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Thread: Straight Pride gets attacked during "pride month"

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    Australia Avalon Member Anchor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Straight Pride gets attacked during "pride month"

    The various factions of the elite are loosing control, but they still seek to serve up division in anyway they can.

    Stoking up division around "identity" is a potent focus for hate, but I don't see it working on the long term here.

    We are all one, yet we are different. We know that we need to love others and ourselves and seek out that perfection that inspires each other-self as well as ourselves - regardless of the way we refract that purity in our expression on Earth.

    It is what many are doing and it is why, eventually, these tactics of spreading hate will fail.

    That said, I found the idea of a straight pride movement quite amusing, because to me, it is clearly not part of the plan. It is a backlash - and that backlash is now being fought. Not only that but it seems that, it has causes some pretty hateful things to have been said - which kind of highlights the dangers of this identitarian way of thinking.
    Those of the positive polarity are of service when by action or thought or even intention, another entity or the self is freer to seek his or her own path than before the intended service was performed. --L/Leema

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Straight Pride gets attacked during

    Quote Posted by Bluegreen (here)
    I don't necessarily have a problem with strangers waggling their sexuality in my face, gay or straight, but there's a place for it and it ain't the streets.
    I think I just got this now ...

    I'm gettin' old ...
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 12th June 2019 at 01:13.
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    Default Re: Straight Pride gets attacked during "pride month"

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)

    I get this, as I get all responses to identity politics. Hit back with more identity politics...It degrades the entire debate and renders the discussion meaningless as it is no longer concerned with finding an answer to an inherent problem, but, instead, is seeking only to neutralize and minimalize the issue that divided and pit populations against each other in the second place. The only outcome possible is a lessening of real understanding and the capacity to move forward productively.
    I get where you're coming from and recognize this as a valid observation; however, I would submit your conclusion is presumptuous. It presumes motive embedded in the dogma of identity politics itself--which is completely logical and reasonable, but only if this is the paradigm on which one perceives the world. It should come as no surprise that those who criticize identity politics may well perceive the world itself through a different lens.

    Let's do a thought experiment outside the particular paradigm that divides individuals into groups and casts and colors and creeds and assumes all individual motives are thus based on the interests inherent to one's particular group. Let's assume for sake argument that identity politics plays no role in how or why one thinks and believes as he or she does. I would ask you, under these set of givens, do those who throw identity politics back into the fray really do so to employ a defensive shield of sorts to neutralize and minimalize the issue? Is that really true, you think?

    It may be true, and I'm sure it is for some who bandy the argument. However, I challenge you to meditate on this just a little further. Could your conclusion of what's going on here be a biased interpretation based on your personal experience of marginalization, or at the very least, based on a paradigm of identity politics itself?

    How about this an an alternative explanation. How about those who are courageous enough to launch any kind of push back against identity politics (the general cultural consensus casts aspersions of the social injustice apologist upon those who dare criticize identity politics) not only recognize the problem but actually do want to find the answer to an inherent problem. If the problem is structural in nature and has to do with a sort of trance people are in that undergirds beliefs and behaviors and unconscious modes of being, the answer, then, is to raise awareness and break this trance without pushing people further into their matrix of unconsciousness. What would you say to the hypothesis that asserts the methods and tactics to raise awareness via the dogma of identity politics not only exacerbates the problem itself, but also lessens a real understanding of the problem and stagnates the capacity to move forward productively? Would it be such a stretch to entertain this as the underlying motive of those who criticize identity politics?

    Let's just simplify this and get it over with:

    Identity politics makes things worse.

    Agree or disagree and that being said, I assert adamantly that I do not fall into the camp of one who is apologizing for the problem. I am certainly not seeking to neutralize it. And I will say in all sincerity it has nothing to do with serving the interests of the group or cast or class or color or creed or sexual orientation with whom I associate.

    Can't we find another path to address the problem and to raise awareness? Is there no other way?
    Last edited by T Smith; 12th June 2019 at 04:26.

