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Thread: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

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    Default $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    Quote NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15

    The legal minimum wage for New York City employers with 11 or more workers rose more than 15 percent on Dec. 31, 2018, to $15 per hour from $13, giving fast-food, retail and other employees a bump in pay. But some New York City restaurant owners say the latest minimum wage hike is forcing them to cut workers' hours just to stay afloat.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nyc-res...ke-hitting-15/
    • 75% of full-service restaurants to cut employee hours
    • 47% to eliminate jobs
    • 87% to raise prices
    All directly resulting from the implementation of a single policy, namely an increase in minimum wage by $2 per hour. In economic terms, that's a price floor being artificially raised above the natural supply/demand equilibrium, which is why businesses are having to compensate by firing people and reducing hours, and raising their prices. That's not a good thing.

    Unemployment rates, inflation, and "working poor" rates will all increase in New York as a direct result of this policy, and the above is evidence already happening in real time.

    It's sad because anyone who's ever had a real economics course won't be surprised in the least, while the people who promote these policies don't care in the least. More of the same, and New York takes one step closer to Venezuela status. One of these days I'm going to post a lengthy thread explaining how and why socialism causes artificial scarcity by destroying the free market's ability to set prices by supply and demand, widens the gap between the ultra-rich and the ultra-poor, and destroys the middle class. Contrary to popular misconception, economics is considered a science and not a matter of opinion. These things are absolutely predictable.

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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    I live in NY and its almost impossible to get an apartment here . Everything is just so expensive even on 15 dollars an hour. Its ridiculous

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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    ... minimum wage for New York City employers with 11 or more workers rose more than 15 percent...
    They either raise prices of the goods and services to directly reflect the additional labor cost, or the owners take less in profits (if still profitable with goods and services at the same prices and absorbing the additional labor cost.) This is an example of capitalism, not socialism. Why did you even mention socialism? Artificial scarcity is one of the ugly pillars upon which capitalism stands, again, why tag socialism?

    You have to have seen the charts showing worker wages (nearly a flat line) over the last few decades, compared to profits and executive salaries (a line going more than 45° up and to the right.) Do you not see a problem here?

    The cost of goods and services HAS gone up to the worker-consumer, way up, but worker wages have been stagnant for decades, and the executive pay and bonuses have skyrocketed and profits have skyrocketed. Do you not see a problem here? If not a moral/ethical one, at least an economic one? Even if you were a sociopathic capitalist, you wouldn't want the worker class so broke that they cannot buy goods and services, right? If normal course of doing capitalist business is to set your rates based on your market, and every restaurant in NYC just got hit with the same cost increase, where is the problem, really? In reality, the price of each hamburger in NYC will have to go up by $0.05 to cover the labor cost increase. It's not really a problem and the statistics you cited are someone's bogus conjecture.

    If the US Congress wasn't full of democrats and republicans, minions of the Financial Elite and Power Elite, worker wages would have been incrementally stepped-up over the years, so there wouldn't be large, "economically disruptive" jumps in labor costs. A REAL livable working wage would probably be around $30/hr at today's cost of goods and services (even that would need to be tied to some regional economic parameters), and as shocking as that would be economically (because the fat cats would not drop their own pay to cover it, they would pass all of the new costs onto the consumer), capitalism wouldn't skip a beat.

    Don't cry for capitalism. They won. The capitalists already won. It's very very near the end of the game of Monopoly, and they have all the hotels and all the property and all the utilities and they control the jail and they never go to jail... and it's statistically impossible for anyone else to win. They won. They own something like half the wealth of the world, and by the end of the game when the rest of us have nothing, they'll loan us some money, and get the game going again. No, don't cry for capitalism nor for the ruling globalist monsters who are all capitalists - they'll be just fine.


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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    A slow clap to you, Dennis. Couldn't have said it better myself.

    I work at a preschool, making 11 dollars an hour (which is shameful, given that tuition is 1k/month a pop). I love my job, though, aside from all the bull**** the (very well-paid) owner and management make.

