Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

[Flash]

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by petra (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
- you die, you see a light, you go thru the light (...and no, you don't merge with the oneness here), you meet family and friends that have passed, hang out, re-acclimate to the surroundings etc..

- you watch your previous life and feel all the feelings you caused others to feel, both good and bad. the guides and wise elders that watch along with you don't judge you...you judge yourself.

- when the time is ripe for a return, you begin to plan it out with the help of your guides and elders. they make suggestions, but you do not have to agree to them. it's all entirely up to you.

- you decide upon various lessons you need to learn (or perhaps 'remember' is the correct word to use here) all based on your actions(i.e.karma) of your previous life

- these lessons often involve great challenges, which are designed into the plan

That sounds so sneaky and tricky, I'm sorry. This is how it looks through cynical eyes:

- You get tricked into going into the light by things that look like your relatives but are (obviously) not...
- You judge yourself based off propaganda, and feelings that may or may not be real...
- You create up your own lesson plan based off the propaganda, without having any experience whatsoever in creating lesson plans
- End result? Lessons learned, but not the lessons you intended....
- Lather, rinse, repeat.

EDIT: I think my cynicism is a lot to do with not wanting to be God or play God. I'd really rather hire a professional to do my lesson plan for me. If God's not available, I'd let Jesus do it I suppose :/

Hi Petra, there are quite a few people who feel the same as you. Cynicism, especially in the alternative community, is something I *do* understand!

I consider the possibility of the scenario you described once in a while. But I have no real reason to believe it's true. I haven't read that book where hundreds of people are hypnotically regressed and they all report being lied to, or taken advantage of, or manipulated etc. I just keep seeing books that report countless positive and loving experiences. I'm just following the trail of evidence that's been laid out before me.

I recall John Lear talking about structures on the moon hijacking and recycling souls and so forth. I can't think of anyone else off hand. And in our community, all it takes is one guy to say something like that...and a large group of people will embrace it immediately and completely disregard all the evidence to the contrary(I'm not suggesting you are one of these people).

Oh, and I totally get what you mean about not wanting to play God....i have that same sort of feeling sometimes.

You know, everything that we hear or even see has to be taken with a grain of salt. Being suspicious is the right way of thinking in view of the crap going on around.

I think the only way to progress in these realms is through experiential happenings. We have to live the experiences, those are the only more or less sure things (at least, it is lived, but an hallucinating schizophrenic could also say the same).

To me, there is a few conditions I look at with my skeptic eye. The experience has to be in the "knowing" sphere. Not coming from exalted beliefs - mystics are as much aside the point as anybody else, I think. There has to be no beliefs, just knowing, seeing, no judgment, no evaluation as it is happening - later we may evaluate, but it is absent during the experience.

Another condition is that there is no nightmares, no huge bad feelings. Discomfort may happen because these experiences are not of this realm, but nothing more.

A third condition: it has to give me, in my 3D experience, something new, or help me go forward in a positive manner. No positive change = falsity in the experience. Something positive has to have changed.

I think that our higher self, or soul, is always positive, in fact, it does not have this dichotomy of good and bad, at that level it does not exist. But at the human and the astral levels, we are in duality and the dichotomy does exist. We have to aim at higher than the astral and mental levels to get out of this dichotomy. As long as there is judgment, evaluations, something that seems destructive, the experience can be discarded or at least looked upon with lots of skepticism.

Ex: I hear something from someone, and for 3 months I have huge bouts of crying (discomfort), I do not know why. Then 3 months later I stop having those bouts and realize that I grew a lot emotionally, enough to change my behavior towards my daughter (positive results). This was a grace brought to me, not a bad thing.

Ex: I have what seems to be a descent of energy in me and I look around and see all the people's energies in terms of lights. Strong lights, weak lights, enveloped in light or just the "langues de feu - fire tongues as seen in the old paintings of Jesus disciples") .No judgment, no evaluation, no bad feeling, just a bit of discomfort because it is unusual, and positive results by becoming more apt to discern through light and beings in truth versus regular or negative beings.

