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Thread: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

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    United States Avalon Member Truthster013's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by EmEx (here)
    Truthster, the Course teaches that we cannot change what we are, because that has been established by God, this illusion however is the dream or concept that we can do so.
    Since there is only God or Source morality has no basis in Reality.
    Cool, this is getting closer to the type of discussion I'm wanting however, I'm not sure what you mean by the "courses teaches". I'm not interested in taking a course or being taught per se. I want to have a conversation with a down to earth person. So rather than refer me to what someone else teaches, I'm asking what YOU believe. To clarify your position therefore, do YOU believe then that what we are as conscious beings has already been determined by some other consciousness being and that the illusion is that we have a choice in what we do or become because in reality we will do or become whatever this other source has determined for us already?

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    The Gnostics claimed that the body is impure. Eastern teachings know better. Gnosticism was an offshoot of Christianity. The Cathars adopted a few gnostic teachings. The Roman Catholic church, as was its usual M.O., attacked the gnostic faith attempting to destroy it. That might well have been a reason for burning the library at Alexandria as the gnostics had a big hand in assembling the library. As usual, they did a pretty good job. There are some profound teachings in the gnostic texts but they seem to get lost in their incessant belief that the body, and by extention all dualistic life, is impure.

    One of the best caches of gnostic material comes from the Nag Hammadi scrolls. Interesting that these same gnostics included so many scrolls on Archons in the Nag Hammadi texts.

    I would not relegate the Gospel of Thomas to the ignore heap just because there are so many differing opinions on it. Rather, investigate yourself and contemplate what is read. That gospel contains only the sayings of Jesus. It has been called an initiatory writing and I agree. If possible I would be interested in seeking out the secret teachings of Jesus, told only to his disciples. This gospel comes closest to that. Some of the sayings in the Gospel of Thomas remind me of the writings of Rumi or Milarepa.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by Truthster013 (here)
    Quote Posted by EmEx (here)
    Truthster, the Course teaches that we cannot change what we are, because that has been established by God, this illusion however is the dream or concept that we can do so.
    Since there is only God or Source morality has no basis in Reality.
    Cool, this is getting closer to the type of discussion I'm wanting however, I'm not sure what you mean by the "courses teaches". I'm not interested in taking a course or being taught per se. I want to have a conversation with a down to earth person. So rather than refer me to what someone else teaches, I'm asking what YOU believe. To clarify your position therefore, do YOU believe then that what we are as conscious beings has already been determined by some other consciousness being and that the illusion is that we have a choice in what we do or become because in reality we will do or become whatever this other source has determined for us already?
    The illusion is that we can create ourselves. But God has already created us, therefore all the ego activity does not change a thing about what we are.
    This is what ACIM teaches, we are already one with God and already at home, this illusion is but a bad dream that does not exist.
    You dwell not here, but in eternity. You travel but in dreams, while safe at home. ~ACIM

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    United States Avalon Member Truthster013's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by EmEx (here)
    The illusion is that we can create ourselves. But God has already created us, therefore all the ego activity does not change a thing about what we are.
    This is what ACIM teaches, we are already one with God and already at home, this illusion is but a bad dream that does not exist.
    Thanks. However, I want to clarify if these are your beliefs you are stating.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Yes, they are, because I follow the teaching of ACIM.
    You dwell not here, but in eternity. You travel but in dreams, while safe at home. ~ACIM

