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    Canada Avalon Member Richard S.'s Avatar
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    Default Astrology

    Hello,

    I am looking for information about astrology, but there is so much, I don't know where to begin...

    I am sure Avalon members can point me in a good direction.

    Please help!

    TIA

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    Default Re: Astrology

    There is a website called Astrodienst which has good resources for the beginner, plus you can get your own natal chart, along with current transits, if you know your birth time. You can also order in depth analyses of your chart from the very good astrologers the site uses, if you want to. In terms of books, I would recommend anything by Liz green and/ or Howard Sasportas. Both have a somewhat Jungian approach and address their topics with incredible depth. Happy exploring!

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    Default Re: Astrology

    It is a huge and almost unmanagable business.

    There are many different schools/approaches. One of them is „Psychological Astrology“ (Arroyo f. e.). It is developed from humanistic- and transpersonal psychology and includes Jung‘s Archetypes. Years ago I started with Stephen Arroyo‘s book „Astrology, Karma and Transformation“ and with some easy-to-read books by Tracy Marks.

    Before I even looked into a Radix I was fascinated by exploring the ten qualities/principles (sun, moon and the eight planets). I tried to discover and identify them in peoples appearances, behavior, in nature, in all kind of situations and was looking for analogies everywhere. That was fun.

    Astrology is a great tool for self-exploration I liked Liz Greene, too.

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    Default Re: Astrology

    Marc Jones wrote a seminal work on astrological types based on planetary groupings. Good read.
    Michael Meyer is another person who knows his subject well. He has (for me) the best birth chart form. Shows planetary aspects well. You want a chart form that has lots of space in the center for aspects. This man really knows his stuff!
    Investigate which house system an astrologer uses. The old system still in common usage (Placidus) is time based only. The Koch system is time and space based, so I use that. Very popular in California.
    The best aspect interpretations appear in a book by Grant Lewi, Heaven Knows What.
    When charting aspects, don't forget division by 5 (quintile) and by 7 (septile). Many astrologers leave out those two aspects because they don't know how to interpret them. Give it a try. Sometimes a person's chart pops after including these two aspects.
    And always remember - as above, so below.
    Second the Liz Greene rec.
    Astrology is a fascinating subject. So much that we do not know or have lost over time. Alchemists use astrology to time the gathering of materials and to start a procedure. Happy exploring!

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    Default Re: Astrology

    Quote Posted by Lovespot (here)
    Hello,
    I am looking for information about astrology, but there is so much, I don't know where to begin...
    There are 2 types of astrology, Sidereal and Tropical. Don't get them confused because they are very different. Vedic (Indian) astrology is sidereal, the type often preferred for global predictions. Your "daily horoscope" is Tropical, often preferred for personality analysis. Probably best to stick with Tropical as it's the most common in the West, and just forget about predictions.

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    Default Re: Astrology

    I have become an adherent of Sidereal Astrology, and, one thing I like about it, is that it is a deliberate clock with a definite starting point at the death of Krishna.

    The difference with Tropical is motion (precession) of the equinoxes, or equinoctical points, which is why those zodiac signs do not match the sky. Vedic Astrology (Jyotir) is just physical.

    There was a time, physically, when the equinoxes matched the Royal Stars, and the Pole Star was Thuban in Draco. When examined in the light of Ezekiel and so forth, I believe Astrology is talking about something other than a horoscope. Placed together with Alchemy you have "As Above, So Below", or Natural Science, which Isaac Newton was into. But the more I look at Tropical Astrology, the less I "get it", and it makes more sense to think of an analog clock where the fast hand is the Moon and the Slow Hand is Jupiter, which is Sidereal. It perhaps has a few conflicting ideas in various schools, but, overall, the system is very elegant and profound.

