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    Default Bolsonaro is coming to town

    [Mod Note: the first part of this post originated in this thread and the following second part initiated this new thread for discussion]

    Bolsonaro is coming to town.

    Last edited by Hervé; 26th December 2018 at 19:26.

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    Default Re: Bolsonaro is coming to town

    [Mod Note: the first part of this post originated in this thread and the following second part initiated this new thread for discussion]

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Bolsonaro is coming to town.
    I hope you said that in a ironic mood. If not, let it be known that Bolsonaro represents the worst powers that wererunning in the presidential election this year. TPTB. Unffortunatly he won, even being openly racist, violent, extremist, against his on country and people. Brazil is still under a coup d'etat. Bolsonaro will harden the awful things Temer is already doing to the pleople and land. Brazil is under the shock doctrine "treatment".

    So, please, don't take him for what he isn't: any kind of help. On the contrary, he is actvely hammering our country and people.

    It's suffice to say that, when voting for the impeachment of Dilma (the coup), he paied tribute to a famous torturer of the dictatorship period in Brazil, Ustra. That's the kind of person he admires.

    Pray for Brazil, please. Let us not be fooled by no type os false profets, be it religious or political.

    https://www.fairobserver.com/region/...on-news-99065/
    Last edited by Hervé; 26th December 2018 at 19:28.
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    Default Re: Bolsonaro is coming to town

    Quote Posted by Inaiá (here)
    I hope you said that in a ironic mood. If not, let it be known that Bolsonaro represents the worst powers that wererunning in the presidential election this year.
    I know all about it, I was following it closely. My girlfriend is Brazilian and her mom works in the Brazilian Senate.

    They said all the same things about Trump. It's the same phenomenon. The fact is, many Brazilians look back very fondly on the time of the military dictatorship, because the military intervened, as it did in Chile, in order to prevent a brutal communist regime from coming to power, and the US was ready and willing to provide assistance to the Brazilian military at that time. Fortunately, they did not need our help!

    People were executed because there was an attempted communist takeover of your government. Maybe you should study other communist regimes and reflect on the bullet you dodged, rather than how terrible the military supposedly was. The same military, which, by the way, transferred power peacefully back to a democratic constitution. And since that time what has happened? Brazil has only gone straight back to hell. Just look at Rio.

    Bolsonaro was elected democratically by the Brazilian people and I have faith that he will clean up the mess that the radical left has created, and help restore order and stability to South America. You may as well try to enjoy the ride because there's no going back at this point anyway. The exposure and shutting down John of God, the Clinton affiliate that he apparently is, is only one sign of the cleanup to come across both Americas.
    Last edited by Hervé; 26th December 2018 at 19:29.

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    Default Re: Bolsonaro is coming to town

    I don't want to digress the topic of this thread. The side topic "Brazil x Bolsonaro", as it was brougth here, though, shouldn't stay unadressed.

    News source i recomend about the topic: https://theintercept.com/

    In the end, we find our selves in the midst of a war on perception and the manipulation of people's thougts, energy and emotions.

    Anyway, what i stated in my initial post remains the same:

    Let us not be fooled by no type of false profets, be it religious or political.

    ==========================================================================================

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    I know all about it
    Happy to know that there are human beings with that divine capacity.

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    I was following it closely. My girlfriend is Brazilian and her mom works in the Brazilian Senate.
    Sure those are the unequivocal credentials that garantee you THAT divine perspective...

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    They said all the same things about Trump. It's the same phenomenon.
    I suspect who you are so respectfully refering as "they". But I won't dive into this field.

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    The fact is...
    Good to have a divine source announcing what the facts are. Let's take a look at those "facts" as put by you, shall we?

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    ...many Brazilians look back very fondly on the time of the military dictatorship
    (They are not the majority). Yeah... Military dictatorships leave such fondly feelings on the human heart, don't they?...

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    ...the military intervened (in Brazil), as it did in Chile, in order to prevent a brutal communist regime from coming to power
    I could adress the military/midiatic/economic "help" the USA has so kindly "served" the world trough out modern History... But i won't. Just one interesting thing: The USA's military "help" and coup d'etat in Chile ocurried in 9/11/1973.

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    ...the US was ready and willing to provide assistance to the Brazilian military at that time. Fortunately, they did not need our help!
    It's storically proven that the USA government, so unfortunetly, more then "helped" the military dictartorship in Brazil in the 60's.

