+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 58

Thread: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

  1. Link to Post #1
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    26th December 2010
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    9,561
    Thanks
    37,831
    Thanked 52,748 times in 8,858 posts

    Default A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    David Suzuki, a nature advocate and a great geneticist, (in my opinion should have had the Nobel price), is pleading for the planet.

    He talks with all the statistics and much knowledge about what is happening with nature and the planet.

    He plead to the retired businessman and CEO to tell the truth, since they have nothing to lose anymore and great wisdom to impart.

    He plead governments to give the same impetus to changing the pollution as was given to going to the moon.

    He says that stat are now telling that we have only a 5% chance not to have increase in weather of more than 2 degrees, which in itself is catastrophic.

    For those who did not believe in planet warming, I must tell that now the stats are out in Canada and Canada is warming up at twice the rate of the rest of the world.

    There is a definite warming, and northern regions are the first to see it. Which is what should be. Here, although we had a cold winter, last summer was so hot and humid in Montreal that the paint would not stick to the roads and lanes could not be redone (I asked my mayor why they did not do the job, it was the answer).

    He says that we barely have 50% of chance to survive up to 2100, us, the human specie. He cannot believe we don't have love enough for our children to demand again and again to government to invest in protecting our specie, to force them to do it,

    Then he shows some solutions, but not enough if investments are not in.

    .

  2. The Following 15 Users Say Thank You to Flash For This Post:

    Constance (9th April 2019), Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019), Dennis Leahy (9th April 2019), Franny (9th April 2019), Jayke (9th April 2019), Kryztian (9th April 2019), loungelizard (16th April 2019), onevoice (15th April 2019), petra (17th April 2019), Sadieblue (11th April 2019), Star Tsar (9th April 2019), toppy (9th April 2019), william r sanford72 (9th April 2019), XelNaga (10th April 2019), xylo (1st September 2019)

  3. Link to Post #2
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    17th December 2010
    Location
    Alberta - Canada
    Posts
    749
    Thanks
    899
    Thanked 4,125 times in 675 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    Hello Everyone:

    Are we talking about the same "David Suzuki"? The David Suzuki you are talking about was around about 40 years ago. Since then he sold out to foreign cash and has a huge eco foot print that most Canadians couldn't compete with if they even tried.
    I thought I would just type his name into a search engine and the first article says it all

    https://fairquestions.typepad.com/re...-suzuki-1.html

    So much for someone that might have? Should have? Probably deserved a Nobel Prize 40 years ago or more BUT he sold out to money and fame.

    Come to think of it it is the same "David Suzuki"
    chancy

  4. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to chancy For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019), Flash (9th April 2019), Richard S. (11th April 2019), toppy (9th April 2019), xylo (1st September 2019)

  5. Link to Post #3
    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th January 2011
    Location
    Duluth, Minnesota
    Age
    65
    Posts
    6,154
    Thanks
    35,222
    Thanked 41,855 times in 5,225 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    Quote Posted by chancy (here)
    Hello Everyone:

    Are we talking about the same "David Suzuki"? The David Suzuki you are talking about was around about 40 years ago. Since then he sold out to foreign cash and has a huge eco foot print that most Canadians couldn't compete with if they even tried.
    I thought I would just type his name into a search engine and the first article says it all

    https://fairquestions.typepad.com/re...-suzuki-1.html

    So much for someone that might have? Should have? Probably deserved a Nobel Prize 40 years ago or more BUT he sold out to money and fame.

    Come to think of it it is the same "David Suzuki"
    chancy
    chanccy, this is a great example of killing the messenger. Give the interview a listen, note the 4 sacred things mentioned - our common ground with humanity at the most basic biological level.