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    Default Re: Astrology

    Re Astrodienst, you can get your basic chart there plus forecasts for daily, weekly and longer time periods, plus comparisons of 2 different charts for compatibility, etc. and all for FREE! And if you want more, of course,it's available for a price.
    Personally, I resonate a lot with the reports from Aussie astrologist Ang Stoic, and there is a thread on Avalon with some of his work here (starting with the most recent):
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1288949
    Quote Posted by Violet3 (here)
    There is a website called Astrodienst which has good resources for the beginner, plus you can get your own natal chart, along with current transits, if you know your birth time. You can also order in depth analyses of your chart from the very good astrologers the site uses, if you want to. In terms of books, I would recommend anything by Liz green and/ or Howard Sasportas. Both have a somewhat Jungian approach and address their topics with incredible depth. Happy exploring!
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    Default Re: Astrology

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    I have become an adherent of Sidereal Astrology, and, one thing I like about it, is that it is a deliberate clock with a definite starting point at the death of Krishna.

    The difference with Tropical is motion (precession) of the equinoxes, or equinoctical points, which is why those zodiac signs do not match the sky. Vedic Astrology (Jyotir) is just physical.

    There was a time, physically, when the equinoxes matched the Royal Stars, and the Pole Star was Thuban in Draco. When examined in the light of Ezekiel and so forth, I believe Astrology is talking about something other than a horoscope. Placed together with Alchemy you have "As Above, So Below", or Natural Science, which Isaac Newton was into. But the more I look at Tropical Astrology, the less I "get it", and it makes more sense to think of an analog clock where the fast hand is the Moon and the Slow Hand is Jupiter, which is Sidereal. It perhaps has a few conflicting ideas in various schools, but, overall, the system is very elegant and profound.
    Before the US Nov 8 2016 presidential election, virtually all the astrologers and psychics predicted Hillary would win. The only one on youtube or Coast radio I know of BEFORE the election who predicted Trump would win was Joni Patry, a Vedic astrologer.

    Nevertheless, I believe Tropical Astrology is the accurate one for personality classification. The sidereal suns signs are way off from my lifetime of observing and accurately guessing people's sun signs. In fact, they should use the 12 Tropical signs to name the months, for more accuracy. March was named for Mars, which rules Aries, which SHOULD be the first day of the year, beginning on the 1st degree of Aries, the first day of Spring, NOT starting back in Pisces. But alas, the Roman emperors politicized the months depending on whim, and we have the screwed up system of 12 months that are shifted about 10 degrees off.

    As to prediction in EITHER Astrology, I think it's mostly luck and intuition. As the Bible contains enough contradiction to prove any point, so does Astrology. I believe the planets can affect the masses, but not an individual in any different proportion from the masses. I believe that a CURRENT aspect to one's NATAL planet is just silly, since that position no longer truly exists to be aspected by anything.

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    Default Re: Astrology

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)

    As to prediction in EITHER Astrology, I think it's mostly luck and intuition. As the Bible contains enough contradiction to prove any point, so does Astrology. I believe the planets can affect the masses, but not an individual in any different proportion from the masses. I believe that a CURRENT aspect to one's NATAL planet is just silly, since that position no longer truly exists to be aspected by anything.
    I am not sure about the prediction aspect. I don't think it's really the backbone of Astrology or Tarot.

    I am fairly confident in the "conditioning" aspect. In this sense, each planet has a delusional or disturbing role, which is to be lived out by the native until figuring out how to improve it.

    Here is how it looks in the western system. Earth has the same symbol for Antimony--the Globus Cruciger:




    Holy Roman Empire version

    So this does represent earthly rule by a spiritual person. However, as antimony, this does not represent the earth element, it is Mundus, or any and all elements, particularly as Magnesia Gebri, it is watery fire, a compound. It is the ingathering of spiritual forces, to be offered to what?

    Well, if you check the glyphs, there is one that properly fits on top of Globus Cruciger--Copper Mirror of Venus or Ankh. The basic meaning here is that "earth" or world of form has been turned off and offered to the formless (Venus). If merged, the resulting glyph is two circles joined by a cross.

    And so in Alchemy, this is the role of Antimony, to pass a purified offering from earth and attempt to merge in the formless. A simple view is right there in the alchemical Squared Circle:





    There you have a small circle or man, the microcosm, inside the Square of Earth, or four gross elements. This is the same in eastern or western systems. This in turn is within a triangle, or three formless elements. Therefor if the squared earth works with the triangular Venus, that is how it reaches the greater circle or macrocosm or infinite mind or true existence.

