The 'censorship' discussion

[AutumnW]

Bubu,

Avalon was becoming recruitment platform for a cult based on a hoax. Not something Avalon should be seen as endorsing. And as it always sat at the very top of the New Posts page, it was looking like that

It can take years and a lot of damage before people learn from their mistakes, if ever.

[mojo]

Wanted to add a critical point....
I too wish to hear Dennis' voice on the forum even though we disagree on points of view and others with the same philosophy as him. There's an old Proverb that has stuck in my mind...

As iron sharpens iron,
so one person sharpens another.

[Aragorn]

Posted by PurpleLama (here)
Keep in mind, on Aragorn's forum, all Q threads are under the subforum "known hoaxes", so his assessments are rather unadmittedly slanted around this whole issue.

Now that's what I call "putting an insidious spin on things" ─ shoot the messenger, rather than the message, right?

If you want to throw The One Truth into this equation, then I'd appreciate it if you were at least being honest about the facts.

• First of all, The One Truth is not my forum. The owner of the forum, for those who do not know this, is a man named Malcolm Taylor ─ with the colorful screen name The One ─ and you know this very well. In fact, you yourself were already a member at The One Truth long before I ever knew that it existed.

• Secondly, I don't run The One Truth on my own. Apart from Malc ─ who, granted, doesn't spend a lot of time online anymore, but he does still speak his mind when it comes to important matters, such as the abuse of The One Truth by your friend turiya as a platform for outspoken far-right propaganda and hate speech ─ I work with four other team members, and we always decide on things as a team.

• Thirdly, in spite of the obvious denial of the facts among many members here at Project Avalon ─ and the same denial that also still lives on in one or possibly two of the members at The One Truth ─ our information was sufficiently convincing to classify the whole QAnon phenomenon as a LARP that turned into a psyop when one of the individuals posting as Q at the 8Chan message board was contacted by an agent of the Israeli intelligence.
  
  All of our staff members were in agreement on that. Ergo, we've put the QAnon thread under our Proven Hoaxes & Misinformation category, along with turiya's propaganda threads. Nevertheless, the main QAnon thread over at The One Truth still remains open and is also still regularly being posted to, albeit at a far lower frequency than is the case here at Project Avalon, because ─ I repeat ─ only one or possibly two of our members are interested in that stuff.

[janus]

Are we or are we not all sovereign beings having a right to our individual beliefs?

When does trying to force one's will and beliefs on others ever work? ever cause anything other than division, ill will, anger?

It's like nothing but full and complete capitulation to someone else's viewpoint is unacceptable...and so, the battle continues...and we all lose...PA most of all.

[PurpleLama]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
It's strange that there is an easy consensus around the Blue Chicken cult and Emery Smith's bogus material, but there is a stubborn resistance by Q-cultists to recognize Q-anon is just as silly and even more counter-productive.

It's astonishing to me that simply making hoax material for members only has engendered such howls of anguish and sorrow. It's as if Bill Ryan has stolen a Mormon's sacred underpants and forbidden them from going door to door.

Some people have to just get a grip and get a life!

There is a wise old saying about not picking the speck out of your brother's eye before pulling the log out of your own eye. Your comments seem especially unhelpful, which I am coming to expect from you. Take a few steps back and reassess your relationship to this community before offering any more invectives, please.

[greybeard]

Posted by edina (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
Seems that Q ,in disguise , is still occupying most of the space on the front page of the forum--- smiling
Chris

This conversation is supposed to be about censorship.

It seems Bill is considering some changes in how the forum will operate.

I think he's putting this out to listen to people's thoughts on the issue.

The action taken regarding the Q threads seemed to have served as a catalyst for rethinking and maybe re-imagining Avalon.

It's understandable the catalyst for the topic would slip into the topic itself.

I may add I consider this a very healthy process.

I honestly dont thing its censorship as any member can fully discuss Q
Non members can join.
I could point out that the mass of Q pots were pushing other interesting subjects of the main page--if you werent quick you would miss something new of note.

I really dont mind but I do feel that the warring factions on that thread created a situation where Bill and the mods are much discussion decided to move the thread.
They brought it on their own head and now shout "This should not be"
Long term members leaving.
Its down to respect.
Any post including this one, will be subject to an opposing point of view--thats fine but civility costs nothing.
Chris

[PurpleLama]

Posted by Aragorn (here)

Posted by PurpleLama (here)
Keep in mind, on Aragorn's forum, all Q threads are under the subforum "known hoaxes", so his assessments are rather unadmittedly slanted around this whole issue.

