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Thread: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

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    Lightbulb What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    Helium 3

    It's abundant on the Dark Side of the Moon (also known as the 'far side')..

    Helium-3 equals Billions of $$$ (or trillions of Yuan).

    Why? MINING for some very valuable substances.

    It is a CLEAN nuclear FUSION fuel source.

    It is abundant on the dark side of the moon because it comes in from the Solar Wind and is captured with the lunar material dust.. It is not radioactive and potentially there would be no dangerous nuclear waste products as happen with conventional fission reactors.

    Israel's vehicle, "Genesis" will be landing shortly, and China's Chang'e-4 probe has just touched down.

    China states it will be exploring "geologically interesting substances" and solar wind.

    The geological interesting substances are Helium-3 and studying the solar wind to see how much Helium-3 is deposited in a certain amount of time.

    The Chinese probe is outfitted with a Rover (mobile platform) to allow it to move about to take samples for analysis. Taking adequate samples allows an "inventory" of this virtually priceless nuclear fuel to be determined.

    The efforts by the 3 countries would establish the feasibility of "mining the moon" for important resources that would be used in future deep space missions as well as earth based energy systems (fusion reactors).

    The Chinese Helium-3 mining effort is described here: http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/s...ium-3-program/

    About three-fourths of China’s energy is now produced by coal-fired power plants, but a typical coal train of more than a kilometre long, carrying 5,000 tonnes of coal, would be replaced by just 40 grams of He-3, dramatically reducing transportation costs.

    Just eight tonnes of He-3 in fusion reactors would provide the equivalent energy of one billion tonnes of coal, burned in power stations.

    China’s has a very determined plan to bring back He-3 from the Moon.
    The currently landed Chinese probe/rover is that step that was predicted by China some years ago, that their intent is to aggressively acquire the needed raw materials for energy production.

    Background:
    He-3 is emitted from the Sun and carried throughout the Solar System by the solar winds, but is repelled by the Earth’s magnetic field, with only a tiny amount penetrating the atmosphere in cosmic dust.

    On the Moon, however, which has a weak magnetic field and no atmosphere, He-3 over the eons has been deposited in significant quantities.

    In recent years China has launched a remarkable plan not only to land on the Moon in the near future, but to industrialise it.

    At the centre of this program lies the intent to mine He-3 and bring it back to Earth. The long-term perspective, emphasised by Ouyang Ziyuan, is shared by the famous Apollo 17 astronaut and former U.S. Senator Harrison Schmitt.

    Following the December 2013 landing of China’s Yutu (Jade Rabbit) lunar rover, Schmitt observed, “China has made no secret of their interest in lunar helium-3 fusion resources..

    "In fact, I would assume that this mission is both a geopolitical statement and a test of some hardware and software related to mining and processing of the lunar regolith.” Schmitt has numerous papers and books on the prospect of lunar development and helium-3 mining, and has worked closely with the group at the University of Wisconsin which is developing helium-3 fusion technologies.

    Yutu landed as part of the Chinese robotic lunar exploration program named Chang’e, after the mythical goddess of the Moon.

    Chang’e-1, the first probe, was launched on 24 October 2007.

    It provided high resolution images of the lunar surface and data for estimating He-3 reserves. The millions of tonnes of He-3, estimated by CLEP, mean that the Moon will be the “Persian Gulf” of the solar system.
    Deep-space solar system travel potential

    China intends to use the Helium-3 in solar system exploration, manned crafts. A trip to Mars for instance would take 2 days using fusion drive engines. Constant earth-like gravity would exist when the fusion engine is in operation - 1g acceleration would induce such "normal gravity", and speeds would be achieving a maximum velocity of 3,000,000 km/h.

    Energy Generation

    Existing fusion reactor concepts are nasty. They emit a massive amount of neutrons during the fusion reaction, which destroys the materials that make up the magnetic containment vessel, and of course kill everyone in the vicinity.

    A Fusion system based on Helium-3 though is relatively clean proportionately speaking -

    A second-generation approach to controlled fusion power involves combining He-3 and deuterium. This reaction produces He-4 nuclei and high-energy protons.

    Some D-D (deuterium/deuterium) side reactions occur, producing neutrons, but upwards of 90 per cent of the energy produced is in the form of charged particles, which can be directed away from the reactor walls by magnetic fields and used for generating electricity.

    Direct Energy Conversion - Plasma charged particles from fusion can be separated by charge, using magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) or electrostatic “direct conversion”, and produce electricity directly.


    ref - MHD extraction of charged particles from Helium-3 Fusion reactor - https://www.researchgate.net/publica...NERTIAL_FUSION

    PS

    China's Chang'e-4 probe's rover is apparently out and about



    Last edited by Bob; 5th January 2019 at 21:57.

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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    As far as I know....humans are not welcome on Moon. At least that*s what I read many years ago. It is said, there are beings, star beings living there a long time already, which would not allow the human activity up there. Whereever humans appear there is only destruction.

