A plea for the planet by a great geneticist

[Ernie Nemeth]

I wasn't considering the pragmatic situation as it stands today. I merely stated the truth, that corporations created the problem and so they are culpable. Of course all expenses get passed along to consumers, whether right or wrong that is how it is...

The other thing to remember is that corporations no longer price their goods according to cost but accordong to what the market can bear. For that reason, it can be argued that corporations have the room to make reparations without any cost to the consumer. The problem is. Modern accounting that will look at profits before and after and conclude their companies took a hit and lost revenue - revenue they should never have had in the first place.

[James]

Regardless of anyone’s thoughts on mankind-driven climate change, ecological stewardship in a capitalistic society is super important.

On the other side of town, folks kept developing peculiar cancers at relatively young ages. Some investigative work found a local company was disposing of carcinogenic waste in several different wooded areas at night. This got into the ground water, and now miles of my country neighbors are buying their water.

The west side of town had the same issue a few months ago with ethylene oxide emissions from a manufacturing facility that was in violation of state regulations. Lots of cancer cases.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Flash (here)
Now, that global warming comes from our activities or from the sun or from a new place we are passing through in the universe becomes irrelevant if we have to protect our specie against global warming consequences.

As with diseases of the body, so with diseases of the planet.

The better one understands the true underlying mechanisms and causes of the disease, then the better will one's remedies be.

For example, if global warming is primarily caused by petroleum based energy and chemical industries and uses, then the mechanisms and solutions will be quite different than they would be if global warming is primarily caused by changes in solar system activity.

I suspect that we were seeing above on this thread an energized polarization of people (a favorite tactic of the deep state, in my conspiratorial mind set) between (1) those who observe the grave harm being done to our bodies, our families, our society, our environment, and the life and planet around us, and (2) those who are being harmed by the "solutions" and "cures" being imposed on us to remedy these harms, or who doubt the validity of proposed analysis and offered solutions.

What if the grave harms that we each observe, to ourselves and to life on this planet, are quite real?

What if we are being sold false narratives as to the true causes of those harms?

What if these false narratives are being used to cover up more grievous harms to humanity and to life on this planet?

What if those false narratives are being used to justify false remedies?

What if those false remedies cause us and this planet yet more harm?

What if the polarization that this creates, between (1) those who know first hand and feel deeply these harms, and (2) those who know first hand that the primary remedies being sold us are as fraudulent and harmful as chemotherapy or vaccines ... what if this polarization intrudes on our healthy discussion and better shared understanding of what is really going on?

What if that better understanding is the key to a better future for humanity and for this planet?

How would we conduct a public conversation on these matters if such an understanding was such a key?

[Didgevillage]

"Global warming" is a hoax and a multi-million dollar business.
Scientists, like David Attenborough, can be bought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuudPum21nE

Yes, the Holocene has ended. What's next? Ice Age.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Joe (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

The ONLY solution is for each of us to stop supporting these companies. Buy a bike, live local, live simple, the only way to take power from these corporations is to find ways to stop giving them power. It will need a critical mass to have any real impact so we all need to talk about this and not sweep it under the rug because someone doesn't like the speaker of whatnot.

I completely agree with you about this statement. Unfortunately, my local “environmental activists” refuse to compromise with me. They hold dogmatic beliefs about CO2 and methane being pollutants and driving climate change - they won’t agree to local and simple living without also penalizing CO2 and methane producers. (i.e. people like David Suzuki)

Just to be extra clear about the danger of including CO2 and methane in any regulatory or political solution - CO2 and methane are natural products of breathing and digestion (human life). One doesn’t have to be very creative to realize how utterly evil and nefarious that kind of legislation could be. It is not a stretch to see how the totalitarian tiptoe would be used to eventually legislate population control (eugenics-another popular topic with my “environmental activists”, but they prefer to call it “overpopulation” ). Grrrr, the agenda is so evil, and most local activists are oblivious to the wider agenda.

I totally see your view, and understand it. But ... I think that just because there is conflation and confusion around what attributes to what poison, and how those poisons effect the earth and its precious life, (our planet is the only thing for maybe a trillion miles or more in any direction (that we know of) that actually has Life on it -- it IS special), doesn't mean we should look the other way or believe out of despair that we cannot do anything about it. In fact, the way I see it, it means we should be more focused on driving the discussion to "what can we do ourselves that we know will make a difference" instead of "well carbon tax is just another tax grab so obviously there's nothing wrong with the environment" -- which is a very prevalent attitude.