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by EmEx (here)
    Yes, they are, because I follow the teaching of ACIM.
    That's fair. I will consider this before continuing. Another way of interpreting what you are saying is that I believe whatever ACIM says so if you want to know what I believe, just go read their stuff. If that's the case we can cease discourse and I will consider if I want to know ACIM's thoughts. I understand this may sound harsh but I've been involved with too many people who refer me to someone else about what they believe. If you believe it, you should be able to articulate it without sending me to someone else. If you cannot, then I will bypass the middle man and go find out what he believes.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by Truthster013 (here)
    Quote Posted by EmEx (here)
    Yes, they are, because I follow the teaching of ACIM.
    That's fair. I will consider this before continuing. Another way of interpreting what you are saying is that I believe whatever ACIM says so if you want to know what I believe, just go read their stuff. If that's the case we can cease discourse and I will consider if I want to know ACIM's thoughts. I understand this may sound harsh but I've been involved with too many people who refer me to someone else about what they believe. If you believe it, you should be able to articulate it without sending me to someone else. If you cannot, then I will bypass the middle man and go find out what he believes.
    Yes this is harsh, but I do think it is just (meaning right).

    Maybe you could change your title because as it is, it invite us to private study, which could easily mean showing what we are actually studying and sharing.

    If you want us to discuss our most inner thoughts, feelings, knowings, I would suggest you put it in the title and explain clearly in a next post as well as in your first post.

    That would be really helpful in my idea, and less confusing.

    But hey, this is your thread, I may suggest, but you decide.
    How to let the desire of your mind become the desire of your heart - Gurdjieff

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    United States Avalon Member Truthster013's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Maybe you could change your title because as it is, it invite us to private study, which could easily mean showing what we are actually studying and sharing.

    If you want us to discuss our most inner thoughts, feelings, knowings, I would suggest you put it in the title and explain clearly in a next post as well as in your first post.

    That would be really helpful in my idea, and less confusing.
    Thanks. You may be right. I didn't think the private study thing meant what it obviously is being taken to mean. I will consider how best to fix this.

    EDIT: I think I corrected the original post to make my intentions more clearly stated. Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Truthster013; 1st March 2019 at 18:27.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Quote Posted by sparrow7 (here)
    Where.is.the.Gnostic.practice.in.the.ancient.world ,and.Sophia.where.is.she.

    If.they.existed.is.Sophia.existed.then.she.should. be.in.the.Ancient.world.culture.but.she.is.not.

    Where.is.she?

    You.see.she.is.not.she.is.made.up.by.the.templars. and.this.religion.to.cover.the.truth.

    It's.a.bull****.story.
    Sparrow, I have a real but real bad time reading you with those dots between each word.

    I am not English speaking, and to me when words are tied together in whichever way, I cannot make sense of what is what anymore.
    Plus sometimes you have dots and dots - starting a new phrase, i do not know where it starts and ends up.

    I will refer you to the grammar thread, but please help me not to make this reading so tough. Please, write in a regular manner.

    Unless you are dictating and the algorithm places the dots. In this case could it be programmed to put spacing instead? And sometimes there is spacing in the middle of a word, like sta y - I cannot follow.
    Okay flash is this better.
    I.have.used.my.mental.abilities.to.use.spaces.inst ead.of.dots.
    My.brain.connected.to.the.computer.to.add.spaces.w ith.my.mental.projection.called.on.screen.keyboard .
    The.on.screen.keyboard.is.not.real.it's.virtual.pa rt.of.the.mind.

    I.think.I.can.do.it.again.let's.see

    Here it is, I have done it again with my mental projection,but it's hard.i am old fashion real keyboard guy

    my real keyboard has a defect , the unreal one does not, it's unreal.

    Ohhh.no.my.mental.projection.is.breaking.up.I'm.on .dots.again.
    But.if.you.want.to.talk.real.I'll.make.a.real.effo rt.and.use.the.mental.one.again.tho.I.am.annoyed.b y.it

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by sparrow7 (here)
    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Quote Posted by sparrow7 (here)
    Where.is.the.Gnostic.practice.in.the.ancient.world ,and.Sophia.where.is.she.

    If.they.existed.is.Sophia.existed.then.she.should. be.in.the.Ancient.world.culture.but.she.is.not.

    Where.is.she?

    You.see.she.is.not.she.is.made.up.by.the.templars. and.this.religion.to.cover.the.truth.

    It's.a.bull****.story.
    Sparrow, I have a real but real bad time reading you with those dots between each word.