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Maybe you should study... and reflect...
    Thank you for your kind divine tips.

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    ...how terrible the military supposedly was.
    Just sighed here.

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    The same military, which, by the way, transferred power peacefully back to a democratic constitution.
    Continuing this way I'll hiperventilate.

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Bolsonaro was elected democratically by the Brazilian people
    Democratically elected, sure, after years of professional shock treatment aplied to the country AND with the professional midiatic "help" of Steve Bannon, Trump's "marketing" assessor.

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    (I) have faith that he (Bolsonaro) will clean up the mess
    Interesting how some people perceive Bolsonaro (and Trump) as the best cleaning product that ever existed on the supermarket shelves...

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    ...the mess that the radical left has created
    (Note: PT party (if that's who you are refering to) is not radical left). PT was on the government for 12 years (on our 500 yo country!)... but, hey!, surely all the problems on the universe were created by them. Impressive.

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    ...and help restore order and stability to South America.
    Some kinds of "help" and "orders" I'll pass. Thank you.

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    You may as well...
    We'll might, we'll do and we'll be what we can and want, won't we? So help us God.

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    The exposure and shutting down John of God, the Clinton affiliate that he apparently is, is only one sign of the cleanup to come across both Americas.
    Somehow you've put Bolsonaro as the cause of the exposure of John of God. So let's take a look on what he's being doing on this field. To each department on the government Bolsonaro has nominated the antithesis of what would be the proper leader. He's been busy nominating wolves to take care of the chickens. For example, to be the head of the department of "Women, Family and Human Rights", Bolsonaro nominated Damares Alves, founder of the NGO Atini, which is being prosecuted by the Brazilian state and people on alegations of child sexual abuse and human trafficking among the indiginous. Such a great cleanup!

    Our faith should not be blind.
    We are walking together.

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    Default Re: Bolsonaro is coming to town

    Quote Posted by Inaiá (here)
    Just sighed here.
    It's not worth the time to talk about this point by point when it's pretty clear that you see communism as a lesser evil than the military intervention against it.

    You act as though communist regimes don't murder people, when they collectively murdered over 100 million people in the 20th century alone, far more than any other political ideology. So there is an obvious disconnect in your thinking that I can only attribute to the resurgence of radical ideologies in Brazilian culture and education, which is all too apparent. I suppose letting murderous communism run its course in Brazil would have been a preferable option for you. Luckily, more reasonable opinions prevailed.

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    Default Re: Bolsonaro is coming to town

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    ...it's pretty clear that you see...
    Maybe, just maybe, you should shine the crystal of your almighty crystal ball.

    That would be, you know, a reasonable action.

    Anyways, I've put my 50 cents on the topic of the original thread and on the side topic of Brazil x Bolsonaro.

    PS: Don't feel like adressing the topic of comunism, disconnectedly brought by you. It's not just that it was the second topic to derail of (and be missarranged with) the first one, but mostly that, as long as your almigthy crystal ball ain't working right, there is no point, really.

    Thank God the Truth, nor mine or yours, will stand, in Time.
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    Default Re: Bolsonaro is coming to town

    Quote Posted by Inaiá (here)
    PS: Don't feel like adressing the topic of comunism
    Why am I not surprised? So much passionate hatred of Bolsonaro, but the most murderous ideology in human history? Meh.

    Says it all.

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    Default Re: Bolsonaro is coming to town

    The following is a very brief extract from a Pepe Escobar letter written a couple of months ago . If it is essentially accurate , we must not lose sight of the evidence which suggests that the present position does not represent organic movement or progress . But , as usual , is contaminated and engineered manipulation .
    But still , hopefully, for the greater long term good .


    The sophisticated Hybrid War rolling coup in Brazil that started in 2014, had a point of inflexion in 2016 and culminating in 2018 with impeaching a president; jailing another; smashing the Right and the Center-Right; and in a post-politics-on-steroids manner, opening the path to neo-fascism.

    Bolsonaro though is a – mediocre – black void cipher. He does not have the political structure, the knowledge, not to mention the intelligence to have come so far, our of the blue, without a hyper-complex, state of the art, cross-border intel support system. No wonder he’s a Steve Bannon darling.

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    Default Re: Bolsonaro is coming to town

    Quote Posted by ripple (here)
    The sophisticated Hybrid War rolling coup in Brazil that started in 2014, had a point of inflexion in 2016 and culminating in 2018 with impeaching a president; jailing another; smashing the Right and the Center-Right; and in a post-politics-on-steroids manner, opening the path to neo-fascism.

