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Thread: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    East.is.where.the.sun.rises.it's.the.sun.rise.
    West.is.where.the.darkness.is.where.the.sun.sets.

    So.the.sun.is.a.traveler.like.a.merchant.on.a.road .on.his.voyage.
    Maybe.he.won't.set.never.reaching.the.West.and.sta y.somewhere.before.the.West.even.in.the.South.

    Thing.is.he.go's.to.the.West.he.dies.it's.where.it .sets(dies)and.becomes.like.I.told.you.an.ANDROID. MECHANICAL>ROBOT.that.only.can.grasp.like.other.ro bots.do.
    Things.that.die.must.get.reborn.so.they.can.live.a gain.but.a.purpose.The.purpose.is.success.since.la st.time.they.failed(going.to.the.western.lands)

    You.can.live.in.any.part.of.the.world.and.still.be .in.the.East.
    Clint.East.Wood.did.it.so.you.can.too.

    So.what.I.tell.you.is.really.symbolic.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Truthseeker013, I am wondering if you have read the books, Gnosis, Study and Commentaries on the Esoteric Tradition of Eastern Orthodoxy, by Boris Mouravieff (all three books available for download – HERE and In the Search of the Miraculous by Ouspensky, also related to the Christian Esoteric Teaching or the “Eastern Gnosis”?
    Last edited by sms; 1st March 2019 at 03:44.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by sms (here)
    Truthseeker013, I am wondering if you have read the books, Gnosis, Study and Commentaries on the Esoteric Tradition of Eastern Orthodoxy, by Boris Mouravieff (all three books available for download – HERE and In the Search of the Miraculous by Ouspensky, also related to the Christian Esoteric Teaching or the “Eastern Gnosis”?
    No, I have not but thanks for the links. I of course would prefer to have conversations with people rather than go off to do more study. I've got more books, movies, audio, etc to study than any human can possibly muster. But alas, I'll give this a peek and see if it goes on the stack of reading some day.

    In looking closer the title does seem spot on!
    Last edited by Truthster013; 1st March 2019 at 05:32.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by Truthster013 (here)
    (...) I of course would prefer to have conversations with people rather than go off to do more study. (...)
    The problem is, if the concept expressed through the Eastern gnosis was true, there would not be much point in the discussions and neither in a further study!? Once one understands it, then the one should just apply it, to the best of his understanding.

    To my understanding, the western gnostics have described the situation in the field (the “problem”) pretty well, however, there was not much said there about what we could do abut it (the “solution”). The eastern gnostics were talking more about the solution.

    I fact, both, the western and the eastern side, agree with that, that this reality is an illusion/maya/stereoma… and today, we can add another term, which is the matrix or the - virtual reality. And, the illusion or the virtual reality can be inhabited only by - virtual entities, which is - us. And, what is virtual, can not be objective, at the same time. However, the eastern gnostics were saying that it was possible to objectify our existence, which would be something akin Pinocchio turning into a real human being?!

    So, according to the eastern gnostics, we as personalities in human bodies are lies, living in an illusion, which is also a lie. Lies living in a lie. Now, they were saying that the lies i.e. us, still had a possibility to become the Truth by reaching the True Consciousness, which is not this one, we are currently using for our discussions and studying. While discussing things or studying them, we as false entities are using the false consciousness in the false reality, and by using it, it would be pretty questionable, how far we can get?! Within the false consciousness, it would be much easier to reach enlightenment as a goal of the matrix-spirituality, then to wake up in gnostic terms, i.e. to reach and manifest the True Consciousness. (Also known as ‘christ’, but not Jesus; if your name was Ben, and you somehow were able to reach the ‘christ’ and express it, some people could call you Ben Christ, however, most of details about you will be distorted to confuse the others, so that they could not do the same, and so, jeopardize the integrity of the illusion!?)

    Anyway, according to the eastern gnosis, the ‘christ’ would be the only true saviour (but not Jesus) and it was postulated there that all those of us, who still have retained a human essence or the Real I, in ourselves, would still be able to reach the ‘christ’, at least, theoretically. As they understood pretty well many aspects of this illusion, they constructed a (illusory) structure inside it, which they called “The Way”, for the purpose of helping those who are interested, to get out of the… illusion, or to wake up and to start leaving consciously.



    As we can see, the Way expressed by the above picture (borrowed from Mouravieff’s book Gnosis I), looks pretty solid, as everything else in the illusion. The only problem is that for the one to approach it, to find it, to step on it and to make a progress along it, the only condition would be an ability to recognise, so called, “B-influences” which are coming from the True reality and to act upon them. So, at the end, we would have here another mistery, i.e. how it would be possible, at all, that something True could be present in the illusion?! As we could only use the false consciousness here, maybe better not to think about an answer to the question?!

