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Thread: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

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    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    That's what the Wingmaker material asserts as well.
    Quote Posted by Savannah (here)
    Souls do seem to experience a between lives state that may be just as unreal as the matrix they are currently living in. All these memories are correct but does that mean we have found the true meaning of life or just the religion /belief system many follow after death. Are we just deluded about what this (existence/physical life) is all about there as we are here?
    Each breath a gift...
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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Hi Chris

    My question would then be: how could someone that is "unrealized", like myself, even begin to identify someone who is realized if I have no idea what I'm looking for?

    Truth may not be a concept or opinion, but having not arrived at it yet, that's all most of us can offer.

    As far as the truth about soul plans and so on, I think this guy Schwartz is on to something. I think some version of some of the things he describes are true. Which ones and to which degree, I'm not sure.
    Mike investigate
    Look at Tims thread or go here
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnl...NiFlTWFb0sEUDg
    Buddha at the gas pump hundreds off awakenning people interviewed
    or Conscious TV
    http://www.conscious.tv/

    It takes time to investigate but there is a common factor running through all the accounts of awakening--separation is an illusion--ego is transcended
    Awakening has to become a priority--time spent meditating will bring "personal" proof that the mystics are telling the Truth.
    Chris
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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    Quote Posted by Savannah (here)
    Souls do seem to experience a between lives state that may be just as unreal as the matrix they are currently living in. All these memories are correct but does that mean we have found the true meaning of life or just the religion /belief system many follow after death. Are we just deluded about what this (existence/physical life) is all about there as we are here?
    I think life here on earth and the life between incarnations are both part of the incarnation cycle (which I think of as the sleeping / spiritually 'dead' state) we're in until we reach enlightenment. In enlightenment is where I think the reincarnation cycle is ended and the full spiritual potential will be enabled at a certain point (which I see as the awakened / spiritually 'alive' state). For me this state is the true meaning of life. Being reunited with the grand Creator, fully enabled spiritually, for eternity, being as God, with ability to e.g. create universes, (de)-materialize, travel inter-universally.

    I've recently come to understanding that we have both a soul and a spirit. Peter Novak wrote about this and other things, and it felt true to me.

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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    I would respectfully point out that Truth is known.
    It is experiential as pointed to in Tim's thread that I linked early on.
    Truth is not a concept or opinion
    Any number of Self realized point to Truth in this era--and the number is growing rapidly because the Universe is bringing this about.
    If a person is serious about Enlightenment then they must spend the time imbibing the pointing/teaching of those who are Self Realize.
    Chris


    Chris
    No offense Chris, but I cringe every time you write one of these fortune cookie posts.

    You are a smart guy, but posting like this is an exercise in "I'm the guru, I can show you the way, stop thinking about it so much and just listen to me".

    Phrases like "Truth is not a concept or opinion". Really? No offense but when did you fall off the messiah truck and offer your benevolent healing touch?
    I'm all about your posts when you contribute to the conversation but the whole preaching path is beneath you bro.

    Hell, I don't even think you take the time to write half of these Buddhist quotes, the fact that you double wrote your name leads me to believe this was a cut and paste, and if it was a cut and paste as such how much can it really have to do with this thread?
    Im dyslexic DNA so double writing bame some times happens.
    I ont take offence but im not pointing to the threa I started years ago but to others where Truth is evident.
    Perhaps you have not visited Tim.s thread
    Or read I am That be Nisargadatta.
    You may say im brain washed because I have been reading about spirituality or looking at videos for over thirty years daily.
    Reach to their own
    It comes down to the Truth that I exist and I dont need anything exterior to know that.
    Im not enlightened so not qualified to be a teacher--I continuously point to those who are.
    Sorry about that--laughing.

    Chris
    Ps have not corrected dyslexic mistakes which I normally do.
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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Quote Posted by lake (here)
    ...
    Sorry but this is nothing more than a rehash of the first "New Age Movement"
    Literally it is small part truth and a major presentation of money making lies.

