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Thread: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

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    Default UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    I would ask what our British friends think about this, but perhaps they aren't allowed to say without risking being charged with "hate speech" themselves?

    Quote Officers investigating hate crime search for loud man who talked of 'dislike of Muslims' on train from York to Leeds

    A man who spoke of his 'dislike of Muslims' on a train from York to Leeds is being sought by officers investigating hate crime.

    The incident occurred at around 11.30pm on October 17, when British Transpot Police (BTP) were made aware of a man talking loudly about his 'dislike of Muslims' on the 10.52pm Trans Pennine Express service from York to Leeds.

    A passenger on board sent a text message to BTP.

    The man was white with a shaven head and approximately 5ft 6ins tall and of a slim to medium build.

    He was wearing a blue bomber jacket with a white stripe, dark jeans and black trainers.

    Officers are appealing for any witnesses who were on board the train and heard what happened, to get in touch. Or, if the description matches someone you know, to get in touch.

    You can contact BTP by sending a text to 61016 or by calling 0800 40 50 40 quoting reference 663 of 27/10/2018. Or you can call Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111.
    https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....eeds-1-9501825


    So what exactly are you allowed to say about observers of Islam in Britain nowadays, without risking prison? Anything at all? I'm genuinely curious. It seems the line is pushed more and more every day.

    The scariest part is that anyone arrested for such a crime will face being imprisoned alongside all of the Muslims in British prisons who were sufficiently criminal that the UK couldn't overlook their crimes. This is what they did to Tommy Robinson, who might have lost his life if he hadn't checked himself into solitary confinement to avoid jihad.

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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    Quite likely that you have overlooked what might lie beneath the phrase , "dislike of moslems" , which is probably in quotation marks for good reason . You can easily imagine what an inebriated male ( teenager or young man ? ) could or might have said .
    If the reported comments proceeded along the lines , ' All effing c****, these bingo bongo Allah ****** etc etc " , then the whole incident flavour is dramatically revised .

    As for petty thug Tommy Robinson . He had that latter type of profile when young . His CV is littered with crime from hate actions to mortgage fraud , from memory . He was latterly punished for flagrantly defying a previous court judgement and order and warrants no sympathy .
    Of course he managed to convince a gullible part of the public that his rights of Free Speech were infringed . It was overlooked by most that his publicity stunt came close to suspending a multi million pound Crown Court trial against around 30 defendants who were broadly accused of pimping young girls , paedophilia etc .You cannot release defendant details before or during trial -- for obvious sound reasons
    Circumstances have since conspired to remove this thug from public attention and decent people for once applaud any part that officialdom has played to engineer this . I am a supporter of both Infowars and Breitbart in principle . However , their support of Mister Robinson-- plus other MSM organisations desperate for sales -- has been regrettable because they have been hoodwinked .
    Hopefully my comments might temper your opinions and guard against the danger of making generalisations from an incident sample size of one or two .

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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    Quote Posted by ripple (here)
    If the reported comments proceeded along the lines , ' All effing c****, these bingo bongo Allah ****** etc etc " , then the whole incident flavour is dramatically revised .
    So depending on how bad his words were, maybe he deserves for the government to send him to prison. That's what I'm getting from you.

    Very interesting, the direction the UK is taking on this. How do you suppose this is different from how the former communist governments in Eastern Europe used to lock up their political dissidents? What's the biggest difference, in your mind?

    Quote As for petty thug Tommy Robinson . He had that latter type of profile when young . His CV is littered with crime from hate actions to mortgage fraud , from memory . He was latterly punished for flagrantly defying a previous court judgement and order and warrants no sympathy .
    So it's okay that he's imprisoned for criticizing immigration policy and Muslim rape gangs if he previously committed an unrelated crime related to mortgages? That's a legal argument I've never heard before.

    Quote Of course he managed to convince a gullible part of the public that his rights of Free Speech were infringed .
    Britain has free speech protections? That's also news to me. Can you cite a particular law that actually gives you freedom of speech? I honestly didn't think you had one, and in fact it seems pretty clear to me that there are no such protections.