    This is the reason why the project "a base on the moon" never became reality. Remote viewer Ingo Swan for example talked and wrote about it.

    It is hard to tell, what is the truth. We only hear and see, what they want us to hear and see.
    Last edited by Whisper; 3rd January 2019 at 18:43.

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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    Actually @Whisper, civilians, the Amateur Radio Operators and societies have been picking up signals, data, images from Lunar craft for YEARS and reporting on such. One can believe conspiracies or do the research and find out for oneself.


    ref: http://www.arrl.org/news/radio-amate...unar-satellite

    Consider it OPEN SOURCE research - fully in the light and fully monitorable and publishable by CIVILIANS who have no axe to grind.
    Some earthbound radio amateurs and sky watchers have received images from a tiny Chinese satellite now orbiting the moon. In May, China launched the DSLWP-A and DSLWP-B microsatellites — also known as Longjiang-1 and Longjiang-2 — into a lunar transfer orbit, although Longjiang-1 was apparently lost in the process and likely remains in deep Earth orbit. They were deployed as secondary payloads with the Quequiao relay satellite as part of the Chang’e 4 mission to the far side of the moon.

    DSLWP stands for “Discovering the Sky at Longest Wavelengths Pathfinder.”

    The satellite will test low-frequency radio astronomy and space-based interferometry, and while it carries Amateur Radio and educational payloads, no transponder is aboard.

    The Chang’e 4 mission will be the first-ever attempt at a soft landing on the far side of the moon. (This probe/rover has successfully landed, 3 January 2019 and its data observed.)

    The Chang’e-4 lander and rover are scheduled to launch in December.

    The Harbin Institute of Technology (BY2HIT) developed and built the DSLWP spacecraft and is overseeing that mission.

    The microsat also carries optical cameras from Saudi Arabia.

    An open telecommand protocol allows radio amateurs to take and download images.

    The spacecraft transmits on 70 centimeters (435.400/436.400 MHz) with 250/500 bps GMSK using 10 kHz wide FM single-channel data, with concatenated codes or JT4G.

    JT4 uses four-tone FSK, with a keying rate of 4.375 baud; the JT4G sub-mode uses 315 Hz tone spacing and 1,260 Hz total bandwidth.

    According to an article in GBTimes, Longjiang-2 (DSLWP-B) used its own propulsion system to slow down and enter lunar orbit, while the relay satellite “continued past the moon to its special destination.” Longjiang-2 has used a student-developed camera to take images of the moon, Mars, the sun, and other celestial objects.

    Data and images have been downloaded by hams and satellite tracking enthusiasts around the world, including the US, Brazil, China, the Netherlands, and Italy.

    The Harbin Institute of Technology team also operates LilacSat-1, a 2U Amateur Radio CubeSat launched as part of the European QB50 initiative, and LilacSat-2 (CAS-3H), an Amateur Radio and technology test satellite.

    The Queqiao communications relay satellite is required for the lunar far-side landing to facilitate communication with a not-yet-launched lander and rover because the moon’s far side never faces Earth, and some significant scientific measurements from the dark side of the moon require real-time contact with Earth.

    Queqiao was developed by the China Academy of Space Technology (CAST).

    The Harbin Institute of Technology Amateur Radio Club has invited more radio amateurs to get involved with the DSLWP mission, and QSL cards have been designed for different flight phases for amateurs who successfully receive telemetry or make contact.
    Amateur Radio operators love the challenges of getting data from probes outside of earth orbit, and reporting on them. They don't need conspiracies and the challenge of getting the data from deep space has thrill enough.

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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    Are civilians going to be mining the Moon? Sure seems likely..

    from - https://www.space.com/39398-moon-rus...gs-future.html
    A number of private companies and national governments are planning missions to the lunar surface in the next few years, and the spate of activity could lay the foundation for human outposts on Earth's nearest neighbor in the not-too-distant future.

    "It's a pretty pivotal moment, we think, for the moon, and the country, and the world," Dan Hendrickson, vice president of business development for the Pittsburgh-based company Astrobotic, said Wednesday (at the Jan. 10, 2018 workshop) at the Lunar Science for Landed Missions Workshop.
    Freight hauling business -
    Astrobotic is developing a lunar lander called Peregrine, which the company says will be able to deliver up to 584 lbs. (265 kilograms) of payload to the surface of the moon. Astrobotic has already set a price for this off-Earth transportation service — $1.2 million per kilogram of payload, or about $545,000 per pound.

    Peregrine is scheduled to make its first moon trip in early to mid-2020, and the manifest for that "Mission 1" already incorporates deals with 11 partners, Hendrickson said.
    Another company Blue Origin - A.C. Charania, manager of advanced programs at Blue Origin, laid out the basic vision for the company'"Blue Moon" lander, which he said will be capable of putting up to 10,000 lbs. (4,500 kg) of payload down on the lunar surface.