    But, having the above on (false) mind, one may gain some understanding why Eckhart Tolle (as a non-gnostic source), has defined awakening as a “process of separation between thinking and awareness” (in the book: New Earth).
    Last edited by sms; 1st March 2019 at 08:04.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    SMS
    I think your posts are on the mark.
    My feeling is that one has to apply one self and search and search for more knowledge till it is realized that the search is contra productive.
    The current mystics are inclined to point to the Truth and say how to get there--mainly be still be quiet.
    The thing is they also say they did not cause enlightenment--it was a spontaneous awakening.
    Eckhart Tolle a classic--no knowledge, no search. Straight from suicidal depression to the peace that passes all understanding.
    Chris
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    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by Truthster013 (here)
    If we remembered that we are all the same thing we would lose sense of 'self' and become "one" again.
    Hi Truthster013,
    we do not lose our Self,
    you might be interested in ACIM I feel it explains some Gnostic and Biblical concepts.
    It teaches we are an eternal perfect idea in the mind of God.
    In the Oneness it is the ego idea that is gone, but what we are remains forever.
    You dwell not here, but in eternity. You travel but in dreams, while safe at home. ~ACIM

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    EmEx.you.do.loose.your.self.by.selling.out.for.kno wlege.in.the.process.of.gnostic.fiery.alchemy.
    The.self.can.provide.information.in.other.ways.

    Gnosis.or.the.Gnostic.teachings.are.all.about.how. to.gain.knowlege.Gnosis.means.knowlege.

    It's.obvious.that.Gnostics.come.from.the.templal.n ights.
    If.you.look.in.the.ancient.world.there.is.no.menti on.of.the.Gnostic.religion.

    When.the.templars.came.back.they.came.with.knowleg e.not.on.things.but.on.how.to.obtain.things.
    Templars.found.the.Head.of.the.Goat.Baphomet(Sophi a)
    The.head.told.them.how.to.practice.alchemy.

    In.reality.this.is.just.a.story.to.fool.the.childr en.In.a.temple.some.say.it.was.the.temple.of.Solom on.they.found.secret.teachings.on.how.to.do.Alchem y.to.gain.knowlege.
    The.gnostic.religion.did.not.exist.they.made.it.up .and.called.it.Gnosis.
    They.took.the.manuscriptis.that.had.details.on.how .Alchemical.processes.work.inside.the.human.body.a nd.in.the.brain.and.maid.their.own.version.called. Gnosticism

    Have.you.wonder.why.Aeon.Sophia.is.no.were.to.be.f ound.in.any.ancient.cultures.like.Egypt.Babylon.Is rael.Far.east.China.all.the.ancient.world.has.no.m ention.of.this.SOPHIA.GODESS.
    In.reality.she.is.the.Mother.GOAT.and.her.son.is.B APHOMET.the.Goat.(the.adopted.son,you.the.practici oner.that.practices.gnostic.teachings)


    The.trick.is.for.you.to.become.a.Baphomet.then.you .become."THE>SCAPE>GOAT"and.they.can.sacrifice.you .and.obtain.knowlege.out.of.your.burning.soul.

    Baphomet.is.pictured.as.a.burning.furnance.the.bur ning.goat.
    He.is.also.Tatoed.and.hairy.he.is.the.Dirty.Goat.o f.the.Temple.of.Sacrifice.The.TEMPLAR.GOAT.



    The.gnostic.practice.is.a.lie.it.will.lead.to.term ination.of.your.self.your.soul.your.being.

    Edit:
    I.forgot.to.add.he.has.tits.he.is.half.female.beca use.his.mother.is.inside.of.him(Sophia)

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Where.is.the.Gnostic.practice.in.the.ancient.world ,and.Sophia.where.is.she.

    If.they.existed.is.Sophia.existed.then.she.should. be.in.the.Ancient.world.culture.but.she.is.not.

    Where.is.she?

    You.see.she.is.not.she.is.made.up.by.the.templars. and.this.religion.to.cover.the.truth.

    It's.a.bull****.story.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Who.invented.the.Gnostic.Religion.

    Okay.Jesus.invented.Christianity
    The.Jews.invented.Judaism
    Egyptians.invented.the.Egyptian.religion
    Babylonians.invented.the.Talmud.

    Now...
    Why.invented.Gnosticism.
    Can.anyone.tell.me.what.culture....
    I.think.we.can.be.sure.it's.a.western.culture.of.s ecret.order.since.it.does.not.appear.in.the.Ancien t.Religions.of.the.World.