    ...

    Let me ask you.... When and where are 'souls' born? And please do not say that they always have been as it is meaningless.

    ...
    There is no scientific laboratory study of spirit life between incarnations, or even just "spirit afterlife." The closest thing to a scientific study that I know of was conducted on live subjects, about 7000 of them, by Michael Newton. Subjects were induced into a state where they remembered time spent between incarnations, and Newton noted similarities and differences in the 7000 subjects' recounting of their non-incarnate experiences, and wrote several books that were the culmination of his research.

    As Chris has stated, the truth is One; there really are no separate souls. Any separateness is illusion. Yet, (if you trust that Newton was honest and accurate in his reporting), it appears that we "individual souls" meet-up both in the spirit plane and in incarnate form. So all of the 7000 subjects still fell for the illusion of having a separate soul (separate from the One) even while in spirit form. Further, none could describe God/Source other than in nebulous terms, but the very fact that they were aware of Source outside of themselves is yet another illusory division. (They felt Source as an exterior agent/entity/energy, rather than describing spirit world as immersion in Source by being Source.) So, living in the spirit realm as an individual spirit is still not Enlightenment (union with Source.) Since we are in an illusory state even in spirit form, it doesn't surprise me that we don't know the mechanism by which Source farts-out a "soul", and gives it self-awareness. All Newton's 7000 subjects were (like probably almost every one of us), still caught in the illusion of separateness.
    Thanks Dennis you say it more eloquently that I can.
    Ramana Mharshi said, that as long as the belief is held that a separate entity is striving for one ness then enlightenment will not happen.
    The striving gets in the way--discover what you are already.
    The awareness of the "I" that exists without any exterior,eternal proof.
    The I that is unchanged by events--this is the eternal Self that is actually so obvious its overlooked, taken for granted.
    Everyone know that "I" exists
    In the bible God said "I am that I am" its that simple but not easy.

    DNA the nature of the "beast" is Scorpio--you know that nature well, my brother, smiling

    C
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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    I would respectfully point out that Truth is known.
    It is experiential as pointed to in Tim's thread that I linked early on.
    Truth is not a concept or opinion
    Any number of Self realized point to Truth in this era--and the number is growing rapidly because the Universe is bringing this about.
    If a person is serious about Enlightenment then they must spend the time imbibing the pointing/teaching of those who are Self Realize.
    Chris
    Oh....oh well....ok then.......sorry

    I didn't realise.......I have read the thread by Tim but I comprehend now that IT IS THE TRUTH

    Again sorry, I shall stop considering my own experiences and take another's as mine.

    So thats good then....all done and dusted


    Quote Posted by lake (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    But instead of offering cryptic questions, I'd encourage you to please offer your opinion! It's welcome and encouraged. You're not hurting my feelings, I assure you.
    Ok thanks Mike....I will put together my thoughts on the subject and post maybe tomorrow (as it is getting late here)
    Not much point in my doing that now Mike lol. It's all here mate:

    Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Sorted....... Think I will go for a beer then as there is nothing more to consider!
    Truth is not a concept or opinion, the Truth is known.

    Damn it, I have wasted so much of this life considering, thinking and having an opinion should have just collected other humans thoughts and taken them as mine.

    Oh well what is done is done....but there would seem to be no 'I' to blame....so I have that going for me, which is nice
    Normal..!

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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    Lake your not done "yet"

    The Truth has been attested to by Tim and many others, but now you need to know it for your"Self", through your own experience.

    In this duality its up to the seeming individual to follow the finger pointing or not as they choose to do so and enjoy the interaction with "others."

    At the end of the original post video there is a description of awakening by the author.
    Thats a good place for anyone to start if they are so inclined.
    There are many ways to climb the mountain.

    He sure has helped a lot of people with his investigation which has been quite thorough.

    Chris
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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    Why do I feel like this thread has been diverted from a discussion of the soul's journey (relative reality) to a discussion of enlightenment (ultimate reality) ?

