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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    I am on the side of neutrality stating that the enemy is conflict itself, and, in the world, it still has to be backed up by force.

    It is intended as complete equality and justice, which has unpleasant implications towards the unjust. It's no promised paradise but the challenge of standing on earth and making it happen. Because this process would require truth, it has little to do with politics. It perhaps could be called anarchy, as in, "absence of a ruling class", intended as no plutocracy especially by way of inheritance, but at the same time it requires law. It prefers for morality to be acquired at an early age. This may sound intangible, but, it means I have attacked aggression many times. So this is "being on a side", but not really as a personal brain-based decision, since it equally means that if I make a mistake or whatever, I own any bad thing that comes out of it.

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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    '
    "The fact that there is a battle going on at all means that no single faction has a monopoly on power. Think about that."

    Yes I have thought a lot about that actually. Unfortunately I don't perceive either "faction" as one I have chosen or created. Humans have power but it is currently being nicely controlled. Throughout history we have identified with one side or another perceiving one as better than the other. I have a side I prefer, but I still recognize I'm being manipulated and don't really understand that sides motives. Humans do not want to be controlled and thus they provide the illusion of control to them. They need to think their vote counts and they are free. They need to manipulate public opinion through propaganda to control how people vote. Yes, it is disempowering, it is not a perception but a fact. If we had power the world would not look as it does today. Recognizing that then means one has to decide how to act or react and live given that fact.

    We do paly both the victim and the villain. Why we do that in my mind is still up for debate. I have done many past life regressions on others and remembered my own past lives. I can say every king, ruler, president emperor I remembered used and abused his people. A Sumerian king killed me after I scribed his war plans to protect his secrets. I made some choices about my genetics in this life to protect me from the controllers. I have no illusions that protests, community rallies etc. agreeing to compromise are going to change things. I do believe we can make changes but not working in the system.

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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    Quote Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
    In a Beyond Quantum healing session I gave last week the client wanted to explore her relationship with her father. He had been a junkie and a very neglectful parent. When she got into the trance state her unconscious showed her many lifetimes where she had powerful and usually toxic relationships with this same being. What really affected her though was the fact that in many of these lives she had been the villainous one. For her this was a new and revolutionary concept...we all just take turns playing the good guys and the bad guys so that we can learn and grow!
    Jungian psychology comes at this same problem from a different angle, but the same ultimate conclusions. Maybe you've already read him, but for those who haven't, Jung gets into the dark side of humanity when he talks about unconscious behaviors. These are all the things people reject about themselves. "Oh I could never do that," or, "Oh, that's not me, that's evil," etc. It all amounts to the archetypal "other," something people cannot relate to and do not understand, yet is part of the human condition nonetheless.

    So for Jung, integrating the darker ("shadow") parts of the human psyche out of the unconscious and into the conscious awareness is a critical step necessary to have control over our more negative impulses. If we're not conscious of these things, if we push awareness of them away, then they're still lurking around in our unconscious, but we have no awareness or control over them.

    Instead of rejecting uncomfortable thoughts and feelings, Jung advised people to bring them to the surface, study them seriously, and thereby exercise awareness and control over them. They all have something to teach. As long as thoughts and feelings are unconscious, they are uncontrollable, and we basically behave like animals. I believe Jung was really onto something with this, and this is also why I am immensely skeptical of anyone who thinks they are some kind of angel that can do no wrong, or people who are overly preachy and self-righteous, or who think their way of looking at things is the only "correct" way, that they are capable of no evil, etc. These are exactly the people who are actually capable of committing the greatest atrocities, and always have throughout history, because they have very little self-awareness and tend to think they are infallible.

    It seems Hindu philosophy also gets into a lot of these ideas. Reading the Bhagavad Gita from a Jungian perspective is a major trip, because it also deals with the role of an individual (a warrior) in a situation where he has no control over what is happening, and yet he must do something. I think that situation will sound familiar to many people.


