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Thread: The last laugh

  1. Link to Post #41
    United States Avalon Member RunningDeer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The last laugh

    Quote Posted by Eben Yblod
    Check out @eben****ac for the real deal . Info is all .
    My take was Eben wanted to get his twitter account out there. What better way than to write gibberish to make everyone go fish?

    PS I altered his twitter address in the quote.
    Last edited by RunningDeer; 8th February 2019 at 00:35.

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  3. Link to Post #42
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    Default Re: The last laugh

    Quote Posted by Forest Denizen (here)
    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    To me, ripple was never 'playful', he was stingy.
    I must say, I agree entirely with the actions of Bill and the Mods. And I agree with RunningDeer, I never found Ripple to be generous or particularly intelligent. He was really rather rude at times (occasionally downright mean) and was guilty of some of the attributes he professed to detest in others (e.g., thinking himself a know-it-all).

    I also find it hard to appreciate the views or understand the motivations of someone who professes to be a great admirer of Michael Shermer (Founder of the Skeptics Society). Talk about someone stuck in their little box of current scientific knowledge..

    However, that said, I'd love to have a beer with Ripple and discuss various topics while being able to watch each others lips move!
    Yeah... I get that people don't like ripple.

    And for that reason people seem to feel okay with how he was unsubscribed.

    I feel the way it happened and the way many actions are taken against forum members in general, while well-meaning from a parental point view, hurt the forum in the long run, because they are unprofessional.

    The truth is the relationship here is actually professional, not parental. That's a misguided notion that I think may be a part of problem.

    As one person told me, who was donating to the Bill and the forum, "I was paying to be insulted." (By Bill.) Once he realized this, he realized he could no longer support Bill. He no longer supports Bill with his donations.

    It's just something to consider.

    This is just another example of a pattern I've watched over the years, that seems never to be addressed.

    And as I said earlier, the numbers on the forum are diminishing, due in part, to this toxic pattern that never gets dealt with and resolved in a healthy way.

    Because I contacted ripple, and we exchanged emails, I get to stay in touch with him. So, it's not a loss for me.

    However, the pattern continues to be a loss for the forum.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    Quote Posted by Eben Yblod
    Check out @eben****ac for the real deal . Info is all .
    My take was Eben wanted to get his twitter account out there. What better way than to write gibberish to make everyone go fish?

    PS I altered his twitter address in the quote.
    That's one way to look at it. LOL
    Last edited by edina; 8th February 2019 at 00:51.

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  5. Link to Post #43
    United States Avalon Member Diziblueyez's Avatar
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    Default Re: The last laugh

    Quote Posted by edina (here)
    Quote Posted by Diziblueyez (here)
    Quote Posted by Eben Yblod (here)
    Not really .
    HAHAHAHA.. This whole thread is making me laugh.. Just sayin...
    You laugh a lot already anyways, right? LOL..."just sayin" written Texan style... or southern style,

    I think Eben's OP was more about information that may be coming out soon regarding the Secret Space Program,
    ... and John Lear... John Lear gets the last laugh, maybe?

    ****

    Note added here after I read Diziblueyez post below:

    ANYWAYS.... (LOL)

    Ha, I do that! I say it that way. (But I'm from Texas, not California.)
    HAHAHAHAHA.. THANK YOU FOR THAT! It took me quit some time to stop saying that... Yes I tend to laugh a lot. I have MS, and stress is a killer for people like me so I try to avoid it like the plague. I tend to be overly agreeable, and as a result, those around me tend to laugh a whole lot more... I was shocked to see this thread get so serious .. And being one of those people that hates confrontation, the first thing I thought was. UH OH. I WAS LAUGHING and that will appear AFTER this other stuff! OOPS...

    Then I realized I was blonde, and people would understand HAHAHAHAHA.. Thanks for taking it back to the light side... HUGS.

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  7. Link to Post #44
    United States Avalon Member Diziblueyez's Avatar
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    Default Re: The last laugh

    Quote Posted by edina (here)

    Diziblueyez, I hope you don't second guess yourself now.

    I think the original intent was humorous, and continued to be humorous, and the reason you reacted the way you did, is because you felt the original intent.

    That intent was misread, and ripples was unsubscribed because of it.

    You seem to me to be a naturally joyful person. So you read from the head and heart space of natural joy.

    Thank You so very much for that.. That was the nature in which I was fully following the thread until I misread that one post. Not having the history to rely on, it is easy for someone like me to completely misread a post.. I was laughing so hard when I saw Bill write.. "That's was me".. That coffee literally shot out of my nose..(No kidding)... I thought "Wow. how embarrassing for them to have BILL of all people, claim that was them".. I COMPLETELY misread what was going on, for reasons out of my control...