    If we consider the microcosm or mortal person inside the square, is in Space with Four Elements, then you understand the basic concept of Eastern meditation or Pancha Jina or Five Buddhas. The difference is, instead of meaning the Holy Roman Empire, experiments with dangerous chemicals, or the many form-related tables of rocks and flowers or personal predictions one would get from most western literature, the Jinas are psychological.

    The Greek system is a cognate out of Indian but is unclear or degraded. Tropical precession was introduced ca. 150 when the equinox happened to be in the right spot in Aries. Or, it was known to happen, but nobody was using math to make abstract signs follow it around. The Vedic system physically divides the circle into Mansions of the Moon as one of its fundamental meanings. It considers Nodes of the Moon to be quite potent.

    This is why I believe Astrology and Alchemy are related and both are veils on the Eastern system, it was orginally mostly a translation. We don't mean a Catholic church institution, but, if catholic means "universal" then Universal Monarch is one way we would describe someone who has harnessed and submitted all the outer and lower forces. It is all symbolic because it is personal and internal, and all the terms like Jina or Conqueror, or Pashupati Lord of Animals, all indicate this mentality and submitting it to purity or formlessness or the Triangle. In this sense, we could describe three Wheels of Time, Outer (Astrological), Inner (bodily or Alchemical), and Secret (mental or psychological). In essence, there is a related set of challenges to each.

    Alchemy is based on Three Primary Substances, Four Gross Elements, and Seven Planets. Antimony or that individual who has succeeded with a psychological process as described, will be received by the heavens, so to speak, by Venus. This is the replacement of Lunar forces by Fire. If one just looks at the relatively simple symbols of the Orb and the Squared Circle, I believe they are speaking to something identical to Eastern doctrine, but over there, not everyone has been killed as a heretic or witch for thinking so. If seen in this way, it means a total individual transformation, and an arduous spiritual path. The details about planets, stars, etc., are to help explain how to make the Earth Orb or Antimony function. Nothing fake works in this, such as making a piece of jewelry based on a throne of slaughter and perhaps hereditarily passing it along. If used publicly, this system would require earthly rulers to continually re-qualify based from the Triangle and also to issue Jubilee.

    Despite the fact that the apparent or known version is quite fake, I would say the correct or inner one is very real.
    Last edited by shaberon; 4th May 2019 at 03:08.

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    Default Re: Astrology

    I think Susan Miller's Astrology Zone has very accurate forecasts - they are published on her website every month for each sign, and are free. https://www.astrologyzone.com/ You could compare your work with hers and see if you both agree.

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    Default Re: Astrology

    Quote Posted by Sunny (here)
    I think Susan Miller's Astrology Zone has very accurate forecasts - they are published on her website every month for each sign, and are free. https://www.astrologyzone.com/ You could compare your work with hers and see if you both agree.
    You bring up another interesting point. You're supposed to use the Rising Sign (which gives you the House positions) to predict, but since most people don't know their rising sign, public predictions are always based on the Sun Sign. So any accuracy in a Sun Sign prediction is just evidence that astrology does NOT work!

    Yes, I know Miller and others claim to have a work-around for not knowing the actual Rising Sign and House positions, but that's really bogus, and speaks more to the lack of honesty of those astrologers -- "We can't let absence of crucial information get in the way of our income!"

    I've read Miller's site for years, and never found it particularly accurate or useful. Hint: you have to read it ONLY at the END of the month, not the beginning, to see if it was accurate. Try that and see what you think of her predictions.

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    Default Re: Astrology

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    You bring up another interesting point. You're supposed to use the Rising Sign (which gives you the House positions) to predict, but since most people don't know their rising sign, public predictions are always based on the Sun Sign. So any accuracy in a Sun Sign prediction is just evidence that astrology does NOT work!
    Even at that, there are several House systems used in Tropical astrology: various sizes, Ascendant set to zero, or set as the mid-point, etc. Sidereal astrology has far less of this disputation.