    We.can.be.sure.it.is.invented.after.the.Collapse.o f.the.Roman.Empire.
    It's.the.Templars.who.invented.it.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    sms, thank you!!! That was an amazing write up and you are nearly exactly the type of person I'm looking to chat with. I am reading this before going to work so don't have time quite yet to digest it and get into it further but if you would have time to discuss with me further I would REALLY be interested in starting a private dialogue with you. I know you basically said "what's the point" of talking about it but I really would enjoy talking about it with you.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by EmEx (here)
    ....we are an eternal perfect idea in the mind of God.
    In the Oneness it is the ego idea that is gone, but what we are remains forever.
    The wording you are using above is difficult for me currently. I no longer personally resonate with phrases like "eternal perfect idea" which seems to suggest that "god" (which I think is a really misunderstood word) had this "perfect" idea and we just screwed it up. That logic seems wholy flawed to me and thus attributing to "god" that there is a "perfect" plan is alien to me. I am more inclined to believe that the source has no morality, good or bad, and that all things emanate from it. Western philosophy believes a perfect God created an imperfect creation but laid out a perfect plan of redemption. Eastern philosophy as I see it basically says all things like good and evil are purely subjective. There is no good or evil, there just IS. There is no perfect and imperfect, there just IS. At the moment that's more where I see things. Maybe your words didn't even mean all this fluff I'm adding and for that I'm sorry.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by sparrow7 (here)
    Where.is.the.Gnostic.practice.in.the.ancient.world ,and.Sophia.where.is.she.

    If.they.existed.is.Sophia.existed.then.she.should. be.in.the.Ancient.world.culture.but.she.is.not.

    Where.is.she?

    You.see.she.is.not.she.is.made.up.by.the.templars. and.this.religion.to.cover.the.truth.

    It's.a.bull****.story.
    Sparrow, I have a real but real bad time reading you with those dots between each word.

    I am not English speaking, and to me when words are tied together in whichever way, I cannot make sense of what is what anymore.
    Plus sometimes you have dots and dots - starting a new phrase, i do not know where it starts and ends up.

    I will refer you to the grammar thread, but please help me not to make this reading so tough. Please, write in a regular manner.

    Unless you are dictating and the algorithm places the dots. In this case could it be programmed to put spacing instead? And sometimes there is spacing in the middle of a word, like sta y - I cannot follow.
    Last edited by Flash; 1st March 2019 at 14:19.
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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    This is absolutely unacceptable punctuation.
    L eT ' S a.l.l. do. Thi.s. a.nd. s.ee. h.ow. lon.g people k.ee.p com.ing.here. to R.ea.d thin.g.s
    Rediculous. But I guess that's the point right. Your different and cool
    Why Not?

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by sparrow7 (here)
    Quote Posted by Truthster013 (here)
    Thanks for the response sparrow7. I'm not sure why all the periods instead of spaces in your post. Makes it a little rough to read...

    My.space.is.not.working.I.could.still.use.the.on.s creen.keyboard.to.add.space.
    Laptop.keyboards.don't.last.long.
    My.new.keyboard.will.come.soon

    He has a good explanation for this use of periods, hopefully his new keyboard will arrive soon.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    This is absolutely unacceptable punctuation.
    L eT ' S a.l.l. do. Thi.s. a.nd. s.ee. h.ow. lon.g people k.ee.p com.ing.here. to R.ea.d thin.g.s
    Rediculous. But I guess that's the point right. Your different and cool
    I think sparrow indicated his space bar was broken on his phone or tablet or whatever and that's why he has to use periods. But like you, I find it really difficult to follow with that type of punctuation. Add to that spaces in the middle of words and sometimes broken or fragmentary thoughts I have to go back and read and reread and try and think about it several ways to see if maybe I'm reading it wrong and then I concluded I can't continue to have a discourse with this format because I'll lose my mind the first time I respond to something at length and find out I simply didn't understand the original point because a period was in the wrong place or a space in the wrong place misled me to think the poster meant one thing when he meant another.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    A possible temporary solution would be for sparrow7 to first type posts with a word processor which has a "Find and Replace" feature and replace all the dots with a blank space lifted/copied from screen keyboard, proof read the text to add normal punctuation and only then post the text in the thread... which is also a way to edit already posted material to make them more digestible...
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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    The good explanation would be not having to explain and patiently editing each post or waiting until new keyboard arrives.
    Why Not?

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Here's a main difference: Gnosticism was a pile of dust until revived by G. R. S. Mead around 1900. Eastern traditions are unbroken since prehistoric times.

    I am not sure what to say about Gnosticism being Christian in any way. It could be Ophite or Sethian or something like that. It exists in two continuous, closed societies, the Druze and the Mandeans. This last name means "Gnostic" in their own Syrian dialect and they are definitely not Christian and certainly not Jewish. Those are the real authorities, and you can't get much from them, and you definitely can't join them.