    I suppose we all see life through our own lens... And I had no choice but to lighten up, for health reasons. So I try my best to AVOID negative situations. And I am the type of person who actually cares if I upset someone or my intentions are taken out of context... I think we all have that inert sense, that we wish to be liked and understood for who we truly are. And while I am not needy for anyone else's approval? I DO want them to know that if I came off as rude or insensitive, and I am aware of it, that it absolutely was NOT my intention.

    (Seeing my posts that were all laughs AFTER ripple was banned, wasn't funny.... unless you realized they were to the previous thread posts.. ) I just never want to be misunderstood in that way...

    As far as the way I see life now? I believe that is an accurate assessment of who I am.. Thank you for noticing.. I work very hard at making sure that I do my very best to stay in that place. (I wear a red string on my wrist daily to remind me when I am feeling down, that really life could always be a whole lot worse, so let it go)...

    I have had some incredibly beautiful experiences recently that made me change the way I see life, and the human frailties... I had a contact experience that made me reevaluate my life. THE ENTIRE THING over the course of 6 months.. (It was literally shown to me, and I was asked, why I had done this or that, and what did I learn?).. And when it was over, I was very very proud of what I saw... While I had made some mistakes, I learned from them.. And never did I intentionally TRY to harm another in any way deliberately... I was so very proud of who I had become.. And I realized I was being far too hard on myself, and it was time to "Lighten up"..

    When I came here to Avalon, I felt like I had finally "Found my people".... Perhaps others that have had this "Mid life review", or at least those who sought out the truth in their own lives... I forgot that many others have had negative experiences, and also, that they were still in some of those same situations that cause them conflict within their own being.. Stresses at work, conflicting relationships, lack of support for who they are, the list goes on.. The LAST thing I want to do is seem insensitive.

    Truth be told... I have been home with my dogs for so long, I forgot that competitive behaviors still exist, in the work place, in daily relationships, etc.. In many ways my MS has become a blessing in so many ways in my life... The human condition sure does encompass a wide variety of elements to it, doesn't it? It pains me to see such division in ANY family unit... Even if it is an online family... People tell me I am Niave'.. I tell them "Perhaps", but in my eyes, it is in the most beautiful way possible... I don't want to believe that others would deliberately set out to hurt others.. That maybe there is a reason to the things that they're doing, etc... I don't want to give energy to negative things, it's really that simple. Not Niave', just very very careful where I devote my energies for my own well being...

    And life just seems so much more enjoyable when you're laughing...
    Life was meant to be enjoyed, laughter was created to be shared.. Thank you for noticing that I enjoy those things.. Because they mean everything to me.. And that's how I want others to see me, because that is how I see myself..

    Having shared that, I think I may have given out TMI lol... But it's ok.. You're family.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 9th February 2019 at 12:46. Reason: fixed quote formatting

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  9. Link to Post #45
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    Default Re: The last laugh

    Quote Posted by Diziblueyez (here)
    Quote Posted by edina (here)

    Diziblueyez, I hope you don't second guess yourself now.

    I think the original intent was humorous, and continued to be humorous, and the reason you reacted the way you did, is because you felt the original intent.

    That intent was misread, and ripples was unsubscribed because of it.

    You seem to me to be a naturally joyful person. So you read from the head and heart space of natural joy.
    Thank You so very much for that.. That was the nature in which I was fully following the thread until I misread that one post. Not having the history to rely on, it is easy for someone like me to completely misread a post.. I was laughing so hard when I saw Bill write.. "That's was me".. That coffee literally shot out of my nose..(No kidding)... I thought "Wow. how embarrassing for them to have BILL of all people, claim that was them".. I COMPLETELY misread what was going on, for reasons out of my control...

    I suppose we all see life through our own lens... And I had no choice but to lighten up, for health reasons. So I try my best to AVOID negative situations. And I am the type of person who actually cares if I upset someone or my intentions are taken out of context... I think we all have that inert sense, that we wish to be liked and understood for who we truly are. And while I am not needy for anyone else's approval? I DO want them to know that if I came off as rude or insensitive, and I am aware of it, that it absolutely was NOT my intention.

    (Seeing my posts that were all laughs AFTER ripple was banned, wasn't funny.... unless you realized they were to the previous thread posts.. ) I just never want to be misunderstood in that way...