Now that's what I call "putting an insidious spin on things" ─ shoot the messenger, rather than the message, right?

If you want to throw The One Truth into this equation, then I'd appreciate it if you were at least being honest about the facts.

• First of all, The One Truth is not my forum. The owner of the forum, for those who do not know this, is a man named Malcolm Taylor ─ with the colorful screen name The One ─ and you know this very well. In fact, you yourself were already a member at The One Truth long before I ever knew that it existed.

• Secondly, I don't run The One Truth on my own. Apart from Malc ─ who, granted, doesn't spend a lot of time online anymore, but he does still speak his mind when it comes to important matters, such as the abuse of The One Truth by your friend turiya as a platform for outspoken far-right propaganda and hate speech ─ I work with four other team members, and we always decide on things as a team.

• Thirdly, in spite of the obvious denial of the facts among many members here at Project Avalon ─ and the same denial that also still lives on in one or possibly two of the members at The One Truth ─ our information was sufficiently convincing to classify the whole QAnon phenomenon as a LARP that turned into a psyop when one of the individuals posting as Q at the 8Chan message board was contacted by an agent of the Israeli intelligence.
  
  All of our staff members were in agreement on that. Ergo, we've put the QAnon thread under our Proven Hoaxes & Misinformation category, along with turiya's propaganda threads. Nevertheless, the main QAnon thread over at The One Truth still remains open and is also still regularly being posted to, albeit at a far lower frequency than is the case here at Project Avalon, because ─ I repeat ─ only one or possibly two of our members are interested in that stuff.

I understand you well, Aragorn. I don't expect you to see past your own biases and opinions in regard to the whole matter, my point was salient enough to start with. You have many characteristics I admire, but unfortunately I can not say so without some qualification. I see propaganda coming from the left and the right, readily enough. I would just as soon not discuss politics, especially American politics, with you, so as to maintain a healthy aquaintance. Others on this board might not realize how entrenched your own perspective is around the matter, hence my passing remark, as it isn't really a secret over on TOT.

[edina]

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by edina (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
Seems that Q ,in disguise , is still occupying most of the space on the front page of the forum--- smiling
Chris

This conversation is supposed to be about censorship.

It seems Bill is considering some changes in how the forum will operate.

I think he's putting this out to listen to people's thoughts on the issue.

The action taken regarding the Q threads seemed to have served as a catalyst for rethinking and maybe re-imagining Avalon.

It's understandable the catalyst for the topic would slip into the topic itself.

I may add I consider this a very healthy process.

I could point out that the mass of Q pots were pushing other interesting subjects of the main page--if you werent quick you would miss something new of note.

I'm not sure what you're saying is accurate.

The Q thread was just one thread. Then later a couple of more added. 3 threads, tops.

And new posts to each thread, would only update that thread.

On the main page, there are many threads listed. Many.

On the new posts page there are even more threads listed, and it goes on for many pages.

I often click through all those pages to get a sense of what's been posted.

New posts and especially new threads never miss my attention when I look for them.

That said, I use the subscription function of the forum to keep myself focused.

Often I have time to only look at what I have subscribed to. It's super efficient.

[YoYoYo]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
...
In my opinion, the Q thread is ruined, permanently toxic because it did not allow dissent
...

I couldn't agree more. With unmitigated scepticism I could seriously enjoy the Q phenomenon. Sound strange? Feels exactly right. But without the distance dissent would give me, I fight to get that distance. I'm an ignorant and obtuse dreamer: I hope both sides can go back to forum public one day. Before possibly loosely affirming a protocol that agreeing to disagree is probably OK, combined with awareness of hit and run posting (it's value and when it goes wrong). I'm still thinking the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train though, but it might be a party train. And it's a polite, brave as it can muster and honest to a fault train. Thanks for sharing your perspective on this painful, traumatic errr.. episode? chapter? series? bull****?

[Bubu]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Bubu,

Avalon was becoming recruitment platform for a cult based on a hoax. Not something Avalon should be seen as endorsing. And as it always sat at the very top of the New Posts page, it was looking like that

It can take years and a lot of damage before people learn from their mistakes, if ever.

I have thought of that too. But I think hiding it will hamper learning more than help. In fact people often only learn when damage been done.