    The only answer I can come up with as to "why" a Tropical system, is so the equinox will be perpetually fixed around March 21. It is a way to make the calendar names and numbers "stick" to the seasons. Sort of like Mussolini making the trains run on time. It suits man's convenience or arbitrary classification, even if it does not agree with nature. Moreover, it is so Julius and Augustus Caesar can displace months 7-10 (September to December) so they will permanently stick to the high summer, July and August. It would definitely confuse Americans if July were somehow to happen in the winter.

    The Sidereal system considers the Ascendant and stops there. There is no Mid-heaven and so forth.

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    Default Re: Astrology

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    The only answer I can come up with as to "why" a Tropical system, is so the equinox will be perpetually fixed around March 21. It is a way to make the calendar names and numbers "stick" to the seasons. Sort of like Mussolini making the trains run on time. It suits man's convenience or arbitrary classification, even if it does not agree with nature. Moreover, it is so Julius and Augustus Caesar can displace months 7-10 (September to December) so they will permanently stick to the high summer, July and August. It would definitely confuse Americans if July were somehow to happen in the winter.
    The problem with the sidereal system is that it does not reflect "ground truth." The tropical system starts with the first day of spring, and has nothing to do with any stars out in the galaxy. The "stars" in tropical astrology are the planets in the solar system as seen from Earth. Obviously, when it started, the signs lined up with the constellations, but have since shifted. That does not mean the signs should shift along with the constellations, because tropical astrology was never based on those constellations. The fanciful names given to a handful of stars indicates that the astrology sign came first and the constellations were named after them.

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Even at that, there are several House systems used in Tropical astrology: various sizes, Ascendant set to zero, or set as the mid-point, etc. Sidereal astrology has far less of this disputation.
    I see nothing wrong with the Placidus system which takes latitude into account when figuring the de facto (rather than theoretical) size of the houses.

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    Default Re: Astrology

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)

    As to prediction in EITHER Astrology, I think it's mostly luck and intuition. As the Bible contains enough contradiction to prove any point, so does Astrology. I believe the planets can affect the masses, but not an individual in any different proportion from the masses. I believe that a CURRENT aspect to one's NATAL planet is just silly, since that position no longer truly exists to be aspected by anything.
    I am not sure about the prediction aspect. I don't think it's really the backbone of Astrology or Tarot.

    I am fairly confident in the "conditioning" aspect. In this sense, each planet has a delusional or disturbing role, which is to be lived out by the native until figuring out how to improve it.

    Here is how it looks in the western system. Earth has the same symbol for Antimony--the Globus Cruciger:




    Holy Roman Empire version

    So this does represent earthly rule by a spiritual person. However, as antimony, this does not represent the earth element, it is Mundus, or any and all elements, particularly as Magnesia Gebri, it is watery fire, a compound. It is the ingathering of spiritual forces, to be offered to what?

    Well, if you check the glyphs, there is one that properly fits on top of Globus Cruciger--Copper Mirror of Venus or Ankh. The basic meaning here is that "earth" or world of form has been turned off and offered to the formless (Venus). If merged, the resulting glyph is two circles joined by a cross.

    And so in Alchemy, this is the role of Antimony, to pass a purified offering from earth and attempt to merge in the formless. A simple view is right there in the alchemical Squared Circle:





    There you have a small circle or man, the microcosm, inside the Square of Earth, or four gross elements. This is the same in eastern or western systems. This in turn is within a triangle, or three formless elements. Therefor if the squared earth works with the triangular Venus, that is how it reaches the greater circle or macrocosm or infinite mind or true existence.

    If we consider the microcosm or mortal person inside the square, is in Space with Four Elements, then you understand the basic concept of Eastern meditation or Pancha Jina or Five Buddhas. The difference is, instead of meaning the Holy Roman Empire, experiments with dangerous chemicals, or the many form-related tables of rocks and flowers or personal predictions one would get from most western literature, the Jinas are psychological.

    The Greek system is a cognate out of Indian but is unclear or degraded. Tropical precession was introduced ca. 150 when the equinox happened to be in the right spot in Aries. Or, it was known to happen, but nobody was using math to make abstract signs follow it around. The Vedic system physically divides the circle into Mansions of the Moon as one of its fundamental meanings. It considers Nodes of the Moon to be quite potent.