Just because governments won't or can't do what is needed, just because industry won't or can't do what is needed, doesn't mean we should lash out against people who genuinely just feel a massive connection to the spirit of nature and the pain being felt. This is happening right now. What we need to do is guide the dialogue to "what can we do personally?" -- political bias, "taxes", corporate interference, don't even need to be a part of that conversation.

And thanks for discussing specific points with a bit of thought out reasoning without just parroting some propaganda I've already heard.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Paul (here)
...
What if these false narratives are being used to cover up more grievous harms to humanity and to life on this planet?
...

When the concern over environmental toxins, airborn and food based carcinogens, massive destruction of vital rainforests for meat farming reasons, massive oil spills, etc. was entirely replaced with a single concern "carbon", then the misdirection has had the effect it likely was intended to have in the first place.

I'd wager the intended effect (by some of the players) was to take eyes entirely off those valid concerns above and replace it with a concern that could a) be dismissed as not provable, and b) would cause divide so that people would attack each other instead of the originators (some pf the "players" I referred to)

So it looks like its working, as no one seems to care about drowning in poisons and pollution now that "carbon" has stolen the entire show ... as I suspect was intended.

We need to stop falling for all the BS - not just the part that they could care less if we fall for or not, while embracing the part they wanted us to embrace. The part that takes our eyes off the real and immediate problems.

[Constance]

Posted by Paul (here)
I suspect that we were seeing above on this thread an energized polarization of people (a favorite tactic of the deep state, in my conspiratorial mind set) between (1) those who observe the grave harm being done to our bodies, our families, our society, our environment, and the life and planet around us, and (2) those who are being harmed by the "solutions" and "cures" being imposed on us to remedy these harms, or who doubt the validity of proposed analysis and offered solutions.

What if the grave harms that we each observe, to ourselves and to life on this planet, are quite real?

What if we are being sold false narratives as to the true causes of those harms?

What if these false narratives are being used to cover up more grievous harms to humanity and to life on this planet?

What if those false narratives are being used to justify false remedies?

What if those false remedies cause us and this planet yet more harm?

What if the polarization that this creates, between (1) those who know first hand and feel deeply these harms, and (2) those who know first hand that the primary remedies being sold us are as fraudulent and harmful as chemotherapy or vaccines ... what if this polarization intrudes on our healthy discussion and better shared understanding of what is really going on?

What if that better understanding is the key to a better future for humanity and for this planet?

How would we conduct a public conversation on these matters if such an understanding was such a key?

Right on point there Paul. I like how you are thinking about this. How do we conduct a public conversation if such an understanding was such a key?

In the words of Einstein, what I think is that "We cannot solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created them."

If we are to have any chance of succeeding in this business, it feels as if we need to find another way, maybe even a way that has never been thought of before to start this process.

For the longest time, we've had all the biggest, best and brightest minds working on all of this and yet despite all our best and current efforts, things are only getting worse and not better.
Despite all the information we have, we have been unable to form a clear concensus around what is really happening.
As John Naisbitt once said, "We are drowning in information but starved for knowledge".

The issue that we have is that people have not been ready, willing or able to, up until now, to set aside anything that we cannot agree upon or do not find relevant - and seek to truly understand what it is that we want for ourselves and each other.

[Justplain]

Ok, if you want research that debunks climate change and CO2 levels fake science, then here you go. As well, Flash has asked for lifestyle alternatives, and here are some.

1) 'Climate Change' claims refuted:

a) Carbon Dioxide Levels

Carbon Dioxide levels in the past have been much higher than now. Scientists also note that geologically speaking, the Earth is currently in a “CO2 famine” and that the geologic record reveals that ice ages have occurred when CO2 was at 2000 ppm to as high as 8000ppm. In addition, peer-reviewed studies have documented that there have been temperatures similar to the present day on Earth when carbon dioxide was up to twenty times higher than today’s levels. And, a peer-reviewed study this year found that the present day carbon dioxide level of 400 ppm was exceeded — without any human influence — 12,750 years ago when CO2 may have reached up to 425 ppm.

http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/05/...pecial-report/


b) Temperature and Climate Forecasting Errors

Here's a short (14 min.) take from an hour interview with one of the leading research experts in the world who identifies that the climate prediction computer models are faulty, and that the best one, Russian, is not used because it doesn't give the desired results. This short clip misses the part where he tells us that the scientists have to produce the desired results or they lose their funding because the government is the only ones interested in this research.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/58516671...#sp=show-clips


2) Independent Living:

a) Foam Cement is “the BEST building material in the world.”