    I am not English speaking, and to me when words are tied together in whichever way, I cannot make sense of what is what anymore.
    Plus sometimes you have dots and dots - starting a new phrase, i do not know where it starts and ends up.

    I will refer you to the grammar thread, but please help me not to make this reading so tough. Please, write in a regular manner.

    Unless you are dictating and the algorithm places the dots. In this case could it be programmed to put spacing instead? And sometimes there is spacing in the middle of a word, like sta y - I cannot follow.
    Okay flash is this better.
    I.have.used.my.mental.abilities.to.use.spaces.inst ead.of.dots.
    My.brain.connected.to.the.computer.to.add.spaces.w ith.my.mental.projection.called.on.screen.keyboard .
    The.on.screen.keyboard.is.not.real.it's.virtual.pa rt.of.the.mind.

    I.think.I.can.do.it.again.let's.see

    Here it is, I have done it again with my mental projection,but it's hard.i am old fashion real keyboard guy

    my real keyboard has a defect , the unreal one does not, it's unreal.

    Ohhh.no.my.mental.projection.is.breaking.up.I'm.on .dots.again.
    But.if.you.want.to.talk.real.I'll.make.a.real.effo rt.and.use.the.mental.one.again.tho.I.am.annoyed.b y.it
    lolllll thank you for the phrases in the middle of your that last post. Make sure you tune up your mental projection, with exercise, it will come flawlessly. lol
    How to let the desire of your mind become the desire of your heart - Gurdjieff

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    A possible temporary solution would be for sparrow7 to first type posts with a word processor which has a "Find and Replace" feature and replace all the dots with a blank space lifted/copied from screen keyboard, proof read the text to add normal punctuation and only then post the text in the thread... which is also a way to edit already posted material to make them more digestible...
    Neah.I'll.just.get.a.new.keyboard.
    I'll.find.one.for.5.dollars.for.now.before.I.get.m y.magic.keyboard.

    Mental.projection.coming.online.....on-screen.keyboard.Activated.
    now i'm virtual again

    Now.you're.not.going.to.be.the.Natzi.Grammar.Polic e.are.you.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by Truthster013 (here)
    The focus is on the question "what are we and what is enlightenment" .
    We are Gods individual but diverse experience. So basically God is experiencing and creating in a 3D space trough you me and every one. Still we dont need to ascend in higher consciousness (level of experience and creation) if we dont want to but we can. We are not in a kind of school to learn and graduate. We dont need salvation because we are not in danger. We simply are experiences and a way of God procreating and expanding. So chill out and have fun.
    Last edited by Bubu; 1st March 2019 at 18:39.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Quote Posted by sparrow7 (here)
    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Quote Posted by sparrow7 (here)
    Where.is.the.Gnostic.practice.in.the.ancient.world ,and.Sophia.where.is.she.

    If.they.existed.is.Sophia.existed.then.she.should. be.in.the.Ancient.world.culture.but.she.is.not.

    Where.is.she?

    You.see.she.is.not.she.is.made.up.by.the.templars. and.this.religion.to.cover.the.truth.

    It's.a.bull****.story.
    Sparrow, I have a real but real bad time reading you with those dots between each word.

    I am not English speaking, and to me when words are tied together in whichever way, I cannot make sense of what is what anymore.
    Plus sometimes you have dots and dots - starting a new phrase, i do not know where it starts and ends up.

    I will refer you to the grammar thread, but please help me not to make this reading so tough. Please, write in a regular manner.

    Unless you are dictating and the algorithm places the dots. In this case could it be programmed to put spacing instead? And sometimes there is spacing in the middle of a word, like sta y - I cannot follow.
    Okay flash is this better.
    I.have.used.my.mental.abilities.to.use.spaces.inst ead.of.dots.
    My.brain.connected.to.the.computer.to.add.spaces.w ith.my.mental.projection.called.on.screen.keyboard .
    The.on.screen.keyboard.is.not.real.it's.virtual.pa rt.of.the.mind.