    This is why I believe Astrology and Alchemy are related and both are veils on the Eastern system, it was orginally mostly a translation. We don't mean a Catholic church institution, but, if catholic means "universal" then Universal Monarch is one way we would describe someone who has harnessed and submitted all the outer and lower forces. It is all symbolic because it is personal and internal, and all the terms like Jina or Conqueror, or Pashupati Lord of Animals, all indicate this mentality and submitting it to purity or formlessness or the Triangle. In this sense, we could describe three Wheels of Time, Outer (Astrological), Inner (bodily or Alchemical), and Secret (mental or psychological). In essence, there is a related set of challenges to each.

    Alchemy is based on Three Primary Substances, Four Gross Elements, and Seven Planets. Antimony or that individual who has succeeded with a psychological process as described, will be received by the heavens, so to speak, by Venus. This is the replacement of Lunar forces by Fire. If one just looks at the relatively simple symbols of the Orb and the Squared Circle, I believe they are speaking to something identical to Eastern doctrine, but over there, not everyone has been killed as a heretic or witch for thinking so. If seen in this way, it means a total individual transformation, and an arduous spiritual path. The details about planets, stars, etc., are to help explain how to make the Earth Orb or Antimony function. Nothing fake works in this, such as making a piece of jewelry based on a throne of slaughter and perhaps hereditarily passing it along. If used publicly, this system would require earthly rulers to continually re-qualify based from the Triangle and also to issue Jubilee.

    Despite the fact that the apparent or known version is quite fake, I would say the correct or inner one is very real.
    Hi Shaberon, I found your remarks very interesting though did not fully understand them. For example I get that a transformational process is symbolised as described but don't see how the Globus Criciger topped by and Ankh turns into the squared circle inside triangle and outer circle. But anyway, it's the process I'm interested in and would appreciate more comments on your view of the "correct or inner version" (of Eastern alchemy/ astrology?) and the path or process implied by it. Any reading tips would be gratefully received.

    Have you read 'Meditations on the Tarot' (published anonymously by written by Valentin Tomberg) a series of Christian Hermetic explorations of the major arcana and its teachings? Tomberg was a follower of Rudolf Steiner and later joined a Catholic order as a priest but still managed to find and illuminate his own 'path with a heart' that draws on all the hermetic arts including alchemy and astrology. My brain gets blown by every one of his pages.

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    Default Re: Astrology

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by Sunny (here)
    I think Susan Miller's Astrology Zone has very accurate forecasts - they are published on her website every month for each sign, and are free. https://www.astrologyzone.com/ You could compare your work with hers and see if you both agree.
    You bring up another interesting point. You're supposed to use the Rising Sign (which gives you the House positions) to predict, but since most people don't know their rising sign, public predictions are always based on the Sun Sign. So any accuracy in a Sun Sign prediction is just evidence that astrology does NOT work!

    Yes, I know Miller and others claim to have a work-around for not knowing the actual Rising Sign and House positions, but that's really bogus, and speaks more to the lack of honesty of those astrologers -- "We can't let absence of crucial information get in the way of our income!"

    I've read Miller's site for years, and never found it particularly accurate or useful. Hint: you have to read it ONLY at the END of the month, not the beginning, to see if it was accurate. Try that and see what you think of her predictions.
    She recommends that her readers who know their rising sign read for both their sun sign and the rising sign. Which seems to work fine.

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    Default Re: Astrology

    Quote Posted by Sunny (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by Sunny (here)
    I think Susan Miller's Astrology Zone has very accurate forecasts - they are published on her website every month for each sign, and are free. https://www.astrologyzone.com/ You could compare your work with hers and see if you both agree.
    You bring up another interesting point. You're supposed to use the Rising Sign (which gives you the House positions) to predict, but since most people don't know their rising sign, public predictions are always based on the Sun Sign. So any accuracy in a Sun Sign prediction is just evidence that astrology does NOT work!