    As far as the way I see life now? I believe that is an accurate assessment of who I am.. Thank you for noticing.. I work very hard at making sure that I do my very best to stay in that place. (I wear a red string on my wrist daily to remind me when I am feeling down, that really life could always be a whole lot worse, so let it go)...

    I have had some incredibly beautiful experiences recently that made me change the way I see life, and the human frailties... I had a contact experience that made me reevaluate my life. THE ENTIRE THING over the course of 6 months.. (It was literally shown to me, and I was asked, why I had done this or that, and what did I learn?).. And when it was over, I was very very proud of what I saw... While I had made some mistakes, I learned from them.. And never did I intentionally TRY to harm another in any way deliberately... I was so very proud of who I had become.. And I realized I was being far too hard on myself, and it was time to "Lighten up"..

    When I came here to Avalon, I felt like I had finally "Found my people".... Perhaps others that have had this "Mid life review", or at least those who sought out the truth in their own lives... I forgot that many others have had negative experiences, and also, that they were still in some of those same situations that cause them conflict within their own being.. Stresses at work, conflicting relationships, lack of support for who they are, the list goes on.. The LAST thing I want to do is seem insensitive.

    Truth be told... I have been home with my dogs for so long, I forgot that competitive behaviors still exist, in the work place, in daily relationships, etc.. In many ways my MS has become a blessing in so many ways in my life... The human condition sure does encompass a wide variety of elements to it, doesn't it? It pains me to see such division in ANY family unit... Even if it is an online family... People tell me I am Niave'.. I tell them "Perhaps", but in my eyes, it is in the most beautiful way possible... I don't want to believe that others would deliberately set out to hurt others.. That maybe there is a reason to the things that they're doing, etc... I don't want to give energy to negative things, it's really that simple. Not Niave', just very very careful where I devote my energies for my own well being...

    And life just seems so much more enjoyable when you're laughing...
    Life was meant to be enjoyed, laughter was created to be shared.. Thank you for noticing that I enjoy those things.. Because they mean everything to me.. And that's how I want others to see me, because that is how I see myself..

    Having shared that, I think I may have given out TMI lol... But it's ok.. You're family.
    Thank you for this Diziblueyez! It's beautiful and heart warming. And not TMI, at all.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 9th February 2019 at 12:50. Reason: fixed quote formatting

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  11. Link to Post #46
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    Default Re: The last laugh

    Quote Posted by edina (here)

    And for that reason people seem to feel okay with how he was unsubscribed. .
    Its not okay with me I actually like Ripples humor he add an air of lightness in this very serious forum (to me). but his loss is no deal to me we lost lots of people that I admire here in this forum. Just move on do what I have/want to do. we can view humor and seriousness as an spectrum each one has a different spectrum so much so that what is humor to some is seriousness to other and vv. I remembered when I was new here and I tried humor and one member bash me for it. What we need is to expand the spectrum of respect.

    some people also like to believe to be expert in human behavior but the truth is, no one size fits all different culture has different behaviors
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 9th February 2019 at 12:51. Reason: fixed quote formatting

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  13. Link to Post #47
    United States Moderator Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: The last laugh

    Guys it's like this:

    When you arrive at a gathering or a party or campfire or whatever, and you don't know anybody there, common courtesy dictates that you at least attempt to ingratiate yourself a little. A little! It's a show of respect. A complete lack of this displays a form of disrespect.

    Basic manners would ask that a new arrival to any family-like group not shout the loudest and talk the most and demand all the attention. Most grown adults should have this type of awareness.

    When joining an established group of people for a discussion, you can't expect the group to suddenly adjust to your nuances and peccadillos and quirky communication style. Not at first anyway. It's the new arrivals responsibility to adjust to the group. The goal shouldn't be to overwhelm with your personality, it should be to feel the group out and look for opportunities to express your uniqueness...so everyone can slowly adjust to your eccentric style.

    this requires awareness....awareness of who you are and what your communication style is like, and a knowing that it may rub a few people the wrong way if not adjusted slightly. it also requires respect...respect for the people around you that may appreciate this slight adjustment. it also requires a pinch of humility...because you are now part of a group that requires you to consider people other than yourself.

    Ripple was smart and funny and i enjoyed reading him sometimes, but he was also a bull in a china shop.. and sorely lacking in all the qualities i just mentioned. The effort it would have taken him to be just a bit more congenial would have been minimal, but he was unwilling to make it. and that's why he's no longer here. i liked him, and i'm just as disappointed as some of you are, but he had to go.

