, It's the Industrial Complex running them.
    Last edited by DouglasDanger; 20th December 2018 at 06:40.
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