    I could make up to 15 hourly, but I would be working a soul-sucking desk job. Last time I did one of those, I gained 40 lbs in 10 months, and it wrecked my health, the aftermath of which I'm only beginning to feel. So I chose teaching small children for peanuts instead.

    If I didn't have my boyfriend, I would have no other choice but to live with like 2+ roommates, and I'd be eating lots and lots of cup ramen. Forget good, high quality organic foods, or natural home products that I make.

    Increasing the minimum wage to 15 dollars an hour would only be bad because those at the top would not be willing to garnish their high salaries or, God forbid, cut profits for shareholders.

    America sold out its soul long ago.

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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    [QUOTE=A Voice from the Mountains;1270900]
    Quote More of the same, and New York takes one step closer to Venezuela status. One of these days I'm going to post a lengthy thread explaining how and why socialism causes artificial scarcity by destroying the free market's ability to set prices by supply and demand, widens the gap between the ultra-rich and the ultra-poor, and destroys the middle class. Contrary to popular misconception, economics is considered a science and not a matter of opinion. These things are absolutely predictable.
    Voice , one of the great things about those that follow the road to Caracas, and one that you must make sure to mention , is the unfailing talent of most of their members as self proclaimed Socialists to see their own system's faults ; and then , --- abracadabra ------- lay them at the feet of the job creators .That is , the ones of capital importance.

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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    meah.. it's simply 2 dollars more for us minimum wage-slaves.. AVFTMountains.
    may I ask..
    am I right in thinking you also are stuck on a minimum wage and having to work 2 or more jobs?
    i'm assuming so

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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    https://www.google.com/search?q=How+...w=1440&bih=777


    I just want to add a perspective to this : In 1964 minimum wage ........ $1.15

    In 2018 ........ $10.50

    54 years for a $9.35 raise in minimum wage . That's $0.17 1/2cents a year /about .... 1.6% a yr
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Cost of a new home: $20,500.00 ......
    Cost of a first-class stamp: $0.05 .... 1964
    Cost of a gallon of regular gas: $0.30 ......
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    In 1964, the average cost of a new car was $3,500. Today, you're paying around $24,680. In 1964 you could get a gallon of gas for around 25 cents. Today that price has skyrocketed to around $4 nationwide.

    $24,680.00
    - 3,500.00
    ------------------
    $ 21,180.00 -divided by 54 yrs. = $392.22 a yr .. 18 1/2 % ..... a year

    Cost of a dozen eggs: $0.54
    Cost of a gallon of Milk: $0.95

    There has been a real lag in the minimum wage for 54 years. Now it hurts, if they had been up front, and not cheated labor all these years then his would have had no big impact .

    Corporations and Government who's to blame ? Margins are big enough to take this.
    Last edited by ramus; 25th January 2019 at 15:47.

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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    The minimum wage should be higher than 15.00 per hour. Much higher. If you are a job creator and can't afford to pay your staff a liveable wage then you don't have a viable business.

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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    ... minimum wage for New York City employers with 11 or more workers rose more than 15 percent...
    They either raise prices of the goods and services to directly reflect the additional labor cost, or the owners take less in profits (if still profitable with goods and services at the same prices and absorbing the additional labor cost.) This is an example of capitalism, not socialism. Why did you even mention socialism? Artificial scarcity is one of the ugly pillars upon which capitalism stands, again, why tag socialism?

    You have to have seen the charts showing worker wages (nearly a flat line) over the last few decades, compared to profits and executive salaries (a line going more than 45° up and to the right.) Do you not see a problem here?