    Blue Origin aims to be ready to fly its first Blue Moon mission in "the next few years," Charania said. And that will be just the beginning..

    Blue Origin plans to mount "a cadence of missions that build a capability," Charania said at the workshop. "That's our goal. It's not just a single return; it's a return to enable a permanent presence robotically and, eventually, with humans as well."

    Moon Express (Like Federal Express on earth) - "Our vision is really to expand Earth's economic and social sphere to include the moon," Alain Berinstain, the company's vice president of global development, said during the panel discussion. "We see the moon as the Earth's eighth continent to explore and to also mine for resources, like we have with every other continent on Earth."

    Another company ISpace - iSpace's vision involves mapping lunar resources with swarms of rovers, which the company will deliver to the moon, iSpace spacecraft system engineer Jamie Denniston.

    Big Government plans - National governments are also interested in assessing these resources, partly to help pave the way for crewed missions and, eventually, permanently staffed outposts on the moon. If everything goes according to plan, both NASA and Russia's Federal Space Agency, known as Roscosmos, will launch robotic prospecting missions to the lunar poles in 2022.

    NASA's effort, called Resource Prospector, doesn't have a landing site yet.

    The Russian mission — a collaboration with the European Space Agency known as Luna 27 — will target the South Pole-Aitken basin, on the moon's far side.

    Other nations aim to touch down even sooner. For example, India plans to launch its Chandrayaan-2 moon mission, which includes a rover and an orbiter, this spring.



    Helium-3 IS the prize.
    Last edited by Bob; 3rd January 2019 at 19:08.

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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    ..we will see. There is no way to proof anything from down here. Internet links are not really a proof. Only way would be to fly up there and look yourself...which is not possible. Ingo Swann did his remote viewing session on the moon for the US Government in 1975, if I remember right. He also said then...there is lots of water on the moon. You might call it conspiracie theory...but often later on the conspiracie turns out being reality.
    The future will tell us more about it......

    But me for myself, I think, the humans are not ready for any activity on other planets what so ever....not being able to handle their own one with the necessary care and respect.

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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    Hi Bob nice post.

    When I read your title I instantly thought to my self:

    What are they doing on/to the Earth?

    Thinking they where getting away from here 0.o

    But your story of the Helium-3 post is far better and very interesting.

    If they openly declare and start mining Helium-3 it will change things down here immensely.
    or
    it really will be the start of a breakaway civilisation, us being the poor old-ancient-sun-light powered left behinds
    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
    We need LEADERS who bat from the HEART!
    Rise up above them Dark evil doers, not within anger but with LOVE

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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    Bob, as far as I know, fusion has only been maintained for a few seconds. That bit of fusion has been 40 years in the making. Has there been a breakthrough I've not heard about?
    Also, doesnbt the oceans contain H3 in proportional ratio of 40 - 1 or so?

    Edit: did not want to leave this glaring mistake here for posterity. I confused He3 with tritium - H3O2. Helium is vanishingly scarce on earth...sorry for any confusion.
    Last edited by Ernie Nemeth; 4th January 2019 at 15:05.
    Forget about it

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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    Apparently Helium-3 Ernie, is able to sustain, just they don't have enough of it here on Earth to do enough experiments. I actually have a small fusion generator using deuterated plastic to create neutrons for a thorium experiment.. Not hard to do fusion, but to do fusion in a COST effective way.. Existing Helium-3 comes from the decay process of nuclear weapons material (Helium-3 is produced as a by-product of the maintenance of nuclear weapons, which could net a supply of around 15Kg a year. That is not much, and the liability of syphoning off He-3 from nuclear weapons depots and maintenance facilities may be quite a problem).



    Sunny-Side-Up - absolutely with that much energy and there not being COAL burning pollution, China is going to want to control a major resource. I like the idea of fusion drives for conventional craft. We're never going to hear it powering up anti-grav ships but wondering out loud how much energy does it take for that type of gravity drives?

    The idea of a "UPS or FEDEX" for space moving materials from earth to the moon and back with materials does have an appeal. I wonder if they will unionize?

    ----------

    University of Wisconsin has been the US leader.

    At the University of Wisconsin, researchers have developed a new small scale method of producing fusion.

    This method of producing fusion is called electrostatic confinement; a small vacuum chamber is filled with the gaseous materials at a low pressure.

    Looking at the chamber, an outer and inner grid system is contained within.

    The grids are charged such that there is a potential difference of 100kV between them.

    Ions oscillate in the center of the grid, and those Ions start to experience very high energy density, enough to force fusion upon the colliding particles. Electrostatic repulsion maintains the plasma from contacting the grids themselves.

    Deuterium and helium-3 are the components for the fusion fuel.

    ref: http://fti.neep.wisc.edu/pdf/fdm935.pdf (University of Wisconsin, Madison) - early first set of reports, 1993.

