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Thread: The 'censorship' discussion

  1. Link to Post #201
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    If we are really into defeating these people I would suggest a full read of Shadowmans book here.
    Once he has set the context so you can see where he is coming from
    He outlines how we can change the situation thats gone on since time began.
    He speaks of all the things that Dennis has mentioned.
    Believe what he says or not--I trust him.
    Chris

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1300538
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by PurpleLama (here)
    Quote Posted by Aragorn (here)
    Quote Posted by PurpleLama (here)
    Quote The best we can do is try and obtain a neutral and as-objective-as-possible outlook. And unfortunately ─ and now this puts us back onto the topic of this thread ─ there are all too many people whose personal political preferences and lack of an international perspective cause them to rebel against the host of the house where they are guests.
    The problem is, it is all a matter of perspective. What I see on tot is anything right wing being deemed as propaganda, while left wing propaganda reigns unchecked, by members and staff alike
    That is not true. But perhaps you maintain another definition of propaganda. We have no objections to opinions being posted ─ the discussions that spring from opinions are always food for thought, and everyone benefits from that ─ but propaganda is biased and misleading information. And when that gets posted at The One Truth, then we will object to it, whether it's left, right, up or down.

    On the other hand, in turiya's case, it was overt propaganda, and there was no discussion whatsoever, nor did he abide by the staff's requests (and later, insistence) to stop doing it. He simply flipped us the bird and carried on. And whenever we then closed down whatever thread he was posting propaganda to, he would then quickly start an innocent and unrelated thread as a diversion tactic, and then by the next day already, he would continue building up the propaganda again on yet other, already existing threads that he himself hadn't even started. So there was no alternative but to ban him. He was disfiguring our front door, and he was flipping us the bird on account of the rules of the house.

    The people who post left-wing stuff ─ and occasionally left-wing propaganda ─ are being slapped on the wrist just the same, but the difference is that they then acknowledge that they've gone too far, and they will refrain from doing it again ─ barring an occasional slip-up. But that's a long way from an endless and non-stop stream of far-right propaganda being posted, including hate speech and offensive cartoons, and it is an equally long way from people who respect neither the rules of the house nor the members of the staff.
    I know you mean well. I also know you don't know what I'm pointing at. Really, it's fine, either way.

    My own views tend to run the spectrum of any given debate, I care a lot about the environment but I think anthropormophic climate change is propaganda, just by way of example.

    I believe a lot in personal freedom, specifically the first amendment, and I don't believe in hate speech as violence, rather I am more concerned with the violence of antifa against the proponents of free speech, yet I believe absolutely in the right of antifa to argue their views in a non-violent manner.

    I believe in what is endowed in the individual human spirit, and all of it's manifold expressions, and I wouldn't squash it for anything as long as it does not infringe on the rights of another.

    I am perfectly willing to give you or anyone the benefit of a doubt, but at the same time I will call it as I see it. You are welcome to ascribe to me any attributes you perceive as well, and perhaps we we'll find some meeting of the minds. I am not especially hopeful, but life is full of surprises.

    While we sit here tap tap tapping away on keyboards, there's a whole world out there needing our attention, and rather than argue about what is or isn't propaganda, we should be analyzing both to work on our solutions of where do we go from here.

    Leftist neoliberal (corporate controlled) governments have had their heyday, and there is a rise of populism as a result. Populism isn't right or left, regardless of the propaganda to the contrary




    Bumpety, bumpety bump this meaningful, articulate post to the toppppp!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Maybe, just maybe, we should find out from Bill what his forum platform is about. Hint: it's about fighting AGAINST the cabal, not picking out our favorite cabal member, ignoring all their actual deeds, worshiping them, and putting ribbons in their hair DENNIS LEAHY

    Thank you!!

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  7. Link to Post #204
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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Greetings All,

    I've made an observation lately on Avalon that I would like to share.

    It's never about what a person says, but how they say it. Its simply not helping you or others making your point.

    I don't see where name-calling and generalizations are helpful in a healthy debate.

    I think more and more members are noticing how others are 'presenting' to make their point.

    Also, it's not always what you say but what you don't say. Perhaps more if you're an administrator. More and more are noticing.

    Much love to all as we learn and grow, together.