    Yes, I know Miller and others claim to have a work-around for not knowing the actual Rising Sign and House positions, but that's really bogus, and speaks more to the lack of honesty of those astrologers -- "We can't let absence of crucial information get in the way of our income!"

    I've read Miller's site for years, and never found it particularly accurate or useful. Hint: you have to read it ONLY at the END of the month, not the beginning, to see if it was accurate. Try that and see what you think of her predictions.
    She recommends that her readers who know their rising sign read for both their sun sign and the rising sign. Which seems to work fine.
    So which is it? If the calculations are made for the rising sign, why should they work for someone without that rising sign, with houses in completely different positions? And if they do work, doesn't that mean the predictions are designed to apply to anyone, of any rising sign?

    But you're right, it seems to work fine. As long as you read it at the beginning of the month and help create the vaguely predicted future. But if you only read it at the end of the month, it tells a different story. And the story it tells is: the stars very slightly influence the masses, and you as an individual create your own reality, regardless of what those stars say.

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    Default Re: Astrology

    Quote Posted by Violet3 (here)

    Hi Shaberon, I found your remarks very interesting though did not fully understand them. For example I get that a transformational process is symbolised as described but don't see how the Globus Criciger topped by and Ankh turns into the squared circle inside triangle and outer circle. But anyway, it's the process I'm interested in and would appreciate more comments on your view of the "correct or inner version" (of Eastern alchemy/ astrology?) and the path or process implied by it. Any reading tips would be gratefully received.

    Have you read 'Meditations on the Tarot' (published anonymously by written by Valentin Tomberg) a series of Christian Hermetic explorations of the major arcana and its teachings? Tomberg was a follower of Rudolf Steiner and later joined a Catholic order as a priest but still managed to find and illuminate his own 'path with a heart' that draws on all the hermetic arts including alchemy and astrology. My brain gets blown by every one of his pages.
    Agreed; a process is what I would call a practice. In this case, I think the Alchemical symbol is a heavily coded version, and the King's version is like a stolen half. They have close to the same meaning, without being intended to work together or convert into each other.

    Globus Cruciger is from Astrology, and from what I can tell, the union of Earth--Venus is the integral part of the real or inner path. I guess this is supposed to be close to the Tarot's meaning, and I have been through Regardie and a few versions other than the one you mention, and then with review, I cannot find why the Golden Dawn adjusts Regulus by almost five degrees, and I think they have gone through a lot of trying to "plug something in to the Kabala" that will solve everything for them.

    Alchemy, historically, is kind of a different language, similar to witchcraft or how "eye of newt" is a mustard seed and so forth. It seems to be their own cloak on a spiritual path, to prevent censors from coming after them. So they made everything almost inscrutable. The Squared Circle is more or less an equivalent, in this language, to the Globus Cruciger of Astrology. It is the meaning which is the same across all systems: the lower or Lunar forces, four gross elements, earth, water, air, and fire, have been brought under control by the person in the center, or element of space. It is the same with Pythagoras or Ayurveda or Zen.

    If you look at Greek, Norse, Sumerian myths, etc., you will always get a sense of some kind of activity in heaven pre-creation, and have a difficult time sorting it. In the East, there were said to be several "Wars in Heaven", which refer to the buildup of matter from a latent or "stardust" state, through process of heating, expansion, cooling, contraction, making a watery planet, separating the crust, forming kingdoms of nature, and producing man by joining an intelligent animal with a Fiery Soul.

    One of the first ethereal "conflicts" concerns the Pleiades and that six mated with Agni by way of deception, but Arundhati was pure/true to her husband. These six seeds are Maya or dualistic illusion, carried into what we might call the astral plane; if nothing else, there is the intention of one pure power who is not easily found in the world of form, a Point in a Hexagram.

    Another war happened when Tara left her husband Jupiter for the Moon at a later, possibly "solar system" stage, and eventually returned.