    I.think.I.can.do.it.again.let's.see

    Here it is, I have done it again with my mental projection,but it's hard.i am old fashion real keyboard guy

    my real keyboard has a defect , the unreal one does not, it's unreal.

    Ohhh.no.my.mental.projection.is.breaking.up.I'm.on .dots.again.
    But.if.you.want.to.talk.real.I'll.make.a.real.effo rt.and.use.the.mental.one.again.tho.I.am.annoyed.b y.it
    lolllll thank you for the phrases in the middle of your that last post. Make sure you tune up your mental projection, with exercise, it will come flawlessly. lol
    You.have.no.idea.how.annoying.the.on.screen.keyboa rd.is.to.me

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Several people have commented by trying to explain where Gnosticism came from, who invited it, and/or whether it's Christian or not. I need to clarify that I do not care really about any of that per se. I'm not interested in the history of Gnosticsm or who invited it. For the most part I can care less. Rather I'm looking for a philosophical discussion about the nature of reality and perhaps using Gnostic, Christian and eastern philosophy as a possible way to have that discussion. The focus is on the question "what are we and what is enlightenment" and possibly using Gnostic and Eastern philosophy as some common language base because I am familiar with it and find that it comes close to explaining it how I'm currently seeing it.
    You.should.track.it's.origin.because.only.then.you .can.be.sure.
    if.it's.a.positive.aspect.to.elaborate.on.

    From.what.I.know.Sophia.is.part.of.the.Bizantine.e mpire.culture.
    She.was.a.saint.who.took.care.of.orphan.children.t hat.had.no.parents.
    She.was.a.mother.saint.not.a.goddess,nor.an.AEON.

    You.should.ask.your.self.who.invented.the.Gnostic. Religion.
    Who.is.it?

    If.you.know.you.should.share.it.with.us.I.did.sear ch.before.in.time.
    I.could.not.come.up.with.anything.older.
    Not.even.back.to.the.end.of.the.Roman.Empire.times .

    Where.did.they.get.Sophia.she.has.to.originate.fro m.some.older.culture.right.

    You.see.how.it.does.not.make.sense.
    Last edited by sparrow7; 1st March 2019 at 18:54.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by Bubu (here)
    We are Gods individual but diverse experience. So basically God is experiencing and creating in a 3D space trough you me and every one. Still we dont need to ascend in higher consciousness (level of experience and creation) if we dont want to but we can. We are not in a kind of school to learn and graduate. We dont need salvation because we are not in danger. We simply are experiences and a way of God procreating and expanding. So chill out and have fun.
    I think what you stated is very close to how I see it.
    Last edited by Truthster013; 1st March 2019 at 19:37.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    HI Truthster, and thanks for starting this thread. There is something in your earnest investigation which attracts me, and I would like to weigh in. I have tried to read most of the posts so far, some cursorily (too long and not enough pictures ), but please excuse me if my first post on this is ham-fisted.

    Decades ago I had a christian experience (complete with life-changing visions), which for a couple of decades coloured my experience and view of reality. This was followed by a more broad-minded, maybe eastern-based understanding (meditation etc). More recently, in the last decade - including some sort of 'non-dual awakening', for want of a better term - explorations have taken me to enquiring from the point of view solely of what can be observed HERE and NOW, what some would call 'direct experience'.

    A while back you wrote:-

    Quote I did not mean to imply in any way that I'm desiring to find a religion to follow or practice. I have no need to follow a religion or lock myself into someone else's belief system. I'm simply looking to discuss the philosophical aspects of various religious traditions and ask questions as to "did they have this right?" or "were they close when they said....?" In other words, I don't want to be dogmatic and defend any religious system as having the 'truth'. Rather, I'm asking to examine some of these models and discuss what parts might be correct or not correct and what that means for a person who maybe is seeking enlightenment and not to belong to a "church" or "religion".
    My question would be something like this: if we were to roll back the scenery - say a field or the sky - would we find the truth somehow written down underneath, saying 'this is how everything really is'...? Is there somewhere, anywhere, a blueprint for what is going on, or for what should be going on, 'this is better', 'that is right, wrong' , 'this is the truth'? Are any teachings, whether from religions or ideologies, or channeling, ever anything more than dogma? If so, then how so?