    The cost of goods and services HAS gone up to the worker-consumer, way up, but worker wages have been stagnant for decades, and the executive pay and bonuses have skyrocketed and profits have skyrocketed. Do you not see a problem here? If not a moral/ethical one, at least an economic one? Even if you were a sociopathic capitalist, you wouldn't want the worker class so broke that they cannot buy goods and services, right? If normal course of doing capitalist business is to set your rates based on your market, and every restaurant in NYC just got hit with the same cost increase, where is the problem, really? In reality, the price of each hamburger in NYC will have to go up by $0.05 to cover the labor cost increase. It's not really a problem and the statistics you cited are someone's bogus conjecture.

    If the US Congress wasn't full of democrats and republicans, minions of the Financial Elite and Power Elite, worker wages would have been incrementally stepped-up over the years, so there wouldn't be large, "economically disruptive" jumps in labor costs. A REAL livable working wage would probably be around $30/hr at today's cost of goods and services (even that would need to be tied to some regional economic parameters), and as shocking as that would be economically (because the fat cats would not drop their own pay to cover it, they would pass all of the new costs onto the consumer), capitalism wouldn't skip a beat.

    Don't cry for capitalism. They won. The capitalists already won. It's very very near the end of the game of Monopoly, and they have all the hotels and all the property and all the utilities and they control the jail and they never go to jail... and it's statistically impossible for anyone else to win. They won. They own something like half the wealth of the world, and by the end of the game when the rest of us have nothing, they'll loan us some money, and get the game going again. No, don't cry for capitalism nor for the ruling globalist monsters who are all capitalists - they'll be just fine.
    Bravo Dennis! My sentiments exactly!

    And if there are marginal entrepreneurs who have to rely upon paying slave wages to make their business profitable, then they didn't have a good business plan and should probably close up shop!

    Its high time that the top tier stop living off of the backs of the working class.

    Whenever we go out (quite rarely) and regardless of the service, we always make sure that our server has a minimum of a $20 tip for every hour we occupy his or her station. Even if the tip exceeds the tab.

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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    And if I might offer some helpful insights to those of you who are working for slave wages - find a way out. The universe always delivers when you ask. You have the option of unionizing, of joining forces with others to create your own dream, - for example, Indigris- have you considered taking your valuable experience, intelligence and skills and starting your own pre-school? Even if you don't have the credentials to be licensed by the state, you certainly could either acquire the training, start a cooperative for parents who do not rely upon state subsidy, etc. Start with a day care instead. Certainly there are parents who would rather pay you directly? Don't have the funds? Try a Gofundme or apply for a small start up loan. There is grant money available for female entrepreneurs. And with the shortage of quality daycare? I am sure you'd have clients. You have as much power as any other human. You just need to make up your mind that you are going to accomplish a goal and forge ahead (with a well laid plan). And honestly? The more people that do this will result in a much higher wage for everyone. Take back your power!

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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    Really, if we are talking about the collective good for society, the group that creates the most innovation, jobs and wealth is the middle class. The middle class has been ground down in the industrialized world by these 'free trade' deals that aren't really free and just make it easy for the largest corporations to bypass local laws and tariffs (for instance, many products are much cheaper just across the border in the US but the average Canadian can't get those prices north of the border even though 'free trade' is in place).

    Large corporations have been tasked with undertaking mega-projects, to give credit where credit is due. For instance, Canada's interior was opened by the Hudson's Bay Company, India was opened to trade by the East India Co., Canada's west was opened up by the Canadian Pacific Railway Co. These are also examples of imperialism against aboriginal societies. But megaprojects, or specialty projects, are where large corporations can be helpful.

    My general conclusion is that our society can do well without large corporations, except when megaprojects are needed. I would tax the daylights out of the rest, and the wealthy. I would also burden commercial activity with stringent rules, such as requiring new products to be not harmful to the environment, worker rights & benefits, etc., before their products or services are rolled out. The influence of wealth in funding political corruption and fake science research has done untold damage to Western society.

    How current governments can preach, and practice, tax cuts to corporations and the rich, whilst being literally bankrupt, is beyond reason.

    Another thing I would do is get rid of the central banking model that requires growth in the economy to be funded by debt. Governments should print their own currency to the level of financing growth in the economy, and only borrow from the central bank when infrastructure projects require it. Central banks should just be used to fund commercial banks.