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    Default Re: The last laugh

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Guys it's like this:

    When you arrive at a gathering or a party or campfire or whatever, and you don't know anybody there, common courtesy dictates that you at least attempt to ingratiate yourself a little. A little! It's a show of respect. A complete lack of this displays a form of disrespect.

    Basic manners would ask that a new arrival to any family-like group not shout the loudest and talk the most and demand all the attention. Most grown adults should have this type of awareness.

    When joining an established group of people for a discussion, you can't expect the group to suddenly adjust to your nuances and peccadillos and quirky communication style. Not at first anyway. It's the new arrivals responsibility to adjust to the group. The goal shouldn't be to overwhelm with your personality, it should be to feel the group out and look for opportunities to express your uniqueness...so everyone can slowly adjust to your eccentric style.

    this requires awareness....awareness of who you are and what your communication style is like, and a knowing that it may rub a few people the wrong way if not adjusted slightly. it also requires respect...respect for the people around you that may appreciate this slight adjustment. it also requires a pinch of humility...because you are now part of a group that requires you to consider people other than yourself.

    Ripple was smart and funny and i enjoyed reading him sometimes, but he was also a bull in a china shop.. and sorely lacking in all the qualities i just mentioned. The effort it would have taken him to be just a bit more congenial would have been minimal, but he was unwilling to make it. and that's why he's no longer here. i liked him, and i'm just as disappointed as some of you are, but he had to go.
    Mike, I appreciate what your trying to express here. However, this works both ways.

    My understanding from reading Bill's post is that no one from the mod staff had yet had a real conversation with ripple. One person, Tintin, evidently volunteered to play good cop???

    Do you realize how condescending that sounds?

    But, Bill could not be sure that even happened.

    The action against ripple comes off as a knee-jerk retaliatory action. One taken from assumptions which may not be true, and in no way could be discerned as true, because no one on the staff had actually had a real conversation with ripple.

    I experienced the same thing when I was suspended last Sept. No one ever contacted me from the staff. As did Kiwi. No one contacted him either.

    It comes off as arbitrary.

    Again, I didn't appreciate the assassination of my character, in Bill's comments in the moderators logs, as a rationalization and justification for that action, either.

    Also, this is exactly what Bill was doing in the Q thread. Just what you described here. So this looks like "double standards."

    It's this pattern of behavior I'm talking about. It's problematic, and has been for years now.

    This is why I asked what the protocols were for the staff to make decisions on the actions they take.

    In the real world, this would never fly.

    I'm having a hard time understanding why it's so okay to people for this to happen.
    Last edited by edina; 8th February 2019 at 03:57.

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    Default Re: The last laugh

    Hi Edina, I appreciate your thoughtfulness and everything you wrote there!

    The situation with Ripple may have been handled just slightly differently than a typical unsubscribe, but I assure you, it wasn't arbitrary. It was talked over and deliberated and given quite a bit of thought.

    Let me ask you a question, and I'm being just a little playful here: knowing what you know of Ripple, his personality and approach and so on: does he seem like the sort of guy who'd be willing to make adjustments to satisfy a mod request? (in my mind's eye I can see him enthusiastically giving us the bird LOL...and God bless him, that's his style)

    Here's the thing: as Bill said, we were getting complaints about Ripple left and right. Despite his admirable wit and intelligence, he was blatantly disrespecting members all over the place.

    He was already on very thin ice when he was insulting and disrespectful to Bill, and that was it.

    The method of unsubscribing someone isn't perfect, and doesn't always follow the same exact process. And the moderators are far from perfect, but we do our best to make the proper decisions for the greater good of the forum. We're going to make calls that upset some people! And I'm sorry this decision has upset you, but we collectively feel it's the right one.

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    Default Re: The last laugh

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Hi Edina, I appreciate your thoughtfulness and everything you wrote there!

    The situation with Ripple may have been handled just slightly differently than a typical unsubscribe, but I assure you, it wasn't arbitrary. It was talked over and deliberated and given quite a bit of thought.

    Let me ask you a question, and I'm being just a little playful here: knowing what you know of Ripple, his personality and approach and so on: does he seem like the sort of guy who'd be willing to make adjustments to satisfy a mod request? (in my mind's eye I can see him enthusiastically giving us the bird LOL...and God bless him, that's his style)

    Here's the thing: as Bill said, we were getting complaints about Ripple left and right. Despite his admirable wit and intelligence, he was blatantly disrespecting members all over the place.

    He was already on very thin ice when he was insulting and disrespectful to Bill, and that was it.