    The Western system as a whole is a cheap copy of the Eastern one, and here, west means degraded Zoroastrianism and Manicheanism which spread west from across Persia. The Eastern system is basically the sister of the original Zoroastrianism, as were the Greek and Norse pagans, etc. Because it is still intact, I can use it to explain, for instance, the strongly related inner meanings of historical mysteries at the Ellora caves, the forbidden city of Peiping, China, and the ruins of Borodpur, Java, through the trans-Himalayan communities that still stand, and even the roof of an ordinary house in Lithuania.

    That is why it seems to me the Eastern is the complete, original system, whereas most everything in the West can be shown to be incomplete, diluted, and tweaked, and comparatively of little value, except for the sort of historical curiosity of patching the fragments.

    That being said, the way I do it has an astounding superficial resemblance to Catholicism. Not the same under the hood.

    I believe that at least since the time of Asoka sending Buddhist missionaries as far as Greece and possibly Ireland, there have been somewhat perpetual attempts to pack Eastern influence into a Western or Christian garb, and this continued through well known figures such as Eliphas Levi and Grand Master Pinto. But it's not being done that way any more. It's openly Eastern. We are all over Europe and the U. S. Just look.

    If anyone is worried about the devil, we can't really use you. This is a call for Lions.

    I am sure it is possible to use the Kabbala to derive some benefit, but I don't think it compares to the Eastern system which I would broadly call Raja Yoga, including all Indian Aryan (Samkhya, Vedic, Vedantic) lines and Buddhist (Zen, etc.). These still of course have philosophical differences, but all remain complete and effective ways of practice. It's not a religion. May seem that way and be forced to use some of the same language, but it's not.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Thank you for your thoughtful response. I think the below indicates that people aren't really understanding what I'm after and that's not your fault it's mine. However, using your response to me permits me to clarify what I'm after a little and the more we can clarify perhaps the closer I can get to conveying what I'm looking for. Again, this is NO attack on you when I respond. I acknowledge the fault is on my part for not making clear what I'm looking for. I'm only using some quotes below to clarify MY misunderstood position a little better:

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Here's a main difference: Gnosticism was a pile of dust until revived by G. R. S. Mead around 1900. Eastern traditions are unbroken since prehistoric times.
    Several people have commented by trying to explain where Gnosticism came from, who invited it, and/or whether it's Christian or not. I need to clarify that I do not care really about any of that per se. I'm not interested in the history of Gnosticsm or who invited it. For the most part I can care less. Rather I'm looking for a philosophical discussion about the nature of reality and perhaps using Gnostic, Christian and eastern philosophy as a possible way to have that discussion. The focus is on the question "what are we and what is enlightenment" and possibly using Gnostic and Eastern philosophy as some common language base because I am familiar with it and find that it comes close to explaining it how I'm currently seeing it.

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    It exists in two continuous, closed societies....they are definitely not Christian and certainly not Jewish. Those are the real authorities, and you can't get much from them, and you definitely can't join them.
    I also want to be clear that I'm not looking to join anything or to find the original "masters" or "teachers" of any school of thought and go be taught by them. I'm long done with letting someone set themselves up as my teacher and me their student. I'm not interested in a formal education, rather in sharing ideas with others and learning from each other.


    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    That is why it seems to me the Eastern is the complete, original system, whereas most everything in the West can be shown to be incomplete, diluted, and tweaked, and comparatively of little value, except for the sort of historical curiosity of patching the fragments.
    Please do not take offense but for me stating eastern is a "complete original system" and then knocking the west as "incomplete,diluted,and of little value" suggest to me that you are maybe a little closed off. Maybe I'm totally wrong because I don't know you personally so again, do not take offense. But anytime one labels one thing as truth and another as false, it suggest to me a closed loop. Certainly there is something of value in western thought especially if your target audience grew up in western thought.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by Truthster013 (here)
    Quote Posted by EmEx (here)
    ....we are an eternal perfect idea in the mind of God.
    In the Oneness it is the ego idea that is gone, but what we are remains forever.
    The wording you are using above is difficult for me currently. I no longer personally resonate with phrases like "eternal perfect idea" which seems to suggest that "god" (which I think is a really misunderstood word) had this "perfect" idea and we just screwed it up. That logic seems wholy flawed to me and thus attributing to "god" that there is a "perfect" plan is alien to me. I am more inclined to believe that the source has no morality, good or bad, and that all things emanate from it. Western philosophy believes a perfect God created an imperfect creation but laid out a perfect plan of redemption. Eastern philosophy as I see it basically says all things like good and evil are purely subjective. There is no good or evil, there just IS. There is no perfect and imperfect, there just IS. At the moment that's more where I see things. Maybe your words didn't even mean all this fluff I'm adding and for that I'm sorry.
    Truthster, the Course teaches that we cannot change what we are, because that has been established by God, this illusion however is the dream or concept that we can do so.

    Since there is only God or Source morality has no basis in Reality.
    You dwell not here, but in eternity. You travel but in dreams, while safe at home. ~ACIM

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