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    Default Re: Straight Pride gets attacked during "pride month"

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)

    I get this, as I get all responses to identity politics. Hit back with more identity politics...It degrades the entire debate and renders the discussion meaningless as it is no longer concerned with finding an answer to an inherent problem, but, instead, is seeking only to neutralize and minimalize the issue that divided and pit populations against each other in the second place. The only outcome possible is a lessening of real understanding and the capacity to move forward productively.
    I get where you're coming from and recognize this as a valid observation; however, I would submit your conclusion is presumptuous. It presumes motive embedded in the dogma of identity politics itself--which is completely logical and reasonable, but only if this is the paradigm on which one perceives the world. It should come as no surprise that those who criticize identity politics may well perceive the world itself through a different lens.

    Let's do a thought experiment outside the particular paradigm that divides individuals into groups and casts and colors and creeds and assumes all individual motives are thus based on the interests inherent to one's particular group. Let's assume for sake argument that identity politics plays no role in how or why one thinks and believes as he or she does. I would ask you, under these set of givens, do those who throw identity politics back into the fray really do so to employ a defensive shield of sorts to neutralize and minimalize the issue? Is that really true, you think?

    It may be true, and I'm sure it is for some who bandy the argument. However, I challenge you to meditate on this just a little further. Could your conclusion of what's going on here be a biased interpretation based on your personal experience of marginalization, or at the very least, based on a paradigm of identity politics itself?

    How about this an an alternative explanation. How about those who are courageous enough to launch any kind of push back against identity politics (the general cultural consensus casts aspersions of the social injustice apologist upon those who dare criticize identity politics) not only recognize the problem but actually do want to find the answer to an inherent problem. If the problem is structural in nature and has to do with a sort of trance people are in that undergirds beliefs and behaviors and unconscious modes of being, the answer, then, is to raise awareness and break this trance without pushing people further into their matrix of unconsciousness. What would you say to the hypothesis that asserts the methods and tactics to raise awareness via the dogma of identity politics not only exacerbates the problem itself, but also lessens a real understanding of the problem and stagnates the capacity to move forward productively? Would it be such a stretch to entertain this as the underlying motive of those who criticize identity politics?

    Let's just simplify this and get it over with:

    Identity politics makes things worse.

    Agree or disagree and that being said, I assert adamantly that I do not fall into the camp of one who is apologizing for the problem. I am certainly not seeking to neutralize it. And I will say in all sincerity it has nothing to do with serving the interests of the group or cast or class or color or creed or sexual orientation with whom I associate.

    Can't we find another path to address the problem and to raise awareness? Is there no other way?
    Your post, as a response and argument to Rhakyt's post, makes no sense. You argue, say you don't quite agree, then go on to argue the exact same thing he was stating ... he just said it first and more succinctly? I guess that could be seen as flattery maybe ... not sure what is going on here ...
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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  9. Link to Post #45
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    Default Re: Straight Pride gets attacked during "pride month"

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)

    I get this, as I get all responses to identity politics. Hit back with more identity politics...It degrades the entire debate and renders the discussion meaningless as it is no longer concerned with finding an answer to an inherent problem, but, instead, is seeking only to neutralize and minimalize the issue that divided and pit populations against each other in the second place. The only outcome possible is a lessening of real understanding and the capacity to move forward productively.
    I get where you're coming from and recognize this as a valid observation; however, I would submit your conclusion is presumptuous. It presumes motive embedded in the dogma of identity politics itself--which is completely logical and reasonable, but only if this is the paradigm on which one perceives the world. It should come as no surprise that those who criticize identity politics may well perceive the world itself through a different lens.

    Let's do a thought experiment outside the particular paradigm that divides individuals into groups and casts and colors and creeds and assumes all individual motives are thus based on the interests inherent to one's particular group. Let's assume for sake argument that identity politics plays no role in how or why one thinks and believes as he or she does. I would ask you, under these set of givens, do those who throw identity politics back into the fray really do so to employ a defensive shield of sorts to neutralize and minimalize the issue? Is that really true, you think?