“It is an ultra light masonry product weighing only 1/5 of the weight of ordinary concrete,” “It is composed of 1 part water, 1 part cement (which is powdered or ground limestone), 1 part non toxic dish soap. The detergent is foamed using air from a compressor and a pump or motor to agitate the mixture (I use a conventional drill and paint mixer to blend it all together and it works fine). The expansion of trapped materials results in ”air” or oxygen molecules which comprise the majority of the material (I believe close to 80%) upon expansion.”

“it’s fire proof, water proof, insulating, bulletproof, earthquake proof, hurricane and monsoon proof, impervious to insects, rodents provides acoustic insulation and is 100% free of toxic of harmful substances, which makes it 100% biodegradable and completely recyclable. It is all natural and produces no by products. Also, as if it weren’t’ enough, it won’t rot, rust, corrode, warp under cold or heat or otherwise decompose in at least 30 years for my home so far.”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=llsQL2bPWqY


b) Hempcrete homes are a good use for industrial cannibis:

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/b...hemp-1.3872979

c) Urban farming:

The Dervaes' urban homestead is sustainable and dense. They grow and raise 400 varieties of vegetables, fruits, and edible flowers that amount to about 6,000 pounds of food a year, enough to feed the family with surplus left over to sell. Fresh eggs from chickens round out their diet.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qJAnBGHhjAc

[AutumnW]

Posted by Didgevillage (here)
"Global warming" is a hoax and a multi-million dollar business.
Scientists, like David Attenborough, can be bought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuudPum21nE

Yes, the Holocene has ended. What's next? Ice Age.

Global warming hoax hoax perpetuated by multi trillion dollar oil and big banking industry. It's likely multi causal but we are playing a very large role. LOVE carbon taxes.

[Constance]

Posted by Joe (here)
I have been working on this problem for the last 10 years, and outside of “let’s get government to legislate our problems away”, I get no response when it’s time to actually do anything other than something that is beneficial for the individual. Zero collaboration. And that’s why I have concluded this is a generational problem - it will take strategic planning of two to three generations in advance to see any effective change for the better, and likely not until people are really suffering.

So yes, I have homeschooled; taught, designed and practiced permaculture and sustainable living, researched and experienced community living. And the number of people who understand the problem and are willing to tackle it through action = zero

So I’m having some trouble taking any of you seriously.

I have used the quote from Einstein myself many times. I believe it, but it’s just more words. What action do you propose to generate real change?

I have many ideas of my own, but why share until there is the intelligence and wisdom to actually influence real change. Until then I’m resigned to do my best as an individual to set an example as best as I can - it’s a sad solitary existence but I just don’t see the level of commitment from this group or anything others I’ve been a part of.

How many here participate because of its entertainment value - we like talking about ufo’s and all things paranormal, etc., but is that it?

Maybe in 20-50 years (generations) minimum, in my way of thinking, there will be the ability to start reversing the damage. But I think even that is being optimistic. We are much more likely being in a lockdown AI artificial construct by then.

There was a fun sounding Avalon meetup in Nevada. But aside from entertainment value, what was accomplished? Any strategic planning and/or rituals setting anything remotely approaching the annual Bilderberg meetings?

Who will rise to the challenge to do more than talk?

People need to be willing, able, have the capacity and have the capability to respond.

This has been my call to action for about the last decade . I'm beginning to sound like a broken record which means that my call to action might not be relevant to anyone! This is important to note because it means that if what I have to say is not relevant, it means that I need to go back to the drawing board.

We gather together the largest round table the earth has ever seen and work together on the overall solution to humanities plight. But in order to do this, we need to first be able to agree on what direction we want to take, otherwise, where are we heading? So in order for us to agree on which direction we need to take, we need to firstly work out what we want for ourselves and each other. The common ground, the common-passion if you like.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Constance (here)
we need to firstly work out what we want for ourselves and each other. The common ground, the common-passion if you like.

What we want ... and what we have, what is true about the circumstances and world we find ourselves sharing.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Joe (here)
I have been working on this problem for the last 10 years, and outside of “let’s get government to legislate our problems away”, I get no response when it’s time to actually do anything other than something that is beneficial for the individual. Zero collaboration. And that’s why I have concluded this is a generational problem - it will take strategic planning of two to three generations in advance to see any effective change for the better, and likely not until people are really suffering.

Maybe in 20-50 years (generations) minimum, in my way of thinking, there will be the ability to start reversing the damage. But I think even that is being optimistic.

Hi Joe,

You can't change others, so getting frustrated when they don't change is futile and only detrimental to yourself. It may take 20 years to get the proper awareness, yes. But it may take 100 if we all give up with poor attitudes.