    One more thing that may be relevant here is in regards to the idea that "all is one." The implication of that, of course, is not simply that everything is roses and peaches, as the hippy generation seems to have believed. The other half of that coin includes the most terrible things imaginable. (Charles Manson also came out of the hippy movement.) People seem to forget that in the same way that they tend to forget their own capacity for evil, which I think is no coincidence, and goes back to Jung's point. For me, "all is one" is a profound idea that is equally exciting and blissful as it is terrifying and murderous, because "all" does not mean "only those things that I'm comfortable with."

    This goes back to the sensitivity thing I was talking about on the previous thread page. There is more going on in the world than most people would probably be able to handle, and so they just shut the nasty things out of their mind completely and cannot even process them, let alone how to react properly to them.
    Last edited by A Voice from the Mountains; 27th March 2019 at 02:10.

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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Because this process would require truth, it has little to do with politics. It perhaps could be called anarchy, as in, "absence of a ruling class", intended as no plutocracy especially by way of inheritance, but at the same time it requires law.
    If you could codify or systematize what law would look like in this case, I would be interested to consider it. That's always where the rub is, and probably some other society has already tried something like it before, once you have it all written out so that society as a whole is clear on the rules.

    Quote Posted by Savannah (here)
    'I have a side I prefer, but I still recognize I'm being manipulated and don't really understand that sides motives.
    Then instead of just giving up and not doing anything, why not try to work with what you have? I don't think it's realistic that anyone agrees with everything one party or another is saying. That's where compromises come in. And in fact there is more diversity of opinion in both major parties in the US today than people give them credit for. I personally identify a lot more with what Rand Paul says than Mitch McConnell, and more with Tulsi Gabbard on the Demorats' side than I do Nancy Pelosi. That's why they all have to go into a room and argue with each other, and I don't believe that all of their disagreements are just for show either. They seem to legitimately represent different interests, for different reasons.

    That's why some politicians get assassinated or die mysteriously, and others retire to a tropical beach. If everything was always fully controlled by some hidden interest, then they wouldn't have to murder people.

    The reason I mention congressmen is because it's very possible to direct grassroots campaigns even on a state level to get them in or out of power. If more power were delegated to state governments, you'd only have to campaign in your local city or county, which is even MORE feasible. But for that, the first step would be pressuring the feds to decentralize power, and of course once they have it, they don't want to give it up without a fight.
    Last edited by A Voice from the Mountains; 27th March 2019 at 02:56.

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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    I am a big fan of Jung! I actually use a modality in my coaching work called IFS (Internal Family Systems) which stems from Jung's work. In this modality the individual is seen as made up a central self and a constellation of sub-personalities. Of the sub personalities there are exiles (parts of ourself that we have learned are not desirable and so we push them away into the subconscious). These rejected and exiled parts often are responsible for sabotaging our efforts to move forward in life. There are also managers and protector parts etc.

    The object of this inner work is to return the exiled parts to the heart. Once they they are integrated they stop working against the whole and become vital components with their own gifts.

    The most important thing to facilitate integration is that every part feels safe. When any form of threat is perceived the managers and protectors will step in and block any real progress. It's all about trusting that no part is actually 'bad'.. from it's own wounded perspective it will have very valid reasons for what it is doing. For example it may have learned that trying to succeed can lead to humiliation...and thus it will spend its energy ensuring that the person never attempts to succeed. From its own limited perspective this makes sense. But once it is reconnected to the whole it may come to understand that success does not solely rest on its shoulders. That there are other parts that want and are able to succeed. When it understands that it doesn't have to carry the burden of success by itself it can step back and stop sabotaging.

    To me this internal process is key to healing our external reality as well.