    It may be true, and I'm sure it is for some who bandy the argument. However, I challenge you to meditate on this just a little further. Could your conclusion of what's going on here be a biased interpretation based on your personal experience of marginalization, or at the very least, based on a paradigm of identity politics itself?

    How about this an an alternative explanation. How about those who are courageous enough to launch any kind of push back against identity politics (the general cultural consensus casts aspersions of the social injustice apologist upon those who dare criticize identity politics) not only recognize the problem but actually do want to find the answer to an inherent problem. If the problem is structural in nature and has to do with a sort of trance people are in that undergirds beliefs and behaviors and unconscious modes of being, the answer, then, is to raise awareness and break this trance without pushing people further into their matrix of unconsciousness. What would you say to the hypothesis that asserts the methods and tactics to raise awareness via the dogma of identity politics not only exacerbates the problem itself, but also lessens a real understanding of the problem and stagnates the capacity to move forward productively? Would it be such a stretch to entertain this as the underlying motive of those who criticize identity politics?

    Let's just simplify this and get it over with:

    Identity politics makes things worse.

    Agree or disagree and that being said, I assert adamantly that I do not fall into the camp of one who is apologizing for the problem. I am certainly not seeking to neutralize it. And I will say in all sincerity it has nothing to do with serving the interests of the group or cast or class or color or creed or sexual orientation with whom I associate.

    Can't we find another path to address the problem and to raise awareness? Is there no other way?
    Your post, as a response and argument to Rhakyt's post, makes no sense. You argue, say you don't quite agree, then go on to argue the exact same thing he was stating ... he just said it first and more succinctly? I guess that could be seen as flattery maybe ... not sure what is going on here ...
    Well for sure it probably shouldn't be in this thread (while related to the OP, a side discussion about identity politics could possibly derail the thread)... And perhaps I read his post wrong, but I inferred the gist to mean the push back against identity politics as a legitimate means to ameliorate marginalization in society merely renders the entire debate meaningless and instead exposes an ulterior motive to derail the intent undergirding identity politics... Am I reading this wrong? If so, I will modify my post accordingly with apologies to Rhakyt and all those who suffered through my thoughts . But if not, this is the part I specifically disagree with. When he says "...no longer concerned with finding an answer to an inherent problem, but, instead, is seeking only (emphasis mine)to neutralize and minimalize the issue..." implies to me that those who criticize identity politics have an ulterior motive....

    Carry on.

    T Smith
    Last edited by T Smith; 12th June 2019 at 16:59.

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  11. Link to Post #46
    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Straight Pride gets attacked during "pride month"

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)

    I get this, as I get all responses to identity politics. Hit back with more identity politics...It degrades the entire debate and renders the discussion meaningless as it is no longer concerned with finding an answer to an inherent problem, but, instead, is seeking only to neutralize and minimalize the issue that divided and pit populations against each other in the second place. The only outcome possible is a lessening of real understanding and the capacity to move forward productively.
    I get where you're coming from and recognize this as a valid observation; however, I would submit your conclusion is presumptuous. It presumes motive embedded in the dogma of identity politics itself--which is completely logical and reasonable, but only if this is the paradigm on which one perceives the world. It should come as no surprise that those who criticize identity politics may well perceive the world itself through a different lens.

    Let's do a thought experiment outside the particular paradigm that divides individuals into groups and casts and colors and creeds and assumes all individual motives are thus based on the interests inherent to one's particular group. Let's assume for sake argument that identity politics plays no role in how or why one thinks and believes as he or she does. I would ask you, under these set of givens, do those who throw identity politics back into the fray really do so to employ a defensive shield of sorts to neutralize and minimalize the issue? Is that really true, you think?

    It may be true, and I'm sure it is for some who bandy the argument. However, I challenge you to meditate on this just a little further. Could your conclusion of what's going on here be a biased interpretation based on your personal experience of marginalization, or at the very least, based on a paradigm of identity politics itself?