What I find helps people to change is to not try to change them, but just merely and consistently share what you do and why it gives you benefit / satisfaction, with others. If you do it right, you'll pique someone's curiosity and then the seed will start to grow. You can't shove saplings down people's throats - they will not accept that, but if you can get in just one tiny seed, you never know when that seed will start to grow within them. This is how the world will change - force doesn't work, and some time will be needed.

Keep up the good fight!


I agree that conflating the carbon argument with any environmental concern is detrimental to progress, but it is why I often write stern sounding posts to make distinct again that it doesn't matter what one thinks about "carbon" or "climate change" - the world is getting in pretty rough shape due to humans in so many areas, and no one can deny that.

I'm not the biggest fan of Schwarzenegger the governer, but he had an excellent speech trying to highlight the same - about how the real problem isn't whether climate is heating or cooling, the real problem is the distraction that argument applies while mass destruction continues on in other ways.

For a conservative, he had a pretty appropriate view on global and local environmental issues. That's a quality I like to see in a conservative politician.

[Didgevillage]

Late Professor Bob Carter (James Cook University, Australia) said :Saying "CO2 causes global warming" is like saying "Lung cancer causes smoking."
He found that throughout long geological history, there was always a slight increase in CO2 in the atmosphere (long before industrialization) after a warming, not the other way round.
He was a geologist, so he knew what he was talking about. Not like David Attenborough or somebody whose speciality is something else.
Climate has ALWAYS been changing, period.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Didgevillage (here)
Late Professor Bob Carter (James Cook University, Australia) said :Saying "CO2 causes global warming" is like saying "Lung cancer causes smoking."
He found that throughout long geological history, there was always a slight increase in CO2 in the atmosphere (long before industrialization) after a warming, not the other way round.
He was a geologist, so he knew what he was talking about. Not like David Attenborough or somebody whose speciality is something else.
Climate has ALWAYS been changing, period.

And exactly to my point above (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1285499)... seems like a good reason to dismiss the destruction of our planet, doesn't it? This is how well it works - you can spell it out right in front of people's faces and they still will redirect the conversation to a pointless argument in dismissiveness of all the harm that is being caused our planet.

[Didgevillage]

Global warming/cooling and environmental pollution are apples and oranges.

It is the human arrogance that it is the master of this planet and can change it anyway to suit its needs.
It is actually the other way round. Humans may have been give the task of a care-taker, but not the master.

It is worthwhile to note that "global warming" was a perfect excuse to build nuclear power plants, the worst destroyer of the environment. Can you say Fukushima?

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Didgevillage (here)
Global warming/cooling and environmental pollution are apples and oranges.

Indeed they are. Here's my point again. You can't discuss oranges without everyone instantly and often inappropriately turning the argument to apples - like you just did - ignored oranges to spew about apples. They've got you and everyone else by the balls and no one even realizes it. Its a program that runs automatically, without the victim even being aware what they are doing.

[onawah]

Bumping this It couldn't be more clear. Thanks DeDukshyn.

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Paul (here)
...
What if these false narratives are being used to cover up more grievous harms to humanity and to life on this planet?
...

When the concern over environmental toxins, airborn and food based carcinogens, massive destruction of vital rainforests for meat farming reasons, massive oil spills, etc. was entirely replaced with a single concern "carbon", then the misdirection has had the effect it likely was intended to have in the first place.

I'd wager the intended effect (by some of the players) was to take eyes entirely off those valid concerns above and replace it with a concern that could a) be dismissed as not provable, and b) would cause divide so that people would attack each other instead of the originators (some pf the "players" I referred to)

So it looks like its working, as no one seems to care about drowning in poisons and pollution now that "carbon" has stolen the entire show ... as I suspect was intended.

We need to stop falling for all the BS - not just the part that they could care less if we fall for or not, while embracing the part they wanted us to embrace. The part that takes our eyes off the real and immediate problems.

[onawah]

Speaking for myself (and I suspect for other Avalonians of a certain age as well, though they are certainly able to speak for themselves), when I was younger and fitter, I was actively participating in things like intentional community, organic gardening, living close to the land, etc.
Now, at 70 years of age, the best I can do is network as much credible and useful information that I can about various critical issues, in hopes that Avalon is read enough and influential enough to do more than "preach to the choir", but to reach people who need access to such information.
If I was younger and fitter, I would be living in an intentional, sustainable community, and doing what I could to help that movement flourish.
It feels to me like organized governments are failures and Thomas Jefferson may have rightly foreseen a future, when the current paradigm collapses, where most people are living not in cities, but in more agrarian communities.
I think cities are not a healthy environment for living things, and humans are not grounded, balanced or even sane when they have lost their connection to Nature.

