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Thread: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

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    Default Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism.
    Consequently, criticizing Israel for its massacre of innocent Palestinians is anti-Semitic.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=DUPI1qE0fIY
    (from 4:00 or so)

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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    Only Jews? Why not make anti Americans protection law or anti Chinese or anti Palestine. smells like rotten to the core. they are just making it very obvious indeed.

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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    Quote Posted by Bubu (here)
    smells like rotten to the core.
    I'm with you. It's all propaganda.
    Sadly, many people fall for it.

    I have a number of Jewish friends who are anti-Zionist. What are they?
    Anti-Semitic Jews? Ridiculous.

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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    Quote Posted by Didgevillage (here)
    Quote Posted by Bubu (here)
    smells like rotten to the core.
    I'm with you. It's all propaganda.
    Sadly, many people fall for it.
    I have a number of Jewish friends who are anti-Zionist. What are they?
    Anti-Semitic Jews? Ridiculous.
    BTW, Palestinians are Semites (as are all Arabs).

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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    BTW, Palestinians are Semites (as are all Arabs).
    That's right. Propaganda requires no logic.

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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    Quote Posted by Didgevillage (here)
    Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism.
    Same old BS,They'd better come with new tricks because that one is getting old.

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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    Quote Posted by Didgevillage (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    BTW, Palestinians are Semites (as are all Arabs).
    That's right. Propaganda requires no logic.
    This is an emotional issue for you. Are you Arabic?

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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    This stuff is so rediculous however its deadly serious - imagine if criticism of Israel becomes by definition anti-semitism, and we get old social media posts dredged up and used to deduct social credits.

    its coming, we need to resist. Should there be a mass campaign of organized Israel criticism, so everybody becomes equally guilty?
    we have subcontracted the business of healing people to Companies who profit from sickness.

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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    Quote Posted by Baby Steps (here)
    This stuff is so rediculous however its deadly serious - imagine if criticism of Israel becomes by definition anti-semitism, and we get old social media posts dredged up and used to deduct social credits.

    its coming, we need to resist. Should there be a mass campaign of organized Israel criticism, so everybody becomes equally guilty?
    You are right about that. But I see it as some sort of insecurity. the zionist knows what is coming. people are waking up. They are losing on many fronts. Now Venezuela. Thus they are looking for a place to hide. behind the Semites?

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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    Quote Posted by Didgevillage (here)
    Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism.
    Consequently, criticizing Israel for its massacre of innocent Palestinians is anti-Semitic.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=DUPI1qE0fIY
    (from 4:00 or so)
    UTTERLY and completely wrong! (Title change necessary. I see what you're doing, playing off of a hotbutton phrase, but for all of those that don't bother to actually watch the video to see that it is a notion being challenged, it is counterproductive. I'd suggest a new title, adding a question mark at the end.)

    "Zionism" is a political ideology, and as such, fair game for attack and derision.

    Anti-Semitism is a very poor choice for a word to describe "anti-Jew", which is what the word "antisemite" really intends to indicate. Why? Well, Judaism is a religion, and anyone of any ethnicity can be Jewish. Very few Israeli citizens are actually ethnically "Semitic", but the Palestinians that they are genociding ARE Semitic!

    The zionist government of israel, and the zionist movement (primarily the same cabal - both factions - that owns/controls the USA, INC.), has been muddying the water for decades, using Jews and Judaism as a human shield to hide behind as they expand their metastasis of zionism.

    I am anti-zionist, and feel deep compassion for the real Semites - the Arabs in and around Palestine.


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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    UTTERLY and completely wrong! (Title change necessary. I see what you're doing, playing off of a hotbutton phrase, but for all of those that don't bother to actually watch the video to see that it is a notion being challenged, it is counterproductive. I'd suggest a new title, adding a question mark at the end.)

    "Zionism" is a political ideology, and as such, fair game for attack and derision.

    Anti-Semitism is a very poor choice for a word to describe "anti-Jew", which is what the word "antisemite" really intends to indicate. Why? Well, Judaism is a religion, and anyone of any ethnicity can be Jewish. Very few Israeli citizens are actually ethnically "Semitic", but the Palestinians that they are genociding ARE Semitic!

    The zionist government of israel, and the zionist movement (primarily the same cabal - both factions - that owns/controls the USA, INC.), has been muddying the water for decades, using Jews and Judaism as a human shield to hide behind as they expand their metastasis of zionism.