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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    Quote Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
    The object of this inner work is to return the exiled parts to the heart. Once they they are integrated they stop working against the whole and become vital components with their own gifts.
    Exactly. And then this leads to the question of what kind of meta-system or hierarchy we have in place to make sense of all of these difference sub-personalities (or even people, in society at large), and make the best use of their individual strengths and weaknesses. A healthy person has to figure out some way to make good use of their inner sub-personalities or archetypes to function successfully in life, and on a larger scale, that's what society also has to do. Ideally, we would have a system where the role people play in society is best matched with their own individual interests and skills, to create the greatest amount of over-all harmony.

    I also like the analogy of comparing the human body to society. Every system of the body, every organ, even every cell, has some function. They are not all the same, nor can they all be the same, or else the body as a whole would not be able to function. And in a functioning society, if you look at it economically (since I think economics is a much more objective "science" than politics), you also have to have a range of jobs that people are doing, and many different specializations.

    That means that not everyone can serve an executive function in an industrial business, just like not everyone can serve as a janitor. Nor should there be anything inherently shameful about being a janitor. In Japanese culture, work itself is honorable, regardless of what kind of work it is, and I admire that about the Japanese. One of many admirable things about their culture, in my opinion.

    That's where politics comes into play, since politics is in effect society as a whole deciding who is allowed to do what and how, whether we like it or not. That's what politicians of all persuasions are arguing about. I favor individual liberty as much as possible, so that individuals can build a society from the bottom-up, rather than a system that is dictated from the top-down. And to determine who gets what position, merit should be involved to some degree for society's sake, which I think must bring some form of competition into the equation as well. But there still has to be some give-and-take between both the individual and society at large, not to mention a general agreement among individuals as to what type of society we want to collectively create. There will probably never be total agreement in society on the finer details of all of that.

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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    "Then instead of just giving up and not doing anything, why not try to work with what you have? "






    Voice, I have not given up at all, on the contrary I have returned to this planet and are fighting tooth and nail, but not at the ballot box
    Last edited by Savannah; 28th March 2019 at 02:27.

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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    Hi Voice, Nice to see we have found some common ground

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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    If we don't defeat the crooks, none of this other lovely talk will amount to anything. I like all the great thinking and grappling with the human condition etc, I really do. It's kinda what life should be all about.

    But, cultures have lived throughout history that were very sophisticated and 'intelligent' until the tanks ( or whatever current war tech applied ) rolled over the border and wiped them all out by force.
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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    But, cultures have lived throughout history that were very sophisticated and 'intelligent' until the tanks ( or whatever current war tech applied ) rolled over the border and wiped them all out by force.
    That's why governments shouldn't be allowed to have a monopoly on force.

    It's nearly a logistical impossibility for any modern nation, or even coalition of nations, to invade and occupy the US, for example, simply because there are about 70 million people here with some level of firepower. That's about 30 times larger than the biggest army on Earth (China's).

    I once read a book by an ex-military intelligence guy wargaming what it would likely look like if a coalition UN force tried to invade and occupy the US, and even in the best case scenario, it would be a total nightmare for them and they'd stand no real hope of success.

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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    But that's kinda missing the point a bit Voice. This time, it's an enemy that doesn't have a nation or a government, and it's not Tanks.

    We are a quite well flourishing culture that rose out of an industrial revolution, probably as an unintended byproduct of that revolution. Our enemy seems to regard us as industrial waste product, or at least the key feature of our flourishing from that event, our middle class and it's fancy idea of a liberated human being.
    Last edited by norman; 30th March 2019 at 08:58.
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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    What's more dangerous than a standing army at the border is the enemy within.
    Just like the parasites, the enemy sucks the best out of you and scatters toxic ideas, especially toward the young.
    Liberal education is the enemy's tool and mass media their best weapon, while the Babylonian banking system nourishes the enemy while stealing your money, your house and your family.
    The US Constitution has been replaced by the Talmudic logic by the ilk of Ginsburg who I hope is very dead now.
    Left vs right
    north vs south
    east vs west
    white vs black
    rich vs poor
    That's their modus operandi

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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    Quote Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
    Only when we are able to stop putting down the ‘other side’ and start creating a meaningful dialogue between the two camps will we be able to unite, and truly throw off our shackles.
    this has been discuss here many many times. Only with different wordings and examples. But nice reminder anyway. The big question is how do you propose to unite people to a meaningful dialogue.
    The big picture is that while we realize the problem no one knows the solution.
    Ok so maybe I will let a week pass then make a thread of same thought. "lies repeated equals truth".
    Its in the mind, how people think, in the programming of the mind.

