GoFundMe ... The Wall

[ramus]

This is probably a bad idea, .... lets start out the new year with is:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/do...018-2018-12-07

A GoFundMe page to raise money for President Donald Trump’s proposed border wall has raked in over $18.5 million in just two weeks with an ultimate goal of $1 billion, and inspired at least one competing page dedicated to paying for ladders to get people over said wall (that page has so far raised over $158,000 with a $100 million goal after being established on Dec. 19).

The dueling pages are the latest example of how crowd-funding sites have become political battlegrounds in an increasingly divided America, with the rapidly-raised money a weapon wielded to support causes at both ends of the political spectrum.

[lake]

Funny as **** LOL

[ripple]

Might someone initiate a scheme that gives all 'illegal ' migrants access to the sanctuary city of their choice . But only a fully designated SC ----- from one voted for by citizen choice . With the proviso that only that SC address can ever be used by any immigrant without a job paying below a stipulated minimum , and that subsequent job loss elsewhere would force a return to the initially designated SC.
Or something similar, but probably better thought through .
Might shut up the Demonrats who think that money grows on trees .

[DeDukshyn]

 
Political extremism is evil and does nothing but wreak havoc on innocent people. It is a handicap that blinds an objective and reasonable view of the world which is required to actually act out intelligently and in a "forward" fashion.

There's nothing wrong with being right -leaning or left-leaning - but the more one leans, the more restricted their ability to actually interpret the world around them becomes. Thoughts, words or actions that result from this handicapped view then cannot be accurate, the same way only watching half a film then writing a review would be nothing but a huge fail. Yet such "movie reviews" are posted all over Avalon, and sometimes welcomed and applauded, unfortunately, but I digress.

A broader objective view and a broader perception of every scenario lends itself to being able to form logical, intelligent, and coherent discussion, and enables the discussion to move forward.

It is very sad to see so many people so caught up in the BS that they can't see that it is they themselves who are acting out divisional tactics that they claim to be against.

[Michi]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
 
Political extremism is evil and does nothing but wreak havoc on innocent people. It is a handicap that blinds an objective and reasonable view of the world which is required to actually act out intelligently and in a "forward" fashion.

There's nothing wrong with being right -leaning or left-leaning - but the more one leans, the more restricted their ability to actually interpret the world around them becomes. Thoughts, words or actions that result from this handicapped view then cannot be accurate, the same way only watching half a film then writing a review would be nothing but a huge fail. Yet such "movie reviews" are posted all over Avalon, and sometimes welcomed and applauded, unfortunately, but I digress.

A broader objective view and a broader perception of every scenario lends itself to being able to form logical, intelligent, and coherent discussion, and enables the discussion to move forward.

It is very sad to see so many people so caught up in the BS that they can't see that it is they themselves who are acting out divisional tactics that they claim to be against.

Politics in my view is just a propaganda machine to make people believe they rule the nation.
Blair Warren formulated in one sentence a scheme to control the masses:

“People will do anything for those who encourage their dreams, justify their failures, allay their fears, confirm their suspicions, and help them throw rocks at their enemies.”
― Blair Warren, The One Sentence Persuasion Course - 27 Words to Make the World Do Your Bidding

This is by the way a very good read and would be cool to add to the Avalon Library.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by devplan (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
 
Political extremism is evil and does nothing but wreak havoc on innocent people. It is a handicap that blinds an objective and reasonable view of the world which is required to actually act out intelligently and in a "forward" fashion.

There's nothing wrong with being right -leaning or left-leaning - but the more one leans, the more restricted their ability to actually interpret the world around them becomes. Thoughts, words or actions that result from this handicapped view then cannot be accurate, the same way only watching half a film then writing a review would be nothing but a huge fail. Yet such "movie reviews" are posted all over Avalon, and sometimes welcomed and applauded, unfortunately, but I digress.

A broader objective view and a broader perception of every scenario lends itself to being able to form logical, intelligent, and coherent discussion, and enables the discussion to move forward.

It is very sad to see so many people so caught up in the BS that they can't see that it is they themselves who are acting out divisional tactics that they claim to be against.

Politics in my view is just a propaganda machine to make people believe they rule the nation.
Blair Warren formulated in one sentence a scheme to control the masses:

“People will do anything for those who encourage their dreams, justify their failures, allay their fears, confirm their suspicions, and help them throw rocks at their enemies.”
― Blair Warren, The One Sentence Persuasion Course - 27 Words to Make the World Do Your Bidding

...