    He-3 has Energy cost ~equal to oil at $7/barrel when it is mined commercially.

    In terms of stored energy, He-3 on the Moon has ~10x as much as all economically viable supplies of fossil fuels on the Earth.

    This is why it is a commodity that China is after.
    Last edited by Bob; 3rd January 2019 at 23:38.

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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    Quote Posted by Whisper (here)
    ..we will see. There is no way to proof anything from down here. Internet links are not really a proof. Only way would be to fly up there and look yourself...which is not possible. Ingo Swann did his remote viewing session on the moon for the US Government in 1975, if I remember right. He also said then...there is lots of water on the moon. You might call it conspiracie theory...but often later on the conspiracie turns out being reality.
    The future will tell us more about it......

    But me for myself, I think, the humans are not ready for any activity on other planets what so ever....not being able to handle their own one with the necessary care and respect.
    When someone remote views a planet, I always wonder if they are seeing what is physically there from our reference point? Or are they seeing another plane or time? In other words, if we went there on a space craft ... are they seeing that? Or are they seeing an astral plane version or some other timeline?

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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    When Helium-3 gets delivered back to earth, when probes indicate the chemical make-up and the data received (even by civilians), it won't need human feet on the Moon to mine during the early expeditions. Samples are expected to be returned to earth, thereby documenting lunar landing, exploration, sampling and value of the Helium-3 potentials. They landed, no aliens stopped them. Reality.

    Remote viewing is a cute phenomenon which requires the operator get themselves out of the equation, and get themselves out of "group think", be it conspiracy think, or science think, or public pub-talk conversations. Going into Ingo Swann and RV'ing the moon is off topic and deviates that a scientific exploration craft IS there and IS exploring. Reality once again.



    I'd trust equipment made by very skilled scientists over a remote viewer any day - it's the science verses voodoo mentality that comes up quite clearly. I actually worked on equipment that was destined for the lunar lander back in 1969. Held it in my own hands. Did I believe the equipment was destined for where it was contracted for, paid for? Yes I did.

    Investors are buying into getting there (the moon) with equipment to sample the regolith (https://curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/letss/regolith.pdf).

    If the volumes of a commodity prove to be accurate, and such can be projected into perceived wealth (a commodity converted into service for the People, or converted into something an investor can horde to speculate on driving the price up by maintaining scarcity of the commodity, or witholding it from commerce), most certainly the commodity will be mined.

    Historically on earth, investors have put their wealth where it can generate more wealth for them - sometimes there is a short turn around or sometimes a long turn around.

    I find it interesting that Israel and India are moving towards getting onto the lunar surface and eventually setting up mining to stake their claims by one who has explored something "valuable".

    Staking a claim to a commodity happens all the time on earth, the ocean bottoms, the arctic and antarctic..

    Only through mutual treaty would folks be able to peacefully conquer a new territory and extract its resources.

    History has proven itself both for the investor and for the conqueror.. A member suggests that there are aliens there who won't let it be mined, that the moon is off-limits for humans.

    That viewpoint doesn't seem to stop the investment groups who are backing traveling there to actually do claim staking (by rover vehicle traveling and sampling territory, or following the rules of "prospecting".)

    China has demonstrated how aggressively it will protect its "perceived" territory in the South China Sea, willing to start a war against anyone who challenges its so called sovereign right to seize territory on earth. What is going to stop China from setting up military facilities to prevent others from mining Helium-3 within its discovery areas?

    Is the US Space Force going to be the determining factor preventing China from "stealing" the resources on the moon? Is stealing the right word? The one who conquers takes the spoils of the land, right? https://www.space.com/41943-space-fo...oon-space.html

    The technology is clearly demonstrated to get there, to be able to land and have rover vehicles deployed, without having to have any astronauts present on the moon controlling them. It can be seen from the Mars rover's how successful a vehicle can travel, take samples, and report back to those on earth what is found.

    Lay folk don't have to "believe it one bit.."

    Seems to us, those investing when they see a profit potential and a controllable commodity do see it - the expression is "follow the money" holds quite true.. (and I suppose we could enjoy the conspiracy dramas along the way and have a laugh waiting for the 'aliens' to say get off my turf..)

    But talk is cheap, ya? Lunar travel and the science needed at the moment isn't cheap, but the potential for a massive commodity recovery effort (prospecting and mining) is sufficiently getting many companies and countries interested in getting up there, now, not way way in the future.. I don't think any of those investors believes one bit of "moon aliens" conspiracies.

    ref - prospecting, staking a claim and mining/sampling by a remote controlled lunar rover vehicle - https://www.newscientist.com/article...early-as-2020/
    Last edited by Bob; 6th January 2019 at 06:14.