    Bolsonaro though is a – mediocre – black void cipher. He does not have the political structure, the knowledge, not to mention the intelligence to have come so far, our of the blue, without a hyper-complex, state of the art, cross-border intel support system. No wonder he’s a Steve Bannon darling.
    The problem is that "fascism" has become simply telling a biological male that they are not a female. The goal posts for what constitutes true "oppression" have been bifurcated to both ignore the truly tyrannical abuses of power under regimes such as Dilma's (you don't think she was legitimately guilty of corruption, in Brazil?), while hyperfocusing on non-issues like the very natural public reaction against increasing levels of social degeneracy. And when I say degeneracy, I mean true degeneracy, such as encouraging kids to cut their genitals off and pretend they're the opposite gender before they're even finished with puberty, all while sexualizing them in the process. Or endless mass migration that fundamentally and irreversibly erases the culture and character of a nation's people. You aren't just going to be able to roll over everybody with this stuff while immaturely claiming any resistance to these radical agendas is "oppression." These kinds of agendas coming out of the left today are truly disgusting to most normal people, and deserve as much "tolerance" as mass murder itself.

    You are correct though that Bolsonaro did not come to power by himself, and neither did Trump. There are large networks of people behind these figures, and normal, hardworking people, who actually still have healthy and functioning families, and aren't just broken, confused products of these corrupt social systems. And these people are lining up behind these networks just as quickly as they recognize what is going on. These people are patriots, and I have been wondering where they have been all these decades. It's long past time that normal people band together to push back on all of this nonsense and restore both real order and real prosperity to society, instead of this endless fake outrage and socialism, exactly like the resurgence of the Red Guard.

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    Default Re: Bolsonaro is coming to town

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Quote Posted by Inaiá (here)
    PS: Don't feel like adressing the topic of comunism
    Why am I not surprised? So much passionate hatred of Bolsonaro, but the most murderous ideology in human history? Meh.

    Says it all.
    It is really hard to take you seriously.

    You live in a holler. Yet are telling a Brazilian you know more and better about their country because your current squeeze is from there(also making claims that she works in the Senate of that country to boot)
    What exactly does she do? Is she a senator or a researcher or legislative aid? If I have a cousin that works in the White House but is a gopher then I cant cite them as a source of deep knowledge.

    You use the words like "Coming out the left" like it is meaningful.

    Inaia,

    But what is the point, I just reread carefully and the way he talks about Chile in the 1970 means you dont have to take anything he says seriously. He literally believes the official story about Pinochet and Alliende. He thinks that Pinochet saved Chile. WOW.

    Even more wow is that Bill Ryan thanked that post. I am constantly surprised by Bills personal opinions lately.

    This is the best test though:

    Voice of the Mountains,
    Do you receive ANY sort of aid from the federal or state or local government? If you hate socialism, then dont take any help from the government.

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    Default Re: Bolsonaro is coming to town

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    You live in a holler. Yet are telling a Brazilian you know more and better about their country because your current squeeze is from there(also making claims that she works in the Senate of that country to boot)
    What exactly does she do? Is she a senator or a researcher or legislative aid? If I have a cousin that works in the White House but is a gopher then I cant cite them as a source of deep knowledge.
    She's an oral surgeon, and by the way, living in the country with a garden, surrounded by neighbors who are all friends and family, is beautiful and I wouldn't trade it for a stinkhole in the city any day. It's not as if we are all dirt poor out here and living in trailer parks, you know. Would you like to continue trying to make this a personal issue? Because I'm anxious to know what kind of utopia you live in, and how you would know anything about what's going on in Brazil.

    Quote But what is the point, I just reread carefully and the way he talks about Chile in the 1970 means you dont have to take anything he says seriously. He literally believes the official story about Pinochet and Alliende. He thinks that Pinochet saved Chile. WOW.
    So you think communism is the safer way to go?

    Do you have any idea how many people fascist regimes have killed, compared to how many communism has killed?

    Quote Do you receive ANY sort of aid from the federal or state or local government? If you hate socialism, then dont take any help from the government.
    The most I've taken is student loans, which I will have to repay with interest. That's hardly a hand-out. How about you? What do you do for a living? Still on good terms with your family? Maybe raised by a single parent? Or maybe we should keep this relevant to the subject at hand rather than diving into everyone's personal business?