    The focus of the system should be to make people independent as possible, and perhaps closer to the land. Small business and the middle class, and the poor, should be facilitated to conduct the activities they desire. Governments can probably provide free services, such as healthcare, dental, etc., to facilitate a 'just' society. People don't need to be 'socially engineered' or monetized as a commercial target, they need tech to live comfortably and be able to pursue humanistic goals, preferably and hopefully not driven by greed or materialism.

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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    Quote Posted by AriG (here)
    And if I might offer some helpful insights to those of you who are working for slave wages - find a way out. The universe always delivers when you ask. You have the option of unionizing, of joining forces with others to create your own dream, - for example, Indigris- have you considered taking your valuable experience, intelligence and skills and starting your own pre-school? Even if you don't have the credentials to be licensed by the state, you certainly could either acquire the training, start a cooperative for parents who do not rely upon state subsidy, etc. Start with a day care instead. Certainly there are parents who would rather pay you directly? Don't have the funds? Try a Gofundme or apply for a small start up loan. There is grant money available for female entrepreneurs. And with the shortage of quality daycare? I am sure you'd have clients. You have as much power as any other human. You just need to make up your mind that you are going to accomplish a goal and forge ahead (with a well laid plan). And honestly? The more people that do this will result in a much higher wage for everyone. Take back your power!
    Well, in Texas, anybody can open up a daycare out of their own home.

    Thing is, I live in a small apartment, and not only would that definitely break the lease, it would also prove logistically impossible.

    I did consider this before, but the finances needed to get one open (you need toys, bathrooms, supplies, cubbies, etc.) are way outside what I can afford. I'll look into crowdfunding and grants, though.

    Thank you

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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    Really, if we are talking about the collective good for society, the group that creates the most innovation, jobs and wealth is the middle class. The middle class has been ground down in the industrialized world by these 'free trade' deals that aren't really free and just make it easy for the largest corporations to bypass local laws and tariffs (for instance, many products are much cheaper just across the border in the US but the average Canadian can't get those prices north of the border even though 'free trade' is in place).

    Large corporations have been tasked with undertaking mega-projects, to give credit where credit is due. For instance, Canada's interior was opened by the Hudson's Bay Company, India was opened to trade by the East India Co., Canada's west was opened up by the Canadian Pacific Railway Co. These are also examples of imperialism against aboriginal societies. But megaprojects, or specialty projects, are where large corporations can be helpful.

    My general conclusion is that our society can do well without large corporations, except when megaprojects are needed. I would tax the daylights out of the rest, and the wealthy. I would also burden commercial activity with stringent rules, such as requiring new products to be not harmful to the environment, worker rights & benefits, etc., before their products or services are rolled out. The influence of wealth in funding political corruption and fake science research has done untold damage to Western society.

    How current governments can preach, and practice, tax cuts to corporations and the rich, whilst being literally bankrupt, is beyond reason.

    Another thing I would do is get rid of the central banking model that requires growth in the economy to be funded by debt. Governments should print their own currency to the level of financing growth in the economy, and only borrow from the central bank when infrastructure projects require it. Central banks should just be used to fund commercial banks.

    The focus of the system should be to make people independent as possible, and perhaps closer to the land. Small business and the middle class, and the poor, should be facilitated to conduct the activities they desire. Governments can probably provide free services, such as healthcare, dental, etc., to facilitate a 'just' society. People don't need to be 'socially engineered' or monetized as a commercial target, they need tech to live comfortably and be able to pursue humanistic goals, preferably and hopefully not driven by greed or materialism.
    See, all of this sounds great, and potentially doable on paper, but humanity just isn't mature/evolved enough yet for this to work on any kind of macro-scale.

    Still, there are aspects of Japanese and some Europe that the world should take notes from, America especially.