Absolutely, it is wielded exactly as a religion where you are told to choose on a spectrum of "good" or "evil", except on the "political spectrum" you aren't expected to just choose one side over the other universally, but often to be programmed which side to choose, by your parents and society / culture so that the masses can be "steered" to the rulers desires. That's how politics and democracy is designed. When you lean extremely heavily in one direction and lose your ability to be objective it is basically a sign that you have succumbed to the control of the structure as it was intended, as a pawn to be used as fodder to further the rulers ambitions.

[enfoldedblue]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
 
Political extremism is evil and does nothing but wreak havoc on innocent people. It is a handicap that blinds an objective and reasonable view of the world which is required to actually act out intelligently and in a "forward" fashion.

There's nothing wrong with being right -leaning or left-leaning - but the more one leans, the more restricted their ability to actually interpret the world around them becomes. Thoughts, words or actions that result from this handicapped view then cannot be accurate, the same way only watching half a film then writing a review would be nothing but a huge fail. Yet such "movie reviews" are posted all over Avalon, and sometimes welcomed and applauded, unfortunately, but I digress.

A broader objective view and a broader perception of every scenario lends itself to being able to form logical, intelligent, and coherent discussion, and enables the discussion to move forward.

It is very sad to see so many people so caught up in the BS that they can't see that it is they themselves who are acting out divisional tactics that they claim to be against.

I agree I say that if you are on a 'side' you are not seeing the whole picture. There is not a right side or a wrong side. I believe there is great danger in buying into this divisive idea.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by enfoldedblue (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
 
Political extremism is evil and does nothing but wreak havoc on innocent people. It is a handicap that blinds an objective and reasonable view of the world which is required to actually act out intelligently and in a "forward" fashion.

There's nothing wrong with being right -leaning or left-leaning - but the more one leans, the more restricted their ability to actually interpret the world around them becomes. Thoughts, words or actions that result from this handicapped view then cannot be accurate, the same way only watching half a film then writing a review would be nothing but a huge fail. Yet such "movie reviews" are posted all over Avalon, and sometimes welcomed and applauded, unfortunately, but I digress.

A broader objective view and a broader perception of every scenario lends itself to being able to form logical, intelligent, and coherent discussion, and enables the discussion to move forward.

It is very sad to see so many people so caught up in the BS that they can't see that it is they themselves who are acting out divisional tactics that they claim to be against.

I agree I say that if you are on a 'side' you are not seeing the whole picture. There is not a right side or a wrong side. I believe there is great danger in buying into this divisive idea.

The truth is that the problems in the world are varied such that the most appropriate solutions for the problem are equally varied, case dependent. Therefore the best solutions to all the problems are scattered across what is labelled the "political spectrum". You don't have to be a genius to see this is 100% true.

Perhaps the biggest problem of all is one step further up the rung than that even ... the structure is designed that we see th epolitician's role as one to "solve problems" exclusively. They say in their campaign "I'm going to solve this problem by doing X and solve that problems by doing Y", etc. In reality no problem ever gets solved, does it? I mean, do people really believe that American quality of life is going to improve if they build a billion dollar wall? Quality of life has to do with what you create in your life. Its just more saviour mentality.

But what that does is play the masses directly into the trap of "problem - reaction - solution" -- we beg them for solutions to problems that they themselves create to get our approval for solving. If you find yourselves voting for a politician in hopes they'll solve some "problem" you are falling for trap, or at best enabling root causes as to why change seems to rarely ever be in the correct direction or at least in any direction that actually moves us forward.

I fail to see how this isn't obvious to people, but it must be that this type of programming sometimes runs very deeply - exactly like a religion or cult maybe is a better word.

[ramus]

This should be looked at carefully:

The AP-NORC poll of 1,067 adults was conducted Dec. 13-16 using a sample drawn from NORC’s probability-based AmeriSpeak Panel, which is designed to be representative of the U.S. population. The margin of sampling error for all respondents is plus or minus 4.1 percentage points.
_______________________________________________________________________

Half of Americans now think immigration is a major problem

Published: Jan 4, 2019 11:24 a.m. ETAn AP-NORC poll found Republicans and Democrats are now more likely to say immigration is a top issue facing the country

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/49...ago-2019-01-04


By
Associated
Press

As much of the U.S. government remains shut down over President Donald Trump’s insistence on funding for his border wall, nearly half of Americans identify immigration as a top issue for the government to work on this year.

An Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research poll conducted shortly before the shutdown began finds that both Republicans and Democrats are far more likely to include immigration in their list of top issues facing the country this year compared with a year ago.

