Justifying Your Existence

[Mike]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Mike, anybody who would sing 'ring of fire' with an old dude in a hospital has more than justified his existence in this world. That duet has to be enshrined in the Akashic hall of fame!

I feel we are all sent here for a purpose if only to expand our ability to empathize and feel compassion.

Religious guilt with the purpose of shaming us into prescribed behavior doesn't work. It backfires through suppression and then eruption into extreme neurosis. But the sense of deep responsibility to those close to you should expand into a deeper realization of our role as citizens of a planet.

If we do feel a a bit of shame and a little guilt, it's appropriate, particularly if it is a motivating force for changing the way we live. New Age pop philosophy is a mile wide and an inch deep and does a huge disservice to the shaping of our characters by encouraging us to think we are great just the way we are and that all shame is destructive.

That idea misses the point and deforms character. You can't possibly approach the question of self justification if the emotions of guilt and shame are completely obliterated. They go hand in hand. The best way of dealing with guilt and shame is to allow it to feature in as part of our general personality complex as an aid, a guide, without feeling mortified. Extreme feelings of shame and guilt guarantee fight or flight away from the source of shame. It isn't dealt with properly.

I was going to go thru the process of isolating all your best quotes, but this whole post is a highlight.

"new age pop philosophy is a mile wide and an inch deep" I'm going to steal that btw, and pretend I invented it

I'm not a man to deliberately seek pain and drama, but challenging oneself sometimes by doing something that makes us a little uncomfortable is absolutely necessary.. or accepting that some shame is good, or some darkness is good, or some anger is good. To shun it all in favor of teddy bears and lolly pops is to risk enormous distortions to our psyche and psychic structure. and i think this is the main pathology that is plaguing us today!..particularly among millennials (picking on millennials is low-hanging fruit, so i want to qualify that by saying that ive met some brilliant millennials both here on the forum and irl, and in some very undeniable ways they are considerably better than us....they're just not very tough(in general))

this was going to be the part where i insist once again that i don't really feel any guilt lol, but since several posters have pointed it out already, perhaps i have to reconsider that.

note: good memory Autumn on the "ring of fire" story!

[Mike]

this deserves a bump. thanks Delight.

Liberty as a Life Philosophy
Much more than an idea, liberty is a guiding principle for our lives and interactions in the world.
...............................
(A life philosophy)
It ought to be something so lofty and universal that you’re proud to live it and delighted when others choose to do so too.

A life philosophy is neither superficial nor fleeting. You don’t embrace it because it’s convenient or fashionable or even profitable. It’s deeper, more holistic and lasting than that. It ought to be rooted in ideas and conduct that are right, relevant, and uplifting. It should cause you to be remembered someday as a man or woman whose consistency and example gave the world a model worth emulating.

[Mike]

Petra, i will confess to experiencing some puzzlement after reading this

Maybe you could elaborate a little.

The timing of your posting is coinciding with my self talk
You'll never guess what I've been doing....
I'm not Justifying MY Existence... I'm trying to JUSTIFY the WORD "exists"!!!
As far as I'm concerned, that word should not exist ;-)

Joking aside, I have the same kind of feelings come and go, but I'm going in the complete opposite direction as Mike. I see myself as an observer, and so as long as I am observing, my existence feels "justified". If I don't have to reincarnate back here again.... I'll consider this existence justified at that point...

[AutumnW]

Thanks for the compliment, Mike! It's very much appreciated. I borrowed that expression from my brother and he probably borrowed it from somebody else. I don't think it's original at all.
I hope you had a lovely day full of crushing philosophical angst, while you drowned in guilt and shame....NOT!

[Mike]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Thanks for the compliment, Mike! It's very much appreciated. I borrowed that expression from my brother and he probably borrowed it from somebody else. I don't think it's original at all.
I hope you had a lovely day full of crushing philosophical angst, while you drowned in guilt and shame....NOT!

crushing philosophical angst is so much more fun at night, with beers. much more romantic too! haha

the daytime makes me feel like i should actually be doing something about it, and that can be annoying

[AutumnW]

I am sure you are doing something about it. Your unconscious is probably as engaged in the subject as your conscious mind, it's just not immediately available to you. It's like you've embarked on a hero's journey of sorts. I feel it will take you somewhere intriguing.