[Bubu]

There was some mention of Paul being "nice and missed". I just want to mention this for reminders. Let's not forget that one of the forums nicest members was retired recently for deliberately causing troubles. The wolf will normally wear a sheeps clothing ... I normally look for intent than niceness. That being said I dont have any regret for loosing Paul.

Back to topic.

[Ratszinger]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Bubu,

Avalon was becoming recruitment platform for a cult based on a hoax. Not something Avalon should be seen as endorsing. And as it always sat at the very top of the New Posts page, it was looking like that

It can take years and a lot of damage before people learn from their mistakes, if ever.

All imagination not based on fact at all! Live in fear much? What was Goode and Wilcock and what is Gaia TV but much of the same? Based on this logic the entire forum should be shut down for being controversial and prone to being taken over by cults! Grow up! What are we helpless children now? You all are pathetic wimps! Seriously! Grow a pair!

[Mike]

Posted by Bubu (here)
I found it interesting that the Q threads were move to members only right after Q was proven hoax beyond doubt. I am against any form of hiding. Including Q thread and I am anti Q right from start. "Let the children learn from their mistakes as long as it does not put them in grave danger". that's is one of my principles which I think applies to Q phenom as well. Is Q putting members in grave danger?

No to all banning, political or otherwise. Let the members learn from experience rather than curtail freedom which is wrong beyond doubt.

So my question to myself; What did I learn from this?

Bubu, thanks for that. I do understand where you're coming from.

Ok, let's just say Q is a hoax for a moment. You suggested we let the members go thru the process of making the mistake of indulging that material.

But for how long? And at what cost?

What if the members indulging the hoax grow in numbers, and, while they're sorting out the Q thing, begin taking over the energy of the entire forum....causing many long standing members to leave?

What then?

I appreciate your sentiment but it's not quite as cut and dry as it may seem

[Aragorn]

Posted by PurpleLama (here)

Posted by Aragorn (here)

Posted by PurpleLama (here)
Keep in mind, on Aragorn's forum, all Q threads are under the subforum "known hoaxes", so his assessments are rather unadmittedly slanted around this whole issue.

Now that's what I call "putting an insidious spin on things" ─ shoot the messenger, rather than the message, right?

If you want to throw The One Truth into this equation, then I'd appreciate it if you were at least being honest about the facts.

• First of all, The One Truth is not my forum. The owner of the forum, for those who do not know this, is a man named Malcolm Taylor ─ with the colorful screen name The One ─ and you know this very well. In fact, you yourself were already a member at The One Truth long before I ever knew that it existed.

• Secondly, I don't run The One Truth on my own. Apart from Malc ─ who, granted, doesn't spend a lot of time online anymore, but he does still speak his mind when it comes to important matters, such as the abuse of The One Truth by your friend turiya as a platform for outspoken far-right propaganda and hate speech ─ I work with four other team members, and we always decide on things as a team.

• Thirdly, in spite of the obvious denial of the facts among many members here at Project Avalon ─ and the same denial that also still lives on in one or possibly two of the members at The One Truth ─ our information was sufficiently convincing to classify the whole QAnon phenomenon as a LARP that turned into a psyop when one of the individuals posting as Q at the 8Chan message board was contacted by an agent of the Israeli intelligence.
  
  All of our staff members were in agreement on that. Ergo, we've put the QAnon thread under our Proven Hoaxes & Misinformation category, along with turiya's propaganda threads. Nevertheless, the main QAnon thread over at The One Truth still remains open and is also still regularly being posted to, albeit at a far lower frequency than is the case here at Project Avalon, because ─ I repeat ─ only one or possibly two of our members are interested in that stuff.

I understand you well, Aragorn. I don't expect you to see past your own biases and opinions in regard to the whole matter, my point was salient enough to start with.

And here you go, doing it again, PurpleLama. My "own biases and opinions". What you are doing here, and what you did in your other post that I was replying to ─ and as is still quoted-in here-above ─ is raising a not-so-subtle innuendo among the Project Avalon members who do not know me, and/or who do not know The One Truth. And for that matter, it is an untruthful innuendo ─ I believe it even qualifies as gaslighting.

Posted by PurpleLama (here)
You have many characteristics I admire, but unfortunately I can not say so without some qualification. I see propaganda coming from the left and the right, readily enough. I would just as soon not discuss politics, especially American politics, with you, so as to maintain a healthy aquaintance. Others on this board might not realize how entrenched your own perspective is around the matter, hence my passing remark, as it isn't really a secret over on TOT.