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    Default Re: Bolsonaro is coming to town

    Following my 5 cents re Bolsonaro and Latin America. My opinion is based on my own experience from over 40 years visiting Latin America and having lived a total of more than 21 years in 3 different Latin American countries (one in Central America, one in the northern part of South America and since 2012 in Uruguay). My wife, children and grandchild were all born in Latin America (3 different countries). Furthermore I make several trips every year to at least 7 Latin American countries where I meet mostly relatively wealthy people. However, whenever possible, I try to talk to low income people (taxi driver etc) as well in order to get an idea of how well the country is doing. Having spent at least a couple of days, several times over a period of 4 decades, in almost all countries of Latin America (only exception is Bolivia, Belize and the Guayana’s) I believe that I should have sufficient experience to have a relatively well balanced opinion.

    Having said this I would like to make the following comments
    1. In general terms, since the first time I visited Latin America up to today, there has always been and still is, a huge gap between classes and races. In most countries there is a very small group of very rich people, which rather see the rest of the population as cheap labor force only. Although some members of these very rich groups are active in philanthropy, their actions are rather to show their peers that they engage than a real desire to help the poor to improve their life. In most countries there is only a small middle class. Between 1990 and 2008 this middle class was growing slowly, but since then is decreasing again. In all countries (maybe the only exception is Chile and to some extend Panama) the vast majority of the population is poor and struggles to survive.
    2. Although in some countries, officially there is no racism anymore, classism definitely still exists. It is very difficult for somebody to move up into a higher class and especially being accepted within the circle of this higher class.
    3. The “class” phenomenon seems to be a factor why Brasils centre left party has lost many votes in the last election. Lula’s policies (and maybe his luck as high commodity prices helped Brasil, being an important commodity producer, to generate more income during Lula’s presidency, when commodities prices were high) helped approximately 30 million to leave extreme poverty and many to move up from the poor to middle class. This progress based on consumption and high commodity prices was not sustainable once the commodity prices moved to lower levels. So the former poor that experienced an improvement during Lula’s presidency felt that they were losing ground again and the former middle class, which experienced a reduction of their “privileges” as they had to share their “space” with more and more people who moved up into the middle class were not happy neither. So although, since Lula’s presidency, the life of millions of Brazilians has improved, many were not happy anymore but not because the centre left party was so bad but rather because the felt that they are losing ground again. The reason for the economic downturn was manifold and certainly not everything was because of bad government actions.
    4. The government change from Lula/Rousseff to Temer was in fact a coup d'état from a possibly corrupt more or less pro citizen government to a more corrupt pro international business government. New policies in favor of multinationals (as per Perkins book “Confessions of an economic Hit man”), probably have helped the people in the Temer government to fill their pockets.
    5. Although I have serious doubts that the Bolsonaro government will be a good government (I do rather expect more of the economic hit man actions) I do truly hope that I am proven once more wrong (I had doubts about Lula as well when he got elected). I truly hope that the ministers nominated by Bolsonaro will do a good and better job then their affiliation and/or their past would indicate. (mostly old, military, man and many with previous legal problems).

    A comment to “A Voice from the Mountains”
    Although I am sure that your girl friend and her family are very nice people, I would like to say that most probably, somebody working in the Senate is not a good source or reference to get a feeling about the real situation in a country. This is certainly true for most of the members of the senate in Brazil as well as any other politicians in any other country (not only in Latin America). Apart from the fact that politicians possibly are biased anyway, it never makes much sense to ask somebody for an opinion when certain private interests are involved.

    A side note re security:
    The only time somebody tried to mug me during one of my trips to Brasil, was in 1981, during the military regime. Never happened again.
    Another curiosity that makes me muse about how one perceives or feels security: During the military regime nobody would have had the idea to visit the favelas. It was simply too dangerous. However during the leftist government of Lula, as I understand, it was “in” for tourist to visit the favelas.

    Although I do believe that it does not make much sense to discuss pro’s and con’s of military or communist regimes (both are in the business of restricting ones freedom and liberty and to steal as much as possible) and although I believe that at least in the case of Chile the Pinochet regime was not that bad for most people, I’d rather prefer not to have to live neither under a military regime nor a communist regime. Just the dusk-to-dawn curfews that military regimes normally keep up over an extended period of time, is clearly a restriction to ones own freedom.

    I wish all a great 2019 and hope that Brasil will do very well
    Last edited by chrifri; 31st December 2018 at 23:18.

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