[DNA]

Mike I don't mean to give a simple response to your complex post but it is what helped me deal with some of what you say.
As for your dad I look at it like he gets to die with a certain amount of self worth and pride. He raised his kids, provided for them and he gets to hold his head up high knowing he did all he could do for his kids. That means a lot to a man. You are not a memory of lost freedoms but a point of pride as he was instrumental in making you and your siblings the folks they are today. I think this is something he will cherish for this life and very probably beyond, he persevered in the face of adversity and self sacrifice. I think this is something.
In so far as every human delivering untold damage on the planet due to our existence I have adopted a mind set that lets me live pretty guilt free.
I used to really freak out about the obvious impact humans have on the planet.
Truth be told, I would secretly bemoan my existence and offer secret prayers to the God of the Apocalypse to bless mankind with a swift but definitive end.
I don't do that anymore. I've looked into the geologic history of the Earth and I've seen so many Extinction events that my sense of guilt and worry began to fade.
Mankind is nothing more than the latest extinction level event, like an asteroid hitting the planet. I may not be religious but I believe in a plan, I believe in reincarnation and this helps me to understand that there is a cyclical practice to existence. For most of the Earth's life span mankind is a drop in the bucket, hardly dominant in terms of our affect on all other living things.
It's just that we live now in the time of brutal destruction and a human population explosion. The animals and plants get hundreds of millions of years to do their incarnating and learning. We have only really been messing things up for a few hundred years. Things will balance out as apparently mankind needs it's present abundance to do a little learning as well. Now is this all so much horse sh!t I'm spoon feeding myself to live guilt free? Maybe, but this is how I've come to terms with some of the things you talk about.

[petra]

Posted by Mike (here)
Petra, i will confess to experiencing some puzzlement after reading this

Maybe you could elaborate a little.

The timing of your posting is coinciding with my self talk
You'll never guess what I've been doing....
I'm not Justifying MY Existence... I'm trying to JUSTIFY the WORD "exists"!!!
As far as I'm concerned, that word should not exist ;-)

Joking aside, I have the same kind of feelings come and go, but I'm going in the complete opposite direction as Mike. I see myself as an observer, and so as long as I am observing, my existence feels "justified". If I don't have to reincarnate back here again.... I'll consider this existence justified at that point...

Hi Mike, not sure what to elaborate on exactly. I guess you mean my feelings, and not the stupid joke

To me, it feels like I am going cycles (or circles? cycles sounds less tiresome).
When I have one of those super-sad periods, happy periods tend to follow. I know it sounds like nonsense but to me, most of my feelings seem like nonsense. It's almost as if I'm charging up a battery by being sad, and then a happiness bomb explodes once it gets filled up.
Some mornings, I wake up already ticked off, but that passes too. It's not necessarily due to a dream (but maybe).

As for justifying your existence, that sounds impossible, which is why I am joking about it.

I can't justify my existence (yet), but I can feel justified in existing.

[Mike]

thanks Marcus i found that hugely helpful, actually. no horse **** as far as i'm concerned.

you articulated nicely some things i've also been thinking the last couple days..particularly the part about my father's sacrifice and the accompanying pride and sense of accomplishment he must feel towards his kids, and that perhaps that is in and of itself enough for him as far as a "reward" goes...and doesn't necessarily require any kind of sacrifice from me. and yet...i desperately want to "repay" him somehow. aw hell, likely another thread...the son's desire to make his Dad proud and all that.

and thx Petra, i follow ya now

[Denise/Dizi]

Great thread Mike..

Love the way that you see life, and in my opinion, that isn't guilt, it is just a sense of purpose, and a sense of obligation to your fellow man, the planet, the whole.. It is you finding your place, and your true meaning for being here.

Giving back, isn't an obligation, and as such, it is often times overlooked.. We do take a lot of this world, merely to be here... There is nothing wrong with recognizing that and wanting to give back in some way.. I know I have a sincere appreciation of everything that I have been allowed to experience here, good bad, and in between, because all of it was a learning experience. So I too, feel I should give back in some way.. We tip our waitresses, why not take care of our world in some way? Or the people in it?

About the ego...

Personally I wish to evolve, one can't truly do that if they believe they are the best at everything. I laugh at my mistakes and sincerely try harder. Fumbling and asking for help along the way when I need it... Knowing I should be ok with the end result, because it was the intentions that mattered.

I don't think religion has anything to do with what you're suggesting here.. And I love what you wrote. Thank You

P.S.-
You're not justifying your existence, you're making sure that your existence was worthy and just.. In all ways.. Not just what you got but what you gave back.