Overall, 49 percent mentioned immigration in an open-ended question as one of the top five problems they hoped the government addresses in 2019. By contrast, 27 percent mentioned immigration in December 2017.

Partisan divides on the best solutions remain deep. Republicans continue to be more likely to cite immigration as a top issue than Democrats, an indication of the GOP’s greater intensity on the issue. But it’s an increasingly important issue to members of both parties.

The poll found that 65 percent of Republicans say immigration is one of the top five problems facing the country, up from 42 percent in 2017. Among Democrats, 37 percent cite immigration as a top issue, compared with just 2 in 10 a year ago.

X
See Also
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Roughly two-thirds of those who named immigration as a top priority express little confidence in the government to make progress this year, including a third who say they are “not at all” confident. About a third say they are at least moderately confident in the government to make progress on immigration. This follows a year of intermittent deadlocked negotiations and standoffs between Trump and Democrats in Congress.

Although both Democrats and Republicans are increasingly likely to name immigration-related issues as top priorities for the government, other polls show that their opinions on the issue diverge dramatically. For example, a December poll by CNN found that 78 percent of Republicans and just 8 percent of Democrats supported building a border wall.

And with their party still in control of the White House and the Senate, Republicans are more optimistic about the government making progress on immigration this year. Among those who prioritize immigration, Republicans are more than three times as likely as Democrats to express some confidence that the government will make progress. That includes David Hoyt, a 77-year-old retired school superintendent and registered Republican in eastern Iowa.

“We waste too many resources with illegal aliens,” Hoyt said. “If people want to come here, let’s have them do it legally. I don’t understand why people don’t understand the word ‘illegal.’”

Hoyt says he’s also focused on the economy, and its healthy state is why he’s satisfied with the country’s direction and Trump’s performance.

“People are busy,” Hoyt said. “I can tell the economy from the number of semis on the highway, and it’s loaded.”

Chris Butino, 31, is a Democrat and a firefighter in Cortland, New York, who’s been disappointed by Trump’s rhetoric and actions on immigration, especially against refugees. Trump has sharply curtailed the number of refugees accepted by the U.S. and taken steps to limit who can claim asylum as more migrants from Central America try to do so at the Mexican border.

“We’re America — we’re the wealthiest nation in the world in terms of resources, and saying we’re not going to take in the poor, huddled masses,” Butino said. “We can maintain our own safety, but we can also be generous.”

The economy remains a top priority for Americans, with 62 percent citing related issues, including mentions of jobs, unemployment, taxes and trade.

Nearly half of Americans also identify health care as one of the top five issues facing the country, unchanged from one year ago. A traditionally Democratic issue, health care is named by Democrats more than Republicans (56 percent versus 43 percent).

There was a sharp rise in environmental and climate issues after a year of wildfires and hurricanes, a change that is largely driven by Democrats. Overall, about a quarter of Americans mention the environment as a top issue. About 4 in 10 Democrats include the environment as a priority, compared with just 8 percent of Republicans. The share of Democrats naming the environment has grown 11 percentage points since a year ago.

The poll was conducted in December before the stock market gyrations and government shutdown. Gil Parks, a retired CPA who’s become a rancher in Texas, is fine with the shutdown.

“It’s only 25 percent of the government,” he said.

Parks, a 59-year-old Republican, is optimistic the country could be in for a long stretch of economic growth, in part because of the partisan acrimony fueling the shutdown.

“If you look back in history, the economy did best when government couldn’t get in the way,” he said.

With Democrats assuming control of the House of Representatives, the inevitable gridlock could preserve the economic expansion, Parks argued.

Republicans are more likely than Democrats to be optimistic, but feelings about the country are mixed even within the GOP. Six in 10 Americans are dissatisfied with the way things are going in the country as a whole, including 79 percent of Democrats and 42 percent of Republicans. Among Republicans, that’s a slight increase from 33 percent who were dissatisfied with the state of the country in October. Still, Republicans are far more likely than Democrats today to say they’re satisfied with the way things are going in the country, 39 percent to 9 percent.

The unhappiness on both sides of the aisle is palpable to John Rossetti, a 47-year-old code enforcement officer in Youngstown, Ohio.

“There’s a really different, negative environment,” Rossetti said. “Everywhere you go, it’s there — just a very negative atmosphere.”

Rossetti describes himself as a moderate to conservative Democrat who didn’t support Trump in 2016 but was rooting for him to succeed. Now he’s disillusioned and pessimistic about the future, and he’s not alone. Americans are more likely to think things in the country will get worse in the next year than that they will get better, 42 percent to 32 percent.