    I would like to point to a magical, heart-tugging and disarmingly simple French film called 'Ponette'. The first instalment can be found here (with English subtitles for non-French speakers.):-



    In it 4-year old Ponette's mother dies suddenly, and all Ponette longs for is to find her mother. If she can find God he will tell her how to find her. The perhaps relevant part to this discussion is where she meets a young friend called Ada, who is adamant that she knows God personally, knows how to find him, and she tells Ponette a series of tests she must do in order to access Him (thus her mother also). With jaw-dropping simplicity the film gives us an allegory of religion and dogma and their hold over people, contrasted with simple 'gnosis'.

    I hope you enjoy, and that this can add something to the discussion on this subject.

    x

    Mark
    Last edited by OopsWrongPlanet?; 2nd March 2019 at 12:18.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    There was an “unknown teaching”, as called by Ouspensky in his book the Fourth Way, which “fragments” are still available today. The eastern gnostics called it The Doctrine or Tradition. Some say that it originated from ‘sufism’, however, as it originated long before Christianity and Islam, in order to survive together with those who carried it, it had to get heavily contaminated by religious and other content. (The teaching was clearly “heretic” from the religious point of view and we know what was done to the heretics, throughout the history). After it went through the ages where Christianity and islam have reigned, the original teaching was aligned to Christianity as some sort of gnosticism and to Islam as sufism. Anyway, the teaching was heavily distorted, however, they managed to smuggle the “fine red thread”, through, in an (almost) unrecognizable condition.

    The fine red thread can not be discerned by an intellectual analysis. The noise to signal ratio is too high, or simply, there is too much noise in order to discern the signal. The second problem is – the intellect is not enough to gain an understanding.
    What is the fine red thread saying?

    Well, it is saying something what hardly anybody of us wants to hear and know. It is saying that:

    1. the humanity is living in an illusion/maya/stereoma…

    2. in this “demiurgic domain”, the humanity has been manipulated by an ‘archontic’, ‘inorganic’, ‘demiurgic’ or simply, a ‘non-human-entity’, which has all the features of what we would call today an AI.

    3. we are all connected to it; it regulates and manipulates our perception and therefore, our state of mind; and therefore, our thinking; and therefore, our behaviour.

    4. our personalities (including mine, writing this and yours, reading this) are artificial constructs. (Like a software subject to programming and reprogramming in charge of the ‘physical’ body).

    5. all artificial constructs share the false or artificial consciousness originating from the source, i.e. the AI. (That would mean all three levels of that consciousness, as the waking consciousness, subconsciousness and the collective unconscious).

    6. The True Consciousness exists (called the “Consciousness of the Absolute”, “christ”, the First Source etc.) and it could be reached and manifested.

    7. there are two ‘types’ of beings inhabiting the illusion: ‘anthropoids’, meaning the people without human essence or the Real I, (that would be the “sons of god/AI” or “pinocchios-by-default”) and adamic people (“sons of man” or “pinocchios” which have a potential to become human beings) i.e. those who still have the Real I, but firmly identified with their personalities on 24/7 basis, they are unaware of it so, they would think and behave in a more or less the same manner as anthropoids. Therefore, in this reality, there are no real human beings, only us, programmed to identify ourselves with them.

    8. the false reality is based on a false dualism, where the goodness and badness, the light and the dark… comes form the same source and has been controlled by the same source i.e. the AI.