Ex: I have a dream about ET, with missing time, and I see a cloning apparatus with a foot in it. Ask the woman doing the work what it is, ask her what they did of the soul and she answer "just a cloning" as if she does not understand. I shake her to have an answer and then realized she has no soul, she is a clone. This experience may have happened or not, maybe true on 3D or astral levels (4D) but it is certainly not spiritual, has nothing to do with it. It is highly uncomfortable, even bit scary, did not change anything in me but create fear (negative results), I was judging and evaluating during the experience, not a "knowing" experience. This is most probably at the astral level and can be discarded for the search of truth in spiritually advanced learnings. This will not teach me anything about higher self or life after death.

Believe it or not, I use the same criteria when under hypnosis to look at past lives, or when talking with people on daily life, or when having deemed spiritual experiences. I would apply the same for looking at pre-birth plans. And yes, I do wonder why my life was so complicated when we can also learn in joy. Why would I have chosen this life???

But I have eternity to correct those misunderstandings of mine.

[Flash]

Posted by petra (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
Hi Petra, there are quite a few people who feel the same as you. Cynicism, especially in the alternative community, is something I *do* understand!

I consider the possibility of the scenario you described once in a while. But I have no real reason to believe it's true. I haven't read that book where hundreds of people are hypnotically regressed and they all report being lied to, or taken advantage of, or manipulated etc. I just keep seeing books that report countless positive and loving experiences. I'm just following the trail of evidence that's been laid out before me.

I recall John Lear talking about structures on the moon hijacking and recycling souls and so forth. I can't think of anyone else off hand. And in our community, all it takes is one guy to say something like that...and a large group of people will embrace it immediately and completely disregard all the evidence to the contrary(I'm not suggesting you are one of these people).

Oh, and I totally get what you mean about not wanting to play God....i have that same sort of feeling sometimes.

My problem (or my soul's problem?) is that I don't want anything, and that alone had me start questioning if I even have a "soul" at all. Well I'm pretty sure that I do, and although I've no idea what i want, I DO have a very good idea of what I don't want.

I've been thinking about it a lot, and I'm actually SO CYNICAL that I feel like God owes me an apology! Pretty arrogant of me, hey? I imagined if God asked me to forgive him (for creating me) would I forgive him? I really don't think I would.

I've got a bone to pick with God. Maybe that's why I don't want to come back here....

Well, nobody owes anybody any apologies at higher levels, including God as you say but why not make this experiment:

See it as a game that was played on you and truly forgive the creator(s) of the game because it was a child (children) not measuring the consequences. And just wait and see what will happen. Wait and observe.

Out of curiosity and love for myself, and for fun, but with true forgiveness, I would do that. And wait.

[Dennis Leahy]

Maybe someone should start a (different) thread, for discussion of those who don't believe/feel/think that pre-birth planning is a thing, or that it is a trick, or that you have a better idea of what happens after death than the info laid out by Schwartz, Newton, etc. I know it's kind of tempting to say we are going to discuss any aspect of a topic, including its disbelief, all in one thread, but it is kind of frustrating when the "nays" sort of overpower a thread.

[Caliban]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
Maybe someone should start a (different) thread, for discussion of those who don't believe/feel/think that pre-birth planning is a thing, or that it is a trick, or that you have a better idea of what happens after death than the info laid out by Schwartz, Newton, etc. I know it's kind of tempting to say we are going to discuss any aspect of a topic, including its disbelief, all in one thread, but it is kind of frustrating when the "nays" sort of overpower a thread.

I think that's a little extreme, unless of course the OP wants just that. I can understand not getting into ultimate reality in a thread like this, but to cover all the aspects of a thread/video/etc. seems like what threads are designed for. In that regard this thread is balanced. There's negativity and outright sabotage too, but I don't see that here.

I just think that we've heard this story over and over again and something obviously doesn't sit right with some of us about it. Why that is, I'm not sure. But then those who feel the truth of it could work a little harder, if they choose, to persuade.