    How about this an an alternative explanation. How about those who are courageous enough to launch any kind of push back against identity politics (the general cultural consensus casts aspersions of the social injustice apologist upon those who dare criticize identity politics) not only recognize the problem but actually do want to find the answer to an inherent problem. If the problem is structural in nature and has to do with a sort of trance people are in that undergirds beliefs and behaviors and unconscious modes of being, the answer, then, is to raise awareness and break this trance without pushing people further into their matrix of unconsciousness. What would you say to the hypothesis that asserts the methods and tactics to raise awareness via the dogma of identity politics not only exacerbates the problem itself, but also lessens a real understanding of the problem and stagnates the capacity to move forward productively? Would it be such a stretch to entertain this as the underlying motive of those who criticize identity politics?

    Let's just simplify this and get it over with:

    Identity politics makes things worse.

    Agree or disagree and that being said, I assert adamantly that I do not fall into the camp of one who is apologizing for the problem. I am certainly not seeking to neutralize it. And I will say in all sincerity it has nothing to do with serving the interests of the group or cast or class or color or creed or sexual orientation with whom I associate.

    Can't we find another path to address the problem and to raise awareness? Is there no other way?
    Your post, as a response and argument to Rhakyt's post, makes no sense. You argue, say you don't quite agree, then go on to argue the exact same thing he was stating ... he just said it first and more succinctly? I guess that could be seen as flattery maybe ... not sure what is going on here ...
    Well for sure it probably shouldn't be in this thread (while related to the OP, a side discussion about identity politics could possibly derail the thread)... And perhaps I read his post wrong, but I inferred the gist to mean the push back against identity politics as a legitimate means to ameliorate marginalization in society merely renders the entire debate meaningless and instead exposes an ulterior motive to derail the intent undergirding identity politics... Am I reading this wrong? If so, I will modify my post accordingly with apologies to Rhakyt and all those who suffered through my thoughts . But if not, this is the part I specifically disagree with. When he says "...no longer concerned with finding an answer to an inherent problem, but, instead, is seeking only (emphasis mine)to neutralize and minimalize the issue..." implies to me that those who criticize identity politics have an ulterior motive....

    Carry on.

    T Smith
    I just think you missed his main emphasis which was this:
    Quote Hit back with more identity politics...It degrades the entire debate and renders the discussion meaningless ...
    That doesn't sound like he was claiming legitimacy.

    He was claiming that some see it as legit, it was their motivation, and thus that was why it occurred (the "reasoning" in peoples minds that led to this) . He was not saying it was a legit thing to do.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Straight Pride gets attacked during "pride month"

    Lads (...),

    I think it is inevitable that identity politics (IP) is discussed on this thread. It is part of it.

    Maybe some think IP is a real way to open up peoples perception to the manipulations, since it is so ridiculously obvious once you see it. So maybe there can be sincere motivations behind using IP in discussions.
    Truth is truth.

    But, yeah If you mean throwing back IP in the same , or escalating, fashion, it becomes a fight. You engage in the game you did not make.
    Using the rules of the IP game to dismantle it is fair I think.

    I think though that the diversity+proximity =conflict is very real and done on purpose. Of course. That is very real in us humans.

    The tribal forces in us are pretty strong. Especially when the differences are so flabbergastingly large as with migrants for example, as opposed to, for example, the Irish Troubles, which already seemed irreconcilable.

    This here goes way beyond any hope of a peaceful solution, it feels right now.
    The infighting within our own group is so difficult already, like with this manufactured LGBT++ unrest. Pretty sure that is for a reason too.
    Silly humans. Easily toyed with, within a certain timeframe. That frame is possibly, if we are not too slow to catch up, coming to an end now.

    In that sense it is useless pouncing on the breadcrumb trail of conflicts that is laid out in front of us. Waste of energy, waste of time. Cut ahead to the levels behind. But already there is a huge wall. Made out of illicit laws, a pumped up and propogandised public against any who dares to go beyond and touch anything really aiding or abetting the plight of the (white) population, and therefore, further down the line, all of humanity. Why else is there such a hate-on on Europeans? It seems they see us as the last bump in the road to full spectrum dominance.