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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    Quote Posted by Indigris (here)
    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    Really, if we are talking about the collective good for society, the group that creates the most innovation, jobs and wealth is the middle class. The middle class has been ground down in the industrialized world by these 'free trade' deals that aren't really free and just make it easy for the largest corporations to bypass local laws and tariffs (for instance, many products are much cheaper just across the border in the US but the average Canadian can't get those prices north of the border even though 'free trade' is in place).

    Large corporations have been tasked with undertaking mega-projects, to give credit where credit is due. For instance, Canada's interior was opened by the Hudson's Bay Company, India was opened to trade by the East India Co., Canada's west was opened up by the Canadian Pacific Railway Co. These are also examples of imperialism against aboriginal societies. But megaprojects, or specialty projects, are where large corporations can be helpful.

    My general conclusion is that our society can do well without large corporations, except when megaprojects are needed. I would tax the daylights out of the rest, and the wealthy. I would also burden commercial activity with stringent rules, such as requiring new products to be not harmful to the environment, worker rights & benefits, etc., before their products or services are rolled out. The influence of wealth in funding political corruption and fake science research has done untold damage to Western society.

    How current governments can preach, and practice, tax cuts to corporations and the rich, whilst being literally bankrupt, is beyond reason.

    Another thing I would do is get rid of the central banking model that requires growth in the economy to be funded by debt. Governments should print their own currency to the level of financing growth in the economy, and only borrow from the central bank when infrastructure projects require it. Central banks should just be used to fund commercial banks.

    The focus of the system should be to make people independent as possible, and perhaps closer to the land. Small business and the middle class, and the poor, should be facilitated to conduct the activities they desire. Governments can probably provide free services, such as healthcare, dental, etc., to facilitate a 'just' society. People don't need to be 'socially engineered' or monetized as a commercial target, they need tech to live comfortably and be able to pursue humanistic goals, preferably and hopefully not driven by greed or materialism.
    See, all of this sounds great, and potentially doable on paper, but humanity just isn't mature/evolved enough yet for this to work on any kind of macro-scale.

    Still, there are aspects of Japanese and some Europe that the world should take notes from, America especially.
    Hi Indigris, really, nothing that I am suggesting is impractical, even under the current circumstances. Here's what it would take:

    1) High taxes on high income, whether corporate or personal. How's about 75% on income over a certain level. Special projects income could be exempted.

    2) Capital tax on assets. In the case of corporations, the capital tax could be alleviated if they employ a certain level of employees for a given level of assets.

    3) Low taxes for the lower income groups.

    4) Federal governments print their own money. Central banks only finance commercial banks. In the US, disband the federal reserve system.

    5) Government programs pay for universal health care, universal free education, free dental care, subsidized housing where needed, etc. Many countries already have much or all of this. For instance Canada has universal healthcare and free primary/secondary education.

    6). Government incentives should support independent living, alternative medicine, organic food production, etc. Also, the tech for independent living should have incentives.

    8). Heavy regulation for environmental concerns, particularly waste management and pollution.

    9) Workers rights and benefits should be strictly regulated.

    None of these suggestions are unattainable, IMHO.

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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    Quote Posted by Indigris (here)
    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    Really, if we are talking about the collective good for society, the group that creates the most innovation, jobs and wealth is the middle class. The middle class has been ground down in the industrialized world by these 'free trade' deals that aren't really free and just make it easy for the largest corporations to bypass local laws and tariffs (for instance, many products are much cheaper just across the border in the US but the average Canadian can't get those prices north of the border even though 'free trade' is in place).

    Large corporations have been tasked with undertaking mega-projects, to give credit where credit is due. For instance, Canada's interior was opened by the Hudson's Bay Company, India was opened to trade by the East India Co., Canada's west was opened up by the Canadian Pacific Railway Co. These are also examples of imperialism against aboriginal societies. But megaprojects, or specialty projects, are where large corporations can be helpful.