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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    You are absolutely right that the severity of a crime influences the type and severity of its punishment . Fortunately we vigorously retain this basic principle which lies at the front of all decent nations who strive for justice .I feel sure that you do not want to argue against this proposition and invite anarchy and chaos --- along the lines we tragically see happening so often in America .

    Unfortunately you have misunderstood the facts surrounding thug Robinson's gaol sentence . Glance again at my previous post for the actual version . The law is very clear in this matter and however you try to twist and turn Mister Robinson was guilty .If you had chosen to argue that his punishment was too severe, I would have some small measure of agreement . And that is effectively how the matter was resolved -- his effective sentence was reduced on appeal .

    Your last remark I have chosen to grin at and accepted that you are just having some Christmas day fun .
    Here it is time for breakfast and I am going to have some jumbo crab washed down with a very delightful Belgian craft beer .
    May your day also be so splendid .

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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    The pendulum swings this way and that.
    At the moment so many things are politically incorrect.
    Once upon a time it was ok to call Scots Mac no doubt that would raise an eyebrow now.
    Aberdonians were the butt of Scottish humour-- portrayed as being tight fisted.
    Spell check discriminates against these words and many Scottish sayings--who can I complain to?

    All just promoting --whatever.
    An enemy of free speech?
    You must conform to politically correct--or else.

    It will settle down--common sense will prevail--there is a natural balance---I hope

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    To anyone reading this thread... what does 'hate speech' really mean??

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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    Hate speech--a buzz expression--to label and condemn the various shades of dislike under one umbrella.
    Dont voice an opinion--or do so at your own risk.
    Obviously some opinion vocalized are acceptable, some border line, some over the top.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims


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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    Hate speech was defined as incitement towards violence of another group.
    Originally used to stop Muslim grooming of the vulnerable and disaffected to violence against the larger christian population.
    As for Tommy he is now making political overtures into mainstream politics through ukip,and has much support,was there a plot all along?

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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    To anyone reading this thread... what does 'hate speech' really mean??
    Whatever some sanctimonious holier-than-thou hypocrite says it means.
    I am enlightened, ............ Oh wait. That's just the police shining their spotlights on me.

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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    Quote Posted by samildamach (here)
    Hate speech was defined as incitement towards violence of another group.
    Originally used to stop Muslim grooming of the vulnerable and disaffected to violence against the larger christian population.
    As for Tommy he is now making political overtures into mainstream politics through ukip,and has much support,was there a plot all along?
    In Canada it was pushed as a law by heavy rich Jewish groups. This is a Jewish idea. That spread to Muslims, ironically.

    David Icke is forbodden in Canada for hate speech following a complaint from Jewish lobbies. It ha never been used yet by Muslim, I believe. But i think some gay groups may have used it to sue, but not sure.

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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    In Canada it was pushed as a law by heavy rich Jewish groups. This is a Jewish idea. That spread to Muslims, ironically.
    Muslims have blasphemy laws in their own countries, which are similar. The only difference is, they don't send you to prison, but cut your head off. When they learn the English language, they probably just identify the concept of "hate speech" with their own blasphemy laws.

    That's another thing I was going to ask ripple. Even if you throw someone in jail for saying he doesn't like Muslims, that's not really going to change the way he thinks about Muslims, is it? So the logical conclusion of forcibly shutting up people like this is to simply execute them, exactly as they do in Muslim countries. That's the only way to truly eradicate this "problem." Is that the next step for the UK?


    Quote Posted by samildamach (here)
    As for Tommy he is now making political overtures into mainstream politics through ukip,and has much support,was there a plot all along?
    A "plot"? Interesting choice of language. It seems when a left-winger sets out to radically transform society, it's "activism" and "progress," but when more conservative figures campaign against such change, it's a "plot." Am I getting that about right?