[Flash]

Posted by Caliban (here)

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
Maybe someone should start a (different) thread, for discussion of those who don't believe/feel/think that pre-birth planning is a thing, or that it is a trick, or that you have a better idea of what happens after death than the info laid out by Schwartz, Newton, etc. I know it's kind of tempting to say we are going to discuss any aspect of a topic, including its disbelief, all in one thread, but it is kind of frustrating when the "nays" sort of overpower a thread.

I think that's a little extreme, unless of course the OP wants just that. I can understand not getting into ultimate reality in a thread like this, but to cover all the aspects of a thread/video/etc. seems like what threads are designed for. In that regard this thread is balanced. There's negativity and outright sabotage too, but I don't see that here.

I just think that we've heard this story over and over again and something obviously doesn't sit right with some of us about it. Why that is, I'm not sure. But then those who feel the truth of it could work a little harder, if they choose, to persuade.

Caliban: I do see it as a bit extreme too, but, on the other hand, nobody wants to convince anybody of pre-plan birth or life after death. Those are mostly experiential stuff, if someone did not experience it, it becomes either a belief based on other people experiences or a probability/possibility. In all cases, persuading someone is not involved, except if it is to make it into a belief which becomes like a religion.

Anyhow, I will tell my experiences, anybody can believe them, but i do not advise it. Rather get opened to the possibility so that you are the master of your own discoveries over time.

[Caliban]

Posted by Flash (here)

Posted by Caliban (here)

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
Maybe someone should start a (different) thread, for discussion of those who don't believe/feel/think that pre-birth planning is a thing, or that it is a trick, or that you have a better idea of what happens after death than the info laid out by Schwartz, Newton, etc. I know it's kind of tempting to say we are going to discuss any aspect of a topic, including its disbelief, all in one thread, but it is kind of frustrating when the "nays" sort of overpower a thread.

I think that's a little extreme, unless of course the OP wants just that. I can understand not getting into ultimate reality in a thread like this, but to cover all the aspects of a thread/video/etc. seems like what threads are designed for. In that regard this thread is balanced. There's negativity and outright sabotage too, but I don't see that here.

I just think that we've heard this story over and over again and something obviously doesn't sit right with some of us about it. Why that is, I'm not sure. But then those who feel the truth of it could work a little harder, if they choose, to persuade.

Caliban: I do see it as a bit extreme too, but, on the other hand, nobody wants to convince anybody of pre-plan birth or life after death. Those are mostly experiential stuff, if someone did not experience it, it becomes either a belief based on other people experiences or a probability/possibility. In all cases, persuading someone is not involved, except if it is to make it into a belief which becomes like a religion.

Anyhow, I will tell my experiences, anybody can believe them, but i do not advise it. Rather get opened to the possibility so that you are the master of your own discoveries over time.

Yes, persuade was the wrong word. I meant having a dialogue. It's a very, very profound topic. I think it's more complex than most people present it. Why do you never hear of someone saying, "Look, thanks, you're great, but I don't want your advice. Peace out." ? What fascinates me about it is the whole master/student, authority/novice polarities. But that's just me.

[Flash]

Starting minute 28:00 Dan Milman - the way of the peaceful warrior - speaks about pre-birth planning

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=PYIlpW28OQY

[onawah]

If you Google "devices that recycle souls on the Moon" quite a lot of links will show up.
Gurdjieff cautioned his followers about becoming "food for the Moon" and he was speaking in quite literal terms (though not about an actual mechanism on the Moon--he wasn't really very specific) or about our physical bodies, but more about our energy, our self-awareness, our memories, etc.
don Juan Matus spoke of the metaphorical Eagle which devours those who have not learned how to fly past it to freedom at the time of death (though he doesn't mention the Moon.)

Assuming that reincarnation is not just a trap of some kind, or something that is actually transcended easily, then I agree with DNA about the Michael Teachings. They are very detailed and make so much sense.
I think some of the post-Yarbro teachers and channelers have done good work too, but the core teachings really are very complete.