More Americans do think 2019 will be a better year for them personally than think it will get worse, 37 percent to 18 percent, but another 45 percent say there won’t be much difference.

Rossetti has only had two small raises in the past 12 years he’s worked for Youngstown, yet his health insurance premiums keep rising.

“I don’t think I’m doing better,” Rossetti said. “I feel like I’m doing what I need to do to stay afloat.”

[DeDukshyn]

The article seems to be conflating immigration with illegals. Those two things aren't really the same thing though ... and the article then goes in to focus more on th eproblem with illegals, despite the headlines ... sigh ... "news" ...
But that's how media works to incite emotional reactions from headlines -- which, do understand, is really their goal and how the maximize their profits.

I am not saying that illegals in USA isn't a problem - it always has been a very real issue for as long as I can remember. Not much has changed except now perhaps a bigger "reaction" is needed to get the wall "solution" so the media is there to incite that reaction - that is its purpose and intends to have the effect of garnering more support - that's problem reaction solution for you and media and "statistics" is required to be a part of that process.


I want to apologize to you Ramus for using this thread as a platform for my anti political extremism rant, I should have started a new one. I do know you are firm right winger, and please do know that I wasn't targeting you with that speech in any way, but rather to those who would lean over so far their brain falls out on to the floor.

Nothing wrong with being aligned to the right (or left for that matter), as long as one doesn't lose their ability to reflect objectively on opposing political views.

[hermit]

(Well, there's always the uncomfortable reality when it comes to situations like this....)

[Ratszinger]

Did you ever think that the real reason the left wants the wall off the table is because they want all people living here and being tied to the USA including Russians, Chinese, Iranian, Libyan, Iraqi and more. They invite them in and show them off and make sure that the world know the USA is full of all of these peoples and we are a big family of mixed cultures so therefore the world as a whole is a safer place? It's likely that when you have a foreign policy that makes enemies of every nation you deal with in the world that you need a buffer to secure your own country! So what better buffer than their own people?

What are the odds of Russia, China or Iran attacking the USA even all together when their own families live here? They'd be attacking their own and many of them by this logic. So this negates the war threat, the nuke threat and so on by simply placing their own families in the land they base their operations out of. It's that simple. The elite based their operations in a place occupied by all peoples so they could operate safely with no fear of being attacked. They can't take out the elite without taking out their own people. It's brilliant when you stop to think about it.

[ramus]

Dear Dedukshyn : I have no problem with your post, there wasn't a lot of room for this threat to go, so your post was welcome. I was just trying to show people were willing to put there money where there mouth was.

$19,056,294 is the new number for donations. By the way I'm a not a firm right winger, which I have no problem with. I am an Independent. I was a liberal at one time but it looked like the Party was hijacked so I left.

[Flash]

To mthis wall thing is beyond stupid, reminiscent of the old communist USSR.

We have the tech to find a quarter on the ground through satellite. We have drones to follow people. We have facial identification. The illegal could just be picked on the other side of the border. All scary tech that could be used gently.

Trump talked of wall because it is easy to imagine for his voters.

But hey, stop the mexican, and you dry up the CIA drug revenue. You also dry up human trafficking, a larger revenue, illegal maids and gardeners, all profiting the higher middle class and the rich, etc c

[Chip]

Posted by Flash (here)
To mthis wall thing is beyond stupid, reminiscent of the old communist USSR.

We have the tech to find a quarter on the ground through satellite. We have drones to follow people. We have facial identification. The illegal could just be picked on the other side of the border. All scary tech that could be used gently.

Trump talked of wall because it is easy to imagine for his voters.

But hey, stop the mexican, and you dry up the CIA drug revenue. You also dry up human trafficking, a larger revenue, illegal maids and gardeners, all profiting the higher middle class and the rich, etc c

Correct
We have much technology.
None of which are capable of IR temperature scanning the individuals that are coming over or giving a medical evaluation to.
Of all the social/political and economic implications discussed regarding this issue, none involve the most crucial.
Diseases and the creation of Pandemics!




http://googlemapsmania.blogspot.com/...-maps.html?m=1

Metaphorically, I wonder how many more icons on this map would have been created if Bre Payton had survived her trip back from San Diego last week?

Bre Payton, conservative writer, dies at 26 after sudden illness
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bre...sudden-illness

Dr. Peter Pry gives a 31 minute audio lecture on this very topic.

