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Thread: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

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    Avalon Member Soullight's Avatar
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    Default VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    I reluctantly had to purchase a new smart phone as mine was dying. When talking to the tech guy about privacy issues he discussed how he uses a VPN and Onion (TOR) browser.

    I guess if you are going to get online nothing is secure anymore regardless of what you use. But IF there is a way to stay private, using both a good VPN and a TOR browser makes sense.

    Does anyone know a good and VERIFIABLE safe VPN?

    And as far as using an onion browser (TOR) I have no idea what that really is, where to find one and how to use it. Any help would be appreciated.


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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    Quote Posted by Soullight (here)
    I reluctantly had to purchase a new smart phone as mine was dying. When talking to the tech guy about privacy issues he discussed how he uses a VPN and Onion (TOR) browser.

    I guess if you are going to get online nothing is secure anymore regardless of what you use. But IF there is a way to stay private, using both a good VPN and a TOR browser makes sense.

    Does anyone know a good and VERIFIABLE safe VPN?

    And as far as using an onion browser (TOR) I have no idea what that really is, where to find one and how to use it. Any help would be appreciated.

    Many VPNs will track what you do as well, so finding a good one is probably a good idea, but I don't have advice in this area.

    Tor Browser (its a browser based around Firefox that uses Tor networks) works similarly to a VPN, in the sense that it makes several connections so you have some distance between where you are on the web and where your computer thinks you are. Not sure if anything is 100% secure these days as far as the internet is concerned.

    I'm sure Paul will be along shortly to perhaps provide better info and recommendations.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    United States Avalon Member RedX's Avatar
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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    I use ExpressVPN and pay 99USD per year for it. There are free options and browser add-ons out there but most come with restrictions and ads. Free VPN options also don't update their IP's very often (which leads them to being blocked) and often won't connect to Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc...

    ExpressVPN comes with a 30 day money back guarantee. I've had zero problems and have been using them for 3+ years.

    https://www.expressvpn.com

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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    Tor works really well, and is free: it's identical to the Firefox browser, so for Firefox users it's almost indistinguishable. Download here:
    The drawback (for some) is that as best I know, with Tor you can't SPECIFY where you want to pretend to be. It just redirects you (reroutes you) to another country randomly.

    But the EASIEST and most user-friendly VPN may be Tunnelbear:
    They're free up to 500 Mb/month. If you need more than that, you subscribe. But you can choose your country, and it literally couldn't be easier. One click to select your country from a little toolbar menu, and it takes you there if you ever need it. It's as quick and simple as one can imagine.



    And a really neat story about Tunnelbear, that made me love them forever. I had a technical query one time, so I wrote to them to ask a question. The support reply came back: "Hey, you're Bill Ryan from Project Avalon! I've been following you for years."

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 12th February 2019 at 12:59.

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    Bhutan Avalon Member enigma3's Avatar
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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    I would be interested in other Avalonians coming forward with their chosen VPN. I don't have one yet - trying to decide.

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    Virgin Islands Avalon Member TargeT's Avatar
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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    Security theater....

    TOR has been comprimised, VPN's too... don't live in fear, more healthy & saves time too!

    (VPN's are great for getting around IP restrictions though).

    Keep your software up to date; don't run software you don't know about (don't click on links in emails unless you requested them) & just use a pinch of common sense. That is the best you can do really.
    There was a 1: 400,000,000,000,000 chance of you being born: what have you done with your miraculous life today?

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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    As TargeT mentioned, TOR has long since been compromised and originating IP addresses can sometimes be leaked through features such as Java Script. I rarely use TOR without using a VPN over it. TOR is a government creation after all, so.........

    I have used multiple VPN's. My favorite is Proton VPN (same as proton mail). The speed and choices are excellent.

    A word of caution for Android users. My secondary VPN does not work on the Samsung Galaxy Note (the latest version). Just make sure your current VPN works on that system. The easiest way is to routinely do an IP search on yourself.

    When choosing a VPN, always choose one that does not keep logs! I am comfortable with Proton's word on that.
    Ask not what Avalon can do for you, but what you can do for Avalon.

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    Quote Posted by kaon (here)
    As TargeT mentioned, TOR has long since been compromised and originating IP addresses can sometimes be leaked through features such as Java Script. I rarely use TOR without using a VPN over it. TOR is a government creation after all, so.........

    I have used multiple VPN's. My favorite is Proton VPN (same as proton mail). The speed and choices are excellent.