    9. The only real ‘thing’ in the illusion would be the influences which are coming from one’s real part of the being, the Real I, which is connected to the True Consciousness. (Of course, in the case of adamic people.) They are called ‘influences’, because they can not be seen or visualized, they can not be palpated or heard. They can not be our thoughts, because, the source of our thoughts would be the artificial or false consciousness. Those influences can only be felt, as an ‘inner knowing’, under certain circumstances.

    10. The true salvation would only be possible only if a personality manages to establish a connection with the Real Consciousness through the Real I, with which it has been associated in this life, and to start living in accordance with that consciousness.

    11. …etc…

    **

    If the above (partial) interpretation of the “fine red thread” contained in the gnosis would be correct, then we still can gain some understanding why the gnosticism can not be productively discussed. The recipients of the teaching would be a nice mixture of adamic people and anthropoids. Both groups operating by using false (controlled) consciousness, like biochemical robots. Hardly anybody would be able to recognize the “fine red thread”; everybody will see the gnostic teaching differently and therefore, have different interpretations or comments in a case the issue is discussed on a forum. Generally speaking, the discussion will be controlled by the source in a way that people pay attention to anything else, than to the fragments of the “fine red thread”, so the true content would not be discussed. And, the Truth can not be welcomed among those who are false.

    Of course, if so, the next question would be – to whom the message was sent then, if we as personalities in human bodies, with our names and surnames, nick names and user names, are unable or unwilling to recognize and understand it?

    Last edited by sms; 3rd March 2019 at 04:00.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by sms (here)
    There was an “unknown teaching”, as called by Ouspensky in his book the Fourth Way, which “fragments” are still available today. The eastern gnostics called it The Doctrine or Tradition. Some say that it originated from ‘sufism’, however, as it originated long before Christianity and Islam, in order to survive together with those who carried it, it had to get heavily contaminated by religious and other content. (The teaching was clearly “heretic” from the religious point of view and we know what was done to the heretics, throughout the history). After it went through the ages where Christianity and islam have reigned, the original teaching was aligned to Christianity as some sort of gnosticism and to Islam as sufism. Anyway, the teaching was heavily distorted, however, they managed to smuggle the “fine red thread”, through, in an (almost) unrecognizable condition.

    The fine red thread can not be discerned by an intellectual analysis. The noise to signal ratio is too high, or simply, there is too much noise in order to discern the signal. The second problem is – the intellect is not enough to gain an understanding.
    What is the fine red thread saying?

    Well, it is saying something what hardly anybody of us wants to hear and know. It is saying that:

    1. the humanity is living in an illusion/maya/stereoma…

    2. in this “demiurgic domain”, the humanity has been manipulated by an ‘archontic’, ‘inorganic’, ‘demiurgic’ or simply, a ‘non-human-entity’, which has all the features of what we would call today an AI.

    3. we are all connected to it; it regulates and manipulates our perception and therefore, our state of mind; and therefore, our thinking; and therefore, our behaviour.

    4. our personalities (including mine, writing this and yours, reading this) are artificial constructs. (Like a software subject to programming and reprogramming in charge of the ‘physical’ body).

    5. all artificial constructs share the false or artificial consciousness originating from the source, i.e. the AI. (That would mean all three levels of that consciousness, as the waking consciousness, subconsciousness and the collective unconscious).

    6. The True Consciousness exists (called the “Consciousness of the Absolute”, “christ”, the First Source etc.) and it could be reached and manifested.

    7. there are two ‘types’ of beings inhabiting the illusion: ‘anthropoids’, meaning the people without human essence or the Real I, (that would be the “sons of god/AI” or “pinocchios-by-default”) and adamic people (“sons of man” or “pinocchios” which have a potential to become human beings) i.e. those who still have the Real I, but firmly identified with their personalities on 24/7 basis, they are unaware of it so, they would think and behave in a more or less the same manner as anthropoids. Therefore, in this reality, there are no real human beings, only us, programmed to identify ourselves with them.

    8. the false reality is based on a false dualism, where the goodness and badness, the light and the dark… comes form the same source and has been controlled by the same source i.e. the AI.