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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    Bob, you sound like we all sounded back in the 1970s. You speak of straight up science, today's science, doing things of great import. But then you speak of anti-grav and fusion in the same tone - as if they are already proven technologies, which they are not. Then you go on to say aliens don't exist. So there is some pseudo- science mixed in, ya?
    Last edited by Ernie Nemeth; 4th January 2019 at 15:01.
    Forget about it

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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    I suppose Ernie - whatever exists for someone exists for someone. There are no absolutes in the human mind Ernie, obviously but beliefs.

    One person's belief may not match another's and certainty Ernie; you can appreciate that investors would go for Helium-3 as a commodity which right now would create a very valuable portfolio. I'd hedge my bet on science instead of a belief in "aliens on the moon will stop the humans from going there".

    The subject of the thread is the mining of the moon for Helium-3. It is my belief and I will reiterate what I said earlier, that INVESTORS putting their money into lunar exploration efforts have absolutely zero belief that there are "aliens on the moon who will prevent human activity from happening there". Do I believe? That's irrelevant to the thread topic, however since you asked, I've never met one, have you?

    My beliefs are great for myself. But, there are those who can't function, burn out obviously have beliefs that are incompatible with survival and quite possibly sanity - one can see it in their mannerisms, or lack thereof. It seems to me it's pretty easy to identify when a terminal has gone "silly" and uses that to try to keep what ever last threads of sanity they may have before they are totally so deep into fantasy land that electroshock to kick them into another circuit may be their only hope; hopefully they will end up in a better belief system depending on the current and voltage used. But they are in over-whelm really. That is the issue. That's their level of "cope".

    For me, having experienced unexplained anomalies first hand, and having experienced explainable anomalies I take things one step at a time objectively to try to identify first what just happened, or is happening. I just don't need a conspiracy assumption to motivate me, nor do I find it any more useful to solving a phenomena that has been perceived by equipment (that can objectively analyze). Connecting dots for real actually holds an attraction.

    We could start with a hypothesis, take observations, and apply logic and experience, to determine the most likely cause, if we are motivated to find the cause that is. Imagine the challenges to actually build something that could safely get one off the planet, out into space and back again all without damage. And then do mining operations at that, on the moon. A lot of science went into that, a lot of clear visioning, connecting dots connected and a lot of honest follow-through. No second raters are going to be able to do that, and most likely we'd see a lot of envy in those who never really experienced "high success" before.

    The investment into earth to lunar travel looks like it could be a good one, if, in-fact there really is 10X more CLEAN energy generation capability from using Helium-3 for Fusion power, basically a direct electrical output not requiring secondary heat exchanger methods, or turbines. A fusion system where the walls of the containment vessel don't require replacement due to neutron damage such as from the deuterium-tritium existing methods.

    But materials SCIENCE not voodoo, not conspiracies would generate a search for better materials for fusion reactors. The conspiracy buffs too no doubt would benefit from clean energy, Fusion Energy from Helium-3 and no doubt science won't hold it against them when they take the energy to charge up their cellphones, or electric cars, or heat their homes, or get a package sent to them from the "system" which could very well be relying on clean energy generated from a new Helium-3 fusion power system for creating the power for charging up their electric vehicles to get objects from point A to point B.

    ref: "one step at a time" - objectively.. https://www.colby.edu/biology/BI17x/expt_method.html - the experimental method. Step 1. Make observations. Step 2. Form a hypothesis. Step 3. Make a prediction. Step 4. Perform an experiment. Step 5. Analyze the results of the experiment. Step 6. Draw a conclusion. Step 7. Publish and ask for peer review to TEST and duplicate. What is "true" for one may not be "true" for others if the mind comes into play.

    ref: from Ernie's previous post, "But then you speak of anti-grav and fusion in the same tone - as if they are already proven technologies, which they are not. " - sure, I'll take the bait, (tastes like Bacon btw) well, the fusion concept actually was proven to my satisfaction and the local authorities by me in 1966, with a table top fusion device based on a pumped "helium catalyzed D-D reaction" (but not using He-3), just enough to function well enough to have adequate excess neutron yield. The device would go thermally critical if the excess energy was not removed very quickly. The design was setup to burst the output in peak "spikes", yielding a very dangerous situation. Not designed for "electrical" output, but dangerous enough to put me squarely on 'their' radar. As to anti-grav being proven to my satisfaction, locate my thread in Disclosure, it's an interesting read that's remained tucked away; it's not for this thread tho.
    Last edited by Bob; 5th January 2019 at 17:09.

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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    Expanding a bit more on post 10 above -

    Quote China has demonstrated how aggressively it will protect its "perceived" territory in the South China Sea, willing to start a war against anyone who challenges its so called sovereign right to seize territory on earth. What is going to stop China from setting up military facilities to prevent others from mining Helium-3 within its discovery areas?

    Is the US Space Force going to be the determining factor preventing China from "stealing" the resources on the moon? Is stealing the right word? The one who conquers takes the spoils of the land, right? https://www.space.com/41943-space-fo...oon-space.html
    The reason behind the observation is would China do the same on the moon? Threaten other nations for holding onto a perceived economic advantage?