    The process of unsubscribing someone isn't perfect, and doesn't always follow the same exact process. And the moderators are far from perfect, but we do our best to make the proper decisions for the greater good of the forum. We're going to make calls that upset some people! And I'm sorry this decision has upset you, but we collectively feel it's the right one.
    I think the very basic protocol ought to be to at least contact the person the action is being considered against. That is the minimal level of human decency.

    Communication is important to prevent inaccurate assumptions of intent.

    You talk of respect.

    Do you think it is respectful to members to take actions against them without at least having a conversation with them on the matter in question?

    Also, with a protocol in place on how to handle reports, you will have a system to handle people who abuse the reporting system as a means for personal vendettas.

    And it will help the staff stay objective, rather than subjective in their decisions.

    Note added:

    Oh and yes, my experiences with ripple is that he is reasonable. In fact, a part of the many misunderstandings that seem to happen in regard to him, is that he highly bent to reason and rational thinking. The intellectual style of communication can feel disrespectful to people who rate high on the feeling style of communication. That doesn't make ripple inherently disrespectful. It means that people have different communication styles.
    Last edited by edina; 8th February 2019 at 04:47.

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    Default Re: The last laugh

    Personally, I've been feeling that the Mod team has been doing a great job lately with keeping the boundaries on Avalon secure.
    I've sometimes wished they weren't quite so patient!
    A couple of times I was teetering on the edge myself, and so I am especially grateful that I was given the benefit of the doubt.
    And a couple of times I've felt sad to see some people go, but I never felt that unsubscribing them was actually uncalled for.
    But after being on the forum for a long enough time, one kind of gets a sense for who is going to last and who is going to leave or be asked to leave.
    A lot of members are Intuitives and so sense things that others don't pick up on until later.
    One thing that some members don't consider is that there may have been discussion going on via private messages between the unsubscribed and the Mods that contributed to the decision to unsubscribe someone.
    Or that information may have come in from elsewhere ( as in from other forums that those in question were also members of), where they made disparaging remarks about Avalon, or information became available from some other source demonstrating the person in question was being dishonest or was just not going to work out for one reason or another.
    I think there have also been cases where there was a real change of heart and ex-members have been readmitted.
    Avalon sets the standard in a lot of ways for forums like this, and especially considering that the Mods are volunteers and donating their time, there is a lot to be thankful for.
    Last edited by onawah; 8th February 2019 at 04:58.
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    Default Re: The last laugh

    Quote Posted by edina (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Hi Edina, I appreciate your thoughtfulness and everything you wrote there!

    The situation with Ripple may have been handled just slightly differently than a typical unsubscribe, but I assure you, it wasn't arbitrary. It was talked over and deliberated and given quite a bit of thought.

    Let me ask you a question, and I'm being just a little playful here: knowing what you know of Ripple, his personality and approach and so on: does he seem like the sort of guy who'd be willing to make adjustments to satisfy a mod request? (in my mind's eye I can see him enthusiastically giving us the bird LOL...and God bless him, that's his style)

    Here's the thing: as Bill said, we were getting complaints about Ripple left and right. Despite his admirable wit and intelligence, he was blatantly disrespecting members all over the place.

    He was already on very thin ice when he was insulting and disrespectful to Bill, and that was it.

    The process of unsubscribing someone isn't perfect, and doesn't always follow the same exact process. And the moderators are far from perfect, but we do our best to make the proper decisions for the greater good of the forum. We're going to make calls that upset some people! And I'm sorry this decision has upset you, but we collectively feel it's the right one.
    I think the very basic protocol ought to be to at least contact the person the action is being considered against. That is the minimal level of human decency.

    Communication is important to prevent inaccurate assumptions of intent.

    You talk of respect.

    Do you think it is respectful to members to take actions against them without at least having a conversation with them on the matter in question?

    Also, with a protocol in place on how to handle reports, you will have a system to handle people who abuse the reporting system as a means for personal vendettas.

    And it will help the staff stay objective, rather than subjective in their decisions.

    Note added:

    Oh and yes, my experiences with ripple is that he is reasonable. In fact, a part of the many misunderstandings that seem to happen in regard to him, is that he highly bent to reason and rational thinking. The intellectual style of communication can feel disrespectful to people who rate high on the feeling style of communication. That doesn't make ripple inherently disrespectful. It means that people have different communication styles.
    If you already have a protocol in place, ... that's great.

    What is it?

    If not, I'm only asking that you consider it.

    Like I said, the forum numbers are dwindling for a reason...

    ******

    (For example, when the actions the staff took against me and Kiwi happened in September, Avalon didn't just lose me, KiwiElf and turiya.