    Here's another interesting case recently:



    Quote Boxing fan is thrown out of Manchester Arena on big fight night for wearing a Union Jack waistcoat

    - James Baxter, 39, was watching Josh Warrington take on Carl Frampton
    - Staff complained about his clothing emblazoned with the Union Jack flag
    - Guards said it broke the arena's 'no colours' policy and asked him to remove it

    This is the moment a boxing fan was surrounded by security guards before being thrown out of the stadium for wearing a Union Jack waistcoat.

    James Baxter, 39, was watching Josh Warrington take on Carl Frampton at the Manchester Arena on Saturday night when staff complained about his clothing emblazoned with the red, white and blue flag.

    Guards said it broke the arena's 'no colours' policy and asked him to remove the garment.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...waistcoat.html

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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    Quote [B][SIZE="4"]

    This is the moment a boxing fan was surrounded by security guards before being thrown out of the stadium for wearing a Union Jack waistcoat.

    James Baxter, 39, was watching Josh Warrington take on Carl Frampton at the Manchester Arena on Saturday night when staff complained about his clothing emblazoned with the red, white and blue flag.

    Guards said it broke the arena's 'no colours' policy and asked him to remove the garment.
    On the OP, , Do people go around with BTP telephone numbers on their 'phone,
    in case they need it ? So I think this is a SET-UP, just like many other thousands, every week, in different circumstances...

    Reminds me of when I was waiting in Londons VCS for a coach to Dover... A nice Polite, young policeman awoke me , saying he had a report, I'd been smoking canabis of similar ( I'm a Non-Smoker ), when I co-operated with him, and asked him to call a Superior Officer, to interview the informant, he sensibly backed-down, with his intelligence, saw that he'd been ' Put-up'...

    Point I make here, there are MILLIONS of ordinary people, who have been NLP'd, to cause social dis-ease, dis-contentment. I think this alleged case is probably the same...
    After all, we had " 'till Death do us part " and " Love thy Neighbour " on UK TV !

    Secondly, Pride in one's Country, is Cultural, NOT racist...
    Anyone remember the ' Buy British 'campaign ? The French, still push their
    ' Produit en France '... { except when it's cheap ' e.u. wine, mixed in with ' Vin du Table ' ! ! ! }

    Time to STOP this NLP - driven subversion, and reclaim ancient Sovereignty !, not as ' citizens', or ' persons', but as MEN and Women...

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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    Sajid Javid suggests there could be 'cultural reasons' for Pakistani grooming gangs
    The Independent Joe Watts,

    Sajid Javid has suggested there could be “cultural reasons” that men from a Pakistani background become involved in grooming gangs.

    The home secretary said it was “self-evident” that there are a high proportion of men of Pakistani heritage involved in recent cases and that it would be wrong to dismiss the possibility just to be sensitive.

    It comes after he was criticised for tweeting in October about “sick Asian paedophiles” in a Huddersfield gang, who were found guilty of the rape and sexual abuse of girls as young as 11.
    image

    Read more

    Theresa May and Sajid Javid clash over Brexit immigration plan

    He made the comments on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme which was on Boxing Day guest edited by Pakistani-born writer Kamila Shamsie, who predicted the rise of a working class Asian home secretary in her most recent novel.

    Mr Javid said: “I’m very much aware of the need for politicians to be careful with language as well as what they do.

    “When it comes to gang-based child exploitation it is self-evident to anyone who cares to look that if you look at all the recent high-profile cases there is a high proportion of men that are of Pakistani heritage.”

    He added: “There could be – and I’m not saying there are – some cultural reasons from the community that those men came from, that could lead to this type of behaviour. For me to rule something out just because it would be considered sensitive would be wrong.”

    Sajid Javid said that he particularly took the Rochdale grooming scandal personally, because it involved his home town as well as men who were from a Pakistani background like him.
    Sajid Javid: I don't regret Asian paedophile tweet

    Mr Javid said: “I still go [to Rochdale] now and again because I have family there that I care deeply about.

    “When I heard about – and there has been more than one case – grooming gangs where almost every individual involved is of Pakistani heritage ... I can’t help noting the fact that Rochdale is a town that means something to me and I am also of Pakistani heritage.”