    One of the most important myths, and another fight, is Churning of the Ocean of Nectar. This is the Nectar of Immortality, stirred by the Serpent of Eternity as a "rope" around the spine of the world as a whisk. Several products emerged from this, particularly Varuni and Sri Lakshmi. Varuni could perhaps be said to be the nectar itself, as available to a person, and Sri is Venus. This is retold as Aphrodite from the sea, Neptune. Varuni is her own Mother--Daughter and her husband is Varuna or Waters of the Deep and so Mother Varuni is Chaos--Tiamat. Chaos becomes her own daughter in the astral plane, where spiritual perception (samjna) is split, reversed, and broken into perception (samjna). So this is similar to the Kabala's increasingly inferior mirrors. One can find more and more versions that describe almost the same thing, but there is only one consistent and full explanation, Varuni.

    Most versions talk about the Churning and things like Durga as a simple battle between good and evil where the divinity kills the undesirable and we rejoice. This is not exactly what it means. For instance, the Serpent and Eagle are considered mortal enemies, so the bird always kills the snake, meaning good gets rid of evil for us. Not exactly. The Serpent is Infinity, and the Eagle is the cycles of finite time, from the Great Year of Astrology, down through the transit of Jupiter and the phases of the moon. The Eagle "kills" it because now time looks limited, finite, and conditioned, but it makes no difference how many snakes it kills, because more are always available, it cannot really be reduced or divided, in fact it will eventually swallow the bird anyway when the world system expires.

    My suggestion would be to investigate Samudra Mathan or Churning of the Ocean of Nectar, which will have various versions, generally built on common elements such as Kaustabha Jewel and Nymphs Sumbha--Rhumba. This legend will help define or identify some of the many things in the Eastern systems, but, moreover, it forms a substantial basis of either Aryan (Hindu) or Buddhist practice. In terms of an issue of Jupiter, that planet has the weakness of being an "arbitrary set of rules", whereas its important concept is Rta, or Order. Obviously, this can mean one thing when placed in the hands of a dominant institution, and something else when understood as a real, personal, or inner condition. This has something to do with why Tara left that planet for the glamorous moon and what it means to go back. This is why subtle teachings about Samudra Mathan do not necessarily agree with popular ones. In other words, it is not a good vs. evil scenario, it is an explanation of natural forces and their use in spiritual practice. It does not work without this Nectar. In our system, this more or less has the place of Antimony, if one were thinking of an Earth-Venus joining substance, or a purified offering finding a response from the other side. Ultimately Nectar becomes Mercury, the quicksilver substance, or metal of Mercury planet, and making this concoction is Alchemy in an inner or meditative way. That is probably years of dedicated work, explainable as Varuni from the original legends to the peak of practice.

    I would describe the main Eastern path I have found is really Buddha's version of Yogachara. This may seem odd, however, the advanced Kalachakra meditations are based on almost the exact same thing as Yajnawalkya Samhita. Here, Yajnawalkya re-arranges the Limbs of Yoga as known from Patanjali, gives the chakra seed syllables that we use, and describes kundalini or inner heat as based from the abdomen, not the root. These are some of the main specific ways our school is different from Hatha Yoga, among others. Yajnawalkya is perhaps most famous for Brihadaranyaka Upanisad, which is massive, but has some very good parts. For instance, he changes the Vedic "horse sacrifice" from a literal act (orthodox Jupiterian), to a symbolic meditation (inner order or Rta). Yajnawalkya was close friends with King Janaka who achieved the "Body-less" condition and had a magic daughter named Sita who is extremely important if one was to get a slightly different view of Earth and Fire elements and manifesting the energy of Arundhati. This all took place on the frontier of Nepal about a century before Buddha was born there. And so he had all that training at the level of a whole kingdom for inspiration, traded it for the life of a beggar, and later found that even this was not enough, and changed the old "forest hermit" view of enlightenment to something more complete. For the main part, Buddhism is not different from Adwaita Yogachara, except what catches me is Mahayana, or the idea and commitment of Bodhisattva, which is the most distinguishing feature. The ultimate goal is not "Liberation", but "Complete Manifestation". Nirvana as known up through Yajnawalkya's time is considered something like a temptation, the "permanently still" as compared to the "temporarily still" of meditation.