    There are threads specifically created for the latter; the OP I'm sure had an intention by posting in the direction they did. Both are valid and related but there are differences.

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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    Quote Posted by Caliban (here)
    Why do I feel like this thread has been diverted from a discussion of the soul's journey (relative reality) to a discussion of enlightenment (ultimate reality) ?

    There are threads specifically created for the latter; the OP I'm sure had an intention by posting in the direction they did. Both are valid and related but there are differences.
    Yes this is true, the ultimate versus the immediate.

    The ultimate view is nirvana, merging with creation, see it the way you think/feel.

    However, most of us (99.9999999%) came here for basic soul mission/development that are in fact quite simple. Which is called virtues in the OP video. No grandiose stuff.

    Because those smaller step lead to the bigger one in aons (although everything is happening in a constant happening, no time).

    I truly like the OP's video. It is simple and in my views very glued to the truth for the 99.9999999% of us.

    It would be simple also to mention, for each one of us, which virtue we feel we came in this world at this time period to develop further.

    Personally, I think one of the virtue I came to develop was further opening of the heart with true compassion without expectations of what might or should be (ego tamed not to intervene). My daughter's handicap were a tremendous help for this.

    The other virtue would be integrity within myself, centering towards inner integrity - which also means in practical life standing up towards inner integrity. No lies, inner or outer, transparency paired with genuine protection when needed, etc. Life with some narcissists were like intense fast track learning in these.

    Communication would be a third one. With individuals and crowds. I think this one is to prepare for other lives. But also I had to go through great shyness to achieve that goal, which was helping to implement the second virtue as well.

    What about your soul plans, Avalon members??
    Last edited by Flash; 8th January 2019 at 18:11.
    How to let the desire of your mind become the desire of your heart - Gurdjieff

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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    Quote Posted by Caliban (here)
    Why do I feel like this thread has been diverted from a discussion of the soul's journey (relative reality) to a discussion of enlightenment (ultimate reality) ?

    There are threads specifically created for the latter; the OP I'm sure had an intention by posting in the direction they did. Both are valid and related but there are differences.


    thank you sir

    I don't mind a little diversion on threads I start, if the conversation is still productive, but I do agree with you here.

    In fairness, i did ask Lake to elaborate on his post yesterday, which he kindly did. Thanks Lake.

    But Lake, you do realize that Tim's post sounds every bit as new agey as mine! That doesn't mean it's in any way not valid, it simply means that the 'new age' movement has co-opted elements from all over the place to form it's religion, including buddhist concepts and between-lives research stuff. We're all victims of that in various ways. They've just added a whole bunch of fluff to discredit it all - purposely or not - and we can't let em get away with that. Of course i knew the video was new-agey! But it shouldn't be disqualified because of that - there's too much value in there imo.

    I don't think what Tim and yourself and what Chris are saying here runs contrary to the video. Concepts like we are all one, and returning to source and enlightenment seem to represent the pinnacle of the evolution of the human spirit. But to get there it appears we reincarnate many many times over. In between those incarnations we supposedly make detailed plans with spirit guides and wise elders for our next life....and that's what this thread is about

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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Quote Posted by Caliban (here)
    Why do I feel like this thread has been diverted from a discussion of the soul's journey (relative reality) to a discussion of enlightenment (ultimate reality) ?

    There are threads specifically created for the latter; the OP I'm sure had an intention by posting in the direction they did. Both are valid and related but there are differences.
    Yes this is true, the ultimate versus the immediate.

    The ultimate view is nirvana, merging with creation, see it the way you think/feel.

    However, most of us (99.9999999%) came here for basic soul mission/development that are in fact quite simple. Which is called virtues in the OP video. No grandiose stuff.

    Because those smaller step lead to the bigger one in aons (although everything is happening in a constant happening, no time).

    I truly like the OP's video. It is simple and in my views very glued to the truth for the 99.9999999% of us.