  6. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Dennis Leahy For This Post:

    Constance (9th April 2019), DeDukshyn (9th April 2019), Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019), Flash (9th April 2019), Kryztian (12th April 2019), toppy (9th April 2019), xylo (1st September 2019)

  7. Link to Post #4
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    26th December 2010
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    9,561
    Thanks
    37,831
    Thanked 52,748 times in 8,858 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    Quote Posted by chancy (here)
    Hello Everyone:

    Are we talking about the same "David Suzuki"? The David Suzuki you are talking about was around about 40 years ago. Since then he sold out to foreign cash and has a huge eco foot print that most Canadians couldn't compete with if they even tried.
    I thought I would just type his name into a search engine and the first article says it all

    https://fairquestions.typepad.com/re...-suzuki-1.html

    So much for someone that might have? Should have? Probably deserved a Nobel Prize 40 years ago or more BUT he sold out to money and fame.

    Come to think of it it is the same "David Suzuki"
    chancy
    He sold out to women for sure lollll. But to money and fame? Even if he had local fame (pretty much only in Canada, who knows him in USA?), he made incredibly good vulgarisation of science for 40 years. On tv maybe, but it was the way to reach people at the time.

    Listen to the video, the content is quite good. Do not throw the baby with the bath water.

    Now, that global warming comes from our activities or from the sun or from a new place we are passing through in the universe becomes irrelevant if we have to protect our specie against global warming consequences.

    Truth still have to be told and drastic measures taken. That is what he iscalling for, and on this I agree.
    Last edited by Flash; 9th April 2019 at 13:35.

  8. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Flash For This Post:

    Constance (9th April 2019), DeDukshyn (9th April 2019), Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019), Dennis Leahy (9th April 2019), toppy (9th April 2019), xylo (1st September 2019)

  9. Link to Post #5
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    26th December 2010
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    9,561
    Thanks
    37,831
    Thanked 52,748 times in 8,858 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Quote Posted by chancy (here)
    Hello Everyone:

    Are we talking about the same "David Suzuki"? The David Suzuki you are talking about was around about 40 years ago. Since then he sold out to foreign cash and has a huge eco foot print that most Canadians couldn't compete with if they even tried.
    I thought I would just type his name into a search engine and the first article says it all

    https://fairquestions.typepad.com/re...-suzuki-1.html

    So much for someone that might have? Should have? Probably deserved a Nobel Prize 40 years ago or more BUT he sold out to money and fame.

    Come to think of it it is the same "David Suzuki"
    chancy
    chanccy, this is a great example of killing the messenger. Give the interview a listen, note the 4 sacred things mentioned - our common ground with humanity at the most basic biological level.
    Yes it is killing the messenger.

    One should ask oneself the following: is it because I come from a state/province which is a main supplier of petroleum that I have been consciously or unconsciously pushed to be against anybody proposing causes and/or solutions that would destroy that petroleum industry?

    In other words Chancy, is there any chance that your drastic thinking would be due to family, friends or your province being against him for talking against the petroleum industry which is THE main industry in Alberta?

    As Suzuki himself described in this video when meeting with a close minded Petroleum CEO most probably who wanted to shut him up.

    Ok found his net worth: 25 millions Can dollars (anout 18-20 US). For producing 40 years of science programs, articles and research.

    This is much less than any such production career in the USA or in Europe. What are you talking about. Anderson Coopers has more and is just an anchorman, not a creator of anything.

    NOW can we listen to the message before falling into silt (intended wording ) ... and doing the petroleum industry destroying job for them, free of charge?
    Last edited by Flash; 9th April 2019 at 14:33.

  10. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Flash For This Post:

    Constance (9th April 2019), DeDukshyn (9th April 2019), Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019), Dennis Leahy (9th April 2019), toppy (9th April 2019)

  11. Link to Post #6
    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    22nd January 2011
    Location
    From 100 Mile House ;-)
    Language
    English
    Age
    45
    Posts
    7,757
    Thanks
    24,897
    Thanked 32,274 times in 6,946 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    ....

    Yes it is killing the messenger.