    Beijing’s aggression in South China Sea is driving expansion of Southeast Asian coastguard fleets, report by an Australian think tank said.

    Japan voices in - Hydrocarbons (read economic advantage) fishing (food), and other economic advantages motivates China into expansion, literally creating "islands" to show that it is not just trying to get fluid water, but LAND, and then claim such is theirs. That which is under the land or around the land (the economic production zone) then becomes the "property" of China.. Oil/gas underground and fishing in the oceans. As China consolidates its hold in South China Sea and wields its military, economic and diplomatic leverage, smaller countries see no credible option but to work with Beijing as they would not survive the bullying in a war scenario, even if that means furthering Chinese objectives. Manila, for example, seems willing to accede to Beijing’s demand for joint development of hydrocarbon resources in the Philippines’ own exclusive economic zone.

    China uses “intimidation and coercion” against smaller nations in the region.

    Is the US getting back to the moon to defend any other country's mining of Helium-3? Is the creation of the US Space Force more about getting to the moon, than looking at protecting spy satellites from damage from foes?

    Trump remains the only one to have said in the US, we must go back to the moon, (not clarifying that we would be going there for resource mining, establishing adequate military bases for monitoring asteroids, or missile threats from any sources).. And Mr Trump pointed out not so eloquently that the US needs a SPACE focused Military (the emphasis being on the moon, not just looking at satellite attacks of Earth, or attacks on US satellites by foreign powers).

    Is the US not chiding China to stop bullying of neighboring countries because the US would rather stop China from taking over energy resources on the moon? For instance, the U.S. has refused to take sides in the territorial disputes between China and the other claimant-states in the South China Sea. The Trump administration stayed silent even when Chinese military threats forced Vietnam in March, for the second time in less than nine months, to halt oil and gas drilling on its own continental shelf on it's own territory. China prevented others from drilling and exploring in their own waters.. That is a very serious situation. Is China going to go drill within other country's waters? If so, what does that say? Nobody will defend against Chinese aggression? They have demonstrated and continued to demonstrate, invasion of other 'lands' then claiming those other lands and resources for themselves.

    Space Defence Forces -

    US defence secretary Ash Carter has urged the United States to strengthen its military partnerships in Asia to counter what he described as China’s isolationist and confrontational approach in the region and around the world. (https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...trong-military). Each of these countries are threatened by Chinese aggression - We must have the quality and quantity of forces necessary to prevent Chinese aggression if we can, and counter it if we must,” he wrote in the report which looks at America’s strategy in Asia. “We must also continue to build stronger military partnerships in the region, with established allies such as Japan, South Korea and Australia as well as newer partners such as Vietnam and India.”

    And that moves to another potentially priceless commodity grab, Helium-3 on the lunar surface (and quite possibly to some depth yet unknown)..

    Back in August 2018 Mattis pointed out " [..] "We are not initiating this. We are saying we will be able to defend our satellites in space. At the same time, if someone is going to try to engage in space with military means, we will not stand idly by. We don't intend to militarize space. However, we will defend ourselves in space if necessary." He did not say this meant the U.S. would respond to a satellite attack by attacking the aggressor's satellites or with any other use of force.

    But that scenario is one that worries many who have warned that space could become the next global battlefield. The U.S. military has worked on anti-satellite weaponry in the past but has no deployed weapon dedicated to that mission today.

    Asked later to elaborate on how the U.S. would respond to an attack on a satellite, Mattis said he preferred to maintain ambiguity.

    "I don't tell adversaries in advance what we will do or what we will not do," he said. "We will not stand idly by if someone tried to deny us the use of space." China demonstrated it could take out an observational satellite from the ground for instance.

    Looking at the "diversion", the mis-direction, and China's current activities of blocking countries from mining their own resources, watching China knock out satellites as a threat misses the boat. China IS on the moon currently and carrying out its program of mapping out the economic worth of a currently virtually priceless commodity - Helium-3. China needs energy and minerals and commodities for its global expansion policies.

    An Op-Ed from Space news:

    For the Chinese military, space is not about space at all. It is about information — how to ensure the [People’s Liberation Army] gets it, as well as how to ensure that an adversary does not.

    Mike Pence unveiled plans for a "US Space Force" in August 2018, saying it was needed because "our adversaries have transformed space into a war-fighting domain already".

    "China is following its own motivations and interests rather than pacing its programme in competition with anybody else," John Logsdon, founder of the Space Policy Institute at George Washington University. "In my view, China is determining for itself what it wants to do.."

    "there was the vast potential for resources, some of which could "solve human beings' energy demand for around 10,000 years at least".

    China is willing to prevent countries around the South China Sea from developing a simple commodity as natural gas and oil. A reserve at best that could produce for maybe 10-20 years per a very good well.. China though is looking at the bigger picture, a resource that could supply all of EARTH for 10,000 years at least. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at past actions of China and current activity and look at their statements about lunar mining.