Topic: The threat of a pandemic outbreak in America is real and our national security agencies are largely ignoring this real threat. Real border security not only could protect America from terrorist attacks, but also from a pandemic that can easily be brought into the United States by a flood of illegal immigrants.

https://www.worldviewweekend.com/rad...cember-30-2018

Peter Vincent Pry Bio:
https://docs.house.gov/meetings/GO/G...P-20150513.pdf

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Ratszinger (here)
Did you ever think that the real reason the left wants the wall off the table is because they want all people living here and being tied to the USA including Russians, Chinese, Iranian, Libyan, Iraqi and more. They invite them in and show them off and make sure that the world know the USA is full of all of these peoples and we are a big family of mixed cultures so therefore the world as a whole is a safer place? It's likely that when you have a foreign policy that makes enemies of every nation you deal with in the world that you need a buffer to secure your own country! So what better buffer than their own people?

What are the odds of Russia, China or Iran attacking the USA even all together when their own families live here? They'd be attacking their own and many of them by this logic. So this negates the war threat, the nuke threat and so on by simply placing their own families in the land they base their operations out of. It's that simple. The elite based their operations in a place occupied by all peoples so they could operate safely with no fear of being attacked. They can't take out the elite without taking out their own people. It's brilliant when you stop to think about it.

The left wants the wall off the table simply because Trump want to build one. Whatever excuses the dems come up with for not wanting the wall is just created to fill in the stance of the need to oppose the republicans -- this is how politics works, especially in America. No fancy conspiracy theory is even needed, especially when you consider the idea of a wall isn't even Trumps, but has been proposed several times in the past and voted for by dems several times.

American politics really is that simple and that stupid ... its a bunch of "little children" fighting - its not much about solutions or moving America forward, almost all current political structures are similar.

In the broad view, I doubt building a wall will solve the problem, and will likely just turn into a cash cow for the industries who get to build and maintain it (it will cost an awful lot to maintain).

[Flash]

A wall would never stop a flue anyhow, the prooc being that it has now crossed in Quebec and in Europe. So...

Posted by Chip (here)

Posted by Flash (here)
To mthis wall thing is beyond stupid, reminiscent of the old communist USSR.

We have the tech to find a quarter on the ground through satellite. We have drones to follow people. We have facial identification. The illegal could just be picked on the other side of the border. All scary tech that could be used gently.

Trump talked of wall because it is easy to imagine for his voters.

But hey, stop the mexican, and you dry up the CIA drug revenue. You also dry up human trafficking, a larger revenue, illegal maids and gardeners, all profiting the higher middle class and the rich, etc c

Correct
We have much technology.
None of which are capable of IR temperature scanning the individuals that are coming over or giving a medical evaluation to.
Of all the social/political and economic implications discussed regarding this issue, none involve the most crucial.
Disease!

Attachment 39678


http://googlemapsmania.blogspot.com/...-maps.html?m=1

Metaphorically, I wonder how many more icons on this map would have been created if Bre Payton had survived her trip back from San Diego last week?

Bre Payton, conservative writer, dies at 26 after sudden illness
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bre...sudden-illness

[Chip]

Posted by Flash (here)
A wall would never stop a flue anyhow, the prooc being that it has now crossed in Quebec and in Europe. So...

Posted by Chip (here)

Posted by Flash (here)
To mthis wall thing is beyond stupid, reminiscent of the old communist USSR.

We have the tech to find a quarter on the ground through satellite. We have drones to follow people. We have facial identification. The illegal could just be picked on the other side of the border. All scary tech that could be used gently.

Trump talked of wall because it is easy to imagine for his voters.

But hey, stop the mexican, and you dry up the CIA drug revenue. You also dry up human trafficking, a larger revenue, illegal maids and gardeners, all profiting the higher middle class and the rich, etc c

Correct
We have much technology.
None of which are capable of IR temperature scanning the individuals that are coming over or giving a medical evaluation to.
Of all the social/political and economic implications discussed regarding this issue, none involve the most crucial.
Disease!

Attachment 39678


http://googlemapsmania.blogspot.com/...-maps.html?m=1

Metaphorically, I wonder how many more icons on this map would have been created if Bre Payton had survived her trip back from San Diego last week?

Bre Payton, conservative writer, dies at 26 after sudden illness
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bre...sudden-illness

Hello Flash
I just noticed the audio lecture by Dr. Peter Pry, I originally intended to post was not posted. I edited it in just now and it may be of interest to listen to regarding your response.
Its and easy listen at only 30 minutes and covers the concerns I posted about in better detail.
Best to you