    9. The only real ‘thing’ in the illusion would be the influences which are coming from one’s real part of the being, the Real I, which is connected to the True Consciousness. (Of course, in the case of adamic people.) They are called ‘influences’, because they can not be seen or visualized, they can not be palpated or heard. They can not be our thoughts, because, the source of our thoughts would be the artificial or false consciousness. Those influences can only be felt, as an ‘inner knowing’, under certain circumstances.

    10. The true salvation would only be possible only if a personality manages to establish a connection with the Real Consciousness through the Real I, with which it has been associated in this life, and to start living in accordance with that consciousness.

    11. …etc…

    **

    If the above (partial) interpretation of the “fine red thread” contained in the gnosis would be correct, then we still can gain some understanding why the gnosticism can not be productively discussed. The recipients of the teaching would be a nice mixture of adamic people and anthropoids. Both groups operating by using false (controlled) consciousness, like biochemical robots. Hardly anybody would be able to recognize the “fine red thread”; everybody will see the gnostic teaching differently and therefore, have different interpretations or comments in a case the issue is discussed on a forum. Generally speaking, the discussion will be controlled by the source in a way that people pay attention to anything else, than to the fragments of the “fine red thread”, so the true content would not be discussed. And, the Truth can not be welcomed among those who are false.

    Of course, if so, the next question would be – to whom the message was sent then, if we as personalities in human bodies, with our names and surnames, nick names and user names, are unable or unwilling to recognize and understand it?

    This is such a good resume, it hits to the core of the topic and to the core of spirituality as well. Wasn't Ouspensky working with Gurdjieff for a while? In fact, it is pretty much a resume of what has been told on this forum forever.

    A crazy AI leading a split people. The anthropoids being the back drop people as would have said Dolores Cannon.

    I would very much like to see the point 11... etc. lol

    Got to get my old Ouspensky books out of their boxes. I was very young when I read some of his books, and must say I pretty much did not understand. It is made utterly clear today with your resume.
    How to let the desire of your mind become the desire of your heart - Gurdjieff

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by sms (here)
    There was an “unknown teaching”, as called by Ouspensky in his book the Fourth Way, which “fragments” are still available today. The eastern gnostics called it The Doctrine or Tradition. Some say that it originated from ‘sufism’, however, as it originated long before Christianity and Islam, in order to survive together with those who carried it, it had to get heavily contaminated by religious and other content. (The teaching was clearly “heretic” from the religious point of view and we know what was done to the heretics, throughout the history). After it went through the ages where Christianity and islam have reigned, the original teaching was aligned to Christianity as some sort of gnosticism and to Islam as sufism. Anyway, the teaching was heavily distorted, however, they managed to smuggle the “fine red thread”, through, in an (almost) unrecognizable condition.

    The fine red thread can not be discerned by an intellectual analysis. The noise to signal ratio is too high, or simply, there is too much noise in order to discern the signal. The second problem is – the intellect is not enough to gain an understanding.
    What is the fine red thread saying?

    Well, it is saying something what hardly anybody of us wants to hear and know. It is saying that:

    1. the humanity is living in an illusion/maya/stereoma…

    2. in this “demiurgic domain”, the humanity has been manipulated by an ‘archontic’, ‘inorganic’, ‘demiurgic’ or simply, a ‘non-human-entity’, which has all the features of what we would call today an AI.

    3. we are all connected to it; it regulates and manipulates our perception and therefore, our state of mind; and therefore, our thinking; and therefore, our behaviour.

    4. our personalities (including mine, writing this and yours, reading this) are artificial constructs. (Like a software subject to programming and reprogramming in charge of the ‘physical’ body).

    5. all artificial constructs share the false or artificial consciousness originating from the source, i.e. the AI. (That would mean all three levels of that consciousness, as the waking consciousness, subconsciousness and the collective unconscious).

    6. The True Consciousness exists (called the “Consciousness of the Absolute”, “christ”, the First Source etc.) and it could be reached and manifested.

    7. there are two ‘types’ of beings inhabiting the illusion: ‘anthropoids’, meaning the people without human essence or the Real I, (that would be the “sons of god/AI” or “pinocchios-by-default”) and adamic people (“sons of man” or “pinocchios” which have a potential to become human beings) i.e. those who still have the Real I, but firmly identified with their personalities on 24/7 basis, they are unaware of it so, they would think and behave in a more or less the same manner as anthropoids. Therefore, in this reality, there are no real human beings, only us, programmed to identify ourselves with them.

    8. the false reality is based on a false dualism, where the goodness and badness, the light and the dark… comes form the same source and has been controlled by the same source i.e. the AI.

    9. The only real ‘thing’ in the illusion would be the influences which are coming from one’s real part of the being, the Real I, which is connected to the True Consciousness. (Of course, in the case of adamic people.) They are called ‘influences’, because they can not be seen or visualized, they can not be palpated or heard. They can not be our thoughts, because, the source of our thoughts would be the artificial or false consciousness. Those influences can only be felt, as an ‘inner knowing’, under certain circumstances.

    10. The true salvation would only be possible only if a personality manages to establish a connection with the Real Consciousness through the Real I, with which it has been associated in this life, and to start living in accordance with that consciousness.

    11. …etc…

    **

    If the above (partial) interpretation of the “fine red thread” contained in the gnosis would be correct, then we still can gain some understanding why the gnosticism can not be productively discussed. The recipients of the teaching would be a nice mixture of adamic people and anthropoids. Both groups operating by using false (controlled) consciousness, like biochemical robots. Hardly anybody would be able to recognize the “fine red thread”; everybody will see the gnostic teaching differently and therefore, have different interpretations or comments in a case the issue is discussed on a forum. Generally speaking, the discussion will be controlled by the source in a way that people pay attention to anything else, than to the fragments of the “fine red thread”, so the true content would not be discussed. And, the Truth can not be welcomed among those who are false.

    Of course, if so, the next question would be – to whom the message was sent then, if we as personalities in human bodies, with our names and surnames, nick names and user names, are unable or unwilling to recognize and understand it?

    I will go for "truth is self explanatory". Any complication is a deception waiting to be revealed. happens all the time.

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    Default Re: Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

    Quote Posted by Truthster013 (here)
    Thanks for weighing in. I'll respond to a few select thoughts:

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    My question to you is why do you hold on to anything from the bible?
    That's a good question. Mostly it's because I have studied it my entire life and therefore I find it impossible for me not to consider new information in light of it. I often see a new piece of information and say, "how does this relate or refute what I studied my whole life". It's more of a curiosity and something to discuss because I know it so well. I no longer hold to the Bible as an authoritative source. I see it now on par with many other books of it's time.


    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    It would just say that the Septuagint (what you call the bible) and the new testament are very different beasts and if you are buying into new testament anything then you are actually following down the wrong path
    To clarify, I personally do not call the Septuagint the Bible. Maybe you meant in a generic sense but I want to clarify that I myself do not call the Septuagint "the Bible'.

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    Saul of Tarsus who is such a monster that he had to change his name to Paul and add the title himself Apostle to rebrand himself even though he never was tutored by jesus ) and not the telling of the guards(Judas). What was Saul doing when he received his vision? He was persecuting Christians as Pharisee.
    Funny you mention that. I literally wrote a book on that topic. Not a well written book, but yeah, that's a topic I know pretty well. LOL
    Yes I apologize, that was generic you and not you specific.

    But on that point. The Septuagint is the bible plus some. What I was trying to point out is all of the old testament(in a standard Christian bible doesnt matter what version) is in the Septuagint but not all of the Septuagint in the old testament.

    So my questions is who got to decide which to keep and which to exclude?

    And by reading only the parts that were included(what most call the bible) you are actually supporting the choice of keeping some and leaving others.

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