Theresa May's Brexit deal faces vote in Parliament.

[Matthew]

The EU will never let go. The Uk's exit proposal seemed doomed to fail from the start; not winning any hearts. Brexit probably really means no deal since the EU will never give up. Unified social/political/economic Europe in a few decades is beneficial only to people who want to take credit for that achievement in their lifetime. Why be unified with one system of government in such a rush? We already are one people at heart, despite our taxation system or what our coins look like.

[Matthew]

Posted by enigma3 (here)
Wow! Crushing is right. So is the sentiment still to leave? It seems that the anti Brexiteers have tried to delay leaving until they can turn public sentiment into staying. Corbyn is not electable. What a mess. I hope the UK leaves, but not so heavily biased on EU terms.

Gosh yes, and I just can only wildly guess how this might pan out. The next couple of weeks is going to be telling!!!

My dream is No Deal followed by the birth of a new, more federal European union to rival the current controlling one, and see which one wins. That would be funny.

[norman]

I've posted an intervew with Raheem Kassam, former London Breitbart editor in chief, about the wider European situation.

Here:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1269791

[sunwings]

A No Deal situation is never going to happen, even both sides accept this now. (I don´t think I need to explain why )

The British people have been betrayed not by the leavers but by Mrs May and her negotiators for coming back with an appalling deal.

David Cameron said clearly in the video I posted before that Britain had one chance to negotiate and there would be no re negotiations or second referendums, out would be out!

The conservatives have blown this chance, now the other parties can embark on a a stay campaign. The referendum was not legally binding but politicians have respectively allowed the negotiations to happen. But now the door to STAY has opened after the Conservatives blew this ONE chance for a deal.

[angelfire]

This has all been carefully engineered from the start. Get the worst possible deal on the table, have it roundly rejected and heigh ho, after a second referendum, we're back in the arms of the EU.

[ripple]

Posted by angelfire (here)
This has all been carefully engineered from the start. Get the worst possible deal on the table, have it roundly rejected and heigh ho, after a second referendum, we're back in the arms of the EU.

A possible but low odds scenario at this stage , imho -- my current odds 25%. But I actually do not care twopence either way and anyway .
Why ? Because , regardless , I see the EU crumbling hugely in the immediate term --- next two years . When the recession hits --- excuse me a second , I thought I heard it starting already --- there will be just a puddle of nations thrashing about and desperate to survive .
I believe the Yellow Jacket mentality and vitality will mushroom and change basics forever . And if the Paedophilia and Sex Trafficking scandals embrace London , Strasbourg and Brussels ( among others ) , there will be a huge change of guard . And not just at Buckingham Palace .

[yelik]

Following the vote to leave the EU the Tories voted for a leader who wished to remain - how does that work - how dumb is that?

The Government has not involved any skilled private sector negotiators to help get the best deal, it appears to have been kept all in house - for treasonous reasons

If we do have a second referendum because the Elites did not get the result they wanted I suspect more will vote to leave - even less trust in corrupt politicians

It seems to me that May's (Elites) Brexit plan was designed to fail and Europe cannot afford any other country to leave their crumbling pre-New World Order experiment

[ripple]

Posted by yelik (here)
Following the vote to leave the EU the Tories voted for a leader who wished to remain - how does that work - how dumb is that?

The Government has not involved any skilled private sector negotiators to help get the best deal, it appears to have been kept all in house - for treasonous reasons

If we do have a second referendum because the Elites did not get the result they wanted I suspect more will vote to leave - even less trust in corrupt politicians

It seems to me that May's (Elites) Brexit plan was designed to fail and Europe cannot afford any other country to leave their crumbling pre-New World Order experiment

We can only speculate but my sense is that TPTB had no layered and detailed plan in the event of losing the referendum . A bit like the DNC over the water and in the mad house ! However , I do believe that all of the strands that broadly unite under a Globalist agenda have worked together to be maximum unhelpful and to be fear mongers .
The prospect of major unplanned change is something that we as a species find intolerable . And unfortunately under stress and strain a majority of people throw reason and sanity out of the window and err towards what they see as compromise and calm .
It will take very radical action to change that type of progression . But a Yellow Jacket revolutionary movement might achieve a different result if a Farrage type leader emerges . imho .

[greybeard]

Farrage is planning a return to politics.
Chris

[greybeard]

Barnier: EU ready to renegotiate Brexit deal if UK ‘shifts red lines’

Michel Barnier has responded to the crushing defeat of the Brexit deal he brokered with the UK government by offering to reopen negotiations – but only if the UK “shifts” its red lines.