    One should ask oneself the following: is it because I come from a state/province which is a main supplier of petroleum that I have been consciously or unconsciously pushed to be against anybody proposing causes and/or solutions that would destroy that petroleum industry?

    ...


    I was going to make a comment in a similar regard before I noticed the conversation even going this way ... I noticed that people who have a hate for Suzuki tend to have fallen for big corporations propaganda, and have no actual basis for any argument against him. I do hear constantly things like "he flies a jet around the world to speak about environmental issues - therefore he doesn't really care about the environment so therefore he is a fake and we don't need to care about the environment" --- literally stupid weak arguments like this - similar to Facebook meme posters saying things like "If you don't want a billion pipelines running across pristine sacred land then you better stop putting gas in your car or else you are a hypocrite" -- as though the oil in a pipeline somehow becomes gas in my car (it doesn't it gets exported to China in crude form). Its obviously parroted BS because there is no logic or reasoning happening there -- just conflation and BS reasoning that's really stupid.

    So I say "bring it" to anyone who's going to use big corp propaganda as reasoning to hate one of the few people left genuinely trying to make a difference for our great grandchildren, and therefore as reasoning to not give 2 craps about the argument, and let's get this straightened out. The truth is the haters have no argument, they just parrot the propaganda put out by big oil and far right political groups.

    There is no reason to keep destroying our planet - only our great grand children will suffer -- and suffer they will if things don't change fast ... is this the legacy we want to leave them?
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 9th April 2019 at 14:33.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

  12. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to DeDukshyn For This Post:

    Constance (9th April 2019), Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019), Flash (9th April 2019), Kryztian (12th April 2019), toppy (9th April 2019)

  13. Link to Post #7
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    26th December 2010
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    9,561
    Thanks
    37,831
    Thanked 52,748 times in 8,858 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    Reposting another of Suzuki's interview video for those who will only look at detrimental posts, without listening to the op video.

    This one is only 20 minutes long, can be listened to while doing something else, and is a must to help ourselves, the planet, our children. The basic message remains.



    Thanks Dennis and Dedukshyn for putting the thread back on track.

  14. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Flash For This Post:

    Constance (9th April 2019), Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019), toppy (9th April 2019), william r sanford72 (9th April 2019)

  15. Link to Post #8
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    17th December 2010
    Location
    Alberta - Canada
    Posts
    749
    Thanks
    899
    Thanked 4,125 times in 675 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    Hello Flash and everyone:

    Yes it is killing the messenger.
    One should ask oneself the following: is it because I come from a state/province which is a main supplier of petroleum that I have been consciously or unconsciously pushed to be against anybody proposing causes and/or solutions that would destroy that petroleum industry?
    In other words Chancy, is there any chance that your drastic thinking would be due to family, friends or your province being against him for talking against the petroleum industry which is THE main industry in Alberta?



    It's really quite amazing how you are putting words in my mouth Flash!! IF you want to tell the truth which you are not about me then you would know that Alberta implemented some of the harshes cap and trade rules and was the first province in the country to do so.
    Furthermore I post an article about Suzuki swearing and going on to a human being asking for a few minutes of his time ( remember you were the one that said he is a great man! Great men don't swear at people for trying to get some honest answers)

    I never killed the messenger Flash! I simply gave another perspective of Suzuki. Your own province imports cheap oil from the middle east and you have the audacity to ragged on me for being from Alberta?
    This is why the dillusions in Quebec are so one sided...due to transfer payments Quebec has been living off Alberta for decades. That woujld mean that you and your province are part of the problem IF Alberta has been so lacks on it's implementation of the strongest cap and trade rules in the land of Canada.
    I personally can tell you that Alberta has nothing to say to You or anyone in the east that buys all their war torn oil from the middle east. Your part of Canada has not come to reality as you are trying to portray Quebec as a poor underdog when in reality it has more to lose from oil and gas than you think.