I've read that our spirit guides are sometimes the souls of people in our soul group who know us well, and who can therefore predict how well or poorly we might do in the situations we are considering taking on. And that often, souls will perform that service for each other.
[QUOTE=Mike;1269540]

Posted by petra (here)

I recall John Lear talking about structures on the moon hijacking and recycling souls and so forth. I can't think of anyone else off hand. And in our community, all it takes is one guy to say something like that...and a large group of people will embrace it immediately and completely disregard all the evidence to the contrary(I'm not suggesting you are one of these people).

[greybeard]

Endeavouring to have the qualities set out on the initial post will make Enlightenment more likely to happen.
Enlightenment happening will automatically bring unconditional love--no agenda -compassion, egoless etc.
Comes with the package so to speak.
Oneness, im not fond of that word, is as miss-understood as the word god.
Its older than time..
Certainly not New-age.
Up to people to find out for them selves,
Chris

Ps One without a second is probably the best pointer as set out in Advaita text.

[Olam]

I just want to mention this is the best thread ever for me.!
Its for me one of those moments where everything happens with divine timing.
I tried to participate a few times in this thread but what was written did not express what I felt so I deleted.
It stirs very complex emotions, feelings which for now I cannot write.
Thanks so much for everyone's replies...

[greybeard]

If more people realized the implication of "We are not the body" then we would have a more peaceful and compassionate world.
Spirit is formless and has no gender or race.
So in this life time we may take on a male body and persona.
Last time time we might have taken on a female role.
So when you know this there can be no animosity towards the other.
Race, gender, sexuality all the seeming differences are only temporally relevant.
If we need a blood transfusion we accept it without inquiring who it came from..
Nothing to go on about.

Chris

[greybeard]

This link gives a context to the Journey of the soul.
Incarnation from the beginning--the ongoing evolution therefore the Pre-Birth Plan to keep the upward spiritual momentum.
The Golden age coming---as happened before--all cyclic.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1269694

[petra]

Posted by Flash (here)

Well, nobody owes anybody any apologies at higher levels, including God as you say but why not make this experiment:

See it as a game that was played on you and truly forgive the creator(s) of the game because it was a child (children) not measuring the consequences. And just wait and see what will happen. Wait and observe.

Out of curiosity and love for myself, and for fun, but with true forgiveness, I would do that. And wait.

That's what I'm doing, or at least trying.
"Wait and observe", ha ha. My thoughts tell me to "Wait and see" but essentially you're saying the same thing.

The more I considered my feelings, the more funny they got!!. Aren't WE supposed to ask God for forgiveness, and not the other way around?! Yesterday I felt SO resentful, as if I'd never be able to forgive God, but today I feel a little bit closer to forgiveness (I'm not ready to forgive yet but I think it's possible)

[lake]

A quote from a real crap film:

What does it take to change the nature of a man?

Well it would seem....Greater knowledge and a willingness to accept it, even if it is unpalatable!

So I was wrong.

You CAN have a pre-birth plan.......if?

And I shall leave the 'if' for the time being as it may be rather sour tasting to many.

On an aside....The 'time' between lives!

Most 'Old Knowledge' states 1500 - 2000 years between reincarnations as it is required for the 'World' to change sufficiently that an incarnation will be of value!

But within each length of 'time'.... one may incarnate as a man, women, master, slave etc so multiple times....BUT mostly twice within 2000 years.

Thing is that the speed of change within this realm has and is increasing. So 30 years ago, life was different and 50 years from that, again it was very different.
Now 10 years from now would be a totally different structure of society (if humans haven't confined themselves to the trans human cloud)....so I can see that thousands of years are no longer required before reincarnation.

[Joe Akulis]

Lake, I might need to go back and re-read Helen Wombach's book again, but I'm pretty sure her research showed that as the population has increased over the last couple thousand years, the length of time in between incarnations for everyone she studied was decreasing.

I figured it had a lot to with with waiting lines and opportunity, but that's just my guess. Worth a read.

[Valerie Villars]

Mike, did Rob Schwartz get back with you on that ET question? I am really curious about that, as having encountered them, and having same kind of throw me for a loop, I would love to know the answer.

Are they angels? Are they demons? Are they both? Sheryl Crow talks about them in one of her songs. "I swear they're out there. I swear they're out there. Maybe angels."