    He added: “I think it would be true of anyone that if they heard about something – in this case bad – connected to a town that was something special to them, naturally that would be a thought in their mind.”

    After a group of 20 men in Huddersfield were found guilty of rape and the sexual abuse of girls, Mr Javid Tweeted: “These sick Asian paedophiles are finally facing justice. For too long, they were ignored. Not on my watch. There will be no no-go areas.”

    Mr Javid also defended government action to strip offenders of their British citizenship. Asked if he was concerned about the possible lack of control over paedophiles if they returned to Pakistan, Mr Javid insisted that his responsibility was to citizens in the UK.

    In August, the Court of Appeal upheld a decision to strip three members of a Rochdale grooming gang of their British citizenship.

    Abdul Aziz, Adil Khan and Qari Abdul Rauf were among nine men jailed in May 2012 after being found guilty of grooming and sexually exploiting a number of young girls.

    British-Pakistani author Ms Shamsie wrote her novel Home Fire, which last year won the Women’s Prize for Fiction, but she started her writing career in 1998, with her novel In the City by the Sea.

    Home Fire featured a character called Karamat Lone, who like Mr Javid, is Britain’s home secretary and child of working-class Pakistani Muslim migrants, who made his fortune in the corporate world before becoming a Tory MP.
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    I'd say a lot of embroilment comes from using a blanket term like "Muslims".

    Have caliphates historically waged untold destruction...yes. In my personal life, have I suffered something similar, being a major problem caused by a Muslim, yes...and at the same time, when I was in a bad bind, who helped me for no other reason than it was the right thing to do...a Muslim. In fact, I can't recall any other "kind" of person who was ever generous to me like that. The main obstacle is the "bigots" of any ethnicity, in which case I would have to dislike a large portion of people who "look like me", and admire more that don't. Bigotry would have to include even the intra-racial issues like corralling females in a "girl farm", or oppressing the poor. Pakistan is like a laboratory for this stuff, intentionally designed that way by British map-making skills similar to Sykes-Picot. I think almost all of these "new boundaries" were created to produce problems that last for generations. That's mostly what we still see now.

    Aside from the issue of legislation, you can get in a lot of personal trouble just by saying one small thing to the wrong person. They like to condemn you forever! What the governments do is kind of just a glorification of this herd mentality. Perfectly Orwellian, he told us you would grow up to learn how to remain silent because your every opinion would be attacked by everyone else. So I think humanity as a whole has a long way to go, until people are not so easily offended and insulted by verbal or other messages. These kind of people like to hide all their dismay and get someone else to do the dirty work about it. What are they so afraid of?

    On the other hand, what bugs me in the business world is "aggression". It's a positive value. Folks, aggression means I am going to crush your skull with a hammer. So in a public scenario, there is a Darth Vader force choke on actual free speech, mixed with aggression, I suppose on behalf of capitalist forces. It's certainly not a recipe for making wholesome individuals. It can only be cut at its root of "superiority". Fire fighting the eruptions is itself a business--probably so big I can't even estimate how big. I believe speech should be basically unlimited. If it can be shown to be a crime plot, that would be one thing, but things seem to be a bit skewed along the lines of "he might commit a crime in the future". That is why the Greek helots assassinated their healthy young males all the time. They skipped the speech part. If you are alive, you might cause trouble. We are still close to that stage, with a bit of window dressing to make it appear otherwise.

    Looking specifically into Islamic areas, their language is not always suited to new things. The word for "helicopter" is the same as "airplane", and of course Al Qaeda was the closest they could come to "database" when first collating potential terrorists back in the 70s. Language fries minds when not used well. How many understand "jihad" as an inner battle instead of an earthly crusade? Koran is one of those things that can be pushed to extremes rather easily, but, the real scholars of it are very different, if few in number. Again, we can thank U. K. for implementing Wahhabism, and the C. I. A. for continuing in Pakistan using jihadist manuals printed in Nebraska. They did not start extremism, but, have certainly carried it forward in a way that can only meet opposition from their own citizens.