    A word of caution for Android users. My secondary VPN does not work on the Samsung Galaxy Note (the latest version). Just make sure your current VPN works on that system. The easiest way is to routinely do an IP search on yourself.

    When choosing a VPN, always choose one that does not keep logs! I am comfortable with Proton's word on that.
    Java should be disabled be default in Tor - at least it used to be. That's not a compromise of Tor though - that is a "feature" of Javascript. There's still plenty of risky behaviours that one can do while using Tor, like opening a PDF, playing certain media files while still connected, etc. If one is going to use Tor, one shoudl also read up on what Tor does and oes not protect you against - the browser itself nags you to read their best practices guide.

    All that said, as I said in my earlier post, almost nothing is 100% secure and everything should be considered as such.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Avalon Member Soullight's Avatar
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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    Thanks to everyone for replying and the links!

    I heard through the grape vine that any FREE VPN was probably not the best to use. That they were more than likely a compromised or sell-out VPN, whether you take their free services or pay them. Don't know enough about this subject to even know how you would begin to verify such a thing.

    "TargeT" is probably right that both TOR and VPN's are compromised. And we shouldn't live in fear. Of course, I'm not looking into this issue due to fear. And I'm sure there are always powers that can access anything we do. But can they openly function and be accepted in the laws of our current culture?

    I think there are two relevant positions here.

    1. VPN's and TOR can help keep certain unwanted people from spying on you, etc.

    2. By using a VPN and TOR I am declaring my "legal consent" to privacy, etc. If I am using a service that is suppose to protect my legal privacy, then I am saying that I want privacy and no one should be able compromise that privacy without their act being a violation, hence illegal.

    So, whether or not some Government or entity compromises my legal privacy is not something I can control. The best I can do is SHOW my intent was "legal privacy" and they would have to somehow show how their violation of my legal privacy was right.

    Obviously those in Power can adjust or circumvent the rules and laws to suit their ends. But we can only do the best we can do.


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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    Quote Posted by enigma3 (here)
    I would be interested in other Avalonians coming forward with their chosen VPN. I don't have one yet - trying to decide.
    I like PIA (private internet access). I think it's about $6/month if you buy a year or two. It's multiplatform (windows, mac, linux) and lets you change virtual location on the fly, or exit the vpn with a click if you want to access a website that screens out vpn users, such as yelp.

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    UK Avalon Member Mike Gorman's Avatar
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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    It is ironic that people become so anxious about privacy when it comes to digital media, because this is a new paradigm of communication, exposure and transparency is actually a big part of all digital media.
    What is it you wish to conceal, your identity, your opinions? The government in all western countries is able to keep track of you, simply through being a citizen, you have to register your identity in order to drive a car,
    to obtain a mortgage, to receive state benefits, in fact just to exist in a city/town/village.
    This also intrigues me, why do people insist on using anonymous accounts, 'baggypants238', your location and identity is completely known!
    The TOR, 'Onion' browser was actually developed in the United States Naval research lab; so it is well known by those you wish to conceal your activities from.
    Personally, and of course this is my opinion after working in the Information Technology industry since 1996, I don't bother about privacy because everything you do online is completely traceable, and open to anyone who wishes to look.
    I use my real name, and stand by what I produce online, I think you have to understand that digital media is a totally different communications model.
    Intentions are the essential part, we can forgive many things if they intended in the right spirit

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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    I use a VPN simply because I download a lot of torrents. I kept receiving cease and desist emails from my ISP when I was downloading Game Of Thrones episodes....but once I subscribed to a VPN I never received another email again.

    Dave - Toronto

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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    You might want to watch this episode of Dave Janda where he talks with Paul Rosenburg of Cryptohippie. Dave does have a flair for drama but he feels this has protected him. I don't know enough about VPNs to comment but it may be worth exploring.

    Maybe you're not so interested in hiding from the govt, which is just about impossible anyway, but keeping your data secure from the typical hacker.

    His product is described in the interview with DJ and below:

    Quote Our primary product is called Road Warrior. It creates a strongly encrypted connection from your computer to the Cryptohippie anonymity network. From there, your information passes through at least two national jurisdictions, loses all association with your identifiers and emerges from our network at a distant location.

    But, even with all of this going on, you can surf, check your email, use Skype, and everything else exactly as you have been. Unless you reveal it yourself, no one can see who you are or where you may be.