    Sita is found in the first Epic, Ramayana, which was not really authored, but written down, by Adi Kavya Valmiki or Primordial Poet who is of Jupiter. And if you dig through it, then it seems that the idea is not to "copy", but to "become" Jupiter, in other words, to gain the poet's spontaneity, eloquence, expression, to use language more telepathically or mentally and dissolve barriers. To stop telling everyone what to do, and learn ways to talk that may not have seemed possible. There is not a sentence in that story which is not magical.

    If one can figure her out as a special Earth Fire, then the later and more difficult parts will make more sense. So for instance, she is an incarnation of Lakshmi, so she immediately associates with Lakshmi emerging from the Ocean of Nectar. So it is telling us about Venus from a pre-cosmic place or higher plane, right down to Buddha's neighborhood. Lakshmi is not directly accessible, requiring preliminaries and purifications. In the old Vedic societies, different clans followed the different sages of Venus, Jupiter, etc., and their practices were different. There is one thing that has been found in common across all these lineages, called an Apri Hymn, an invocation and ritual. Even these have minor variations, but all invoke the Three Goddesses, Sarasvati, Ila, and Bhu or Bharati. These are earth goddesses. Sarasvati is almost always considered "her own thing", and the others, aspects of Lakshmi. And so if we look at Sarasvati, she almost always has a vina or lute, and this means the syllable Om. And so this is really first. I would strongly discourage anyone from trifling with Lakshmi or Varuni without this familiarity.

    Since the Five Jinas and Five Elements also match the five senses, usually the center element, Space, is associated with Sight, however, in most of the advanced teachings, it uses Sound, and this format attached to Sarasvati is how it works. None of these systems is other than an intensification of what this means.

    Part of the secret of Space as opposed to Air is Unstruck Sound, i. e., sound not produced by a means or cause. In other words, an inner Om and certain other sacred sounds. It can, of course, be reproduced via the means of a person on earth. So there is an indication more towards the "beginning" of Alchemy. If you check, "unstruck" is the translation of Anahata which is heart chakra. This I think is the actual beginning of where or how the esoteric or inner teaching begins to define itself a little differently from other general presentations of a five-element symbol. Space is heart centered and conditioned by a normally inaudible sound having a fourfold rhythm, a, u, m, silence. The human voice can, however, become a purified reflection of it. So she is Vach Devi or the Voice or Logos, the female half of Viraj, or Brahma Viraj and Vach Viraj are mind and voice at a cosmic scale. Sarasvati is totally mystical and at the same time is a scholar who would suggest one study Ramayana and Samudra Mathan, and is said to be helpful in learning arts, music, science, etc. In this case, I personally have accepted Sarasvati a very long time ago, and I would say she is as described and the cumulative result was an event. From here I would further agree that the different names of "her" are all "her", but they are different because they are different forms, and, this is not merely an artistic style, it is different realities like ice and steam. These can be "dangerous chemicals of the mind", or, perhaps we could say they function on a strong love--hate axis that a person could not normally control. I believe it is wise to begin with this tutelary aspect of Sarasvati and slowly learn Sita and Nectar Jewel Lakshmi. This is fundamental to either Aryan Sri Kula (Shakti) or Buddhism.

    I believe they are safe basics that reveal a considerable portion of esoteric practice.

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    Default Re: Astrology

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    The Sidereal system considers the Ascendant and stops there. There is no Mid-heaven and so forth.
    Your statement can't be true, here is an experienced Vedic Astrologer who is using the Mid heaven in sidereal astrology.

    Quote 10th House Vedic Astrology, Tenth House

    The Mid heaven or southern angle, the cusp or line of which is touched by the Sun at midday during noontime everyday at all the places on Earth, is known as the 10th House or Medium Coeli. This is why it is known as the principal or supreme angle of the heaven, according to heavenly calculations. The 10th House is an important feature as all the arcs of the directions to the angles are calculated from the Right Ascension of the Mid heavens. The astrological predictions make it the most important aspects related to the all arcs of directions. It is the most important aspect as it is related to matters like fame, name, recognition and honor.
    https://www.india-astrologer.com/ved...ouse/10th.html

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