    Avalon lost almost 75% of the viewership of this forum, and about 50% of the active online membership dropped.

    How that affected donations, I don't know?

    The membership is only now recovering. The viewership still hasn't.

    That happened for a reason.

    Every time it happens the Avalon community grows smaller.

    If this is not addressed, at some point, it may not recover, at all.

    Watching this happen to so many good and great members over the years is the reason why I didn't fully engage back into the forum, when I returned to follow the QAnon thread.

    Think of this as a customer who is giving the business of the Project Avalon Forum valuable customer feedback to the question, "Why are customers not returning?"

    And on top of that, offering a potential solution. I'm solutions-focused. An old habit I learned from my days in the Air Force.
    )
    Last edited by edina; 8th February 2019 at 18:27.

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    Default Re: The last laugh

    one of the main, if not the main reason the society had gone nuts is because people let the authorities decide on the faith of the society. people should take responsibility of overseeing the safety and orderly of the society. its easy enough to have a poll on avalon.
    ex.

    Bubu the snide has cause a lot of s*** on avalon lately. here is his actions blah blah blah. shall we suspend him or send him to Venezuela for good? no action = 0 , suspend= 0 , send to venezuela= 100
    Last edited by Bubu; 8th February 2019 at 08:19.

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  26. Link to Post #54
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    Default Re: The last laugh

    Quote Posted by Bubu (here)
    one of the main, if not the main reason the society had gone nuts is because people let the authorities decide on the faith of the society. people should take responsibility of overseeing the safety and orderly of the society. its easy enough to have a poll on avalon.
    ex.

    Bubu the snide has cause a lot of s*** on avalon lately. here is his actions blah blah blah. shall we suspend him or send him to Venezuela for good? no action = 0 , suspend= 0 , send to venezuela= 100
    This idea comes up a lot.

    It sounds good in theory, but doesn't work in practice.

    It leads to a form of mob-acracy, and/or personality contests.

    What I'm suggesting is to put principles over personalities.

    And to have a system in place that is objective, consistent, and therefore feels more fair to everyone.

    In the broader internet, Avalon is referred to as a cultish, and clichish.

    It's this sort of thing that supports that image that's out there about Avalon.

    I just watched a youtube video last night, and would occasionally glance at the super chat streaming along with the video.
    What struck me about it is how so much of that conversation would bring out the behavior police in this forum, but in that chat it was vibrant, vital, full of energy, funny and fun.
    I thought to myself, "Of course, people are going to prefer the social environment of that sort of free flowing conversation."

    It's more human.

    If everyone becomes a cookie cutter version of a sort of non-spoken idea or image of what is socially acceptable in a forum, it loses it vitality.

    When I first joined Avalon, Bill talked about David Boehme's book, On Dialogue.

    I remember looking more closely at that book, and it was insightful to me of how conversations can generate transformative thinking.

    Quote Bohm Dialogue (also known as Bohmian Dialogue) is a freely-flowing group conversation that makes an attempt, utilizing a theoretical understanding of the way thoughts relate to universal reality, to more effectively investigate the crises that face society, and indeed the whole of human nature and consciousness.

    In a Bohm dialogue, twenty to forty participants sit in a circle for a few hours during regular meetings, or for a few days in a workshop environment. This is done with no predefined purpose, no agenda, other than that of inquiring into the movement of thought, and exploring the process of "thinking together" collectively. This activity can allow group participants to examine their preconceptions and prejudices, as well as to explore the more general movement of thought. Bohm's intention regarding the suggested minimum number of participants was to replicate a social/cultural dynamic (rather than a family dynamic). This form of dialogue seeks to enable an awareness of why communicating in the verbal sphere is so much more difficult and conflict-ridden than in all other areas of human activity and endeavor.

    Participants in the Bohmian form of dialogue "suspend" their beliefs, opinions, impulses, and judgments while speaking together, in order to see the movement of the group's thought processes and what their effects may be. According to Dialogue a Proposal [Bohm, Factor, Garrett], this kind of dialogue should not be confused with discussion or debate, both of which, says Bohm, suggest working towards a goal or reaching a decision, rather than simply exploring and learning. Meeting without an agenda or fixed objective is done to create a "free space" for something new to happen.

    "...it may turn out that such a form of free exchange of ideas and information is of fundamental relevance for transforming culture and freeing it of destructive misinformation, so that creativity can be liberated." David Bohm
    That was when Avalon had a much better reputation within the broader community.

    Somehow, over the years, this has become lost in this forum.