    FLASH: let me be perfectly clear! I was not rerailing your thread. Simply telling truth or is truth not valid in your thread(s)?
    FLASH: to actually ask me these ridiculous questions about my character makes me wonder about your character? I am tired of getting ragged on for just stating a truth that you might not like.
    Even Suzuki doesn't deny he was rude and many other things to this woman.

    By the way you are lying about Alberta being a main supplier of oil. We do not have any oil pipeline to the east. Remember you get your oil from the middle east and have always done so.

    IF you want to go after someone like myself at least get your facts correct. I will accept truth BUT you are simply lying....period

    chancy

  16. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to chancy For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019), Joe (10th April 2019), toppy (9th April 2019)

  17. Link to Post #9
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    26th December 2010
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    9,561
    Thanks
    37,831
    Thanked 52,748 times in 8,858 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    Ok chancy, please leave my thread and let other member the chance to judge by themselve. Thanks

    I am not talking of yur caractere, just asking you to ask the question to yourself.

    And I did not do Alberta blasting as you are actually doing for Quebec.

    Never wrote about Alberta being a main supplier of oil, worlwide it is not, but oil being the main production of Alberta. Sand oil, quite dirty oil for nature. If any comparison is worth it, which in my views it is not -oil is dirty wherever it is from.

    The solution is not in oil, but you rather blast the messengers, in this case me included.

    So please, leave this thread.
    Last edited by Flash; 9th April 2019 at 15:48.

  18. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Flash For This Post:

    Constance (9th April 2019), Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019), Kryztian (12th April 2019), toppy (9th April 2019)

  19. Link to Post #10
    Canada Avalon Member Justplain's Avatar
    Join Date
    8th April 2016
    Posts
    1,205
    Thanks
    3,295
    Thanked 6,666 times in 1,140 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    Although we must do our best to reduce and eliminate pollution, which includes the genetic pollution of GMO and poisoning of the environment with unsustainable fertilizers/herbicides/pesticides, we must remember that Mother Earth has been through warmer periods than we have now (or will have), even only as recently as some of the interglacial periods, where also carbon dioxide levels were considerably higher than now as well. Nature's creatures survived those times. Humanity survived the near extinction event of the great floods (there were apparently more than 1).

    Yes, we need to get off the oil/internal combustion engine paradigm, for many reasons, including pollution and marginalizing it's power politics. We likely will overcome these technology problems, and we can contribute to this by voting with our feet and our wallets by supporting the lifestyle choices to get us to a better world. But climate change ain't gonna wipe us out.

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Justplain For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019), Flash (10th April 2019), Kryztian (12th April 2019)

  21. Link to Post #11
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    17th December 2010
    Location
    Alberta - Canada
    Posts
    749
    Thanks
    899
    Thanked 4,125 times in 675 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    Although we must do our best to reduce and eliminate pollution, which includes the genetic pollution of GMO and poisoning of the environment with unsustainable fertilizers/herbicides/pesticides, we must remember that Mother Earth has been through warmer periods than we have now (or will have), even only as recently as some of the interglacial periods, where also carbon dioxide levels were considerably higher than now as well. Nature's creatures survived those times. Humanity survived the near extinction event of the great floods (there were apparently more than 1).

    Yes, we need to get off the oil/internal combustion engine paradigm, for many reasons, including pollution and marginalizing it's power politics. We likely will overcome these technology problems, and we can contribute to this by voting with our feet and our wallets by supporting the lifestyle choices to get us to a better world. But climate change ain't gonna wipe us out.

    Hello Everyone
    Thanks for speaking truth. It appears that only certain people are allowed to speak truth on this thread.
    chancy

    PS
    Flash...speak truth and I will be more than happy to not post in your threads. Continue to bring out slanted and biased views and I will definitely call you out on it.
    chancy

  22. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to chancy For This Post:

    Bob (10th April 2019), Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019), Joe (10th April 2019)

  23. Link to Post #12
    Australia Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    26th January 2011
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    2,050
    Thanks
    13,133
    Thanked 11,469 times in 1,706 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    Thanks Flash.
    In this video at 13.08, David Suzuki talks about his visit to Australia in 1989 and how this was a game changer for him. He couldn't believe what we were doing to our Great Barrier Reef.