    It would be simple also to mention, for each one of us, which virtue we feel we came in this world at this time period to develop further.

    Personally, I think one of the virtue I came to develop was further opening of the heart with true compassion without expectations of what might or should be (ego tamed not to intervene). My daughter's handicap were a tremendous help for this.

    The other virtue would be integrity within myself, centering towards inner integrity - which also means in practical life standing up towards inner integrity. No lies, inner or outer, transparency paired with genuine protection when needed, etc. Life with some narcissists were like intense fast track learning in these.

    Communication would be a third one. With individuals and crowds. I think this one if to prepare for other lives. But also I had to go through great shyness to achieve that goal, which was helping to implement the second virtue as well.

    What about your soul plans, Avalon members??


    Ah, yep..here it is. The ultimate vs the immediate. Thanks Flash! That's what I wanted to say somewhere in there.

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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)

    But Lake, you do realize that Tim's post sounds every bit as new agey as mine! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I don't think what Tim and yourself and what Chris are saying here runs contrary to the video. Concepts like we are all one, and returning to source and enlightenment seem to represent the pinnacle of the evolution of the human spirit. But to get there it appears we reincarnate many many times over. In between those incarnations we supposedly make detailed plans with spirit guides and wise elders for our next life....and that's what this thread is about
    Hello Mr Mike Sir....I hope the concept of sarcasm is not lost upon the shores of your physical being?

    Tim's thread holds major howlers....even in the opening post he DEFINES enlightenment! He actually states that which HE considers it to be by quoting Wikipedia....of other people's thoughts???

    Well we all can decide to define anything by the limitation of perception which our current form holds....that does NOT make it truth! FFS I even defined 'Love'....yes I decided what LOVE actually means BUT I didn't want anyone to call me bloody enlightened lmfao.

    Tim even states to NOT take another's words as your own and then proceeds to quote within near every post....some one elses words???

    And the best is that evil should not be confronted as it doesn't really mean anything!

    It is religious and holds the markings of cult traumatization.
    I posted you a link to a post regarding perception, did you read it?

    Let me state:

    We are NOT all one.
    Most....Will return to source but not as the individual they currently perceive as they will NOT exist as an awareness.
    Those who are NOT individualised cannot make any plans as they no longer are, in any way shape or form.
    Enlightenment is a total diversion.
    Individuals who are self defined do NOT reincarnate.
    You have NOT been here before, none of you, in the limited awareness you currently are.
    and on and on lol

    Maybe I need to write that post after all!

    Anyway rant/
    Normal..!

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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    I think it will be fairly obvious from the multitude of posts over the years on enlightenment the probability of what this "ones" pre-birth plan involved.
    There has been a number of exit points where I had been overwhelmed by "life"--some very close shaves where life was saved by outside influences, well I did pray for help and it came.

    The spiritual journey started in AA--this led to meditation and an interest in spirituality.
    Im not an adventurer and not comfortable away from home--yet through "coincidences" I found myself at the feet of various enlightened sages in India, UK and America.

    Kundalini awakened spontaneously without me having heard of it previously---no idea what it is till I investigated.
    Not a New age thing--smiling
    Therfore I have personal experience of the truth of what is pointed to--awakening rather than the full "job done"

    I would not have gone into this here but Mike asked
    ch
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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    [QUOTE=lake;1268418]
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)

    But Lake, you do realize that Tim's post sounds every bit as new agey as mine! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I don't think what Tim and yourself and what Chris are saying here runs contrary to the video. Concepts like we are all one, and returning to source and enlightenment seem to represent the pinnacle of the evolution of the human spirit. But to get there it appears we reincarnate many many times over. In between those incarnations we supposedly make detailed plans with spirit guides and wise elders for our next life....and that's what this thread is about
    Quote Let me state:

    We are NOT all one.
    Most....Will return to source but not as the individual they currently perceive as they will NOT exist as an awareness.
    Those who are NOT individualised cannot make any plans as they no longer are, in any way shape or form.
    Enlightenment is a total diversion.
    Individuals who are self defined do NOT reincarnate.
    You have NOT been here before, none of you, in the limited awareness you currently are.
    and on and on lol

    Maybe I need to write that post after all!

    Anyway rant/

    Please, write the post!

    You write the above as if it's the absolute truth. Tell me, where did you discover this knowledge? How can you be so sure it's the truth? Did anyone else's words play any role in leading you there? Certainly what you said is "defined by the limitations of your perspective" (your words) so therefore cannot represent ultimate truth, can it? Or are you immune to such devices?

    You and Chris have both stated that the truth is not a concept or opinion, which I won't disagree with. The problem is, you're both claiming to be speaking the truth, and yet you both disagree on fundamental details. Surely you can see where this is going On a much bigger level, it's the type of thing that causes wars.

    You may have the ultimate truth in your back pocket. But how do I know that if I haven't experienced it myself? Therefore, I have no choice but to regard your truth as a concept, or opinion. By presenting it as fact, you can create all sorts of problems.

    That's why true enlightenment vanishes the second you attempt to utter anything about it. You can't really discuss it without creating the same "howlers" Tim did. And that goes for everyone

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    I think it will be fairly obvious from the multitude of posts over the years on enlightenment the probability of what this "ones" pre-birth plan involved.
    There has been a number of exit points where I had been overwhelmed by "life"--some very close shaves where life was saved by outside influences, well I did pray for help and it came.

    The spiritual journey started in AA--this led to meditation and an interest in spirituality.
    Im not an adventurer and not comfortable away from home--yet through "coincidences" I found myself at the feet of various enlightened sages in India, UK and America.

    Kundalini awakened spontaneously without me having heard of it previously---no idea what it is till I investigated.
    Not a New age thing--smiling
    Therfore I have personal experience of the truth of what is pointed to--awakening rather than the full "job done"

    I would not have gone into this here but Mike asked
    ch


    it's cool Chris. thanks for sharing that.

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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    Forget anyone else's ultimate truth.
    These are helpful to cross check, as are spontaneous awakenings such as Rama Maharshi Eckhart Tolle and quite a few others.
    The Truth is with in--the basic undeniable is "I " exist and as said I know that on awakening in the morning--I dont need a name--nothing external needed, no words, no label, no internal discussion--its just known.
    Its also known that this "I" has not changed ever at least in this life time.
    That is the Truth that the self realized point to.
    Can this be denied?

    Each to their own, I dont mind.

    Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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  31. Link to Post #56
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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)

    Please, write the post!

    You write the above as if it's the absolute truth. Tell me, where did you discover this knowledge? How can you be so sure it's the truth? Did anyone else's words play any role in leading you there? Certainly what you said is "defined by the limitations of your perspective" (your words) so therefore cannot represent ultimate truth, can it? Or are you immune to such devices?

    You and Chris have both stated that the truth is not a concept or opinion, which I won't disagree with. The problem is, you're both claiming to be speaking the truth, and yet you both disagree on fundamental details. Surely you can see where this is going On a much bigger level, it's the type of thing that causes wars.

    You may have the ultimate truth in your back pocket. But how do I know that if I haven't experienced it myself? Therefore, I have no choice but to regard your truth as a concept, or opinion. By presenting it as fact, you can create all sorts of problems.

    That's why true enlightenment vanishes the second you attempt to utter anything about it. You can't really discuss it without creating the same "howlers" Tim did. And that goes for everyone
    I hold no truth for you Mike....It is my perception of my interaction with this illusion.

    I never have claimed to have a truth (are you still considering my sarcastic post?)

    The only 'role' another played in my perception of a truth, was the closing of the pre sent....in my perception, which allowed me to understand my own nature more and that 'other' was NOT of this realm.
    In essence I became 'closer' to freewill (there is no actual freewill here) and thus was more able to 'author' the 'page' being written....before I had to act out upon this stage!

    You see Mike....this....is very difficult for me!

    If I lay out my considerations of this reality (which are nothing more than MY experiences and consideration of such) then I run the 'risk' of influencing a, perhaps, becoming 'other'. This could cause me many issues as, IF my insufficient words are then dramatised within the 'other' life.......I become responsible and remove from 'them' the need to exist!
    They become less and I am then required to 'fund' that, now nothing, narrative!

    As you can understand....Not a great outcome!

    So again....I have zero truth in which YOU can swim.......BUT I find it difficult to stand and watch individual possibilities drowned

    So I may write said post....? But I may consider the 'cost' too great.

    Whatever anyway.... You learn't nothing from this post and I am sorry for that
    Normal..!

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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    I will ask you a question Mike, which is not cryptic and should hold something for you....

    What is the 'act' of creation and does it (that action) hold a responsibility that YOU would not allow to a 'child'?

    Normal..!

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  35. Link to Post #58
    United States Moderator Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    https://youtu.be/SvbkccZArFw (note: i only know how to provide links from my phone, not the vids themselves. Maybe someone can post the vid properly)

    More inspirational words from Rob and another brief mention of Val.

    What I like about this very short video is the part about courageous souls planning fear. I've often been scared of this or that and wondered in earnest if I wasn't some sort of coward. I've always hated that feeling. But here Rob assures us that to even agree to face the fear is a courageous move in and of itself.

    I've read similar stuff before i.e. that to even agree to incarnate on earth takes the highest of bravery. And those that do incarnate here are looked upon with great reverence.

    It's something I've often thought about when feeling low, or feeling like a failure, or whatever. Usually gives me a lift
    Last edited by Mike; 8th January 2019 at 19:47.

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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    I would respectfully point out that Truth is known.
    It is experiential as pointed to in Tim's thread that I linked early on.
    Truth is not a concept or opinion
    Any number of Self realized point to Truth in this era--and the number is growing rapidly because the Universe is bringing this about.
    If a person is serious about Enlightenment then they must spend the time imbibing the pointing/teaching of those who are Self Realize.
    Chris


    Chris
    No offense Chris, but I cringe every time you write one of these fortune cookie posts.

    You are a smart guy, but posting like this is an exercise in "I'm the guru, I can show you the way, stop thinking about it so much and just listen to me".

    Phrases like "Truth is not a concept or opinion". Really? No offense but when did you fall off the messiah truck and offer your benevolent healing touch?
    I'm all about your posts when you contribute to the conversation but the whole preaching path is beneath you bro.

    Hell, I don't even think you take the time to write half of these Buddhist quotes, the fact that you double wrote your name leads me to believe this was a cut and paste, and if it was a cut and paste as such how much can it really have to do with this thread?
    Im dyslexic DNA so double writing bame some times happens.
    I ont take offence but im not pointing to the threa I started years ago but to others where Truth is evident.
    Perhaps you have not visited Tim.s thread
    Or read I am That be Nisargadatta.
    You may say im brain washed because I have been reading about spirituality or looking at videos for over thirty years daily.
    Reach to their own
    It comes down to the Truth that I exist and I dont need anything exterior to know that.
    Im not enlightened so not qualified to be a teacher--I continuously point to those who are.
    Sorry about that--laughing.

    Chris
    Ps have not corrected dyslexic mistakes which I normally do.
    Off topic - but having read you unedited post Chris I think at the age of 53 I've just realised how similar your mistakes are to how I write that I might be dyslexic !

    Corrected !

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    Default Re: Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

    Quote Posted by lake (here)
    I will ask you a question Mike, which is not cryptic and should hold something for you....

    What is the 'act' of creation and does it (that action) hold a responsibility that YOU would not allow to a 'child'?



    I'm having a little difficulty with the way that's worded Lake. Would you mind rewriting in a different way? Thanks! I just want to be totally sure I'm understanding you right.

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