    Bouncing your signal between continents does slow you down a bit, but usually no more than 10%.

    Road Warrior works with Mac, Windows and Linux operating systems. And, you can use one account to protect both desktop and laptop machines, simultaneously. Unless you do a lot of downloading, you won't need a separate account for each computer.

    You can see how our system works here.

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    Avalon Member Soullight's Avatar
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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    Quote Posted by Mike Gorman (here)
    It is ironic that people become so anxious about privacy when it comes to digital media, because this is a new paradigm of communication, exposure and transparency is actually a big part of all digital media.
    What is it you wish to conceal, your identity, your opinions? The government in all western countries is able to keep track of you, simply through being a citizen, you have to register your identity in order to drive a car,
    to obtain a mortgage, to receive state benefits, in fact just to exist in a city/town/village.
    This also intrigues me, why do people insist on using anonymous accounts, 'baggypants238', your location and identity is completely known!
    The TOR, 'Onion' browser was actually developed in the United States Naval research lab; so it is well known by those you wish to conceal your activities from.
    Personally, and of course this is my opinion after working in the Information Technology industry since 1996, I don't bother about privacy because everything you do online is completely traceable, and open to anyone who wishes to look.
    I use my real name, and stand by what I produce online, I think you have to understand that digital media is a totally different communications model.
    I can't stand this type of ignorance or nescience in the guise of intelligence. No offense fellow earther!

    Listen closely...(or read closely)

    Humans are dangerous! They have knee-jerk, spiteful, brooding, vengeful and obsessive reactions.

    Statistically, even if it’s rare, you risk a much greater chance at harm or intrusion from others when you put your face and name out there. That alone is enough of a reason to seek privacy online.

    It's like the insane Democrats who say a wall is too expensive and immoral and for us to get rid of guns, but put walls around their million dollar homes and have security guards with guns.

    And if you think you can speak your mind truthfully, even if you try to be kind and considerate, you will discover that someone, somewhere, will find you offensive, or a threat. And if they can silence you, they will in any way they can. So, feel free to expose yourself online. But personally, I think such people are naïve at best, and I’ll keep "the worse" comment to myself. And BTW this applies to private forums, such as this.

    Now, as far as the Government, or their military/agencies, knowing everything anyway. I can’t speak to other countries, since obviously many of them are already dead or screwed, the UK (London in particular) being a good example of a dying if not already dead realm. Here in America the Government is supposed to be the people. And if you f#@k with the people’s freedoms here you’re going to get sued at best, or some other serious repercussion.

    However, if the Deepstate or Illuminati wins then all of this will be academic. But they’re NOT going to win if I have ANY say. So, a VPN and a Onion browser seems reasonable to me.

    Last edited by Soullight; 13th February 2019 at 10:28.

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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    Quote Posted by Mike Gorman (here)
    It is ironic that people become so anxious about privacy when it comes to digital media, because this is a new paradigm of communication, exposure and transparency is actually a big part of all digital media.
    What is it you wish to conceal, your identity, your opinions? The government in all western countries is able to keep track of you, simply through being a citizen, you have to register your identity in order to drive a car,
    to obtain a mortgage, to receive state benefits, in fact just to exist in a city/town/village.
    This also intrigues me, why do people insist on using anonymous accounts, 'baggypants238', your location and identity is completely known!
    The TOR, 'Onion' browser was actually developed in the United States Naval research lab; so it is well known by those you wish to conceal your activities from.
    Personally, and of course this is my opinion after working in the Information Technology industry since 1996, I don't bother about privacy because everything you do online is completely traceable, and open to anyone who wishes to look.
    I use my real name, and stand by what I produce online, I think you have to understand that digital media is a totally different communications model.
    If you are targeted by a deep state agency, they MIGHT employ the resources to figure out what you're doing on-line. But in the meantime, if you use a VPN or TOR your privacy is protected from official govt agencies, especially local, as well as corporate interests. PLUS, what you put online is there forever, so why make it easy for someone to gather evidence against you in some future distopia?

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    UK Avalon Member Clear Light's Avatar
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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    Quote Posted by Soullight (here)
    2. By using a VPN and TOR I am declaring my "legal consent" to privacy, etc. If I am using a service that is suppose to protect my legal privacy, then I am saying that I want privacy and no one should be able compromise that privacy without their act being a violation, hence illegal.