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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    The main obstacle is the "bigots" of any ethnicity, in which case I would have to dislike a large portion of people who "look like me", and admire more that don't.
    If the issue were only what people look like then why are there suddenly so many rape gangs and prostitution rings in the UK all of a sudden? The same is happening in Sweden and many other countries in Europe. Do you really think Middle Easterners lure British girls into prostitution rings because of the way they look, as opposed to, say, their backwards cultural attitudes towards women? Why does everyone want to act like it's the way someone looks which is the determining factor, when it is obvious no one is saying that?

    Quote On the other hand, what bugs me in the business world is "aggression". It's a positive value. Folks, aggression means I am going to crush your skull with a hammer. So in a public scenario, there is a Darth Vader force choke on actual free speech, mixed with aggression, I suppose on behalf of capitalist forces.
    When was the last time one business ran another out of town by smashing all their skulls with hammers? I think the comparison of competition between businesses (which is what keeps quality up and prices low, by the way, and why Chinese junk is junk) and physical violence is a completely absurd to say, and just shows how far the anti-free market propaganda has been spread by socialist activists. It's infinitely more likely that communist radicals will be the ones in the streets smashing peoples' heads in, just like they did in Russia and countless other countries in the 20th century.

    Quote It's certainly not a recipe for making wholesome individuals. It can only be cut at its root of "superiority".
    Or simply excellence. When it becomes a crime to pursue excellence in any field, which is going to entail competition and maybe even hurting someone's feelings, then the best you can hope for is mediocrity. The more realistic outcome is absolute degeneration, just like Chinese sweatshop labor. No competition there! But suicide nets on the roofs of factories instead! Major improvement I guess.

    Btw, I think it's unhealthy for men not to compete in life in some way. That's why many men enjoy sports, or video games, or even competition in business. It's a healthy outlet for our testosterone compared to, say, war. I think a lot of women simply don't understand the necessity of testosterone in society.
    Last edited by A Voice from the Mountains; 26th December 2018 at 21:21.

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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    According to Wikipedia, the UK does have some guarantees on freedom of speech:

    "United Kingdom citizens have a negative right to freedom of expression under the common law.[152] In 1998, the United Kingdom incorporated the European Convention, and the guarantee of freedom of expression it contains in Article 10, into its domestic law under the Human Rights Act. However, there is a broad sweep of exceptions including threatening, abusive or insulting words or behavior intending or likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress or cause a breach of the peace (which has been used to prohibit racist speech targeted at individuals),... "

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free...ech_by_country

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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    According to Wikipedia, the UK does have some guarantees on freedom of speech:
    With as many restrictions as are listed, it makes little difference, and doesn't serve the same purpose as our 1st Amendment is meant to.

    The point is to protect speech which is controversial, whether it's controversial speech about religion, race, gender, or anything else. The founders clearly prioritized the Enlightenment and Renaissance values of seeking truth above all else, rather than being afraid of hurting someone's feelings.

    Mundane, inoffensive speech doesn't need protection.

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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    The expression of hatred, or extreme dislike is simply an expression, using words. Nobody is injured in such exchanges, the old saying 'Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me' is a rustic truth. The power of language to persuade, and influence outcomes, this is well known to all media and political entities, which is why propaganda is employed in campaigns, why 'fake news' is a thing. If we value freedom at all, and I think our western society is founded on freedoms, for the individual, for the expression of different opinions, to comment on what is taking place, then we must support freedom of speech, and renounce efforts to control what people can say. If you seek to control what can be said, is this not just state sanctioned tyranny?
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    Default Re: UK police search for man who was heard saying he "dislikes" Muslims

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    To anyone reading this thread... what does 'hate speech' really mean??
    Today it means anything that the insane want for it to mean. They have made a joke of what was formerly understood to be "hate speech", minimalizing the concern for those of whom were actual victims of it and glorifying those who may deserve it. For the sane living among the insane, there is no right answer. So now I'm quilty of hate speech against the insane...
    cursichella1


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