    The US space-policy directive signed in December 2017 by President Trump outlined plans for manned missions to the moon and Mars and started preparations for a new space force to counter the Chinese military’s development of space weapons. These moves came after experts testified at a House Subcommittee on Space hearing in 2016 entitled “Are we losing the space race to China?” that the U.S. risked being eclipsed in the field.

    The U.S. and China are now the main contenders in a race to determine “who will be in a position to obtain the vast resources in space, secure the routes of trade and write the rules of space commerce,” said Namrata Goswami, an expert on China’s space program at Auburn University Futures Lab in Alabama.A late entrant to the space race, China conducted its first manned space flight in 2003, 42 years after the Soviet Union and the U.S. first achieved the feat.

    Since then, Chinese leaders have portrayed the conquest of space as an essential marker in the nation’s rise and backed that ambition with ready financing. China National Space Administration is the world’s best-funded space agency after NASA, and its development of military capabilities such as antisatellite weapons and its busy schedule of missions have jolted the U.S.

    This “is a competition with high strategic stakes,” said Dean Cheng, an expert on China’s space capabilities at the Washington-based Heritage Foundation.

    While space matters again to American policy makers, the U.S. effort has lost its focus, having been underfunded since the Reagan era, according to Mr. Cheng. The U.S. has had to rely on other countries to send American astronauts into space since the end of the Space Shuttle program in 2011. Timetables to put astronauts on the moon by 2023 and on Mars by 2033 look difficult to achieve, some analysts said, and could easily fall victim to shifting political priorities.

    China, she added, “is best placed to win,” thanks to a methodical program that has mapped out clearly defined objectives decades into the future.

    China's motivating drive has been to capture world-wide commodities, and resources and create financial dependencies on those who allow China to "invest" in their countries, or projects (if the projects involve energy, hydro-electric power, oil-gas, precious metals, and utility metals).
    Last edited by Bob; 4th January 2019 at 17:46.

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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    India's Helium-3 explorations -
    February 20, 2017 In New Delhi - India hopes to meet all its energy requirements from resources from the moon by 2030, according to a professor at the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), which recently launched a record 104 satellites with a single rocket, reports said on Sunday.

    Elaborating on ISRO’s future plans, Dr Sivathanu Pillai, who was formerly the chief of BrahMos Aerospace, said all of India’s energy requirements could be met through Helium 3 mined from the moon.

    “By 2030, this process target will be met,” he said while delivering the valedictory address at the three-day ORF-Kalpana Chawla Space Policy Dialogue, organised by Observer Research Foundation here on Saturday.
    Dr Pillai said that mining lunar dust, which is rich in Helium 3, is a priority programme for his organisation. He added that other countries were also working on this project and that there was enough Helium on the moon to meet the energy requirements of the entire world.

    India is concerned about its country's safety, and energy security

    Lt Gen P.M. Bali, director general of Perspective Planning, Indian Army, said that India now acknowledged the growing requirements of space technology for its national security and was beginning to put in place relevant policy and institutional frameworks.

    He pointed out that at present India possessed one of the largest constellations of communication and remote-sensing satellites covering the Asia Pacific. The launch of GSAT-7 in 2013, India’s first dedicated military satellite, was testimony to its outlook towards utilisation and exploitation of outer space for national security.

    In Zero-Hedge last year, it was pointed out that,

    Quote While the world's eyes are focused on Syria, Russia, Ukraine, and North Korea; there is another - much more tense - fight between two nuclear powers that is getting far too little attention. The world's two most populous nations, China and India, have been engaged in a border dispute for decades but in recent months it has flared once again with a Chinese Ministry of Defense official now warning explicitly that Indian troops must leave the contested Doklam area if they do not want war.

    The latest standoff started more than a month ago after Chinese troops started building a road on a remote plateau, which is disputed by China and Bhutan. Indian troops countered by moving to the flashpoint zone to halt the work, with China accusing them of violating its territorial sovereignty and calling for their immediate withdrawal.

    In 1962 their armies clashed, leading to defeat of the Indian army, and thousands of casualties on both sides. Based on the rhetoric coming out of Beijing’s state sponsored media, it appears that China is willing to replicate that conflict.
    From - https://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...al-power-25814 -

    Quote Over the past few years, China’s rapidly expanding naval presence in the Indian Ocean has created anxiety in India’s strategic community, where many believe China’s naval activism has shrunk New Delhi’s space for operational activity. For New Delhi, the bigger challenge has come from Chinese submarines in the Indian Ocean.