    I am anti-zionist, and feel deep compassion for the real Semites - the Arabs in and around Palestine.
    If you have a copy of Bible, I want you to read the portion where Prophet Ezekiel talks about God and Magog.
    It says the enemy of the "people" strikes from the north, kills and plunders the peaceful settlements.

    Many think Russia will be culprit but they are wrong.

    It's the Zionists from the north (Russia, Poland and Ukraine) who invaded the peaceful villages of Palestine.
    If so, God's "people" means Palestinians.

    Interestingly, the genetic descendants of old Israel are Palestinians, according to some researchers, and Ashkenazi (European) Jews are Turkic Khazars who converted to Judaism in the 9th century. Even the prophesy by Ezekiel refers to "Gog and Magog" as Turks indirectly.

    I think "Gog and Magog" means "Gokturk and Mongols". (Turks are of the Mongolian race)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6kt%C3%BCrks

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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    I think the bible is not a good reference for anything. its been edited many times or perhaps created purposely to deceive. Who knows. The issue here is not to confuse zionism or zionist for anything. Not Jews Semites or anything. As Dennis mentioned its a political movement that aims to conquer the world. Anti zionist is not anti jew or anti semites the zionist expand the meaning and coverage to include the innocents. Of course they aim to muddy the situation and hope to escape from the confusion.

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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    Quote Posted by Didgevillage (here)
    Interestingly, the genetc descendants of old Israel are Palestinians, according to some researchers, and Ashkenazi (European) Jews are Turkic Khazars who converted to Judaism in the 9th century. Even the prophesy by Ezekiel refers to "Gog and Magog" as Turks indirectly.
    I haven't studied it extensively, but from what I've read, the Ashkenazi = Khazars is wrong. DNA shows that Jews emigrated to eastern Europe from the Middle East and took local wives, that the Ashkenazi are European in their mitochondrial DNA, hence the blue eyes, etc. But they have semitic features as well. They didn't just convert to Judaism, they married into it. If you think about it, the idea that a bunch of Europeans got hold of a Torah and decided to convert is kind of far-fetched.

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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    Quote Posted by Bubu (here)
    I think the bible is not a good reference for anything. its been edited many times or perhaps created purposely to deceive.
    The Bible is sometimes right. When it comes to Ezekiel, the "God" he refers to is probably space aliens who took him aboard their space ship, which in turn is a time machine.

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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    I haven't studied it extensively, but from what I've read, the Ashkenazi = Khazars is wrong. DNA shows that Jews emigrated to eastern Europe from the Middle East and took local wives, that the Ashkenazi are European in their mitochondrial DNA, hence the blue eyes, etc. But they have semitic features as well. They didn't just convert to Judaism, they married into it. If you think about it, the idea that a bunch of Europeans got hold of a Torah and decided to convert is kind of far-fetched.
    I'm really suspicious of DNA studies, but as long as you take it with a grain of salt, it's safe.
    Mitochondrial DNA can go through mutations, so the claim that all humans descended from an African female ape has been refuted.

    Khazars learned German as their lingua franca, not that they spoke it from get-go. Yiddish (so-called Judeo-German) was a pidgin language learned, according to Professor Wexler (University of Tel Aviv)

    The Khazars were notorious slave traders and many that were (force) converted to Judaism included Slavs and other nationalities of the Caucasus.
    Today's Turkey, as an other example, was inhabited by Celts, Armenians, Greeks, etc., before the Turks infiltrated the area hundreds of years later. Yes, intermarriage certainly is a factor.

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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    Quote Posted by Didgevillage (here)
    Quote Posted by Bubu (here)
    I think the bible is not a good reference for anything. its been edited many times or perhaps created purposely to deceive.
    The Bible is sometimes right. When it comes to Ezekiel, the "God" he refers to is probably space aliens who took him aboard their space ship, which in turn is a time machine.
    The bible is correct on many occasions. Although I dont see how a, sometimes correct and sometimes wrong, can be a good reference. sort of. If you go fishing you need some goodie to hide the hook.

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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Are you Arabic?
    No, I'm not.
    Zionism is all about killing all Arabs, then Christians and then the rest.
    But many don't realize that.

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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    From Jonathan Cook blog
    (...)In a now familiar pattern to lobby claims, Sacks relied on the false premise that all Jews are Zionists. He conflated a religious or ethnic category with a political ideology. The Labour leader has held his ground on this occasion, pointing out that he was using the term “in the accurate political sense and not as a euphemism for Jewish people”. (...)
    What follows is an abridged version of my post back in January that deals with this hot-button and emotive topic. An understanding of the history of the terminology and how it has been corrupted (deliberately) to take on entirely different meanings in the public psyche - perception management - is very important to be aware of.