    Maybe, it's too late, and I am just whispering in the wind, and cannot stop the downward spiral.

    But, at least, I've tried.

    ****

    Note added: After thought....

    I would also suggest that admin rethink the practice of using shaming tactics to try to bring people into compliance. People do not enjoy watching other people shamed, especially by the authority of the forum.

    That was the icky feeling I got back in Sept. I didn't know what it was when I wrote "icky feeling". But later that evening, I figured it out.

    The reason why it felt "icky" is because my mirror neurons were firing in response to what I was being forced to see. An attempt to try to humiliate Kiwi.

    Earlier that week, I had tried to put Bill on "ignore", but found I couldn't because he was admin.

    That's what really got me to thinking about all of this.

    A system or protocol to address issues in the forum would be a counterbalance, putting principles over personalities.

    There are no easy answers, it's just something to consider.

    And this in no way means I don't appreciate the hard sincere efforts of Bill, the staff and the membership of Avalon in general. I do.

    Sometimes, doing the unpopular thing, is the right thing to do.
    Last edited by edina; 8th February 2019 at 16:50.

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  28. Link to Post #55
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    Default Re: The last laugh

    Quote Posted by edina (here)
    Quote Posted by Bubu (here)
    one of the main, if not the main reason the society had gone nuts is because people let the authorities decide on the faith of the society. people should take responsibility of overseeing the safety and orderly of the society. its easy enough to have a poll on avalon.
    ex.

    Bubu the snide has cause a lot of s*** on avalon lately. here is his actions blah blah blah. shall we suspend him or send him to Venezuela for good? no action = 0 , suspend= 0 , send to venezuela= 100
    This idea comes up a lot.

    It sounds good in theory, but doesn't work in practice.

    It leads to a form of mob-acracy, and/or personality contests.

    What I'm suggesting is to put principles over personalities.

    And to have a system in place that is objective, consistent, and therefore feels more fair to everyone.

    In the broader internet, Avalon is referred to as a cultish, and clichish.

    It's this sort of thing that supports that image that's out there about Avalon.

    I just watched a youtube video last night, and would occasionally glance at the super chat streaming along with the video.
    What struck me about it is how so much of that conversation would bring out the behavior police in this forum, but in that chat it was vibrant, vital, full of energy, funny and fun.
    I thought to myself, "Of course, people are going to prefer the social environment of that sort of free flowing conversation."

    It's more human.

    If everyone becomes a cookie cutter version of a sort of non-spoken idea or image of what is socially acceptable in a forum, it loses it vitality.

    When I first joined Avalon, Bill talked about David Boehme's book, On Dialogue.

    I remember looking more closely at that book, and it was insightful to me of how conversations can generate transformative thinking.

    Quote Bohm Dialogue (also known as Bohmian Dialogue) is a freely-flowing group conversation that makes an attempt, utilizing a theoretical understanding of the way thoughts relate to universal reality, to more effectively investigate the crises that face society, and indeed the whole of human nature and consciousness.

    In a Bohm dialogue, twenty to forty participants sit in a circle for a few hours during regular meetings, or for a few days in a workshop environment. This is done with no predefined purpose, no agenda, other than that of inquiring into the movement of thought, and exploring the process of "thinking together" collectively. This activity can allow group participants to examine their preconceptions and prejudices, as well as to explore the more general movement of thought. Bohm's intention regarding the suggested minimum number of participants was to replicate a social/cultural dynamic (rather than a family dynamic). This form of dialogue seeks to enable an awareness of why communicating in the verbal sphere is so much more difficult and conflict-ridden than in all other areas of human activity and endeavor.

    Participants in the Bohmian form of dialogue "suspend" their beliefs, opinions, impulses, and judgments while speaking together, in order to see the movement of the group's thought processes and what their effects may be. According to Dialogue a Proposal [Bohm, Factor, Garrett], this kind of dialogue should not be confused with discussion or debate, both of which, says Bohm, suggest working towards a goal or reaching a decision, rather than simply exploring and learning. Meeting without an agenda or fixed objective is done to create a "free space" for something new to happen.

    "...it may turn out that such a form of free exchange of ideas and information is of fundamental relevance for transforming culture and freeing it of destructive misinformation, so that creativity can be liberated." David Bohm
    That was when Avalon had a much better reputation within the broader community.

    Somehow, over the years, this has become lost in this forum.

    Maybe, it's too late, and I am just whispering in the wind, and cannot stop the downward spiral.

    But, at least, I've tried.

    ****

    Note added: After thought....