"How entrenched my own perspective is"? More gaslighting? Look, I don't care much for politics, and I certainly don't care much for US-centric matters either. And when it comes to The One Truth, then when someone posts left-wing propaganda ─ and it has already happened, even though not even by a long shot comparable to the infestation with right-wing propaganda that we've had to fight off ─ then that person will also be put in their place, and by myself personally.

Propaganda is propaganda, period, and neither Malc, nor I myself, nor any of our other staff members will allow The One Truth to be used for any kind of propaganda. I have actually even already banned someone for posting ─ or rather, spamming ─ Islamic propaganda.

There is news, there is research, there are opinions, and then there is propaganda. All four of those things are distinct concepts. And if you're going to accuse me of being opinionated in this matter, then you should first and foremost acknowledge that you too have your "opinions and biases" in that very same matter ─ as does everyone. In the end, all of individuated life is subjective ─ thesis and antithesis ─ and only the Source is objective, because Source is the sole holder of ultimate synthesis.

The best we can do is try and obtain a neutral and as-objective-as-possible outlook. And unfortunately ─ and now this puts us back onto the topic of this thread ─ there are all too many people whose personal political preferences and lack of an international perspective cause them to rebel against the host of the house where they are guests.

Only a few days ago, and on another thread, I was chewed up and spat out because of a photo of Bill that had been posted at The One Truth by another member in the past ─ a photo of which it was claimed that it had been doctored, while (as I've been able to ascertain in the meantime) the link to that photo actually points to the Project Avalon server itself ─ and I was told that if the person who chewed me up and spat me out had been the owner of The One Truth, then they would have kicked me off of the forum.

And yet at the same time, there is another person here who threatened to "finish off" Project Avalon on their blog if the QAnon threads are not made public again, and this person is allowed to remain a member here? If anyone were to utter such a threat over at The One Truth, then I would personally kick them off the forum.

Now there is a perspective for you, Purple One. Foodses for thoughtses, Preciousss.



Addendum: I find it quite telling that ─ just as over at The One Truth ─ the Thanks button always ends up being used as a means to let one's passive-aggressiveness seep through. I've only been back for a short while, and yet it is always the same people who will not thank my posts while eagerly thanking the posts of the people who disagree with me.

Here's a hint for the petty-minded: it's a "thanks" button, not a "like" button.

[Constance]

Posted by Bubu (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Bubu,

Avalon was becoming recruitment platform for a cult based on a hoax. Not something Avalon should be seen as endorsing. And as it always sat at the very top of the New Posts page, it was looking like that

It can take years and a lot of damage before people learn from their mistakes, if ever.

I have thought of that too. But I think hiding it will hamper learning more than help. In fact people often only learn when damage been done.

There are two ways we can learn, through suffering or inspiration.

[edina]

Posted by Constance (here)

Posted by Bubu (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Bubu,

Avalon was becoming recruitment platform for a cult based on a hoax. Not something Avalon should be seen as endorsing. And as it always sat at the very top of the New Posts page, it was looking like that

It can take years and a lot of damage before people learn from their mistakes, if ever.

I have thought of that too. But I think hiding it will hamper learning more than help. In fact people often only learn when damage been done.

There are two ways we can learn, through suffering or inspiration.

Humans learn best by discovering for themselves.

This can be done through many methods.

It's uncanny because where others are seeing a "cult" or "hoax", I see people becoming "inspired".

It's possible that the high-energy of the Q movement is coming from people doing their own research and in doing so discovering for themselves what many of us have discovered in our own journeys.

Inspiration is a higher energy state, for sure.

[PurpleLama]

The best we can do is try and obtain a neutral and as-objective-as-possible outlook. And unfortunately ─ and now this puts us back onto the topic of this thread ─ there are all too many people whose personal political preferences and lack of an international perspective cause them to rebel against the host of the house where they are guests.

The problem is, it is all a matter of perspective. What I see on tot is anything right wing being deemed as propaganda, while left wing propaganda reigns unchecked, by members and staff alike. Perhaps you have your own precious, that you've yet to recognize.

I know you are a good dude. If I really wanted to gaslight you, I would just make a long post about the correlation between vaccines and autism.*. Seriously, though, a lot of people rightly accuse people on either side of a debate of wearing blinders, all the while ignoring their own. Recognizing one's own biases while approaching a discussion is laudable, and I how we can each do that as we continue this discussion of what is or isn't censorship, and what should or shouldn't be allowed in the realm of public forum discourse.