    ****
    And Dennis is CORRECT (see his post here)
    ****

    I am going to change the thread title as well, as it is unintentionally oxymoronic, and just plain wrong, beggin' your pardon. (now changed - TQ)

    ****

    When I first saw this thread appear my immediate reaction was - to flag it as a potential car crash due to it likely wheeling quickly out of control. But, I thought again, and, provided a mature, thoughtful, informed and intelligent discussion does take place here then it may well be a very valuable and stimulating one to keep. I've got my fingers crossed

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    These are but a tiny clutch of many synoptic sources on the internet:

    Etymology of the currently most misunderstood words/terms that are bandied around with next to no real understanding of their original and actual meanings:

    Semite (from https://www.druidry.org/events-proje...haemus-lecture) - Section 9 (in itself a mammoth work but actually really very interesting indeed)

    The Eleventh Mount Haemus Lecture | Druidry & Transpersonal History - by Dr Thomas Clough Daffern

    "To Druid thinkers, whether of ancient times, or modern times, the whole notion of anti-Semitism would have been a logical oxymoron: the Semite is etymologically the one who listens, the people who hear – and Phoenicians, Akkadians, Babylonians, Phoenicians, Hebrews and Arabs were all from this conglomeration of tribal peoples." [ my emphases - TQ ]

    Jew (from http://www.wicwiki.org.uk/mediawiki/...Word_%22Jew%22)

    When asked, "Who is Israel? - Who is a Jew?" the Israeli Government's Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) unhesitatingly answered:

    "The term Israelite is purely Biblical. An Israeli is a citizen of Israel, regardless of religion. A Jew is a person anywhere in the world born to a Jewish mother, or converted to Judaism, who is thus identified as a member of the Jewish people and religion"
    (Information Division, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Jerusalem; February, 1998).

    The Jewish Almanac concurs: "Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a "Jew." Or to call a contemporary Jew [an] "Israelite," or a "Hebrew." The first Hebrews would not have been Jews at all, and contemporary Palestinians, by their own definition of the term "Palestinian," have to include Jews among their own people" (The Jewish Almanac, October, 1980, page 3, Bantam Books, Inc).

    And, this: Ioudaios derived from the Aramaic jehudhai which did not refer to members of the tribe of Judah but to Judeans, the residents of the Babylonian province of Judea. The spelling of our present-day English word Jew is a transliteration of an abbreviation or slang word coined by their Babylonian conquerors for Judeans without reference to the race or religion of the captives.

    Hebrew/Apiru/Habiru (from: http://www.imninalu.net/habiru.htm)

    From the Papyrus Leiden, dated to the reign of Ramose II, about the year 2510 (1250 b.c.e.), the following statement is made in a letter: "Issue grain to the men of the army and to the Apiru who draw stone for the great pylon of Ramses II". Again we see Apiru in bondage in Egypt down to the time of Ramose II. They were being used as quarrymen and manual labourers.

    These references to the Apiru in Egyptian documents and on monuments show their presence in Egypt, and their social importance, for more than three centuries. The same people are called elsewhere "Habiru" or "Habiri".

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Related thread: Al Jazeera's "The Lobby" documentary series
    Last edited by Tintin; 9th May 2019 at 11:21.
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    The Apiru in ancient Egypt were bandits, who may or may not have been the Hebrews. We don't know.
    But one thing is for certain.
    Hebrew is the language of Canaan which was Phoenician

    The Palestinians, who are Muslims today, quietly believe they descended from old Israel.
    The same goes for the Samaritans, whose community still exists in Nablus (Shechem) and Holon, south of Tel Aviv.

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    Default Re: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? (Discuss - sensibly)

    Quote Posted by Didgevillage (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Are you Arabic?
    No, I'm not.
    Zionism is all about killing all Arabs, then Christians and then the rest.
    But many don't realize that.
    Haven't most religions at one time or another wanted to convert or kill everyone else? But do you know of a Jew who actually wants to do that?

    I ask if you're Arab because I used to have an Israeli friend and also an Arabic-American father-in-law, both highly intelligent. Neither could be remotely rational regarding the other side, incapable of truth or fairness. Have you ever seen two domineering personalities interacting? Each projects their own ugly traits onto the other in never-ending lies and accusations. Like stubborn people accusing every else of being stubborn. A perpetual motion machine! Jews and Arabs fighting over the same land, both wanting ALL the spoils -- they deserve each other.

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