Posted by Joe (here)
I have been working on this problem for the last 10 years, and outside of “let’s get government to legislate our problems away”, I get no response when it’s time to actually do anything other than something that is beneficial for the individual. Zero collaboration. And that’s why I have concluded this is a generational problem - it will take strategic planning of two to three generations in advance to see any effective change for the better, and likely not until people are really suffering.

So yes, I have homeschooled; taught, designed and practiced permaculture and sustainable living, researched and experienced community living. And the number of people who understand the problem and are willing to tackle it through action = zero

So I’m having some trouble taking any of you seriously.

I have used the quote from Einstein myself many times. I believe it, but it’s just more words. What action do you propose to generate real change?

I have many ideas of my own, but why share until there is the intelligence and wisdom to actually influence real change. Until then I’m resigned to do my best as an individual to set an example as best as I can - it’s a sad solitary existence but I just don’t see the level of commitment from this group or anything others I’ve been a part of.

How many here participate because of its entertainment value - we like talking about ufo’s and all things paranormal, etc., but is that it?

Maybe in 20-50 years (generations) minimum, in my way of thinking, there will be the ability to start reversing the damage. But I think even that is being optimistic. We are much more likely being in a lockdown AI artificial construct by then.

There was a fun sounding Avalon meetup in Nevada. But aside from entertainment value, what was accomplished? Any strategic planning and/or rituals setting anything remotely approaching the annual Bilderberg meetings?

Who will rise to the challenge to do more than talk?

[Didgevillage]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Didgevillage (here)
Global warming/cooling and environmental pollution are apples and oranges.

Indeed they are. Here's my point again. You can't discuss oranges without everyone instantly and often inappropriately turning the argument to apples - like you just did - ignored oranges to spew about apples. They've got you and everyone else by the balls and no one even realizes it. Its a program that runs automatically, without the victim even being aware what they are doing.

It is an assumption that human activities --- be it industrialization or cows belching --- cause global warming.

Climate always changes while chemtrails and HAARP will probably precipitate the arrival of Ice Age glacial.

Greenland was warm and green about 1,000 years ago and Vikings settled there and lived there for generations, doing agriculture (with cows), until the earth climate cooled and the Viking descendants were forced back to Norway.

The Industrial Revolution may have turned major cities in England black, but it's a child play compared with the radioactive pollution caused by the nuclear industry, under the mantra of "clean energy" "zero CO2 emission" "carbon footprint" blah blah

[pyrangello]

The apples / oranges adaptation is a good one. One the one hand, do we cause large earthquakes,volcanic eruptions, tsunamis, or have hand in the permafrost melting from below to the surface. Nope.

On the other hand do we fail as good stewards of taking care of the earth? Pollution in the ocean, spraying of chemicals in the sky and earth, the burning of the amazon rain forest, the nuclear pollution and disasters , the use of chemical, atomic, or conventional weapons , and the steadfast movement of staying dependent on fossil fuels. We are getting a Grade A for that. A for the Axxhole award.

I am encouraged at the new efforts being put forward from the younger generation and the amount of people that want to put forward an initiative to clean up this mess and start preserving what a beautiful place this is. Technology and young innovative thinking may be the savior combined with the dying off of the old narrow minded ego driven for greed at any costs thinking individuals in power who thrive on that position as that mentality has become an obsolete way of thinking and is unsustainable .

If there was a time for the United Nations to do something , my suggestion is that they put together an approach of enforcement thru out the global community.

1) Compile a list of the top 10 countries polluting the oceans and set up a global initiative for managed landfill sites.
2) Put a complete halt to the burning of the amazon rain forest now and create programs for alternative means of income in these areas even if we have to subsidize this for a while.
3)Embrace those with ideas of cleaning the oceans and act with reinforcements.
4)Put together a plan to contain the Fukoshima reactor as was done with Chernobyl by some 19 countries in the newest containment vessel.
5) Start a long term plan of shutting down all nuclear reactors, it takes 40 years of constant cooling even if a reactor is shut down FYI. And shift to alternative sources or less hazardous.
6)Broadcast every 3 months the progress being made in all areas of this initiative and set up a fund where donations can be accepted on a worldwide scale. You may be surprised.

So many of us on this earth do not want to leave behind a mess for future generations, we just need to have a point of entry to focus all of our energy and resources to make this happen.

And for something to really contemplate here is a 3 minute narrative by Charlton Heston that really gives food for thought- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO-LvxMscYg