    I would also suggest that admin rethink the practice of using shaming tactics to try to bring people into compliance. People do not enjoy watching other people shamed, especially by the authority of the forum.

    That was the icky feeling I got back in Sept. I didn't know what it was when I wrote "icky feeling". But later that evening, I figured it out.

    The reason why it felt "icky" is because my mirror neurons were firing in response to what I was being forced to see. An attempt to try to humiliate Kiwi.

    Earlier that week, I had tried to put Bill on "ignore", but found I couldn't because he was admin.

    That's what really got me to thinking about all of this.

    A system or protocol to address issues in the forum would be a counterbalance, putting principles over personalities.

    There are no easy answers, it's just something to consider.

    And this in no way means I don't appreciate the hard sincere efforts of Bill, the staff and the membership of Avalon in general. I do.

    Sometimes, doing the unpopular thing, is the right thing to do.
    If the consensus is happy, I suppose none of this matters....
    Last edited by edina; 8th February 2019 at 16:51.

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  30. Link to Post #56
    England Avalon Member Did You See Them's Avatar
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    Default Re: The last laugh

    Never had any much time for Ripples supposed "humour" - and I'm English !

    First I saw of him was on this thread I started.

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...105816-Hellier

    Didn't think much of his replies !! ( go take a look and decide if he's being humorous or just plain rude !)
    His observations on that thread might have been accurate regarding the posted videos but his tone left a lot to be desired.

    Never complained mind - but not surprised that other have if what I'd seen was anything to go by.

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    Default Re: The last laugh

    Quote Posted by Did You See Them (here)
    Never had any much time for Ripples supposed "humour" - and I'm English !

    First I saw of him was on this thread I started.

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...105816-Hellier

    Didn't think much of his replies !! ( go take a look and decide if he's being humorous or just plain rude !)
    His observations on that thread might have been accurate regarding the posted videos but his tone left a lot to be desired.

    Never complained mind - but not surprised that other have if what I'd seen was anything to go by.
    Thanks for sharing.

    Again, I'm talking about process, not personalities.

    Using principles and a system to be consistent rather than knee-jerk in actions taken against forum members.

    One could ask: Was Bill actually insulted, or did he chose to take offense?

    And from this choice and the emotions that came with that choice, made his decision?

    The typical answer is "It's his forum." True.

    And if the people paying for this forum are okay with that, which most people responding seem to be, then this conversation about ideas probably doesn't matter.
    Last edited by edina; 8th February 2019 at 16:44.

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  34. Link to Post #58
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    Default Re: The last laugh

    Quote Posted by edina (here)
    Quote Posted by Did You See Them (here)
    Never had any much time for Ripples supposed "humour" - and I'm English !

    First I saw of him was on this thread I started.

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...105816-Hellier

    Didn't think much of his replies !! ( go take a look and decide if he's being humorous or just plain rude !)
    His observations on that thread might have been accurate regarding the posted videos but his tone left a lot to be desired.

    Never complained mind - but not surprised that other have if what I'd seen was anything to go by.
    Thanks for sharing.

    Again, I'm talking about process, not personalities.

    Using principles and a system to be consistent rather than knee-jerk in actions taken against forum members.

    One could ask: Was Bill actually insulted, or did he chose to take offense?

    And from this choice and the emotions that came with that choice, made his decision?

    The typical answer is "It's his forum." True.

    And if people paying for this forum are okay with that, which most people responding seem to be, then this conversation about ideas probably doesn't matter.
    Off now to do the AT Training.

    I think this conversation has probably been spent.

    Happy day to all

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    Morocco Avalon Member PurpleLama's Avatar
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    Default Re: The last laugh

    Quote Posted by Bubu (here)
    one of the main, if not the main reason the society had gone nuts is because people let the authorities decide on the faith of the society. people should take responsibility of overseeing the safety and orderly of the society. its easy enough to have a poll on avalon.
    ex.

    Bubu the snide has cause a lot of s*** on avalon lately. here is his actions blah blah blah. shall we suspend him or send him to Venezuela for good? no action = 0 , suspend= 0 , send to venezuela= 100
    Make that 101 for, send to Venezuela, for failing to capitalize Venezuela!
    God bless the Fae
    God bless Me

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  38. Link to Post #60
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    Default Re: The last laugh

    oh, and to bring this back on topic, although in many ways this never went truly off topic... (see Monty p .)

    Thinking about how this forum has evolved from David Boehme's "On Dialogue" to micro-management.

    I watched this last night, fascinating.... Antarctica!

    And there were even comments below the video of how researcher Linda Moulton Howe"s voice was so good.


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