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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    It is not necessary to unite people.
    It is human nature to disagree with each other.

    As long as we realize that we have been screwed by the Babylonian debt-based, interest-bearing banking system invented by Enlil and demonic entities for such a long time, solutions will be found automatically

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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    Quote Posted by Didgevillage (here)
    It is not necessary to unite people.
    It is human nature to disagree with each other.

    As long as we realize that we have been screwed by the Babylonian debt-based, interest-bearing banking system invented by Enlil and demonic entities for such a long time, solutions will be found automatically
    well then we have to unite the big majority of people to the truth that we been dupe. If only few realize then no solution.

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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    That's the way history has been written.

    Only a handful of Americans rose up against the English crown.
    The majority was busy watching football and CNN (assuming they had them)

    On the other hand, human history can take a very wrong turn by a handful of conspirators, as in 911.
    Last edited by Didgevillage; 31st March 2019 at 10:39.

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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    Quote Posted by Didgevillage (here)
    That's the way history has been written.

    Only a handful of Americans rose up against the English crown.
    The majority was busy watching football and CNN (assuming they had them)
    Something like 2% actively participated in the Revolutionary War, some of my ancestors among them. One of them an immigrant from Germany already in his 50s.

    It's estimated that only about 1/3 of the American population even ideologically supported the revolution at that time. About 1/3 wanted to remain politically united with Britain, and about 1/3 didn't care one way or the other. In many ways analogous to the situation today, if you consider the number of Americans who don't even bother to vote, vs. the political affiliations of the ones who do.

    It doesn't take as many people to radically change society as you'd think, especially when most people are apathetic/unmotivated/unorganized.

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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    Quote Posted by Didgevillage (here)
    What's more dangerous than a standing army at the border is the enemy within.
    Just like the parasites, the enemy sucks the best out of you and scatters toxic ideas, especially toward the young.

    Liberal education is the enemy's tool and mass media their best weapon, while the Babylonian banking system nourishes the enemy while stealing your money, your house and your family.
    The US Constitution has been replaced by the Talmudic logic by the ilk of Ginsburg who I hope is very dead now.
    Left vs right
    north vs south
    east vs west
    white vs black
    rich vs poor
    That's their modus operandi
    Could you explain precisely who you are referring to here.
    Last edited by loungelizard; 1st April 2019 at 12:15.

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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    Marxism rose out of the teaching of the Talmud, just as modern liberalism and political correctness.
    The Talmud teaches Jews to rule the goyim (non-Jews) by dividing them over non-issues.

    Consequently, a non-Jew who studies the Talmud must be killed, according to the Talmud.

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    Default Re: If You Are Aligned With a Side ...

    Quote Posted by Didgevillage (here)
    Marxism rose out of the teaching of the Talmud, just as modern liberalism and political correctness.
    The Talmud teaches Jews to rule the goyim (non-Jews) by dividing them over non-issues.

    Consequently, a non-Jew who studies the Talmud must be killed, according to the Talmud.

    Your post is way off topic, but I’d like to respond.

    The OP of this thread was written in praise of unity rather than division, and you thanked enfolded blue for her thoughts.

    And yet, in several posts you have made on this forum, you are attempting to spread discord by repeatedly expressing
    revulsion and hatred towards one particular group of people, referring to them as toxic, and as parasites. That is truly
    shocking, DV.

    Oh, and misquoting the Talmud, or quoting sections out of context, is an age-old method used to incite anti-Semitism: you clearly
    have no understanding of the text itself.

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