    He revisited Australia a few years later and I went along to one of his talks. What he had to say about our lack of care for Mother Earth weighed heavily on my heart and mind. Actually, it was not what he said that weighed heavily on my heart and mind but how he said it. He was almost begging the people at that talk to reconsider how they lived.

    I purchased a book he wrote called Wisdom of our Elders. I devoured that book and forwarded it on to anyone who would read it.

    I don't allow to myself to get caught up in any of the debates as to whether climate change is real or not because all around me, it is self-evident that how we are living is not working.

    Perhaps we could set aside any differences we have regarding what has been said here and maybe focus on what it is that we do agree upon?

    What is it that we do want for each other and ourselves when it comes to Mother Earth and our relationship with her?

    I would like to mention two things here that I would consider to be common ground but if anyone disagrees with this list, I am more than happy to alter it to reflect what unites us rather than what divides us.



    • To be at One with nature
    • To live in a safe and clean environment



    “We're in a giant car heading towards a brick wall and everyones arguing over where they're going to sit”

    ― David Suzuki
    Last edited by Constance; 10th April 2019 at 04:16. Reason: left a few important bits out

  24. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Constance For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019), Flash (10th April 2019), Kryztian (12th April 2019), Star Tsar (10th April 2019), Valerie Villars (12th April 2019)

  25. Link to Post #13
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    26th December 2010
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    9,561
    Thanks
    37,831
    Thanked 52,748 times in 8,858 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    Quote Posted by chancy (here)
    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    Although we must do our best to reduce and eliminate pollution, which includes the genetic pollution of GMO and poisoning of the environment with unsustainable fertilizers/herbicides/pesticides, we must remember that Mother Earth has been through warmer periods than we have now (or will have), even only as recently as some of the interglacial periods, where also carbon dioxide levels were considerably higher than now as well. Nature's creatures survived those times. Humanity survived the near extinction event of the great floods (there were apparently more than 1).

    Yes, we need to get off the oil/internal combustion engine paradigm, for many reasons, including pollution and marginalizing it's power politics. We likely will overcome these technology problems, and we can contribute to this by voting with our feet and our wallets by supporting the lifestyle choices to get us to a better world. But climate change ain't gonna wipe us out.

    Hello Everyone
    Thanks for speaking truth. It appears that only certain people are allowed to speak truth on this thread.
    chancy

    PS
    Flash...speak truth and I will be more than happy to not post in your threads. Continue to bring out slanted and biased views and I will definitely call you out on it.
    chancy
    DUH....

    this is exactly the same basic message I was trying to get across.

    How come when it is Justplain, he is saying the truth, and when it is me, I am not?????? You went on your high horse because you do not like Suzuki and would not give a chance to the thread to develop??? Was that your intent?

    I do not want your skewed views, based on what I believe to be based on racism against French Canadian and Quebec, to get involved in my thread. I very rarely bring Quebec versus the Canadian West politics in the forum, I think it is basically stupid and overall destructive. But you do. A few times, always when I wrote some posts or threads.

    This is not the first time you do this to me Chancy. I had enough. It is stupid and not needed.

    Now, let the thread develop, if it will ever, because you probably gladfully are killing it.

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to Flash For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019)

  27. Link to Post #14
    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th January 2011
    Location
    Toronto
    Age
    61
    Posts
    3,562
    Thanks
    15,210
    Thanked 20,866 times in 3,324 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    Lesson here: Don't mess with one of Canada's greatest heros.
    Forget about it

  28. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Ernie Nemeth For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019), Flash (10th April 2019), Joe (10th April 2019)

  29. Link to Post #15
    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    22nd January 2011
    Location
    From 100 Mile House ;-)
    Language
    English
    Age
    45
    Posts
    7,757
    Thanks
    24,897
    Thanked 32,274 times in 6,946 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    ... But climate change ain't gonna wipe us out.
    Well, considering there is far more to the corporate destruction of our earth than "climate change", then let's just shoot for "massive suffering of humanity on a global scale?" -- that should be a nice balance and protect "the economy"? Besides it won't be me that suffers -- it'll be my great grand kids ... screw them, right?