    So, whether or not some Government or entity compromises my legal privacy is not something I can control. The best I can do is SHOW my intent was "legal privacy" and they would have to somehow show how their violation of my legal privacy was right.

    Obviously those in Power can adjust or circumvent the rules and laws to suit their ends. But we can only do the best we can do.
    Oh, perhaps related to what you're saying in point 2, but if you were to use NordVPN (as an example) :

    Quote Privacy Policy | NordVPN

    NordVPN guarantees a strict no-logs policy for NordVPN services, meaning that your activities using NordVPN Services are provided by automated technical process, are not monitored, recorded, logged, stored or passed to any third party. We do not store connection time stamps, session information, used bandwidth, traffic logs, IP addresses or other data. From the moment a NordVPN.com user turns on the NordVPN.com software, their Internet data becomes encrypted. Any online traffic coming from user’s device is no longer visible to ISP, third-party snoopers or cyber criminals. Further, NordVPN have a strict no logs policy when it comes to seeing user activity online: NordVPN is based in Panama, which does not require data storage.
    And :

    Quote Jurisdiction we operate in

    We are based and operate under the jurisdiction of Panama. There is no mandatory data retention law in Panama so we do not need to store logs which is perfect for a VPN provider.
    Now I don't know if there are more VPN providers who also make the same claim (if it still applies even in 2019) but it's worth considering, I think, for an extra layer of protection from being "snooped upon" eh ?

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    UK Avalon Member Clear Light's Avatar
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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    Quote Posted by Mike Gorman (here)
    It is ironic that people become so anxious about privacy when it comes to digital media, because this is a new paradigm of communication, exposure and transparency is actually a big part of all digital media.
    What is it you wish to conceal, your identity, your opinions? The government in all western countries is able to keep track of you, simply through being a citizen, you have to register your identity in order to drive a car,
    to obtain a mortgage, to receive state benefits, in fact just to exist in a city/town/village.
    This also intrigues me, why do people insist on using anonymous accounts, 'baggypants238', your location and identity is completely known!
    The TOR, 'Onion' browser was actually developed in the United States Naval research lab; so it is well known by those you wish to conceal your activities from.
    Personally, and of course this is my opinion after working in the Information Technology industry since 1996, I don't bother about privacy because everything you do online is completely traceable, and open to anyone who wishes to look.
    I use my real name, and stand by what I produce online, I think you have to understand that digital media is a totally different communications model.
    Hmmm, perhaps this Guardian article will help to illuminate what is going on behind the scenes for you with regards to all of us being tracked in Detail, but I'd say when it comes to predicting our Behaviour and putting their "preferred products" directly before our Eyes (and thereby attempting to Capture, as I see it, the most valuable of Digital Commodities : Your Conscious Attention) surely enough is enough already eh ?

    'The goal is to automate us': welcome to the age of surveillance capitalism (Jan 2019)

    Quote The headline story is that it’s not so much about the nature of digital technology as about a new mutant form of capitalism that has found a way to use tech for its purposes. The name Zuboff has given to the new variant is “surveillance capitalism”. It works by providing free services that billions of people cheerfully use, enabling the providers of those services to monitor the behaviour of those users in astonishing detail – often without their explicit consent.
    Quote “Surveillance capitalism,” she writes, “unilaterally claims human experience as free raw material for translation into behavioural data. Although some of these data are applied to service improvement, the rest are declared as a proprietary behavioural surplus, fed into advanced manufacturing processes known as ‘machine intelligence’, and fabricated into prediction products that anticipate what you will do now, soon, and later. Finally, these prediction products are traded in a new kind of marketplace that I call behavioural futures markets. Surveillance capitalists have grown immensely wealthy from these trading operations, for many companies are willing to lay bets on our future behaviour.”
    Last edited by Clear Light; 14th February 2019 at 16:17. Reason: Added second quoted Paragraph & some minor tweaking

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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    I have been using Epic browser, based in India, for about three years and love it. It blocks all trackers, and shows me exactly who or what is trying to track me in a little unobtrusive box on the right side of my desktop screen. They only ask for a small donation if one wishes to support them, and so far I have really loved using it as my default browser. However, if I want to purchase something online, I will use Firefox because online sites that sell things need to use cookies, and I get that is okay when I wish to make a purchase.

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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    Found this exciting article...joy, joy...

    https://pando.com/2014/07/16/tor-spooks/

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    Default Re: VPN and TOR (how to choose and use - or should we)

    Check out Windscribe, a little slow but pretty good.

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