    My general conclusion is that our society can do well without large corporations, except when megaprojects are needed. I would tax the daylights out of the rest, and the wealthy. I would also burden commercial activity with stringent rules, such as requiring new products to be not harmful to the environment, worker rights & benefits, etc., before their products or services are rolled out. The influence of wealth in funding political corruption and fake science research has done untold damage to Western society.

    How current governments can preach, and practice, tax cuts to corporations and the rich, whilst being literally bankrupt, is beyond reason.

    Another thing I would do is get rid of the central banking model that requires growth in the economy to be funded by debt. Governments should print their own currency to the level of financing growth in the economy, and only borrow from the central bank when infrastructure projects require it. Central banks should just be used to fund commercial banks.

    The focus of the system should be to make people independent as possible, and perhaps closer to the land. Small business and the middle class, and the poor, should be facilitated to conduct the activities they desire. Governments can probably provide free services, such as healthcare, dental, etc., to facilitate a 'just' society. People don't need to be 'socially engineered' or monetized as a commercial target, they need tech to live comfortably and be able to pursue humanistic goals, preferably and hopefully not driven by greed or materialism.
    See, all of this sounds great, and potentially doable on paper, but humanity just isn't mature/evolved enough yet for this to work on any kind of macro-scale.

    Still, there are aspects of Japanese and some Europe that the world should take notes from, America especially.
    Hi Indigris, really, nothing that I am suggesting is impractical, even under the current circumstances. Here's what it would take:

    1) High taxes on high income, whether corporate or personal. How's about 75% on income over a certain level. Special projects income could be exempted.

    2) Capital tax on assets. In the case of corporations, the capital tax could be alleviated if they employ a certain level of employees for a given level of assets.

    3) Low taxes for the lower income groups.

    4) Federal governments print their own money. Central banks only finance commercial banks. In the US, disband the federal reserve system.

    5) Government programs pay for universal health care, universal free education, free dental care, subsidized housing where needed, etc. Many countries already have much or all of this. For instance Canada has universal healthcare and free primary/secondary education.

    6). Government incentives should support independent living, alternative medicine, organic food production, etc. Also, the tech for independent living should have incentives.

    8). Heavy regulation for environmental concerns, particularly waste management and pollution.

    9) Workers rights and benefits should be strictly regulated.

    None of these suggestions are unattainable, IMHO.
    The 1% all have good friends in government and the power and money to be able to plant them there, that ensures they'll never have a 75% tax at any level of profit. Haven't you noticed that Presidents and Prime ministers (usually of the right wing locale) are always giving their rich friends tax breaks?

    It's detrimental to a country to not tax the rich heavily while trying to tax the **** out of the poor, which is what capitalists always seem to want (even though when they cry like babies that minimum wage has to be adjusted for inflation and cost of living increases, they are the ones that create the situation .

    (I live in Alberta ... if you listen quietly at night you can hear all the redneck conservatives whimpering and whining that we have to make minimum wage adjustments, even though the cost of live here has skyrocketd since the oil boom, and minimum wage is well below the poverty level, just now are wages even moving at all to correct)- the OPs analysis is 100% backwards due to massive shortsightedness - Dennis explained it well).

    If it's detrimental to the job they are supposed to be doing (back to politician's giving tax breaks to the super rich), that we as taxpayers pay them to do, we know they are being paid off by other interests. Its that simple. How to change this? It would take some brave politicians, with massive testicles and a motivation to not by bought.

    Politicians with huge testicles to do the right thing? Almost non-existent.
    Politicians that can't be bought? Almost non-existent.

    So while possible, probability is slim to none, and Slim's out of town ...



    Disclaimer: "Huge Testicles" = "the willpower, ability and motivation to 100% follow through with the completion of a very difficult task despite strong opposition". Applies to both men and women.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 23rd January 2019 at 00:21.
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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    $15 min wage is insane.. what inflation rate will that cause; double digits surely..
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    $15 min wage is insane...
    I'll give you that it does seem a bit high ... where I live the government slowly rolled out the raise to $15CAD which I feel is appropriate, and considering the cost of living is waaay ahead of wages here (Cost of living can go up 50% before there's any mention of raising minimums which just creates poverty and strains social systems - higher wages tend to reduce these other costs, so there's that aspect as well).

    But ... I do the conversion ... $15USD = $20CAD ... yeah that does seem a bit extreme ... $15CAD I think is the highest anywhere in Canada.

    It depends on cost of living in New York as well, for a full picture. Every state will be different in that regard.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 23rd January 2019 at 16:20.
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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    Dedukshyn, I have no doubt that the probability of achieving a 75% tax rate on the wealthy would seem very low. This would take a consciousness shift of almost everyone involved. There have been high level politicians along the way who have appeared to be close on this, however their own parties sabotaged them along the way, and if they actually get into power, the deep state finds other ways to silence them. Bernie Sanders being the most recent example of the former. JFK being an example of the latter.

    Another example is Henry Wallace, the US vice president to FDR from 1940-44. He was a highly spiritual and very clever man. He was undermined as VP at the 1944 democratic party convention where the deep state cronies in the party cajoled the convention delegates to back Truman. Truman was a uneducated neophyte senator, also a hi-level mason, who became a yes man for the deep state. Wallace wanted to have universal health care and further agrarian reform. Him being a theosophist, its very unlikely that he, as president after FDR died (everyone knew FDR was near the end) would have permitted the dropping of the atom bomb on Japan when the war was already won. Also, Wallace also wouldn't have been suckered into permitting the creation of the cia nor the nsa. Also, the UFO file would likely have been disclosed since another FDR protégé, secretary of defence Forrestal, wanted to do that. Wallace and Forrestal were both fired by Truman and Forrestal was later murdered to silence him on the UFO file.

    So, there have been close calls, just no cigar. Yet.

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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    [QUOTE=ripple;1270916]
    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Quote More of the same, and New York takes one step closer to Venezuela status. ...
    ... those that follow the road to Caracas...
    The road to Caracas... has a hell of a lot of CIA footprints. Are you unaware of the siege that Venezuela is under - siege by DEEP STATE and GLOBALISTS?

    Are you aware of a former star of international, globalist-level capitalism, John Perkins? John wrote Confessions of an Economic Hitman. John explains* how modern war is waged. Nefarious elements of the fascist US government (the CIA - the eyes, ears, and trigger fingers of the Shadow Government/Deep State) are fomenting yet another fake revolution in South America, this time in Venezuela. Research the phrase, 'Banana Republic', the original meaning.

    It isn't Maduro. The same nefarious, globalist-deep state elements including the CIA, had already shoved a dagger into Venezuela under Chavez. (Maybe they even murdered Chavez.) There are several reasons that the globalists are going to take over Venezuela: the largest reserve of oil of any nation, and because it is socialist.

    Socialist nations cannot be allowed to be left alone, unmolested. The rich and powerful 13 or 33 or whatever the hell the number is at the top owners/controllers/rulers/hoarders of planet Earth are NOT going to allow a nation to operate under the concept of sharing (a tenet of socialism.) Sharing is the antithesis of their globalist capitalist exclusive empires.

    I suspect that the top tier owners of planet Earth rarely bother with the day-to-day running of the planet, but that each and every attempt anywhere on Earth at having a communist or socialist nation does get their attention, their scowls, their disapproval, their nod calling for action. I doubt there is even the slightest debate between these old banking money ruling family globalists. It's a given: the world must not be allowed to see a nation run by its citizens, for its citizens. They know that it can't be unseen, that then everyone would want that. Sharing. Sharing is lovely for almost all of us on Earth, but not them. It is the most frightening concept in the world to them. They know that it would only be a matter of time before 7.9 billion people would demand that the uber-wealthy share the 1/2 of the world's wealth that they have accumulated. Those people also know they wouldn't really just be losing "half the world's wealth", because they actually control far more than half and their big half includes the most desirable land on Earth. I think they know they will lose it all, even the possibility that all nations would print their own money, ending the greatest scam in history.