[Mike]

Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
Mike, did Rob Schwartz get back with you on that ET question? I am really curious about that, as having encountered them, and having same kind of throw me for a loop, I would love to know the answer.

Are they angels? Are they demons? Are they both? Sheryl Crow talks about them in one of her songs. "I swear they're out there. I swear they're out there. Maybe angels."

no, never heard back, regrettably.

but here's something interesting and synchronistic:
i bought a book from a used bookstore maybe 6 weeks ago. i had forgotten the title, but remembered vaguely that it was about reincarnation or something along those lines. I let my sister borrow it, and she just returned it today. It's Schwartz's book "Courageous Souls"...and it's autographed LOL.

[greybeard]

"Many lives many masters"
Dr Brian Weiss.
A great book.
Chris

[Valerie Villars]

Amazing. As ties in with your other thread on back-drop people, some day we will meet in an odd, out of the way place, like an A&P and laugh over all the dumb stuff we have thought and done over the years.

The book is much better than the videos. I remember I was uncomfortable with some of the concepts dealt with in the book when it first came out. Remember, I was bought up in the South, as a nice and wicked little Roman Catholic girl who was on her knees at the Stations of the Cross, wondering what I could have possibly done to sin so badly I had to ask for forgiveness.

But, as the years have rolled on and experience has taught me a few things, many of the concepts in that book have been comforting to me and proven weirdly true over the years. It's good, positive stuff.

[AutumnW]

Posted by chris_walker (here)
I tend to go along with this view these days. It explains a lot, a hell of a lot.
https://ascensionglossary.com/index.php/Loosh
Robert Monroe, in his book “Far Journeys,” writes of contact he had with a light being in an out-of-body experience. (Monroe is arguably the world’s foremost researcher on OBEs; he started an institute with trainee/researchers to scientifically investigate the phenomenon.) Reportedly the light being told Monroe that when humans die, their energy is released and harvested by trans-dimensional beings, who use it to extend their own life spans. The claim is that the universe is a garden created by these beings as their food source.

According to Monroe’s story, animals are intentionally positioned on this planet to feed on plants and on each other, thereby releasing the life force of their victims so it can be harvested. In a predator-prey struggle, exceptional energy is produced in the combatants. The spilling of blood in a fight-to-the-death conflict releases this intense energy, which the light beings call “loosh.” Loosh is also harvested from the loneliness of animals and humans, as well as from the emotions engendered when a parent is forced to defend the life of its young. Another source of loosh is humans’ worship.

According to Monroe’s informant, our creators, the cosmic “energy farmers,” intentionally equipped animals with devices like fangs, claws and super-speed in order to prolong predator-prey combat and thereby produce more loosh. In other words, the greater the suffering, the more life force is spewed from our bodies, and the tastier the energy meal for our creators.

This story told to Monroe (which threw him into a two-week depression) corresponds to reports in some of the world’s oldest scriptures, the Vedas, Upanishads, and Puranas of India. There we read that “the universe is upheld by sacrifice” (Atharva Veda) and that “all who are living (in this world) are the sacrificers. There is none living who does not perform yagya (sacrifice). This body is (created) for sacrifice, and arises out of sacrifice and changes according to sacrifice.” (Garbha Upanishad)

I loved Munroe's books and was particularly interested in the "loosh." But who knows if whatever Munroe was told was true. The esoteric realm seems to be full of contradictory stories, revelations that turn out to be bogus etc...What I took away from that particular story was the light being wanted Munroe to "loosh" his mind! Elfin spirits are mischievous and prone to bull***. They derive pleasure from messing with our minds. Why? Who knows. Same reason some people like to fake out border collies by throwing a frisbee several times and then pretending to throw one to confuse them!

And another thing about this story, it misses something about predator prey, sharp claws, teeth to increase suffering. Traumatic injury often doesn't hurt very much. It might be a more agonizing to be slowly massaged to death.

I am very suspicious of stories regarding afterlife tricks and grotesqueries visited upon us as that seems strikingly out of balance and unjust. Intuitively, I feel the bedrock of our extended many lives experience is justice and the guides we meet after death are there to promote that.