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Thread: Is the Vedas' version of hell truth...?

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    Default Re: Is the Vedas' version of hell truth...?

    A state of mind when you are alive is a place when you are dead. So pursuit of happiness while alive takes on more importance.

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    Default Re: Is the Vedas' version of hell truth...?

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Ive read often--"Be care full of you thoughts when you are dying as they will take you to the realm of the mind you are focusing on"
    However that is a visit to that particular realm--its not permanent.
    So I don't believe in eternal hell and damnation.

    My signature was taken from the teaching of the late Dr Davi Hawkins--I think it was good advice which I try to follow.
    His books show an exceptional understanding of spirituality

    Chris

    I quoted Chris because I think the first line of his post points to the most important part of the bigger discussion in this thread.
    Although I have experienced strong compulsive thoughts myself I have not been diagnosed as schizophrenic, so I can not really speak to that
    there are qualified people for that. However hearing voices that are accusing or negative is bound to drive a person towards an exploration of the actual source of these things. And especially if you have experienced that repetion of a pattern tends to lead to more repetition, you can see how
    this might set up some sort of long duration after death experience. And because of my particular experience set of what seem to be various possible realms beyond ,and perhaps below the physical realm, I don't want to be caught in any positive afterlife realms either.
    So finding my hook into anything I am experiencing is my main priority in life. If something someone says upsets me I can look at the reaction coming up, hear the words of the thought, see the images, and feel the sensations/emotions, and after each of these steps look for the person that is doing that. This sort of process tends to unhook the overlapping habitual self that creates the victim of my thoughts. I can also look for the person in another who seems to be attacking me, and ask if this is a person, as well as ask what this event says about me.

    To this this effectively it usually takes some practice and training, but the main goal is to reverse the vicious cycle of reactive thoughts that

    are creating the repeated pattern. So my last thought as John is more likely to be more neutral than my present one. The funny thing is the real goal of the whole thing is not get to a place where thoughts are no longer needed by "me", and any thoughts thoughts that I experience just come and go, and have my blessing.


    The main tool I have used ,and am currently using is the unfindable inquiry, and I hope to explore techniques that come from the book focusing in the future. Also in above posts there are various roadmaps that try to describe the realms various qualities of thoughts come and go from and to, I have my favorite one, linked below.


    http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/allexistence.pdf


    Studying such things, including various alternative ones can really help in the journey, because it will show that we aren't the only ones seeing these things, and that descriptions of them are distorted by culture and limited to the conceptual mind. They are various fingers pointing to the moon, but are not themselves the moon.

    I have found that there are endless realms recreated by habitual thought, and people will tend to call many of these heavens or hells, or purgatories, but, they are in the end all just habits.


    This is a link to a blog by a professional counselor who uses various tools to help break up mental patterns. He is highly trained, and well versed in

    mindfulness I intend to try some sessions from him.


    http://robcmatthews.com/index.php/20...LEfmgD6R6k0I6I




    Reading this blog recently triggered a few days of very peaceful clear experience for me.


    " I edited the above for punctuation, and was struck by the fact that the spell checker marked my word hells, apparently just because it is unusual in western culture to think there might be more than one"



    John
    Last edited by johnf; 16th June 2019 at 18:51.
    "I am fascinated by religion. (That's a completely different thing from believing in it!)" Douglas Adams

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    Default Re: Is the Vedas' version of hell truth...?

    Letīs be objective, no DEAD person has ever came back to tell us all about. So most probably, after death, everything is finished, there is no after life, Hell or Heaven. Try to live in the present moment because it is all that is. And secondly, the modern generation of psychiatric drugs is able to supress all the voices in your head if you donīt have a severe form of Schizophrenie. So look for a doctor to prescribe you something so that you can stop listening to those voices and start concentrating on your life.

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    Default Re: Is the Vedas' version of hell truth...?

    Quote Posted by prc (here)
    Letīs be objective, no DEAD person has ever came back to tell us all about. So most probably, after death, everything is finished, there is no after life, Hell or Heaven. Try to live in the present moment because it is all that is. And secondly, the modern generation of psychiatric drugs is able to supress all the voices in your head if you donīt have a severe form of Schizophrenie. So look for a doctor to prescribe you something so that you can stop listening to those voices and start concentrating on your life.
    It's not a great idea to give advice on a subject you know nothing about. Many people have died and come back. And suggesting drugs to suppress symptoms is irresponsible.

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    Default Re: Is the Vedas' version of hell truth...?

    Quote Posted by prc (here)
    Letīs be objective, no DEAD person has ever came back to tell us all about. So most probably, after death, everything is finished, there is no after life, Hell or Heaven. Try to live in the present moment because it is all that is. And secondly, the modern generation of psychiatric drugs is able to supress all the voices in your head if you donīt have a severe form of Schizophrenie. So look for a doctor to prescribe you something so that you can stop listening to those voices and start concentrating on your life.
    This is patently untrue. I died at age 13, but was revived minutes later. The experience was beyond description, so I won't even attempt it. It was extraordinary to say the least.

    And I agree with TomKat, that drugs are never the right solution. Drugs for mental issues are incredible dangerous, with long term consequences. Nature offers us vastly more choices that are truly effective and safe.

    Sorry to pick on you, as you were obviously trying to help.
    The quantum field responds not to what we want; but to who we are being. Dr. Joe Dispenza

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    Default Re: Is the Vedas' version of hell truth...?

    Hell on earth is experienced by those who have schizophrenia. I agree that lower level entities may have something to do with the voices. And whatever they are telling you is likely not true. They may tell you a few things that are true but that sets you up to be lied to. So don't fall for it. Tell them to p*** off.

    The brain acts as a reducing valve for 'mind at large.' If that function becomes damaged and the mind is suddenly forced open to whatever's out there, it can become very Hellish. Drugs for schizophrenia help to put up barriers. In the past, the medication was a blunt instrument that created all kinds of side effects and problems. The new class of drugs restores mental barriers that keep Hell out, without the deleterious side effects.

    I wish you the very best and hopes for a life lived without this kind of interference.

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    Default Re: Is the Vedas' version of hell truth...?

    I have pondered on numerous occasions about hell. I've had discussions about hell. And I'm convinced that hell as a burning realm of eternal suffering does not exist. Allow me to offer my perspective. It'll be challenging, but I'll try to be short about it.

    The bible has a list of verses mentioning 'hell'. And another list of verses, insinuating or referencing to fire, to the same extent. If one would take the bible literally, then, if one would sin and not ask for forgiveness, at the end of life the person would end up in some burning realm of eternal suffering. Though these references to hell of the bible are not to be taken literally. It's a metaphor. Unfortunately too many people are not able to grasp this.

    First let me explain from the bible why it is a metaphor and support that with some other verses, that will show hell, being an eternal place of suffering, does not make sense.

    In the Old Testament there are references to actual burning, like in Leviticus 7:19:
    "Meat that touches anything ceremonially unclean must not be eaten; it must be burned up. As for other meat, anyone ceremonially clean may eat it."

    The Mosaic Laws were laws of acts: 'do this, do that, don't do this, don't do that'. All very literally. It is important to understand these literal Mosaic Laws were a precursor of the Laws that came into effect after Jesus died on the cross. The difference being that all the acts that Jews had to do under the Mosaic Law, no longer were needed to be done. Example is, where in the Old Testament a sacrifice was literally something one possessed (or bought) like a lam, in the New Testament could be to sacrifice part of a person's way of life, that isn't beneficial to all. But could also be seen as an offer. Any way, the coming of Jesus raised the laws, as love was made the new standard. As Jesus said:

    John 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. "

    John 15:9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love."

    Although this new standard was introduced, some references in speech remained, though now referring to certain coming situation as a result of a person's personal choices in life. Jesus introduced a new level of love in a world surrounded by tribes (world wide) that were sacrificing animals, people, and other stuff. The Maker of our souls, is not happy with sacrificing. Sacrifice in the Old Testament was merely a step in the right direction from sacrificing people. In those Old Testament days, it was the way of the world. Argh... feel I'm drifting again. If someone wants to know more regarding sacrifice and what the Great Good Spirit's opinion on it is, let me know and I'll write something up, that's more elaborate.

    Anyways, Old Testament Mosaic Law literally, New Testament more cryptically with metaphores and parables. Book of Isaiah offers a couple of insights. Book of Isaiah although Old Testament is prophesying of what was/is to come. Here's one that provides an insight regarding what to expect regarding fire, Isaiah 47:12-14:
    "“Keep on, then, with your magic spells and with your many sorceries, which you have labored at since childhood.
    Perhaps you will succeed, perhaps you will cause terror. All the counsel you have received has only worn you out!
    Let your astrologers come forward, those stargazers who make predictions month by month, let them save you from what is coming upon you.
    Surely they are like stubble; the fire will burn them up. They cannot even save themselves from the power of the flame.
    These are not coals for warmth; this is not a fire to sit by."


    That is a big clue that in a lot of cases, especially in the New Testament, when is spoken of fire, it is a reference to coming result of personal choices, egocentric choices. Basically not living as Jesus lovingly showed.

    Another clue we find in Isaiah 45:23 from the Maker of our souls:
    "By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked:
    Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear."


    This verse above is not some short term goal. Not something that will be forced either. This is a process stretching over ages. Strings of incarnations. Some will bow (out of their own will, not by force) sooner then others. But eventually all will, when they come to understand the greatness of the good our heavenly Maker has to offer, which is by nature better than what our universal realm has to offer in any way. And every soul will come to that conclusion. Souls don't die and will not suffer for ever. Though in a realm with free will, everyone can do as he chooses. And there are always consequences. Which can be either good and thoroughly enjoyable and uplifting, or a straight-up nightmare, to put it black and white. The question is: how long will a person keep on accepting suffering rather than loving everyone around him/her and the One that created their soul. How long will a person keep on placing them self as being more important than others? For some it'll take long. For others it has already taken long. Some are open for the love of our Maker and are willing to give to all needy, without expecting anything in return. The bar set by Jesus lies high. If one would fully read and understand what it was Jesus did, and would try to do the same, he would not be able to by himself. No supernatural healing of the diseased, no removal of unclean spirits, no silencing of storms, etc etc. This is because the Holy Spirit is needed within a person to guide and then, with humility, dedication and love, the Good Great One will graciously involve the person into the supernatural occurrences (as the bible says:"the person will bear fruit in it's time"). This is mostly not something that comes from one day on the next (for some it can be). And it can't be forced. It is given. Mostly this follows at a certain point after enduring dedication to the lessons of the Spirit and progress on them.

    Now what I've learned from the Spirit regarding dying. Foremost: In short, if one had his heart changed by the Spirit of the Maker of our souls and stays on the path with the Spirit, spiritual progress, after life on earth, is a certainty. Then there are two options left: One is willfully hurtful/unjust to others. Other is allowing others to be hurtful/unjust to others. These two will keep a person in the reincarnation loop. The person will die, hang around earth for support to those left behind, and at a certain point move on to a next life, with a real chance of no recollection of previous life. The 'willfull hurter' will go into a life of more suffering then the 'allower'. But both will go into a life where suffering will have part. The intensity is what differs. I recently learned these souls do have a certain level of choices they can make regarding their next life. But still suffering will be part of it, and the soul is fully aware suffering is needed for spiritual advancement.


    About schizophrenia. Can be a mental issue or a spiritual harassment, or I guess possibly even both. If it concerns mental issue, it's important to find a good expert that can help you. I think for most people that would be the first thing to look into. Personally I'd pray for insights and guidance. (I've been guided to doctors to. Not always is a supernatural solution needed.)

    The spiritual harassment can range from mischievous or in need of attention, to downright destructive, trying to have a person commit suicide. If it's spiritually, then there are people that work with the Spirit, to free people of spiritual harassment. E.g. in some Pentecostal Communities you might be able to find people that are working with the Spirit to liberate people. Or you could directly pray to Jesus for help. In that case one could pray, in the name of Jesus, open their heart and speak about what is happening and ask Jesus to help you be freed of the harassing spirits. Honesty and openness is important with this.

    Be blessed. May a solution to your situation come to you quickly.

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    Default Re: Is the Vedas' version of hell truth...?

    Even the Pope Francis has ackknowledge recently that the Church has invented the Hell Story to manipulate people.

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    Default Re: Is the Vedas' version of hell truth...?

    If you were brought back to life is because you havenīt died literally.

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    Default Re: Is the Vedas' version of hell truth...?

    Famous research psychiatrists (whose names I cannot now remember) have treated hopeless schizophrenics with huge doses of vitamin C intravenously and reversed otherwise seemingly incurable attacks of this disease. Information about this treatment mode is on the internet. Do a search under treatment of schizophrenia by high dose intravenous vitamin C.

    About voices in the head. There is a difference between microwave activated voice transfer to the brain and the kind of voices from demonic entities, which are more like obsessive thoughts which may be mistaken for your own thoughts which you cannot stop from happening. When you determine the difference, which is easy, you make every effort to consciously reprogram your subconscious mind by visualizing the opposite thought and reprimanding the negative thought. Whether this negativity is demonic or your own doing, this is the way to get rid of it. Also, prayers to God or your Guardian Angel will be helpful. Try all of the above. Also go to a naturopathic doctor to check and correct your biochemical/dietary condition.

    God Bless.

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    Default Re: Is the Vedas' version of hell truth...?

    mindbend8r, just make sure you don't end up there. Coming to whatever conclusion, we don't wish to find out where there is one when it's too late. I suggest to err on the side of caution. From all the descriptions throughout the ages - it's perpetual sickness, perpetual suffering, perpetual screaming of billion of souls, perpetual heat, perpetual torture, perpetual loneliness (unable to communicate anything but pain). This is one of the few things that have led me to explore the Christian hope in a moslem country

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