    Sharing (socialism) isn't evil. However, every single powerful, rich, globalist is a capitalist.

    The globalists and their mass media/propaganda department want you and I to blame Venezuela's woes on socialism, rather than blaming the CIA's deliberate actions to try to create a revolution. The corporate MSM, and their globalist corporate owners, have presented a fairy-tale bullsh!t storm of disinformation surrounding all of the USA, INC.'s takeovers of nascent socialist countries and destruction of socialist (sharing) policy.

    What's the opposite of "social?" Anti-social. What's the opposite of "sharing?" Greed.

    The truth in a nutshell is that "sharing" is the scariest concept to a capitalist, because capitalism is the opposite of sharing. Communism would be 100% sharing and no societal hierarchy. Communism has actually never occurred in any nation, ever. Socialism is the foundation of society, and of families. Society. Social. It is social organization and a shared commons. Socialism is the normal structure of a family. Family members nurture one another, care for one another, share resources with one another. We don't charge our kids for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, or saddle them with the debt to pay for their diapers. (Capitalist Jesus could have made a killing selling all the loaves and fishes to the crowd of hungry people, but I guess Socialist Jesus showed up that day.)

    Socialism...

    Every example of tribal life includes socialism - it is the natural and normal way to organize society, around sharing. Have you heard about the story where one guy in a tribe declared that all of some critical resource was his and his alone? No, you didn't hear that story. The tribe would have laughed at him, or driven him away... or killed him. A society cannot thrive if one or a few members are more clever and trick the others into giving/allowing them to control the formerly shared resources. And really, that's all that capitalist empires are, the most clever tricksters and old family money.

    The fact that you are sitting here today reading these words is because proto-humans or "cave men" banded together and survived together, not because of some rugged individual that went off on his own. We need one another - humans are social creatures. As a species, human babies are born helpless - that's a pretty powerful clue as to our vulnerability and need to nurture one another.

    *(Here's a cartoon/graphic with edited snips of John Perkins interview voice, hitting the bullet points of what economic hitmen do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37Dvt2EqXF4 Some variant of this, plus trump-imposed sanctions, is what Venezuela is going through.)
    Last edited by Dennis Leahy; 23rd January 2019 at 07:27.


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    Default Re: $15 NY min. wage already causing layoffs, reduced hours, higher prices

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    Large corporations have been tasked with undertaking mega-projects, to give credit where credit is due. For instance, Canada's interior was opened by the Hudson's Bay Company, India was opened to trade by the East India Co., Canada's west was opened up by the Canadian Pacific Railway Co. These are also examples of imperialism against aboriginal societies. But megaprojects, or specialty projects, are where large corporations can be helpful.

    My general conclusion is that our society can do well without large corporations, except when megaprojects are needed. I would tax the daylights out of the rest, and the wealthy. I would also burden commercial activity with stringent rules, such as requiring new products to be not harmful to the environment, worker rights & benefits, etc., before their products or services are rolled out. The influence of wealth in funding political corruption and fake science research has done untold damage to Western society.
    Literally your examples of Corporation goodness are the Hudson Bay company and the East India Company.

    That is like me saying the best advances in medicine came from Unit 731 so maybe we need large scale wars from time to time.

    The East India company opened up India, but at what cost?

    Did you know the caste system was brought back into modern usage by the British as a divide and conquer strategy?

    You are making the same argument about East India Company that people make about the Mongols.

    Sure trade was secure, and freedom of religion was a law(as long as your prayed for the Khan) but tell the Chinese(Song Dynasty) this was worth it.

    Corporations are merely a technology(organization).
    A side effect of them is diffusion of responsible for the actions of the Corp.
    This is the problem. The fact that people that work for Palantir do not see themselves as the bad guys. THe fact that Gina Haspell doesnt see herself as evil for her work for the company.


    and finally Carthage must be destroyed.

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