    ----------------------------

    I don't know why defending the right for our planet to not be continuously destructed and poisoned is impossible these days without someone opposing, defending it, or downplaying it or asking everyone to look the other way in a sense ... why would this be? Do you people really want a slow death for your great grandchildren? Is it always "someone else's problem"?

    Why is there defense of the poisoning and destruction of our planet. Two members here literally just did that in two different ways -- one was to attack the messenger (the messenger being Suzuki, not Flash), and dismiss the message (without even hearing it) and the other basically claimed that "destruction of the planet is 'ok' because we have survived other horrific disasters" (paraphrased of course).

    Why? Think about it -- neither argument is rational nor reasonable ... almost like a program being parroted without forethought ... without watching the video, without bringing an argument of substance actually on the video topics, just sweeping, broad, thoughtless dismissals ...

    If you are one of the ones who don't believe the glaciers are melting and that the earth is warming, that is fine - there's a fair bit of debate in that area, but we should not be so foolish to conflate an uncertainty here with the absolute certainty that we are being incredibly destructive to out planet - our home - our future. There is no doubt over this and please if anyone would like to argue about how environmental issues are none of their concern, please do as has been already asked and start your own thread on that topic. I'm sure it will be a worthwhile read. [/s]


    Edit: I just want to add that there is an obvious political bias here when it comes to environmental concerns. It was touched upon when the discussion turned topic turned to "Alberta". I have never seen so much political polarization here in Alberta, and all across Canada as I have recently.

    Alberta is "conservative" country - we only have a left leaning government right now because the last party nearly bankrupt the entire province during a potentially extremely lucrutave oil boom - how they managed to do that I have no clue but it was what it was. Most people in Alberta would probably piss on kittens to get their "pipeline" built because they somehow believe it will magically make their lives better. Many people have a massive unconscious alignment here with greedy corporations (due to massive propaganda campaigns that political fanbois spread at command), and those corporations are "oil". Environmental concerns stand in the way of "oil". Viola, you have an immediate emotional reaction against anything concerning the environment because you are either a staunch conservative or "Oil > Earth" is the program. This is basically all of Alberta right now.

    Now it looks like I am being a left winger attacking the right, but this is how I see it: having love for the earth, our home, and her creatures is a human thing. Not wanting to live in a cesspool of destruction and despair does not lend itself to "left" or "right". Not wanting to breath cancer and wonder why cancer rates are so high isn't a political issue. Its a human one.

    How is it that a political bias can take being "human" out of the human? Why is it that people of a conservative political bias constantly act dismissively of any environmental concern? Can one not be a conservative and have humanity? have balance?

    Anyway, I digress ... sorry for the off topic rant.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 11th April 2019 at 23:04.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

  30. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to DeDukshyn For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019), Flash (10th April 2019), william r sanford72 (10th April 2019)

  31. Link to Post #16
    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th January 2011
    Location
    Toronto
    Age
    61
    Posts
    3,562
    Thanks
    15,210
    Thanked 20,866 times in 3,324 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    Climate change is not possible to refute, since that is the nature of climate. Unlike global warming which can be argued.

    But, to ask me to sacrifice my few dollars and my convenience is to make me the bad guy. Since childhood I have seen this atrocity and understood its agenda.

    It is the corporations that owe us the cleanup at their expense. We made them the big successes they are. Now when they are more solvent than our countries and have more influence than our politicians they turn their backs on us.