    In its attempts to maintain a favourable balance of naval power in the Indian Ocean, New Delhi has drawn close to Washington and Tokyo. The trilateral India–US–Japan Malabar exercises have grown in scope and complexity with the addition of more combat drills, but New Delhi has been strangely reluctant to expand the tent to accommodate the Royal Australian Navy. It is possible India might consider entering into other trilateral arrangements (possibly with France and Australia) before assenting to a large naval coalition in the Indian Ocean.
    India once again points the fingers towards Chinese aggression in Space - Lt Gen Bali also said that although India continued with a civilian orientation to its space programme, the changing regional and global realities required it to also develop military assets in space and on the ground, as an emerging regional and global power.

    He added that there was a need for a dedicated military space programme with adequate resources at its disposal because of “the changing realities in our neighbourhood”.

    Delivering a special address on “Outer space and strategic stability”, retired Lt Gen B.S. Nagal said that maintaining space stability was “very difficult” with changing warfare and space being no taboo unlike nuclear weapons.


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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    For the longest time I thought the conspiracy that we never went to the moon was a joke. Now I believe that only early drone type craft went there. The space capsule would not allow for humans to travel through high radiation. Even today NASA discusses the need to protect humans better in their new designs.

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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    "University of Wisconsin has been the US leader."

    Anybody know if China has an equivalent "leader" that has also been moving in the same direction with this type of reactor tech?

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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    We will probably find someone is already using the Moon He-3.
    It's what "they" power the Moon with to keep it in place O.0

    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
    We need LEADERS who bat from the HEART!
    Rise up above them Dark evil doers, not within anger but with LOVE

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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    Quote Posted by mojo (here)
    For the longest time I thought the conspiracy that we never went to the moon was a joke. Now I believe that only early drone type craft went there. The space capsule would not allow for humans to travel through high radiation. Even today NASA discusses the need to protect humans better in their new designs.
    Yes, now NASA talks about the problem of going through the Van Allen Radiation Belt as if they've never faced that before... strange

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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    There was no attack in my earlier post. It was meant more as a reminder that we have been played before in terms of the moon. And that the technologies that you speak of so nonchalantly are not in the text books because of the natural way they fit into the discussion and how quickly it would lead to further discoveries if it was stamped with the approval of the 'authorities'.

    Having read up on developments in the field I see that I am way out of date and for that I am sorry. (including many inaccuracies in my previous post) The fermion versus boson argument for favoring straight HE-3 reactions over deuterium He-3 reactions is an interesting idea.

    Still, the thing is why did NASA stop its manned missions to the moon? Because they never went or because they were told to or because they did not want the public to know what they found there? If it is because of secrecy, does China have to play by those rules as well? Or will they either reveal what has been hidden or dispel the grand conspiracy that some say extended even unto Kubrick himself? Is the moon a desolate inhospitable world, or are there artifacts and more to be disclosed?

    I guess the hint was too obscure. Plus at work the noise is not conducive to effective writing, and neither is my phone...
    Forget about it

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    Default Re: What are they doing on the moon? China, Israel, soon the US?

    Gut feeling Ernie, NASA and Schmitt did find the He-3 and trillions of $$$ worth of clean energy for the planet, and the conspiracy would come from those who want to manipulate energy through controlled shortages. Oil/gas for instance and of course the alternative over-unity technology.

    The Helium-3 finding and Chinese bringing it forth puts NASA in a big quagmire, getting caught and disavowing what was found, and of course no doubt feeding conspiracies to discredit any further lunar exploration. And what happens if China then creates the energy system and holds it ransom over the world?

    Harrison Schmitt, the geologist Astronaut is a key player in Helium-3, working with the University of Wisconsin.

    In 1993 there were papers published about the importance of using Helium-3, but Apollo 17 Schmitt's expedition in 1972 would have made the first discovery, later confirmed by orbiting mapping spectrometers.

    We could have easily gone back to get to the "dark side" of the moon and get into obtaining an energy source which would have put oil and gas and coal into the dark ages where they belong. But politically we were prevented from going and getting that material.

    To me it is obvious where the conspiracy resides, big oil and gas and big coal. Energy manipulation and scarcity to drive the price up. Conveniently, during the OPEC oil embargo, inflation adjusted oil prices went up from $25.97 per barrel (bbl) in 1973 to $46.35 per barrel (bbl) in 1974. Quite obvious seeing the energy squeeze and somebody(s) pocketing their ill gotten wealth.

    We could have had 10,000 years of clean energy, but that would have slammed a lot of good-ole-boy inner sanctum (wink wink) monopolies and portfolios - they most certainly DIDN'T want disruptive technology rocking their boat.

    Now China who has made it very clear it intends to dominate the world technologically and in energy and mineral wealth is up there now.. What's going to happen?

    This revealing of an ah-ha moment has been waiting since 1972 to be revealed. Finally we are starting to see what's been happening behind the scenes.. Now exactly WHO were the conspirators back then?

    President Nixon, Henry Kissinger, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney.. hmmm very key players right after the "discovery" of energy independence happened.. hmmm
    Last edited by Bob; 6th January 2019 at 05:59.

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