*This is just an overt poke at Aragorn, meant to be a joke and not to introduce another topic into the thread.

Addendum:. Just because you happen to agree/disagree with something does not mean it is/isn't propaganda.

[PurpleLama]

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by Bubu (here)
I found it interesting that the Q threads were move to members only right after Q was proven hoax beyond doubt. I am against any form of hiding. Including Q thread and I am anti Q right from start. "Let the children learn from their mistakes as long as it does not put them in grave danger". that's is one of my principles which I think applies to Q phenom as well. Is Q putting members in grave danger?

No to all banning, political or otherwise. Let the members learn from experience rather than curtail freedom which is wrong beyond doubt.

So my question to myself; What did I learn from this?

Bubu, thanks for that. I do understand where you're coming from.

Ok, let's just say Q is a hoax for a moment. You suggested we let the members go thru the process of making the mistake of indulging that material.

But for how long? And at what cost?

What if the members indulging the hoax grow in numbers, and, while they're sorting out the Q thing, begin taking over the energy of the entire forum....causing many long standing members to leave?

What then?

I appreciate your sentiment but it's not quite as cut and dry as it may seem

From my own perspective, I see a very small number of people very energetically for or against Q, while the rest of the forum seems to run on without impediment.

[edina]

Posted by PurpleLama (here)

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by Bubu (here)
I found it interesting that the Q threads were move to members only right after Q was proven hoax beyond doubt. I am against any form of hiding. Including Q thread and I am anti Q right from start. "Let the children learn from their mistakes as long as it does not put them in grave danger". that's is one of my principles which I think applies to Q phenom as well. Is Q putting members in grave danger?

No to all banning, political or otherwise. Let the members learn from experience rather than curtail freedom which is wrong beyond doubt.

So my question to myself; What did I learn from this?

Bubu, thanks for that. I do understand where you're coming from.

Ok, let's just say Q is a hoax for a moment. You suggested we let the members go thru the process of making the mistake of indulging that material.

But for how long? And at what cost?

What if the members indulging the hoax grow in numbers, and, while they're sorting out the Q thing, begin taking over the energy of the entire forum....causing many long standing members to leave?

What then?

I appreciate your sentiment but it's not quite as cut and dry as it may seem

From my own perspective, I see a very small number of people very energetically for or against Q, while the rest of the forum seems to run on without impediment.

Thanks PurpleLama, my life is much larger than the Avalon forum.

I'm talking about the Q movement as a whole.

And I agree, the forum seems to run quite well.

I never saw the "impediment".

[Aragorn]

Posted by PurpleLama (here)

The best we can do is try and obtain a neutral and as-objective-as-possible outlook. And unfortunately ─ and now this puts us back onto the topic of this thread ─ there are all too many people whose personal political preferences and lack of an international perspective cause them to rebel against the host of the house where they are guests.

The problem is, it is all a matter of perspective. What I see on tot is anything right wing being deemed as propaganda, while left wing propaganda reigns unchecked, by members and staff alike

That is not true. But perhaps you maintain another definition of propaganda. We have no objections to opinions being posted ─ the discussions that spring from opinions are always food for thought, and everyone benefits from that ─ but propaganda is biased and misleading information. And when that gets posted at The One Truth, then we will object to it, whether it's left, right, up or down.

On the other hand, in turiya's case, it was overt propaganda, and there was no discussion whatsoever, nor did he abide by the staff's requests (and later, insistence) to stop doing it. He simply flipped us the bird and carried on. And whenever we then closed down whatever thread he was posting propaganda to, he would then quickly start an innocent and unrelated thread as a diversion tactic, and then by the next day already, he would continue building up the propaganda again on yet other, already existing threads that he himself hadn't even started. So there was no alternative but to ban him. He was disfiguring our front door, and he was flipping us the bird on account of the rules of the house.

The people who post left-wing stuff ─ and occasionally left-wing propaganda ─ are being slapped on the wrist just the same, but the difference is that they then acknowledge that they've gone too far, and they will refrain from doing it again ─ barring an occasional slip-up. But that's a long way from an endless and non-stop stream of far-right propaganda being posted, including hate speech and offensive cartoons, and it is an equally long way from people who respect neither the rules of the house nor the members of the staff.