    Like the tobacco companies they should foot the bill for their irresponsible industrial practices.
    Forget about it

  32. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Ernie Nemeth For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019), Flash (10th April 2019), Justplain (10th April 2019), Valerie Villars (12th April 2019)

  33. Link to Post #17
    Canada Avalon Member Justplain's Avatar
    Join Date
    8th April 2016
    Posts
    1,205
    Thanks
    3,295
    Thanked 6,666 times in 1,140 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    Dedukshyn, I went to great length to say that pollution is bad and should be counteracted. I in no way 'downplayed' the significance of pollution. The doomsday fear mongering that is foisted on the average person is what I object to. Ernie makes the point as to who should, or can, do something about the current mess. However, we are not in danger of extinction from this. And I do believe we will solve the problem.

    There isn't much most of us can do, other than choosing the least polluting alternative available to us, and those choices are fairly limited. Whose to blame for that can be argued, but it's fairly obvious that wealth and greed are a major factor, just look at what happened to Tesla's work. Rumors are that the black ops military has all the needed tech, but how do we get it?

    I don't expect the average person to give up their warm homes to live in cardboard shacks to save the planet from us. However, requiring public policy to invest in helpful tech, and to regulate out bad tech, is the main way this society can achieve this. As well as voting with your wallets.

    So, we don't need any soapbox speeches deriding those who have differing points of view than you. It's just childish.

  34. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Justplain For This Post:

    DeDukshyn (10th April 2019), Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019), Flash (10th April 2019)

  35. Link to Post #18
    United States Avalon Member Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    27th February 2015
    Age
    48
    Posts
    278
    Thanks
    1,174
    Thanked 1,424 times in 253 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    I was avoiding this thread because, even though I disagreed with the arguments made in the video, the thread title conflated “a plea for the planet” with “a great geneticist”.

    The “plea for the planet” is an impassioned emotional plea, a tactic used to divide people into a false dichotomy: either you care for the environment and accept the “plea”, or, you don’t care for the environment and therefore believe in the destruction of it.

    I both care for the environment, and reject the arguments he makes. He uses three false examples for why the planet is suffering. If I disagree with the three false assumptions then I am attacked for not caring for the planet.

    The title of the thread should maybe be more aptly changed to: A plea for the planet by David Suzuki. or maybe just, An impassioned plea for the planet.

  36. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Joe For This Post:

    Bob (11th April 2019), Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019), Justplain (11th April 2019), Sandy123 (15th April 2019)

  37. Link to Post #19
    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    22nd January 2011
    Location
    From 100 Mile House ;-)
    Language
    English
    Age
    45
    Posts
    7,757
    Thanks
    24,897
    Thanked 32,274 times in 6,946 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    ...

    It is the corporations that owe us the cleanup at their expense. .
    Perhaps you haven't thought about this much. I agree that a carbon tax seems really stupid - and it mostly is ...

    I'll give you Alberta for example, because I live here. The big corporations that are the greatest environmental offenders have plainly said that any action that regulators put on them that causes them to have to spend more money than they want will be passed directly to their sellers, and the consumers. Full stop. Let that sink in ...

    There is no way to penalize these companies - they have that much power and control. A massive increase in cost to these industries means that all the prices go up, purchasing power goes dow, economy suffers, Big Corp still makes their profits, but the politicians that applied these penalties gets instantly voted out for ruining the economy and causing inflation. Big Corps just spill out their propoganda and people vote out the government that tried to do exactly what you just said, and a government that chants for more support for big Corps gets voted back in and all the penalties are removed.

    That's how politics work when everyone is programmed to see the world in a "left vs right" spectrum.

    Alberta was one of the first provinces to have a "carbon tax" but it is a tax on the rich, not on the corporations. The corporations said, "go ahead tax us - and watch your consumers cries when we just pass that cost directly to them - what are going to do then?".

    So the government figured that the wealthy are probably the ones gain most form these corporations so let's let the corporations pass all the penalties on to all the consumers, then lets redistribute that money to the less wealthy and middle class in the form of rebates.