    Dehumanize the ones with the most resources, rob them to pay for the bombs to ruin other weaker groups. Then stampede the weakened first group with those from group two who are by now pretty pissed off. Something like that.

    This dehumanisation, with the softening up of the cohesion in our society is well underway. Using IP back, in the fighting fashion, is almost a given for people waking up late in the game, or those with not enough brain power to put it all in perspective.

    O.

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    Default Re: Straight Pride gets attacked during "pride month"

    ...

    It might be a good thing to check where it all came from: [Address] 'The Origins of Political Correctness' | Bill Lind - February 2000
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

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    Default Re: Straight Pride gets attacked during "pride month"

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    ...

    It might be a good thing to check where it all came from: [Address] 'The Origins of Political Correctness' | Bill Lind - February 2000
    I encourage everyone to read this article. It is well worth the time.

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    Default Re: Straight Pride gets attacked during "pride month"

    The focus seems to be western culture, capitalist and christian.
    What I am more, or also, interested in is in what way the critical theory (CT) or/and cultural marxism (CM) are also breaking down our human nature. Things that lie underneath western culture. It is then, I think, that the destructiveness and actual danger of these destructive forces can be judged.

    I had great trouble with the catholic environment I grew up in and broke with it at age 12. The repressive nature was stifling and the hypocrisy of the believers indigestible, even for a young lad like me. So I have sympathy for the lust to break it down.
    I have lived that anti religious life for many many years, until I found out there are certain principles in life that need to be upheld for a family and a society to survive. I was not taught those principles. Like the function of sex after marriage.
    It seems that the CM and CT go too far. That is when the anti western becomes suspect. Is it anti- gentile? That is a question that I see being asked more and more.
    The overreaction to just posing this question makes it even more suspect, as there are more related questions that get with the same hammer. So there is another repression laid on top of us, istead of the christian one. Not good, at all.

    O.

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    Default Re: Straight Pride gets attacked during "pride month"

    Western society, re north America, required maybe 3-4-5 more IQ points of emergent grouped knowledge and knowing, overall, as a group, to be able to see past the manipulations of the elite..well enough that the manipulations would be obvious enough to note clearly enough--- that they could be countered.

    The importation of the immigrants in an unchecked manner is to fuzz up or discombobulate the masses and to bring the overall societal and cultural IQ down, so that it cannot rise into being free of elite parasitism.

    I don't know of a single soul that thinks that unchecked immigration and importation of so many people is even remotely a good idea. But it is still happening, and totally against the given rules, laws, discourse, and sanity....that resides in all these countries.

    Parasites require a host to be free and to grow. Almost to live at all, requires this host body. So, the threat of human freedom is a life threat to elite parasitism.

    so they will go as far as they have to, including to the edge of total death for the host. Ie, any price, any price at all. Any cost to the host, is permissible, as the threat to the parasite is almost the same, ie, total.

    It is the problem, reaction, solution game, writ large across all of it. Forced immigration, forced integration, forced problems, forced losses, forced solutions, forced controls.

    The alternative media has made all of this --- quite obvious to all. Which is a huge threat. The totalitarian tip-toe.... is always lurking...

    This parasitical group, is still fighting to give rise to the North American union, this attempt at a 4th Reich.... This time, with Canada under control and involved, with all those resources, and oceans on two sides. Jim Marrs' book, 'Rise of the Fourth Reich' (pdf widely available, chock full of many hundreds of facts that are fully documented), is a good primer for part of the story.

    Ie, the money problems are all fake and can disappear in a second with the stroke of a pen, and so on.

    You are being gamed.

    What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Well, same manipulators ---it's part of their manipulation package.

    You are a pile of kittens, they they break out the laser pointers, you attack the laser spots on each other. Simple enough.
    Last edited by Carmody; Yesterday at 21:25.
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