The EU chief negotiator insisted the withdrawal agreement rejected by MPs on Tuesday remains the “best possible compromise” considering Theresa May’s aims of leaving the customs union and single market.

But Barnier opened the door to a new deal being forged if the cross-party talks promised by the prime minister leads to the UK seeking a closer relationship with the EU.

Speaking at the European parliament in Strasbourg, the French politician said: “If the UK chooses to shift its red lines in the future and if it makes the choice to be more ambitious, to go beyond a simple free trade agreement, then the EU would be immediately ready to go hand in hand with that development and to give a favorable response.”

Guy Verhofstadt, the European parliament’s Brexit coordinator, also urged MPs to “come out of the trenches” and work across parties to “redefine the red lines which were unilaterally imposed by the hardliners in the Conservative party.”

Their comments were a nod towards growing momentum behind a Norway-style deal, which would keep the UK in the customs union and single market.

However, the Economist’s Intelligence Unit believe that remains unlikely as MPs may fear being punished by voters for pursuing a Brexit path that retains free movement of labour—a central issue for “Leave” voters—and forces the UK to contribute to the EU budget and apply part of its policies without having a say on them.

Barnier said that “future steps must be indicated very clearly by the British government” and appeared more concerned about the prospect of a no-deal Brexit after the Commons vote.

“We are fearing more than ever that there is a risk of a no deal,” he said, as the clock ticks down towards the March 29 date at which the UK is scheduled to leave the EU.




Conservative MEP Syed Kamall said the EU would “have to wait a little longer” for clarity about the UK’s next move as May consulted opposition parties in a bid to find a way forward.

He also urged the European commission to learn the lessons from their 2015 renegotiation of Britain’s membership terms with the then prime minister David Cameron.

Arguing that some “tweaks” to that deal would have prevented the Brexit vote, he added: “I believe it would be a great pity if no further efforts were made to try to reach an agreement to try to help the British prime minister to forge an agreement at Westminster.”

Manfred Weber, leader of the largest group in the European parliament and the frontrunner to become the next commission president, warned though that the EU will have its own demands, such as continued freedom of movement, if negotiations are reopened.

READ MORE: EU ready for new talks with May after Brexit deal defeat

Many MEPs said the impasse at Westminster means the issue should be solved by a fresh referendum.

“Either a positive and credible majority on Brexit takes shape in the Parliament or you need to put the question back to the people,” said Robert Gualtieri, the Brexit spokesperson for Labour’s group in the European parliament.

UKIP MEP Nigel Farage said his continental colleagues would be “in for a big surprise” if there is a second Brexit vote.

“The British may be a very placid people, very laid back but I promise you that if they get pushed too far it’s a lion that will roar,” he said. “We will be even more defiant if we have to fight a second referendum and we’ll win it by a bigger majority.”


My underline of Farrage.
Chris

[yelik]

Let's not forget that Buckingham Palace / HM Queen likely has a powerful say in what her loyal subjects get up to. Perhaps the British Bavarian Royals want out of Europe for some reason or other

[greybeard]

Theresa May survives no confidence vote after Brexit defeat

An embattled Theresa May has survived a vote of no confidence in her Government – by just 19 votes.

Jeremy Corbyn had called the vote in an attempt to topple the Prime Minister after she suffered a bruising defeat on her Brexit deal yesterday – the largest defeat for a Government in modern history.

Mr Corbyn had hoped to trigger an early General Election with the help of rebel Tories and smaller parties, but Mrs May survived by 325 votes to 306.

Following the vote, Mrs May said she plans to hold meetings – starting on Wednesday night – with senior parliamentarians and party leaders.

She said: “I am pleased that this House has expressed its confidence in the Government

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/theresa-ma...080341148.html

[5th]

Posted by yelik (here)
Let's not forget that Buckingham Palace / HM Queen likely has a powerful say in what her loyal subjects get up to. Perhaps the British Bavarian Royals want out of Europe for some reason or other

This seems to be likely and the probably reason is that the EU is doomed to fail (or become something horrible) and the Queen wants to preserve her independence (and along with it, the UK's).

[greybeard]

If Britain leaves that could well start the many leaving.
Which is why it has been made so difficult for UK to leave.
If they got a great and favourable "divorce" settlement there would by now a que to get the same.

Chris

[ripple]

You do not have to channel or be a seer to see that the EU's days are numbered , regardless of how we fumble to our own short term conclusion .
Forget your concerns over the powers of our Royal Family -- almost none in my belief -- once a country like Italy fails , many of the the major banks in Germany and France will belly up . It will be like watching a game of dominos where the countries themselves are the chips .
And if secret weapon Steve Bannon and his merry band are able to whip up some popular risings , they will . imho

[Hervé]

Still Confused About Brexit? It's Actually Pretty Simple...

Joe Quinn Sott.net
Wed, 16 Jan 2019 23:31 UTC

Brexit blather is back in the news again. To listen to politicians and media talking heads, you'd think it's all rather complicated and 'beyond the ken of mere mortals'. In reality, however, 'Brexit' is quite simple: for the last two and a half years, the British establishment has been trying to make Brexit go away.

Don't believe me? Explain why, then, that of the 650 UK Members of Parliament, about 70% come from constituencies where the majority of people voted for Brexit, while among all Members of Parliament about 70% have made it clear that they favor remaining in the EU.

In addition, the Conservative government which approved the referendum in 2015 was lead by David Cameron, who has always been against leaving the EU. His successor, Theresa May, who negotiated the pseudo-Brexit deal that would effectively keep the UK in the EU, and which was voted down yesterday by a massive majority in Parliament, is also against Brexit.

So the obvious reason why the last 2.5 years of British politics has been an utter farce, and why the British people find themselves in this current mess, is that while a majority of British citizens voted to leave the EU, a large majority of their MPs on both sides of the aisle (and the British 'establishment' itself) do not want to leave the EU and are determined to make sure it never happens. To claim otherwise would be to suggest that British politicians were as clueless about the nature of the UK's relationship with the EU as the British public. But that's not the full story.

The decision that Brexit would not happen was taken immediately after the 'Leave' vote in the referendum in 2016, and that fact was evident to anyone with eyes to see. The politicking of the last 2.5 years had little to do with Brexit and everything to do with internal UK political power games, i.e. British political party mandarins and individual politicians feathering their own nests with an eye on their future positions within the British political system, which they are sure will remain an integral part of the EU. The Conservative strategy so far has been to hold on to power by attempting to convince their voter base (who want Brexit) that Theresa May's 'deal' is actually Brexit, when it clearly isn't at all. The EU has been on exactly the same page as Theresa May all along.

At the same time, the main opposition Labour party has correctly seen 'Brexit' as their best chance to force both a no-confidence vote in May's government and another snap general election to take power themselves. The no-confidence vote happened this evening and, as expected, the Conservatives survived given their slim majority in Parliament and the support of Northern Ireland's 'more British than the Queen' Democratic Unionist Party (which has its own agenda to prevent the breakup of the United Kingdom and the reunification of Ireland). Basically, when Conservative politicians are asked if they have confidence in themselves, they'll always answer 'yes'.

It should be remembered that the only motivation for then-Conservative Party leader David Cameron to 'green light' the Brexit referendum was these same internal political power considerations. At the time, the Conservative party was concerned that the 'far-right' UKIP party - which had been leading a decades-long campaign for the UK to leave the EU - would steal most of the country's traditional Conservative voters (the majority of whom wanted to leave the EU) and effectively replace the Conservative party. That is why Cameron, even though he was an ardent 'Remainer', assented to the referendum. At the time, the bi-partisan British political establishment was convinced that - when it came down to it - the majority of voters would vote to remain in the EU. When a majority voted for Brexit, they were more than a little shocked.

But an important question that has been mostly overlooked throughout the Brexit face is; what, exactly, galvanized so many British people to vote to leave the EU definitively?

The British - or, more specifically, the English, who make up more than 80% of the UK population - have always seen themselves as a 'people apart' when it comes to Europe. Their tendency towards jingoism and their historical supremacist attitude toward the 'other', coupled with their position as a relatively large island off-shore the European continent, makes them constitutionally leery of being 'swallowed up' by the EU. But something happened in recent years to push them over the line of wanting to leave the EU.

By the time the Brexit vote was held in 2016, the US/Western-led 'war on terror' was in its 15th year. This is a war that the vast majority of people in Western nations understand as a war on 'Muslim terror', for obvious reasons (the 9/11 attacks were carried out - or certainly made to look like they were carried out - by Muslims). During those 15 years, multiple major 'Muslim terror attacks' on European and US soil served to confirm to many people in Western nations that radical Muslims were indeed intent on attacking and killing as many 'Westerners' as possible. This perception was dramatically strengthened after 2013/2014 when 'ISIS' appeared on the public radar with high definition videos of 'infidels' (including Westerners) being beheaded, crucified, burned alive, drowned in cages or thrown off buildings.

The Western press, ever dutiful to its job of spooking the public, enthusiastically reported on ISIS' horrific exploits. But by the end of 2015, the same press was ALSO widely reporting that ISIS was smuggling its members among refugees arriving in Europe, and that it was precisely due to the UK's membership of the EU that so many refugees were arriving in the UK. As if to prove the truth of this claim, 2015 saw more horrific 'Muslim terror attacks' in France, the UK and the USA, with many more high-profile 'terror plots' foiled in many countries. In addition, almost daily reports streamed in describing ISIS' ongoing rampage across Syria and Iraq and their plan to establish a 'caliphate' that would stretch into Western Europe.

So it was in this climate that a traditionally EU-averse British people were asked if they wanted to leave the EU, with the clear implication that leaving would give them back control over their borders, thereby reducing the number of terror attacks, or so they believed (and still do). That the Brexit 'yes' vote was all about immigration was echoed by Cameron when he claimed that "he could have avoided Brexit had European leaders let him control migration." Theresa May and other members of her party have since publicly acknowledged that immigration was the central issue that lead to the vote to leave the EU. As I have noted, however, the cause for such sudden concern over immigration was terrorism, and terrorism which, a lot of evidence suggests, the British state had a hand in.

But why is the British establishment united in its rejection of the people's vote to leave the EU? Clear economic reasons are one factor, but even more important for the British establishment is the access to and control over other European nations (they call it 'security cooperation') which membership of the EU provides. Consider the recent revelations about the UK govt/military propaganda/influence outfit, 'Integrity Initiative' (II), which operates ramified networks of 'influencers' within many EU government and media centers.

Equipped with a complete lack of actual integrity, this subversive, anti-democratic influence operation is but a current expression of a long-standing practice. Clearly founded upon historical military-intelligence relations with other NATO members, Integrity Initiative is, among other things, producing 'eyes only' reports for German elites warning them of the dangers of 'joining the dark side' by developing warmer relations with Moscow. Thanks to the tranches of documents written in their own words, we need not speculate on the value of remaining within the EU for the British establishment:

"The US needs to rebuild its understanding of Russia and how to deal with it," while "the UK needs reminding how to play its key role of encouraging/enabling US leadership in Europe/NATO."

Ideologically-aligned with the US 'deep state', British career diplomats and 'securocrats' have for many decades (some would say centuries) sought to control as much of the world as possible. For such pathological types, this domination and control is not a means to an end, but an end in itself. In short, outside of the EU, this UK-US means of control over the direction of Europe and its people dries up.

So where does 'Brexit' go from here? Clearly both of the main UK parties are in big trouble. Neither of them want Brexit of any significant kind, but both want power. Today the Conservatives saw off a no-confidence vote in their government, so their grip on power is secure, for now. Negotiations between Theresa May and her cabinet and the main opposition parties is underway. The common goal is to find a way to make Brexit go away. The only solution I can see to this political impasse which can achieve that goal while fending off the Labour party and ensuring that the Conservatives serve out their term until the next general election in 2022, is - as I have been saying for two years now - a new referendum that will have to be rigged to reflect a 'Remain' vote. (If you think 'they would never', think again.) The majority that is for Brexit would have to accept that they have, apparently, been defeated, and the Conservative government would focus on bull****ting the English Brexiteers that they tried their hardest but, alas, 'democracy is democracy'.

Will the English people accept it? Perhaps one of the only examples of honesty from a British politician in recent years was provided today by former Brexit secretary David Davis, who said that there will be "quite visible anger" among the public if the UK has not left the EU or begun a transition process to withdraw by April. "It will be really serious indeed," he said. That's quite possible, and while a 'yellow vest' type uprising in the UK may not be appealing to the British establishment or the people, it may be the only option to further expose the real problem in so-called Western democracies today: an almost complete disconnect between the people and their increasingly corrupt leaders.

Joe Quinn

[yelik]

Posted by ripple (here)
You do not have to channel or be a seer to see that the EU's days are numbered , regardless of how we fumble to our own short term conclusion .
Forget your concerns over the powers of our Royal Family -- almost none in my belief -- once a country like Italy fails , many of the the major banks in Germany and France will belly up . It will be like watching a game of dominos where the countries themselves are the chips .
And if secret weapon Steve Bannon and his merry band are able to whip up some popular risings , they will . imho

Ripple
Make no mistake that absolutely NOTHING in HM Governments happens without Buckingham Palace approval - every single day car loads of Ministerial documents are delivered late at night to Buckingham Palace for their approval. The queen is one of the richest and most powerful people on the planet - one of the Elite and true ruler from the shadows.

All senior Government officials and Military Personal swear allegiance to the Queen and not the people

Also - The Commonwealth comprises 53 countries, across all continents. The members have a combined population of 2.4 billion people, almost a third of the world population, of which 1.26 billion live in India and 94% live in Asia and Africa combined. HM Queen can quickly muster up one of the biggest and most powerful armies in the world - via NATO

[ripple]

Posted by yelik (here)

Posted by ripple (here)
You do not have to channel or be a seer to see that the EU's days are numbered , regardless of how we fumble to our own short term conclusion .
Forget your concerns over the powers of our Royal Family -- almost none in my belief -- once a country like Italy fails , many of the the major banks in Germany and France will belly up . It will be like watching a game of dominos where the countries themselves are the chips .
And if secret weapon Steve Bannon and his merry band are able to whip up some popular risings , they will . imho

Ripple
Make no mistake that absolutely NOTHING in HM Governments happens without Buckingham Palace approval - every single day car loads of Ministerial documents are delivered late at night to Buckingham Palace for their approval. The queen is one of the richest and most powerful people on the planet - one of the Elite and true ruler from the shadows.

All senior Government officials and Military Personal swear allegiance to the Queen and not the people

Also - The Commonwealth comprises 53 countries, across all continents. The members have a combined population of 2.4 billion people, almost a third of the world population, of which 1.26 billion live in India and 94% live in Asia and Africa combined. HM Queen can quickly muster up one of the biggest and most powerful armies in the world - via NATO

Calm down , Yelik , there is no secret plot .The Queen's consent is necessary to turn any bill into an actual law. Once a proposed law has passed both houses of Parliament, it makes its way to the Palace for approval, which is called "Royal Assent." And incidentally , the most recent British Monarch to refuse to provide Royal Assent was Queen Anne, back in 1708. The reason they reach the Palace late at night is because house proceedings often finish late at night and occasionally very early in the morning .
Anyway , Betty --- her affectionate family name , as per Frank Spencer's wife --- likes nothing better than a couple of medicinal glasses , a bit of TV and then early to bed . She has neither the time , energy or high IQ ( apologies Betty ) to be embroiled in high level shenanigans .
As for her raising a 2.4 billion army using NATO as proxy --- I shall be the first to join ."What larks " , as someone famously said in a Dicken's weekly penny dreadful .

[ripple]

REFERENCE , AS PER POST 36 :-- Still Confused About Brexit? It's Actually Pretty Simple... Joe Quinn Sott.net Wed, 16 Jan 2019 23:31 UTC

By Jove . Mister Quinn is very long winded over what he describes as a simple matter .
However , this essential matter is so simple that it is generally already recognised as such and does not need a Joe Somebody to think that he has found it for us as though we are incapable .
It is the Globalists vs Populists battle and the need for those already embedded within the hierarchy not to lose their positions .Their need to retain power and wealth . And for the 'others' to see that they need to actively fight if they are going to win something to their real advantage
And all 'we ' need is a leader to fly the flag and fight the enemy .
Unfortunately potential populist leaders have become much more savvy of late and are not prepared for personal martyrdom --- Nigel Farrage , Tricky Dicky Davies , Boris and our slippery but clever friend Mister Gove -- to name but a few .
We need somebody brash and resonant to emerge -- somebody clueless and expendable to be a martyr for the cause .
Let us hope that this potential time tilt point morphs into big change through the arrival of a mini - Donald , as a predictable example .Trump , not Duck .

[Did You See Them]

Pitch forks and yellow vests are being stock pilled as we speak.
If they want ANOTHER referendum ( or "Peoples Vote" - as they now like to term it to make it sound like a different or new animal !) let them !
We wont accept it lying down.
Anyways if we are to be led by Europe why do we need our middlemen ( UK Government ) - lets get rid of the over paid clowns, demolish parliament, build some new dwellings for whoever we let in and then take our orders from their New Reich they establish. I wont be here.