    The problem is not as easy to solve as you think -- you underestimate the grip over people and voters these large corporations have, the mind bending propaganda that is used by them and their political "buddies".


    The ONLY solution is for each of us to sop supporting these companies. Buy a bike, live local, live simple, the only way to take power from these corporations is to find ways to stop giving them power. It will need a critical mass to have any real impact so we all need to talk about this and not sweep it under the rug because someone doesn't like the speaker of whatnot.

    You don't have to sacrifice a "few dollars' you just need to live responsibly. Waiting for the government or for these big corporations to actually do something effective will be like waiting for ETs to save us from ourselves .. it ain't happening unless people on the ground - the consumers start making choices that drive home the message.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    Dedukshyn, I went to great length to say that pollution is bad and should be counteracted. I in no way 'downplayed' the significance of pollution. The doomsday fear mongering that is foisted on the average person is what I object to. Ernie makes the point as to who should, or can, do something about the current mess. However, we are not in danger of extinction from this. And I do believe we will solve the problem.

    There isn't much most of us can do, other than choosing the least polluting alternative available to us, and those choices are fairly limited. Whose to blame for that can be argued, but it's fairly obvious that wealth and greed are a major factor, just look at what happened to Tesla's work. Rumors are that the black ops military has all the needed tech, but how do we get it?

    I don't expect the average person to give up their warm homes to live in cardboard shacks to save the planet from us. However, requiring public policy to invest in helpful tech, and to regulate out bad tech, is the main way this society can achieve this. As well as voting with your wallets.

    So, we don't need any soapbox speeches deriding those who have differing points of view than you. It's just childish.
    I hear you, but to be fair, I was only referring to your comment about the earth having survived other horrible catastrophe's so that means "we'll be fine". It is this type of conflation that is highly detrimental to having an appropriate and reasonable attitude toward the topic.

    Not sure why saying that pollution is "bad" takes 'great lengths' to get there ... perhaps my observation wasn't so out of place after all.

    Also I wasn't arguing against people who have an "opposing view", I was being critical of people who were instantly dismissive in a sweeping generalization, without watching the content of what this thread is about and without offering any sound logical reasoning to back up their views. I expect at least a little of that here on Avalon. I don't mind opposing views, but if the debate can't be even slightly thought out and intelligent - I get critical.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 11th April 2019 at 16:14.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

  38. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to DeDukshyn For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (15th April 2019), Flash (10th April 2019), Philippe (11th April 2019)

  39. Link to Post #20
    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    22nd January 2011
    Location
    From 100 Mile House ;-)
    Language
    English
    Age
    45
    Posts
    7,757
    Thanks
    24,897
    Thanked 32,274 times in 6,946 posts

    Default Re: A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

    Quote Posted by Joe (here)
    I was avoiding this thread because, even though I disagreed with the arguments made in the video, the thread title conflated “a plea for the planet” with “a great geneticist”.

    The “plea for the planet” is an impassioned emotional plea, a tactic used to divide people into a false dichotomy: either you care for the environment and accept the “plea”, or, you don’t care for the environment and therefore believe in the destruction of it.

    I both care for the environment, and reject the arguments he makes. He uses three false examples for why the planet is suffering. If I disagree with the three false assumptions then I am attacked for not caring for the planet.

    The title of the thread should maybe be more aptly changed to: A plea for the planet by David Suzuki. or maybe just, An impassioned plea for the planet.
    While I don't agree with some of what you wrote, you've came the closest to offering a reasonable opposing view (perhaps you can say why you think his examples are false? - there would be nothing wrong with discussing that), but then you stopped short of explaining your claim ... the issue I am having on this thread is people using their political bias as an argument without a discussion on reasonable points about the topic.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

  40. The Following User Says Thank You to DeDukshyn For This Post:

    Flash (10th April 2019)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts