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    Canada Avalon Member Kotch's Avatar
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    Default Voices from the Cosmos

    Hello Avalonians,

    I'm a newbie (today even!) and anxious to share something on a topic close to my heart!
    I recently read an astounding book by C.B.Scott Jones & Angela T. Smith called 'Voices from the Cosmos'. This book was written in the early oughts, and revised in 2014.

    It is based on 3 'wobbly' concepts. (Of course not in my mind, but in the view of 'general consensus' or 'common knowledge'). The first is the reality of non-local consciousness - as in Remote Viewing. Next is the fact of there being intelligent life throughout the Cosmos - including our Solar System. Finally the fact that such life would be interested in communicating with us through RV.

    The researchers have solid bona fides. Both have Ph.D's and Angela Smith worked with Puthoff & Targ (plus Hella Hamid & Ingo Swann) at the SRI program. She was eventually tasked with contacting other intelligent races (I prefer the more accurate term 'species') by an unidentified wealthy & open minded businessman. She did indeed make contact with 18 other species, which makes up the content of the book.

    As an open minded but critical reader, I read this book with my jaw hanging open. I've been following (like many of you) the ET story for several years (was turned on by Leslie Kean's book). I follow Richard Dolan, Grant Cameron, George Knapp and Daniel Liszt primarily. I was fascinated by the recent Joe Rogan - Bob Lazar interview. Felt very real to me although I know not everyone agrees on this.

    The question that jumps to my mind is this:
    Were the entities talking to Smith who they present themselves to be? For example, it is quite possible that a rogue Government program engaged her and was posting some high level disinformation; or a genuine alien intelligence was posing as several groups either in a spirit of having some fun with us primitives or a with a more malevolent motive. This possibility is not entertained within the book and to my mind would have improved its credibility.

    I would LOVE to hear what others think about this, even if you believe that the whole thing is fantasy.

    I would like to add the following that anchors my belief in the fact of intelligent extraterrestrial life:

    i) The known universe is generally considered to be ~13.7 Billion years old.
    ii) Our Solar System is generally considered to be ~4.5 Billion years old (we are a very 'young' system)
    iii) In the very recent past Science has declared that there are probably hundreds of Millions of habitable planets in our Galaxy, plus there are hundreds of millions of Galaxies. These numbers are at the very limits of human understanding.
    iv) Given the above I came to 2 conclusions:
    a) The mathematical probability of us being the only intelligent life in the known universe is extremely low. Is is just highly improbable.
    b) Any alien life from other Solar Systems is quite likely to be much older than us. (not in thousands - more likely millions of years older). Thus their technological and evolutionary systems will quite likely be unrecognisable by us.

    OK, I've spoken too much and want to invite you thoughtful, discriminating and controversial Avalonians to respond!

    Cheers,
    Kotch

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    Welcome! And thanks for the interesting new thread.

    You're following the right people.... and there are a few very smart folks here on Avalon, too. (Seriously. We've provided research material for Richard and Daniel from time to time, and also do a lot of original work of our own.)

    For sure, non-human intelligences (maybe of all kinds) are real. I and most readers here would take that as a given. But here's the big question:

    Quote Posted by Kotch
    Were the entities talking to Smith who they present themselves to be? For example, it is quite possible that a rogue Government program engaged her and was posting some high level disinformation; or a genuine alien intelligence was posing as several groups either in a spirit of having some fun with us primitives or a with a more malevolent motive. This possibility is not entertained within the book and to my mind would have improved its credibility.
    I'd say both are possible. I think there's good reason to suspect that there may be classified advanced technologies that can mimic and impersonate 'ET telepathic contact'. And I'm really sure there are non-human intelligences who may be mischievous, deceitful, manipulative, or worse.

    So the takeaway from this may be to collect all the information, and not rush to judgment. In particular, I'd suggest one needs to look very carefully at the content of the messages:
    1. Are they some kind of baited hook?
    2. Are they urging us to believe something unverifiable?
    3. Are they making promises based on some condition?
    4. Could there be an agenda at play?
    5. Is there any way of checking their veracity?
    6. Are they (as some channelers really do report, amazingly uncritically) interested only in US politics? (That's not a joke... this happens!)

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    UK Avalon Member Sunny-side-up's Avatar
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    Default Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    Hello Kotch and welcome.

    You defiantly sound like your on a good open and stable line of thinking, gratz.

    When ever I here 'the reality of non-local consciousness' I immediately think of 'Ram', Richard, Alan Miller.
    Dr. Richard Alan Miller: Physicist, Author
    I would say going by your intro that you would have come across him already.
    If you haven't
    He describes himself as a 'broken savant' by that he means, he is a very well functioning savant and so broken.
    https://richardalanmiller.weebly.com/about.html

    Alan.
    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
    We need LEADERS who bat from the HEART!
    Rise up above them Dark evil doers, not within anger but with LOVE

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    Ireland Avalon Member aoibhghaire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    Thanks Kotch and welcome to the Avalon forum.

    Although I haven’t read the book, my main concerns are the following:

    1. Interviewers belief system. Interviewer has only had telepathy as a means of communication. Because the communication is very subtle it’s enough to be confused with or be affected by there own belief system.

    2. The belief system in this case is unfortunately the UFO subculture for the past 70 years.

    3. Depending on how soft or hard our belief system, it does prevent clear communications. Belief is a problem for a lot of people without them knowing or aware of the consequences. By softening one’s own beliefs a clearer answer to the truth is possible. However, the key to this issue is working on one’s consciousness from a foundation of being awake and aware. Disconnecting from all beliefs and becoming 'nothing' as a human being. This opens up many possibilities.

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    Canada Avalon Member Kotch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    Bill & Sunny,

    Thanks for your positive feedback. (I'll definitely look into RAM!)

    I love the work of Rupert Sheldrake, Dean Radin at IONS (& of course the late Dr. Edgar Mitchell) and the SRI gang on non-local consciousness.
    In my mind Edgar Mitchell's lecture on the matter is required watching. (He was a hard core scientist and took that approach to the material)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQuFtyruewo&t=480s

    So I agree and take it for granted. As well as being fascinated in the subject of Alien life, I'm also bewitched by the notion of life after death.
    Even more interesting - how does our human spirituality relate to that of other life forms in the universe??
    The issue for me is that this book - if it is both legitimate & accurate - offers enough information to begin to make sense of these questions.

    I desperately want to talk to people who have read this work and share my questions.

    (BTW - I have no relationship with either of the authors or the publisher, am in no way interested in marketing the book.)
    If it is real, then I DON'T UNDERSTAND why no one is talking about this book!

    Cheers, & thanks again!

    Kotch

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    Canada Avalon Member Kotch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    Hi aoibhghaire,

    Thanks for your feedback.

    I totally agree and found the researchers lines of questioning frequently frustrating in their earthbound pragmatism. I believe that the universe is actually an expression of 'intent'.
    Whose intent is obviously a huge question, along with how does our everyday experience jive with the subtle reality.

    Cheers,

    Kotch

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    Default Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    There was a fascinating presentation from last years Energy and Science Conference that sounds like it discussed similar themes to your book. The idea of non-terrestrial intelligence sending messages to humans on earth. This was one of the standout presentations for me from last years line up and I do feel there’s a lot of validity to the idea.

    =======

    Dancing with the Aether
    by jeane manning and Susan Manewich

    “Learn Some Of The Breakthrough Technologies On The Verge Of Being Becoming Available. Also, Data Is Shared Showing What Multiple PhDs Have Discovered About Possible Non-Human Intelligence And Its Influence On The Inspiration & Development of Breakthrough Technologies!”

    REVEALED: Landmark Study Shows Thousands of People Are Being Positively Influenced By Non-Human Intelligence – Straight from some of the Top Academics at Prestigious Universities and Organization.


    This presentation starts with Jeane Manning who has the pulse of free energy technologies across the globe beyond most.

    She will be sharing the basics of what the Aether is, the goal of cheap, clean energy available everywhere, why you don’t have to wait for exotic technologies and what path we are to take with this kind of abundance.

    Some specific technologies are reviewed such as Tewari’s Homopolar Generator tested at 238%, an electric car that recharged itself in some tests in 2016, a water fuel technology that uses about 97% water and a small amount of fuel and it only requires about 170 milliamps at 24 volts, a few plasma technologies and the latest in LENR (cold fusion), and others.

    Get your copy here: http://emediapress.com/manningmanewich/dancing/

    Get 25% off for a limited with with this coupon code: DANCING25

    There is an exciting mention of a new book Jeane is co-authoring with Susan Manewich called Hidden Energy, which will be released in the fall of 2018!

    Susan continues the presentation with another approach on the Aether that is a bit different from Jeane’s and it quite a match. Something very interesting and powerful is the data she shares from a relatively new study that has been ongoing for some time relating to the “Science of Consciousness and Contact.”

    If you’ve ever wondered if spirit can influence inventors, you’re in for a surprise that is backed by multiple, highly-credentialed PhDs. You’ll also learn how the balance of Yin & Yang are crucial to breakthroughs and a serious update on the grassroots movement to support these technologies.

    Some of these topics are highly controversial, but the data is insurmountable and is presented in a way that is balanced and objective. Susan worked with the late Dr. John Mack and she shares some of her experiences working in this most interesting field.

    What does a member of The Monroe Institute, a former head of the US Psychotronics Association, a former Harvard Professor of Astrophysics and editor of the Journal of Cosmology and the late Dr. Edgar Mitchell have in common? Susan Manewich was intimately involved in organizing the data that they all collected based on surveys taken by thousands of people. By analyzing the data, a very revealing picture comes into view and it appears there is non-human intelligence that has been influencing developers of breakthrough technologies.

    Susan also shares a never-before-seen interview with the late Guy Obolensky relating to the power of the mind. She was fortunate to have spent some time with him in his final days.

    Towards the end of the presentation, Susan covers a very important topic on moral responsibility with free energy technologies as they are sacred and should be treated as such. A business model is shared that anyone can use and takes the above concept into consideration.

    There are a fair amount of questions at the end that bring up many important points discussed throughout this presentation.
    =====

    Found a cheaper copy for download ($7)...

    https://aaeon.world/z/academy/exotic...usan-manewich/

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    Default Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    Thanks so much for this post Kotch - I'm an avid reader myself on this subject and had not heard of the book you referenced - I'll definitely be checking it out!
    All great questions you pose - I can only speak for myself and what I've experienced re: my wife's channeling abilities - it doesn't seem plausible to me that rogue government operators or aliens "just having fun" would be communicating with the author. My own belief in extraterrestrial life was re-affirmed when we started communicating with various ET & light beings via channeling - the messages back up that alien life is much older than us - as you surmised, and their technological and evolutionary systems are way beyond human recognition.

    One of the big takeaways I got from the Lazar interview was his re-assertion that even the government really had no idea what they were dealing with back in the late 80s (perhaps they've learned more now, but I wouldn't bet on it).

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    Default Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    Hi Kotch
    Welcome and thanks for the post.

    I believe that it is a foregone conclusion that alien species exist throughout the cosmos. It is fairly well documented throughout ancient times right up through our modern history that mankind has seen and even interacted with these beings. After reaching this conclusion I no longer search for evidence. My thinking has shifted as to why have they not made contact, where are they located and are they friend or foe?

    I have also come to the conclusion that the government knows more than they are letting on but probably less then we think. UFO/Alien disclosure used to be at the top of my list for research and discussion. I now think that these things are not that important. The truth is we do not need the government to disclose information about UFOs or aliens when the time is right they will make themselves known.

    Extraterrestrials that are capable of interstellar travel have made a very conscious decision not to disclose their presence. You can only conclude that their reasons for anonyminity are time tested and valid beyond our comprehension.

    The question then becomes if they are here why not just come forward and announce their presence/existence? There are so many possible answers that speculating cold fill several pages. Here are a few that I believe are the most likely.
    • The earth itself is the prize not necessarily mankind.
    • We have not learned how to prevent war and our existence is not guaranteed
    • We have to subdue the agressive DNA that was built into our genetic code.
    • We have not tamed nuclear power yet, this could be one of our greatest discoveries or it could be our downfall. The jury is still out.
    • Giving us technology or even knowing about its existence could damage mankind and others in the universe.
    • We have to learn to take care of our own environment (in a pristine way) before we are allowed into the greater cosmos.
    • Allowing an aggressive territorial species into the greater cosmos community could wreak havoc with others that already occupy the universe.
    • In essence, we have not evolved enough to be allowed entrance into a community that is surely watching our every move.

    There is little doubt in my mind that we are close to some breakthroughs regarding our knowledge of the universe. It is entirely up to us if we will gain entrance into the greater cosmos. Of course we could push our way in like bullies if we develop the technology. It would be far better to be welcomed with open arms by learning how to take care of our planet and each other.

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    Default Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    The question then becomes if they are here why not just come forward and announce their presence/existence?

    Several of the interviewed species remarked that we are not ready for contact for the usual reasons - too violent, short sighted, destructive, out of touch with our environment.
    All very valid points and no argument from me. The Tall Greys actually stated on several occasions that humans are 'limited'. Other species are just not interested in us. They have their own cosmic order and we don't figure into it (too primitive...)

    This research was completed in 2014. It seems to me there are so many questions I'd like to pose to wiser species - who was Jesus? Budda? Mohammed? etc. I can't believe that this was just left 5 years ago and never followed up...

    Cheers,
    David

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    Default Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    Welcome Kotch,

    Lovely to have you here! And you have me very intrigued about this book. I don't know if I can add anything of value to the ideas that Bill Ryan and others have already posted. Maybe a question to you and other posters here is more in order. We appear to be entering a new era of government backed disclosure. Aside from all the obvious problems inherent in any elite military undertaking of this magnitude, do you wonder if all of the new info, (including the Lazar Rogan interview,) was initiated by the ET?

    Where does the locus of control rest in the disclosure movement?

    Btw, that wealthy individual you mention was probably Bob Bigelow.

    Kerry Cassidy did an amazing interview with a fellow called Marshall Vian Summers, a while back. I think he may turn out to have something valuable to say, as well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9aXk5qBtac

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    Arrow Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    Where does the locus of control rest in the disclosure movement?

    I tend to agree with Richard Dolan on this - the TTSA promoted videos (TICTAC, Gimball, etc) seem to project the idea that ET's are threatening.
    I think TTSA is backed by the alphabet groups (CIA, NSA, etc.) and so the particular 'soft' disclosure that is going on right now is a Gov't (US) program.

    If the book is to be believed, most alien groups feel the same about us - that we are wrong to expect to be bailed out by them and their superior technology. We need to clean up our own act on many levels.
    I don't see much movement on this by the real power groups... Some of the ET's remarked that they have no interest in invading/colonising earth, but that we may eradicate ourselves in our own folly. Apparently this is not unusual in the Galaxy.

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    Default Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    Hi Kotch and welcome!
    Some time ago,I watched this presentation of Angela Smith:

    You Wont Believe What Remote Viewers Saw on Other Planets
    (1:32:32 hrs.)
    Quote Dr. Angela Smith perceived bodies of a thick water-like substance during a viewing of the surface of Jupiter. This detail was subsequently verified as an ocean of liquid hydrogen on that planet. In the early 1990s, she was commissioned to remote view the Rings of Saturn. She perceived anomalies there that have since been verified by the Cassini Probe, which visited Saturn in 2004-and verified again in 2014 by images taken by NASA. Sometimes it takes 20 years to get feedback!

    In 2002, a senior NASA manager contacted Dr. Smith with a request for her remote viewing team to view some almost-defunct space shuttles. Even though they were viewing “blind” (without any details about the target,) the team perceived many specific defects in the shuttles—and one viewer even named the shuttle involved


    and after that,looking for the book,I found the following interview:

    Voices From the Cosmos with Angela T. Smith, Remote Viewer & Author
    (56:41min.)

    Quote I have had a deep fascination with Remote Viewing for over 30 years and am continually impressed with the range of data the viewers can reach into. In this conversation, Angela Smith shares how her early abilities began expressing itself via out-of-body experiences at night to her later involvement with the Amelia Earhart case. In perhaps the most intriguing application of her remote viewing skills, Angela participated in a protocol designed to "interview" races from other planets and dimensions. Among them were the Tall Grays, Small Grays, Annunaki, Nordics, Orbs and Reptilians. (Spoiler Alert! The Reptilians were the least cooperative and forthcoming.) 😊Enjoy! Learn more at: mindwiseconsulting.com


    but before was this radio show:
    C B Scott Jones PHD Voices fron the Cosmos on The Hundredth Monkey Radio Hour One Jan 11 2015
    (1:07:38 hrs.)
    Quote Scott Jones (Voices from the cosmos)
    Jan 11 2015
    Scott Jones has investigated the UFO enigma for over sixty-years, starting at the beginning of his thirty-year navy career as a carrier jet fighter pilot and including fifteen years in naval intelligence with assignments in Europe, India and Washington, D.C. He briefed the President’s Scientific Advisory Committee, and Congressional Armed Services Committee on scientific and technical intelligence. Because of his intelligence experience he was hired by Senator Claiborne Pell, Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, as a Special Assistant with responsibilities to visit global institutes and laboratories involved in consciousness research as it was linked to UFO and ET phenomena. This six-year assignment was particularly fruitful in repeated visits to China and Russia.

    Mr. Laurance Rockefeller hired him after his Capitol Hill work to design a strategy to get the Clinton administration to review the policy of silence and denial on UFOs that it had inherited from previous administrations. A number of meetings with the President’s Science Advisor established that Clinton very likely had not been briefed on this subject. The capstone to his work with Mr. Rockefeller was the May 1995, When Cosmic Cultures Meet Conference held in Washington, D.C.

    Recognizing the link between peace, stability and the challenges and opportunities that disclosure of our ancient and modern history of contact with extraterrestrial cultures will raise, he designed Plan C. The first iteration of Plan C was to recruit global universities to research and write White Papers on the consequences of disclosure to their countries and cultures. Academe showed a face of fear to this opportunity. The feedback was that without political cover this would be a third-rail event for them. Plan C has been modified and a briefing, Cosmic Humanity: Disclosure’s Challenges and Opportunities, is being presented to global elite groups in order to develop political cover for academe to get into the game. This briefing was well received when it was presented to audiences in India.

    A current major program is the Outer Space Security and Development Treaty of 2014. Cosmic Cultures are full parties to this Treaty. It is ready to be signed by nations of the world and will ban all classes of space-based weapons. Details of the Treaty may be seen at www.peaceinspacetreaty.

    His collection of speeches on ETs/UFOs have been published in Phoenix in the Labyrinth, and he edited the Proceedings of the When Cosmic Cultures Meet Conference. His website is www.peaceroom.com
    "Your planet is forbidden for an open visit - extremely aggressive social environment,despite almost perfect climatic conditions.Almost 4 billion violent deaths for the last 5000 years and about 15000 major military conflicts in the same period."

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    Default Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Marshall Vian Summers, a while back. I think he may turn out to have something valuable to say, as well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9aXk5qBtac
    I just had a look at the video - his message is quite different. The tone is that we can't trust certain ET's and that they are currently working to destabilise human life on earth. He has a set of freely downloadable books called The Allies of Humanity available at:

    https://alliesofhumanity.org/home/

    I think I'll take a look...

    Tx again,

    Kotch

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    Default Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    Hello, and welcome!

    Boy, you're hitting all of my favorite topics in one go.

    You're also asking all of the right questions.

    Real quick, for the purposes of discussion, we're going to assume the phenomena is genuine. And what I mean by that, is simply, it isn't a figment of people's imagination, or delusions of the insane, or lies peddled to the fanciful to make money or gain fame or whatever (though there's plenty of that, no doubt!).

    In other words, we're going to go directly against the grain of the mainstream, accepted "skeptical" status quo. This is a safe place to be open about that kind of thing, so no need to try and convince us all it's real. We're all here because we know, something ain't adding up, somewhere, and we want real answers.

    Now, back to topic.

    I haven't any idea how much you know about ETs/contactees/abductees and the litany of related phenomena, but I will say this much: the more you read into this stuff, the more you realize, there's some kind of brainwashing/mind control going on. So many are taken against their will, forcibly impregnated, medically examined in traumatic ways, their memories wiped, and the details kept vague, yet some of the experiencers of this phenomenon are totally convinced that these groups that take them are interested in their highest good and the highest good of humanity.

    Now, I'm certainly not discounting the possibility of that being truth, but the whole thing does smack of Stockholm Syndrome, does it not?

    And then, on the opposite end of the spectrum, you have those that believe that the ETs/entities/beings constitute a grave threat to humanity. Think DeLonge's interviews and TTSA.

    In my opinion, this is just as dangerous.

    Both are emotionally-driven, impulsive, short-sighted mentalities.

    The key, in my opinion, is to remain objective, yet open minded (note: open mindedness does NOT mean you accept everything! New Agers, take note).

    Leave no stone unturned. Discount nothing as impossible. Listen to all, without judgment, without preconceived notions, without some sort of underlying assumptions based off of any kind of belief system. A belief system, in my opinion, is a box.

    A box is inherently limiting.

    To me, this balanced mindset is at the very heart of discernment, which is critical in this field, as well as life in general.

    Anyway, I could go on and on, but I'm going to try and keep it simple (for now!), and answer your questions. I'll probably throw in any sort of observations I had, all in order that I read it, so this might be a little stream-of-consciousness-y.

    Real quick, one thing did immediately jumped out at me. You mentioned that Angela Smith, "... [was] eventually tasked with contacting other intelligent races (I prefer the more accurate term 'species') by an unidentified wealthy & open minded businessman."

    The immediate person that came to mind, for me, was Robert Bigelow. Not sure how familiar you or anyone reading this may be with him, but it does seem like a trail worth following. Of course, not saying it's definitely him, but between his association with TTSA, Skinwalker Ranch, space-faring technology, and all of the things that are intertwined with all of the above...well, who knows. There may be something to be gleaned from that.

    The Devil is in the details, after all. As a manner of speaking, of course. I'm not implying there's anything "demonic" (whatever the hell that even means) about any of this. But, then, again, anything is possible. Remember, leave it all open. Makes it easier to connect obscure dots that way, in my experience.

    Now, as for your questions:

    1) Who's behind the source that Smith was in contact with?

    Ah, that's the Big Question. #1 on my personal list of major, important mysteries.

    I appreciate that you did not outright trust the source 100%. That would be a mistake, in my opinion, same as it would to inherently mistrust it. Again, neutrality is key.

    To me, the contactee phenomenon can only be divided into the following categories in terms of the true origin of the groups they're in contact with (this, of course, assumes that any given example is genuine, which is pretty much impossible to confirm nor deny).

    - Genuine, truthful contact. By that I mean, imagine Susan is being contacted by Ploogaloo, the blue starfish king of a distant star. Ploogaloo says that his people have been watching humanity for eons, that they're very concerned for our spiritual and technological advancement, that they're trying to steer us in the direction of compassion and empathy and oneness with all that is and blah blah blah blah, and that they can't contact humanity as a whole because a) we're not ready for it and b) that would be a violation of their Prime Directive.

    In this imaginary scenario, Ploogaloo really is the bue starfish king of a race of advanced star people, and they really are just concerned for our welfare, and every last word out of him is truthful and honest. This would be very nice to believe, and hell, it could very well be that simple, but to me, it just seems to good to be true...at least entirely.

    - Ploogaloo is actually super negative, and is using a false message to somehow trick/deceive followers, for any number of reasons. Could be to feed off of them somehow, could be to gain influence for some kind of long-term goal, could be to just f*ck with humanity for the hell of it, whatever. Bottom line is, Ploogaloo is a liar, and the true agenda/ultimate goal remains to be seen/cannot yet be understood.

    - Ploogaloo is an imposter, and the real Ploogaloo is not contacting Susan at all. Why Fake Ploogaloo would do this, one could speculate for days and days, but once again, bottom line is, Ploogaloo is a liar, and the true agenda/ultimate goal remains to be seen/cannot yet be understood. Doesn't necessarily make it bad. Maybe Ploogaloo is good, but the identity Ploogaloo makes it easier for our puny little human minds to grasp the core message. Or, maybe Ploogaloo is 'evil' (though, evil is relative). Who knows. It's a toss-up.

    - There is no Ploogaloo. Meaning, it's all some kind of human-controlled, artificial experience. How, what, or why this is, one could also speculate on for days and days, but, as before, the true agenda/ultimate goal remains to be seen/cannot yet be understood.

    So, in other words, 3/4 possibilities are, at best, insidious, and at worst, outright hostile. I suppose there is possibility #5, which is "none of the above", in which case, it's beyond our comprehension. But to keep things simple and on-topic, we'll stick with the 4.

    3/4 chances of it not being outright benevolent doesn't look too good, so, once again, gotta stay neutral. I say neutral, because if #1 is somehow true, then being violent/totally fearful/hostile is very much against the core message that we need to hurry up and evolve past all of this primitive bullsh*t.

    And that, to me, is the crux of it all.

    But, it's also hugely important to keep in mind: who the hell are all of these groups that all of these people are supposedly in contact with? There's so many camps. You have Steven Greer, David Jacobs, Tom DeLonge, John Keel...and so many others in between. Each have different opinions.

    To me, I think the truth is hidden in all of it, in part.

    The fun part is, figuring it out.

    I'm curious as to what your stance is on all of this, Kotch, and whether or not you have personal experiences.

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    Default Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    I haven't any idea how much you know about ETs/contactees/abductees and the litany of related phenomena, but I will say this much: the more you read into this stuff, the more you realize, there's some kind of brainwashing/mind control going on. So many are taken against their will, forcibly impregnated, medically examined in traumatic ways, their memories wiped, and the details kept vague, yet some of the experiencers of this phenomenon are totally convinced that these groups that take them are interested in their highest good and the highest good of humanity.

    I have never had any ET contact experiences (to my knowledge). However, for about the last 20 years or so, I have felt strongly that the reality we see day to day is in essence black & white, whereas the full reality is in glorious colour. I have been actively investigating 'paranormal' issues for about 10 years now, but unfortunately my immediate circle of friends & family think I'm a bit batty. (Crazy uncle David...) I'm aware of the literature on Abductions & the major players in the field (Mack, Hopkins, Jacobs, Marden) I'm also aware of the dichotomy in opinions on this topic.

    Now, I'm certainly not discounting the possibility of that being truth, but the whole thing does smack of Stockholm Syndrome, does it not? The book states emphatically that these abductions are for the benefit of Humanity. Not sure I agree...

    And then, on the opposite end of the spectrum, you have those that believe that the ETs/entities/beings constitute a grave threat to humanity. Think DeLonge's interviews and TTSA.
    Not sure I believe this program - in particular not the TTSA model.

    In my opinion, this is just as dangerous. Agreed!

    Both are emotionally-driven, impulsive, short-sighted mentalities.

    The key, in my opinion, is to remain objective, yet open minded (note: open mindedness does NOT mean you accept everything! New Agers, take note). Agreed!

    Leave no stone unturned. Discount nothing as impossible. Listen to all, without judgment, without preconceived notions, without some sort of underlying assumptions based off of any kind of belief system. A belief system, in my opinion, is a box.

    A box is inherently limiting. All good here!

    To me, this balanced mindset is at the very heart of discernment, which is critical in this field, as well as life in general.

    Anyway, I could go on and on, but I'm going to try and keep it simple (for now!), and answer your questions. I'll probably throw in any sort of observations I had, all in order that I read it, so this might be a little stream-of-consciousness-y.

    Real quick, one thing did immediately jumped out at me. You mentioned that Angela Smith, "... [was] eventually tasked with contacting other intelligent races (I prefer the more accurate term 'species') by an unidentified wealthy & open minded businessman."

    The immediate person that came to mind, for me, was Robert Bigelow. Not sure how familiar you or anyone reading this may be with him, but it does seem like a trail worth following. Of course, not saying it's definitely him, but between his association with TTSA, Skinwalker Ranch, space-faring technology, and all of the things that are intertwined with all of the above...well, who knows. There may be something to be gleaned from that.

    I'm very familiar with Bigelow - in particular the SKinWalker ranch stuff & NIDS. Wouldn't surprise me at all...

    The Devil is in the details, after all. As a manner of speaking, of course. I'm not implying there's anything "demonic" (whatever the hell that even means) about any of this. But, then, again, anything is possible. Remember, leave it all open. Makes it easier to connect obscure dots that way, in my experience.

    I'm uncomfortable with the 'demonic' characterization, I can get my head around there being dark forces & entities at play without the need to incorporate the notion of fallen angels or a JudeoChristian spin.

    Now, as for your questions:

    1) Who's behind the source that Smith was in contact with?

    Ah, that's the Big Question. #1 on my personal list of major, important mysteries.

    I appreciate that you did not outright trust the source 100%. That would be a mistake, in my opinion, same as it would to inherently mistrust it. Again, neutrality is key.

    To me, the contactee phenomenon can only be divided into the following categories in terms of the true origin of the groups they're in contact with (this, of course, assumes that any given example is genuine, which is pretty much impossible to confirm nor deny).

    - Genuine, truthful contact. By that I mean, imagine Susan is being contacted by Ploogaloo, the blue starfish king of a distant star. Ploogaloo says that his people have been watching humanity for eons, that they're very concerned for our spiritual and technological advancement, that they're trying to steer us in the direction of compassion and empathy and oneness with all that is and blah blah blah blah, and that they can't contact humanity as a whole because a) we're not ready for it and b) that would be a violation of their Prime Directive.

    In this imaginary scenario, Ploogaloo really is the bue starfish king of a race of advanced star people, and they really are just concerned for our welfare, and every last word out of him is truthful and honest. This would be very nice to believe, and hell, it could very well be that simple, but to me, it just seems to good to be true...at least entirely.

    - Ploogaloo is actually super negative, and is using a false message to somehow trick/deceive followers, for any number of reasons. Could be to feed off of them somehow, could be to gain influence for some kind of long-term goal, could be to just f*ck with humanity for the hell of it, whatever. Bottom line is, Ploogaloo is a liar, and the true agenda/ultimate goal remains to be seen/cannot yet be understood.

    - Ploogaloo is an imposter, and the real Ploogaloo is not contacting Susan at all. Why Fake Ploogaloo would do this, one could speculate for days and days, but once again, bottom line is, Ploogaloo is a liar, and the true agenda/ultimate goal remains to be seen/cannot yet be understood. Doesn't necessarily make it bad. Maybe Ploogaloo is good, but the identity Ploogaloo makes it easier for our puny little human minds to grasp the core message. Or, maybe Ploogaloo is 'evil' (though, evil is relative). Who knows. It's a toss-up.

    - There is no Ploogaloo. Meaning, it's all some kind of human-controlled, artificial experience. How, what, or why this is, one could also speculate on for days and days, but, as before, the true agenda/ultimate goal remains to be seen/cannot yet be understood.

    So, in other words, 3/4 possibilities are, at best, insidious, and at worst, outright hostile. I suppose there is possibility #5, which is "none of the above", in which case, it's beyond our comprehension. But to keep things simple and on-topic, we'll stick with the 4.

    3/4 chances of it not being outright benevolent doesn't look too good, so, once again, gotta stay neutral. I say neutral, because if #1 is somehow true, then being violent/totally fearful/hostile is very much against the core message that we need to hurry up and evolve past all of this primitive bullsh*t.

    Again, I agree. This is why I want to talk to others about this. The more critical eyes on this material the more it can be intelligently parsed.

    And that, to me, is the crux of it all.

    But, it's also hugely important to keep in mind: who the hell are all of these groups that all of these people are supposedly in contact with? There's so many camps. You have Steven Greer, David Jacobs, Tom DeLonge, John Keel...and so many others in between. Each have different opinions.

    To me, I think the truth is hidden in all of it, in part. Unfortunately, I agree again!!

    The fun part is, figuring it out.

    I'm curious as to what your stance is on all of this, Kotch, and whether or not you have personal experiences.
    Many thanks for your thoughtful reply! I have tried to interject my thoughts - not sure it will be clear above.

    Cheers,
    Kotch

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    Default Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    I have never had any ET contact experiences (to my knowledge). However, for about the last 20 years or so, I have felt strongly that the reality we see day to day is in essence black & white, whereas the full reality is in glorious colour. I have been actively investigating 'paranormal' issues for about 10 years now, but unfortunately my immediate circle of friends & family think I'm a bit batty. (Crazy uncle David...) I'm aware of the literature on Abductions & the major players in the field (Mack, Hopkins, Jacobs, Marden) I'm also aware of the dichotomy in opinions on this topic.

    The book states emphatically that these abductions are for the benefit of Humanity. Not sure I agree...

    And then, on the opposite end of the spectrum, you have those that believe that the ETs/entities/beings constitute a grave threat to humanity. Think DeLonge's interviews and TTSA.

    Not sure I believe this program - in particular not the TTSA model.

    I'm very familiar with Bigelow - in particular the SKinWalker ranch stuff & NIDS. Wouldn't surprise me at all..

    I'm uncomfortable with the 'demonic' characterization, I can get my head around there being dark forces & entities at play without the need to incorporate the notion of fallen angels or a JudeoChristian spin.

    3/4 chances of it not being outright benevolent doesn't look too good, so, once again, gotta stay neutral. I say neutral, because if #1 is somehow true, then being violent/totally fearful/hostile is very much against the core message that we need to hurry up and evolve past all of this primitive bullsh*t.

    Again, I agree. This is why I want to talk to others about this. The more critical eyes on this material the more it can be intelligently parsed.

    To me, I think the truth is hidden in all of it, in part.
    Unfortunately, I agree again!!

    Thanks very much for the thoughtful response and I hope we can get more people to look at this and offer their thoughts...

    Oops - looks like I have double posted. Feel free to read the most cogent one!
    Cheers,

    Kotch

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    Default Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    Mike Adams of Natural News is stepping it up, I think he raises very good points. Is Earth currently under Attack to take down humanity?

    https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-07-...humankind.html

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    Default Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    All of the above could be true - and probably is.

    Looking at this with an open mind, we must consider that there are many different ET races involved.

    Good guys, bad guys, neutral. How many just waiting around to see what happens next?

    Wouldn't it be great to have a seat at their round table discussion and hear what they have to say about us and each other.

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    Default Re: Voices from the Cosmos

    Quote Posted by Kotch (here)
    I have never had any ET contact experiences (to my knowledge). However, for about the last 20 years or so, I have felt strongly that the reality we see day to day is in essence black & white, whereas the full reality is in glorious colour. I have been actively investigating 'paranormal' issues for about 10 years now, but unfortunately my immediate circle of friends & family think I'm a bit batty. (Crazy uncle David...) I'm aware of the literature on Abductions & the major players in the field (Mack, Hopkins, Jacobs, Marden) I'm also aware of the dichotomy in opinions on this topic
    Have you ever heard of the ‘Imaginal Realm’?
    Quote I cannot emphasize strongly enough that the word imaginal does not mean “imaginary.” That unfortunate but all too understandable confusion was created by Henry Corbin, the noted Islamic scholar, when he introduced the term Mundus Imaginalis to name that intermediate, invisible realm of causality that figures so prominently in mystical Islamic cosmology. But Corbin was drawing here on a highly technical and quintessentially Islamic notion of Imagination as itself one of those higher and more subtle energies, possessing being, will, objectivity, and creative function. To our modern Western ears, the word “imaginal” may indeed seem to suggest some private, interior, or subjective inner landscape, “make-believe” or fanciful by nature. But while it is typically associated with the world of dreams, visions, and prophecy—i.e., more subtle form—the imaginal is always understood within traditional metaphysics to be objectively real and in fact comprising “an ontological reality entirely superior to that of mere possibility.” (Gospel of Mary Magdalene, p. 153.) It designates a sphere that is not less real but more real than our so-called “objective reality” and whose generative energy can (and does) change the course of events in this world. Small though it may appear to be, it is mighty, as those who try to swim against it will readily attest.
    It’s known as a world of “supreme variety and wonder”, the Egyptian funeral rites were designed so that the pharaohs could actually spend longer in this imaginal, ‘archetypal’ realm of technicolour splendour and wonder, before returning to the earthly ‘material’ abode of impermanence, death and decay for another round of reincarnation. (Source: Stephen Skinner).

    I’d also really recommend Jocelyn Godwin’s The Golden Thread: Ageless Wisdom of the Western Mystery Traditions. And also Freddy Silvas ‘Lost Art of Resurrection’ — who both paint a really beautiful and vivid picture of the spiritual majesty found within this realm between heaven and earth. (Especially Godwins golden thread book).

    Last edited by Jayke; 2nd July 2019 at 11:52.

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