    Quote Posted by snoman (here)
    none of you know anything about q really.
    and if you did know, source and validity.. then what?
    all of you who take a position on q.. are fools.
    you know nothing in reality
    posturing and positioning is in fact the root of all this nonsense and discord here on avalon
    you are fools
    i personally love that something has got your knickers in a twist
    you all need a good shake
    Last edited by justntime2learn; 13th July 2019 at 22:09.
    “To develop a complete mind: Study the art of science; study the science of art. Learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else” – Leonardo Da Vinci

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  9. Link to Post #205
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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    I note that many people are framing the discussion as if the issue was supporting one of the US political parties, or denigrating one of the US political parties. Look wider and deeper.

    I'd hazard a guess that there are no agents of the Ruling Elite cabal here. (If there are, you are pretty pitiful at your job.) All of us, all of us - even those who are unconscious of this reality and are infighting and helping the cabal - are on the same side.

    Even edina.

    She's my "cosmic sister", a regular old member of humanity, whether she likes me or not (she doesn't), or whether I like her or not (I don't.) She's not one of the Ruling Elite. Paul's not one of the Ruling Elite. "KiwiElf" isn't one of the Ruling Elite. None of you are one of the Ruling Elite. We're on the same team. All of us.

    We have a common enemy. Even after all these years of trying to figure out if our common enemy should be called "the Ruling Elite", "the Controllers", "the Global Controllers", "the Rulers of the World", "the Illuminati", "The Zionists", "the International Banking Cartel", "the Unelected Government", "the Shadow Government", "the Bilderberg Group", "American Empire", "Global Empire", "Freemasons", "New World Order", "the Deep State", "Corporatocracy/Corporations", "Plutocracy/Plutocrats", "Oligarchy/Oligarchs, "the Military Industrial Complex"... none of us can firmly affix a label to this global control group. Whatever their actual name is, or whether these are all just names for segments of it, this is who us regular people are fighting against. This is our common enemy, the common enemy of mankind (and womankind, and non-humankind too.)

    There have been hundreds of topics here at Avalon regarding the malevolence of this cabal and their control mechanisms, and their plans for us "useless eaters" - well, maybe they will keep 500,000 of the 8 billion useless eaters around, they carved it in granite. I guess someone has to clean the toilets. We Avalon members have always stood together against this cabal.

    Whether the topic is UFO disclosure or hidden energy technology or the surveillance state or genetically modified foods or millimeter wave technology or chemtrails or pollution or extractive exploitation or human exploitation or oil drilling/pipelines/fracking aquifer destruction or aiding and abetting in the genocide of the people of Yemen and Palestine or war profiteering or imperialism or false flag operations...

    ...the pain and suffering and death and ecocide is brought to bear on us by the same unnamed group/cabal. Humanity's enemy. Life's enemy. It's not the exact same people, some of the cabal (dulles and ghw bush and david rockefeller jump to mind) members are dead. It's more of a club with a club-centric agenda than a specific group of people. It changes over time, but their malevolence against us only increases with time.

    I stand against this cabal. Openly. That's my photo, that's my real name, that's my real city and state and country. I'm not a coward hiding behind anonymity. I'm not playing dungeons and dragons, I'm actually here to oppose this cabal. I'm of average intelligence. You don't have to be a genius to see that donald trump is a member of the same cabal, and is executing the duties of the cabal just as obama did, and just as w bush did, and just as bill clinton did, and just as ghw bush did. Same game plan. Same game planners. Same cabal.

    This thread was supposed to be about censorship. Let me invoke "Godwin's Law":
    Avalon is a cyber-meeting spot, not the entire Internet, and was never intended to be a place where the worst misanthropes - members of the cabal, zionists, nazis - are defended. There are not very many people on this forum that want neo-nazis here, carefully, articulately, politely rationalizing nazism. There are men that openly lobby for pedophilia, trying to normalize raping children, trying to get laws changed to legalize pedophilia. There are not many Avalon members that want that here. White supremacy proponents. Sex slavery proponents. Genocide proponents. You want that here at Avalon, under the guise of Avalon being encyclopedic, all-encompassing? Avalon FILTERS out that garbage. "Filters" is more accurate and honest that "censors."

    I have a very bright (real life) friend, a phd anthropologist/archeologist, very articulate. She is a hillary clinton supporter/apologist. She loves hillary, and lauds her greatness. She can take any facts about hillary's actual actions, and she can make it sound like hillary is just misunderstood, a victim of being a woman in a man's world, yadda yadda yadda and ultimately she will defend everything about hillary. Shall I invite her to join Avalon? Would that make Avalon a better place? Would Avalon be more balanced to have a rabid US democrat on-board, spewing that "side" of the cabal's agenda? I have a family member that swallowed the horsesh!t that bernie sanders was spewing, and (in their mind) sanders is a hero and mighty warrior against the bad guys. Shall I invite that family member to become an Avalon member, so that Avalon includes topics about how wonderful that cabal member is?

    As I said before, Avalon members should most certainly be talking about the political ramifications of the actions of the cabal lackeys that have assumed all high office positions of governance. Cabal control of politicians is quite a valid topic. Cabal control mechanisms that they employ to control elections is a valid topic. Cabal infiltration of alternative media, and narrative control, are valid topics. Lauding members of the cabal is not. Ignoring the deeds of the cabal members is not. Pretending that the cabal members are good guys is not.

    Maybe, just maybe, we should find out from Bill what his forum platform is about. Hint: it's about fighting AGAINST the cabal, not picking out our favorite cabal member, ignoring all their actual deeds, worshiping them, and putting ribbons in their hair.
    Thanks for this Dennis,

    There is good grounds for a positive constructive conversation in these comments.

    I want to come back to them and expand on them, it will take some time, as I'm working on another project. And I would like to give it the thoughtful attention that it deserves.

    Let me correct one thing. I can't say I don't like you, because in all honesty, I don't know you.

    Some of your communication style comes off as soft-bullying to me in that it seems to not allow psychological space for people to have an opinion different than yours.

    Whether that is actually true, or not, I don't know.

    I call you "passionately erudite".

    You use a lot of "persuasion" techniques.

    Sounds lovely, but sometimes it breaks down communication.
    Sometimes it feels like a landmine about to explode.
    And I'm speaking about this energetically, as well as from your choice of words.

    I truly appreciate that you have clarified your thoughts here:

    Quote She's not one of the Ruling Elite. Paul's not one of the Ruling Elite. "KiwiElf" isn't one of the Ruling Elite. None of you are one of the Ruling Elite. We're on the same team. All of us.
    Because sometimes your comments were so loaded that I thought that you may have thought we were in cahoots with the Ruling Elite.

    Thank you again, there is much common ground in these comments that I hope we can work with going forward.
    Last edited by edina; 14th July 2019 at 20:18.

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    post deleted to consider other replies that appeared since writing post.
    Last edited by Star Mariner; 13th July 2019 at 21:24.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Dennis, every single aspect of humanity's life is hijacked by the elite. How can they not if they want to control the masses. Education, medicine, America name it.. and of course avalon. Yes there are agents of the elite on avalon. I'm glad there is a lot of good energies on avalon that they cannot subdue it easily. You are one of the knights in shining armor I count on to defend avalon. I am wondering though "what happened"

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  15. Link to Post #208
    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    ...HYPOTHESIS 1

    From my observations since – (way too many to list here and I am deliberately choosing not to specifically name members or topics; except for you Dennis, sorry, nothing personal) – my hypothesis is that there is a tight group of members, with loose affiliates, who have made a “behind closed doors” pact to target the removal of a few topics on Avalon that have been gaining more press coverage than their own threads/posts.

    This group were struggling so they needed a leader who was well liked, prone to being dogmatic, and had sufficient clout to engage in the mods arena. Dennis became the voice and hero the group needed and although Q is predominantly focussed on at the moment there have been remarks made in the same vein for other topics. Dennis has also publicly stated that he tried very hard behind closed doors to convert Paul to accept his beliefs as gospel.

    WHY

    I think the long standing members of this group have grown accustomed to Avalon being “their garden” and any topics they don’t see value in become weeds. So they march over to the weeds and cry for help to pluck them out of existence.

    Problem is the weeds are not viewed by everyone to be weeds. There has been amazing intellectual discourse and debate over the Q topic being removed from public view, so much so that the weed killers are clutching at straws by making fanatical, extremist, insulting remarks as to what Q researchers are; e.g. sociopathic Nazis sympathizers, necrophiliacs.

    I view Avalon as a garden that is growing and expanding; not a garden for "a self appointed privileged membership” to choose what flowers are planted and tended to. Avalon has proved over time that if real weeds do pop up they will eventually wither and die because of the strength of the garden. And as many have pointed out, weeds need to be investigated and studied, along with flowers.

    I think members who aren’t happy that their “flowers” are currently dormant need to remind themselves that all members have the right to grow flowers and that flowers can be, and are, seasonal.

    And the argument to clean out the “little flower growers” so Avalon can become a place solely for “the self appointed privileged intellectuals” is ludicrous. How is preaching only to the choir going to change the world?

    ....
    Ya know, I'm going to take your attack on me as a compliment. I think I may have written something that cracked your cognitive dissonance just a tiny bit. Let me guess, it was the string of facts about how trump and the previous (d and r) presidents all followed the same cabal game plan. It's really hard to ignore, once you look - isn't it?

    You are angry, and you don't know what to do so you attack me. (If you want to attack me, don't just make sh!t up, attack me for attacking the cabal.) You make Paul out to be weak. He isn't.

    "Dennis has also publicly stated that he tried very hard behind closed doors to convert Paul to accept his beliefs as gospel."

    Quote me, don't just make sh!t up. I said I admit that I tried to save Paul from the Q cult. I've never asked Paul, or you, to accept ANYTHING that I say. Not just not as 'gospel', but just like every other source of information you come across, anything I write should also be scrutinized, examined, analyzed. When I say that trump is following EXACTLY the cabal's game plan, just as all the other modern US presidents have, I want you to RESEARCH that. You may need to read John Perkins' book, "Confessions of an Economic Hitman", (or just watch the cartoon), so that you will understand that the first phase of modern war is economic, and be able to recognize that the United States of America, under potus trump as commander-in-chief, is directly conducting war on Iran, Syria, North Korea, and Venezuela, as well as aiding and abetting in the genocide in Palestine by the Zionist Israeli government, and aiding and abetting in the genocide in Yemen by the Saudi Arabian monarchy. The destruction of Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan are about complete, and potus trump is also presiding over the cabal's resource extraction (theft) in those destroyed countries. Potus trump is also sitting on the knowledge of who planned, executed, and covered-up 9/11 - and his response is to become yet another member of the cover-up team.

    Trump is low hanging fruit. No fancy decoder ring or even AI needed to see that he is a member of the financial elite that has now also become a member of the ruling elite, the cabal. The data is all there for you to ascertain that trump, and his main propagandist Q, are cabal assets. In addition to the cheerleading of US republicans, the whitewashing of evil warmongers, is Q also going after cabal democrat pedophiles? Well, good, but how about the cabal republican pedophiles? I'm going after the cabal. So, if you want to crucify me, then crucify me for what I am actually advocating: fighting the entire cabal.

    Glad to see that I'm getting through to you.


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  17. Link to Post #209
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    Smile Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    I note that many people are framing the discussion as if the issue was supporting one of the US political parties, or denigrating one of the US political parties. Look wider and deeper.

    I'd hazard a guess that there are no agents of the Ruling Elite cabal here. (If there are, you are pretty pitiful at your job.) All of us, all of us - even those who are unconscious of this reality and are infighting and helping the cabal - are on the same side.

    Even edina.

    She's my "cosmic sister", a regular old member of humanity, whether she likes me or not (she doesn't), or whether I like her or not (I don't.) She's not one of the Ruling Elite. Paul's not one of the Ruling Elite. "KiwiElf" isn't one of the Ruling Elite. None of you are one of the Ruling Elite. We're on the same team. All of us.

    We have a common enemy. Even after all these years of trying to figure out if our common enemy should be called "the Ruling Elite", "the Controllers", "the Global Controllers", "the Rulers of the World", "the Illuminati", "The Zionists", "the International Banking Cartel", "the Unelected Government", "the Shadow Government", "the Bilderberg Group", "American Empire", "Global Empire", "Freemasons", "New World Order", "the Deep State", "Corporatocracy/Corporations", "Plutocracy/Plutocrats", "Oligarchy/Oligarchs, "the Military Industrial Complex"... none of us can firmly affix a label to this global control group. Whatever their actual name is, or whether these are all just names for segments of it, this is who us regular people are fighting against. This is our common enemy, the common enemy of mankind (and womankind, and non-humankind too.)

    There have been hundreds of topics here at Avalon regarding the malevolence of this cabal and their control mechanisms, and their plans for us "useless eaters" - well, maybe they will keep 500,000 of the 8 billion useless eaters around, they carved it in granite. I guess someone has to clean the toilets. We Avalon members have always stood together against this cabal.

    Whether the topic is UFO disclosure or hidden energy technology or the surveillance state or genetically modified foods or millimeter wave technology or chemtrails or pollution or extractive exploitation or human exploitation or oil drilling/pipelines/fracking aquifer destruction or aiding and abetting in the genocide of the people of Yemen and Palestine or war profiteering or imperialism or false flag operations...

    ...the pain and suffering and death and ecocide is brought to bear on us by the same unnamed group/cabal. Humanity's enemy. Life's enemy. It's not the exact same people, some of the cabal (dulles and ghw bush and david rockefeller jump to mind) members are dead. It's more of a club with a club-centric agenda than a specific group of people. It changes over time, but their malevolence against us only increases with time.

    I stand against this cabal. Openly. That's my photo, that's my real name, that's my real city and state and country. I'm not a coward hiding behind anonymity. I'm not playing dungeons and dragons, I'm actually here to oppose this cabal. I'm of average intelligence. You don't have to be a genius to see that donald trump is a member of the same cabal, and is executing the duties of the cabal just as obama did, and just as w bush did, and just as bill clinton did, and just as ghw bush did. Same game plan. Same game planners. Same cabal.

    This thread was supposed to be about censorship. Let me invoke "Godwin's Law":
    Avalon is a cyber-meeting spot, not the entire Internet, and was never intended to be a place where the worst misanthropes - members of the cabal, zionists, nazis - are defended. There are not very many people on this forum that want neo-nazis here, carefully, articulately, politely rationalizing nazism. There are men that openly lobby for pedophilia, trying to normalize raping children, trying to get laws changed to legalize pedophilia. There are not many Avalon members that want that here. White supremacy proponents. Sex slavery proponents. Genocide proponents. You want that here at Avalon, under the guise of Avalon being encyclopedic, all-encompassing? Avalon FILTERS out that garbage. "Filters" is more accurate and honest that "censors."

    I have a very bright (real life) friend, a phd anthropologist/archeologist, very articulate. She is a hillary clinton supporter/apologist. She loves hillary, and lauds her greatness. She can take any facts about hillary's actual actions, and she can make it sound like hillary is just misunderstood, a victim of being a woman in a man's world, yadda yadda yadda and ultimately she will defend everything about hillary. Shall I invite her to join Avalon? Would that make Avalon a better place? Would Avalon be more balanced to have a rabid US democrat on-board, spewing that "side" of the cabal's agenda? I have a family member that swallowed the horsesh!t that bernie sanders was spewing, and (in their mind) sanders is a hero and mighty warrior against the bad guys. Shall I invite that family member to become an Avalon member, so that Avalon includes topics about how wonderful that cabal member is?

    As I said before, Avalon members should most certainly be talking about the political ramifications of the actions of the cabal lackeys that have assumed all high office positions of governance. Cabal control of politicians is quite a valid topic. Cabal control mechanisms that they employ to control elections is a valid topic. Cabal infiltration of alternative media, and narrative control, are valid topics. Lauding members of the cabal is not. Ignoring the deeds of the cabal members is not. Pretending that the cabal members are good guys is not.

    Maybe, just maybe, we should find out from Bill what his forum platform is about. Hint: it's about fighting AGAINST the cabal, not picking out our favorite cabal member, ignoring all their actual deeds, worshiping them, and putting ribbons in their hair.
    I remember a guy that came here with his "alien" videos. He said aliens were visiting his house and doing all sorts of things. He was also hoping to build up his youtube platform. He had a bunch of blurry moving videos and one that even showed a hand moving things. No one was rude to the guy but we made observations and asked him valid questions. I can't remember how long he lasted, maybe a week but he ended up calling members names and he left. That is what Avalon does best. There are very bright members here with a great knowledge base, they can ask the right questions, observe with an eagles eye and practice discernment. I would love to have a Hillary defender come on this forum. I would just love it. If she did and we could present facts about Hillary it might be a eye opener for someone out their that has yet to learn some discernment skills. Who knows maybe she could convince us that old Hillary is a saint .

    Sometimes advancement of human consciousness doesn't happen the way we think it will. When I step back and look at the much, much bigger picture I see Trump and Q as possible catalysts of great potential. Great potential, whether they intend to be that or not.

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  19. Link to Post #210
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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    edit : actually better yet is being able to see a different perspective.
    Last edited by mojo; 13th July 2019 at 22:11.

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  21. Link to Post #211
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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Maybe, just maybe, we should find out from Bill what his forum platform is about. Hint: it's about fighting AGAINST the cabal, not picking out our favorite cabal member, ignoring all their actual deeds, worshiping them, and putting ribbons in their hair.
    I applaud that, I don't want to put any ribbons in Donald Trump's hair either thanks, such as it is! I don't want to see any of that stuff any more than you do. Of ribbon tying or drum banging that is. For Trump/Hillary, May/Corbyn, whoever your favourite horse is. I'd rather see that stuff left at the door.

    But here's the thing. Not everyone is ready to draw the ironclad conclusions that you have drawn for yourself: that Trump is just another pawn of the cabal. Are you saying it's not all right for the rest of us to have a different opinion than that, or to express that opinion?

    Sorry if I'm not understanding your post as much as maybe I should - it's getting very late here and I need to turn in. Though there's a lot in it that I fully support and admire. You're a true warrior Dennis and I greatly respect you for that! But you seem to be saying in a roundabout sort of way, (and forgive me if I'm wrong) that your position, and therefore the quasi-official position of Avalon, is: that Trump is to be considered [without argument] just another deep state stooge, an enemy of humanity.

    I'm not saying you're wrong. But I'm not ready to say you're right, either. Isn't that my right? Am I not allowed to differ, and express those views (without beating a drum of course) but by association, in the Q thread? I would also ask whether I am entitled to express those opinions without being slandered by my fellow members (and mods) and without being censored?

    And for the record, if you want to invite a Bernie Sanders supporter or even a Hillary supporter to the forum, as long they didn't bang any drums either, I've got no problem with that at all. Why would I? Avalon is not a political forum. Everyone's entitled to their opinions. And to express them. Aren't they?

    And @Bill, I'm really hoping this post will not be forgotten:

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Again, 'campfire stories' (unprovable claims) should maybe be heard, remembered, noted, and not erased from the public record. Unless it's an almost certainly established psy-op, they shouldn't be censored or silenced. There's value in considering them as potentially real.

    But more is needed if important decisions are to be made. Otherwise, it's a mixture of entertainment, and preaching from a pulpit.

    And in both those instances, the people are kept captive as an audience, may be inspired and fed with hope, but ultimately they may be disempowered, as they are mere observers. They're doing nothing at all, and it's really just more TV. (And the Secret Space program so-called 'whistleblowers' do this, too.)
    Quote not erased from the public record
    Quote they shouldn't be censored or silenced...
    Because it wasn't that long ago when it was Alex Jones who was in the firing line. Many here leapt to his defence when social media banned him shamed him and smashed him all to pieces. Even when they didn't agree with him, or anything he stood for! But they fiercely defended his right to speak, his right to a platform, and his right to dignity! And quite right.

    Does that standard not extend to everybody, even if they disagree with Dennis?
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    When I joined this forum back in 2010 there was a large number of spiritually minded members. The channelled information section was very active.

    I personally had learned heaps about reality through channelled material. The Seth speaks books helped me to make sense of so much.

    However, I also understood there was a real range in terms of what came through...Some channels offered absolutely beautiful and pure transmissions, others offered information distorted by their own filter, and still others offered material that was part of a psyop designed to appear high frequency, yet if examined carefully was full of subtle negative programming.

    Eventually Bill and the mods decided that due to the fact that the source of this information was unknown, and the content could potentially be dangerous it was decided that it would be moved to the members only section.

    Sound familiar?

    Many of the spiritually focused members weren't happy with this move. I personally didn't think it was necessary as discernment is an extremely important skill to develop. But i also understood the fact that this is this is Bill's forum and he has the right to set the tone and boundaries that feel right to him. There are many other forums that share channeled information. If i want to read or discuss related topics I am totally free to go elsewhere to meet those needs.
    Last edited by enfoldedblue; 14th July 2019 at 01:48.

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by snoman (here)
    ...
    you all need a good shake
    Quote Posted by snoman (here)
    ...

    Do you recall the nascence of the alternative media? You know, when the internet allowed us to explore the murky dealings of the amoral power-brokers? Places like Avalon began pretty much in that shared distrust of the PTB.. remember the days when they were referred to as the PTB?

    ... Why try to reorganize a forum that is intrinsically not political into a pro and anti pantomime?
    Although arguably harsh, this was a stunning post imho. Under the frustration of the first quoted post I see a great message about the value of uncertainty. Careful with that razor sharp perception though, it doesn't always mix well with the endless frustration available. I thought it was expressed better in the post I quoted second

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by Star Mariner (here)
    Chris, imagine if certain people on the forum thought spirituality, reincarnation, the soul, all that was false. Garbage. And they even called you names for believing in it. Then, arbitrarily, they remove all those threads, all your posts and contributions on the subject, out of view. Imagine they shadowbanned it. And your opinion on the matter was irrelevant. Imagine that.

    It's the principle (or lack of) we're opposed to here.
    Hi Star Mariner,

    I actually had a similar thought experiment but applied it in the opposite way.

    Imagine if lots of people on Avalon began to think that spirituality, the soul, alternative science, and anything other than mainstream physicalism are out-and-out false. And imagine the most active and therefore prominent threads on the forum became folks talking about how neuroscience has once again proved we are really mostly just water and proteins, and that the truth is best found in the pages of Nature Reviews Neuroscience. And suppose people start thinking that Avalon is a forum about physicalism, reductive views of humans, and acceptance of mainstream truths.

    Would it be moral for the moderation team be to intervene to try and steer the forum elsewhere, perhaps putting those threads behind a membership wall or giving them their own subform? My gut tells me it would be entirely moral: they want to cultivate a particular community for a particular goal (discussion of 'where science and spirituality meet'); laissez faire moderation come-what-may doesn't always fit with that; and I don't think there would be anything wrong in principle with decisions like moving threads to members only in my hypothetical situation.

    I'm fairly convinced by this that the action is ok in principle, but I'm not sure how convincing this will be to others.

    I suspect that people will either not be convinced that hiding topics behind a membership wall in my hypothetical would be ok (denying that the decision can be ok in principle), or think that mainstream physicalism is too far from what's reasonable or relevant to Avalon to make for a good comparison to Q (so the principle applying in the hypothetical is irrelevant).

    Hopefully it's an interesting hypothetical anyway!



    p.s. For what it's worth I'm very much into mainstream science and do have a very reductive view of what humans are made of, so I'm not comparing belief in Q to something which I take to be obviously ridiculous or false.
    Last edited by Post-Structuralist Comet; 13th July 2019 at 23:03.

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by Star Mariner (here)


    But here's the thing. Not everyone is ready to draw the ironclad conclusions that you have drawn for yourself: that Trump is just another pawn of the cabal. Are you saying it's not all right for the rest of us to have a different opinion than that, or to express that opinion?
    It is not that it is not alright to state an opinion but an opinion without evidence is basically worthless.

    And I am sorry but you need to prove that he is a good guy.

    THere are literally quotes about his buddy epstein from his mouth. Literally the Labor secretary just had to resign because he got a sweetheart deal FOR A PEDOPHILE.

    You know how pizza gate had the Q people thinking podesta eats children(and I am not saying that this is incorrect)? Well literally we have one rung lower than that being made officially public and Trump is LITERALLY ONE DEGREE separation from that very CHILD PREDATOR. Better yet, there are pictures of them together and like I said a quote about him but also court cases from the 90s where allegations that fit in line with what we KNOW Epstein does that put trump doing child predator things.

    Beyond that, He gave Saudi Nuclear secrets, he moved the Embassy to Jerusalem, is clearly massively in favor of Zionism( did you see the settlement or whatever that Netanyahooo had Trumps name put on it? Are you gonna tell me Netanyahoo is also a good dude?), he is keeping guantanamo bay open, he is letting ICE murder immigrants just seeking a better life . . .


    I know you will probably just say, oh well the Epstein is 13d level chess to expose the cabal or whatever but I have enough evidence to prove to myself that Trump is at least a horrible human being, which we know from his business practices and stiffing contractors, but at worst is exactly what the Q people is saying Hillary is. I dont like hillary. I think of her just like i do trump because I dont wear partisan goggles.

    I wear evidence goggles. What evidence do you have that can prove to me Trump is good?


    EDIT.

    This is why the Q thread was hidden IMHO and why it lead Dennis and Paul to clash. Some of us would post things with evidence of clearly pushing the Cabal agenda, LIKE KEEPING GUANTAMO BAY OPEN( if you cant see the connection to Assange being in prison and GITMO then I cant help you), and then people would respond with trust the plan.

    That is blind faith.

    I dont think Avalon tends to traffic in blind faith.

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote What evidence do you have that can prove to me Trump is good?
    The MSM, the farleft, most Dems, the Cabal, Hollywood, the elite. the globalist and even the Pope oppose him... there you go....

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by mojo (here)
    Quote What evidence do you have that can prove to me Trump is good?
    The MSM, the farleft, most Dems, the Cabal, Hollywood, the elite. the globalist and even the Pope oppose him... there you go....
    How does one verify your claims?


    For example. THE MSM and most dems and the cabal and the elite all hate Ocassio Cortez. By your logic, You also like her?


    By that is me getting sucked down to your game of not actually giving references or pointing to things which are within the purview of the president(like you know when Trump let the CIA hide those JFK files, which btw are still hidden in contradiction to the law).

    I like to deal with evidence, which you have not furnished.

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    I edited this post, but will repeat this

    I dislike name calling...some harsh slings have been made in some post, that can be very hurtful, cult, Nazi, etc....how sad.
    Last edited by Sadieblue; 14th July 2019 at 02:17. Reason: To remove post

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    Quote Posted by mojo (here)
    Quote What evidence do you have that can prove to me Trump is good?
    The MSM, the farleft, most Dems, the Cabal, Hollywood, the elite. the globalist and even the Pope oppose him... there you go....
    How does one verify your claims?


    For example. THE MSM and most dems and the cabal and the elite all hate Ocassio Cortez. By your logic, You also like her?


    By that is me getting sucked down to your game of not actually giving references or pointing to things which are within the purview of the president(like you know when Trump let the CIA hide those JFK files, which btw are still hidden in contradiction to the law).

    I like to deal with evidence, which you have not furnished.
    Praxis, I was wondering the same thing. How do you verify your claims?

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by peterpam (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    Quote Posted by mojo (here)
    Quote What evidence do you have that can prove to me Trump is good?
    The MSM, the farleft, most Dems, the Cabal, Hollywood, the elite. the globalist and even the Pope oppose him... there you go....
    How does one verify your claims?


    For example. THE MSM and most dems and the cabal and the elite all hate Ocassio Cortez. By your logic, You also like her?


    By that is me getting sucked down to your game of not actually giving references or pointing to things which are within the purview of the president(like you know when Trump let the CIA hide those JFK files, which btw are still hidden in contradiction to the law).

    I like to deal with evidence, which you have not furnished.
    Praxis, I was wondering the same thing. How do you verify your claims?
    Lets start with the JFK files one.

    Are you claiming that I am making a false claim?

    I assure you I am not.

    Go here. https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/release

    You will note that April 26th was the last one we got.




    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________

    https://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/nr18-45

    "WASHINGTON —

    In accordance with President Trump’s direction on October 26, 2017, the National Archives today posted 19,045 documents subject to the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992 (JFK Act). Released documents are available for download. The versions released today were processed by agencies in accordance with the President’s direction that agency heads be extremely circumspect in recommending any further postponement.

    The John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection, established by the National Archives in November 1992, consists of approximately five million pages. The vast majority of the collection has been publicly available without any restrictions since the late 1990s. As permitted by the JFK Act, agencies appealed to the President to continue postponement of certain information beyond October 26, 2017. The President provided agencies with a temporary certification until April 26, 2018 to allow for a re-review of all documents withheld in full or in part under section 5 of the JFK Act and directed agencies to “identify as much as possible that may be publicly disclosed” and to be “extremely circumspect in recommending any further postponement.”

    Based on reviews conducted by agencies in accordance with the President’s direction, the National Archives released 3,539 documents on Dec. 15, 10,744 documents on Nov. 17, 13,213 documents on Nov. 9, and 676 documents on Nov. 3 of last year. The 19,045 documents released today represent the final release of documents in accordance with the President’s direction on October 26, 2017.

    All documents subject to section 5 of the JFK Act have been released in full or in part. No documents subject to section 5 of the JFK Act remain withheld in full. The President has determined that all information that remains withheld under section 5 must be reviewed again before October 26, 2021 to determine whether continued withholding from disclosure is necessary.

    "
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________


    Ok So now we need to look at the Presidential directive

    It is reported on here.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8324111.html

    "While the remaining documents are set to be revealed by October of 2021, national security agencies could still continue to postpone their release."

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________

    And since you are a document nerd and want the source

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Tempo...ohn_F._Kennedy

    "Administration of Donald J. Trump , 2017

    October 26, 2017

    By the President of the United States of America

    A Memorandum

    Subject: Temporary Certification for Certain Records Related to the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy

    Memorandum for the Archivist of the United States and the Heads of Executive Departments and Agencies

    The American public expects -- and deserves -- its Government to provide as much access as possible to the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records (records) so that the people may finally be fully informed about all aspects of this pivotal event. Therefore, I am ordering today that the veil finally be lifted. At the same time, executive departments and agencies (agencies) have proposed to me that certain information should continue to be redacted because of national security, law enforcement, and foreign affairs concerns. I have no choice --today -- but to accept those redactions rather than allow potentially irreversible harm to our Nation's security. To further address these concerns, I am also ordering agencies to re-review each and every one of those redactions over the next 180 days. At the end of that period, I will order the public disclosure of any information that the agencies cannot demonstrate meets the statutory standard for continued postponement of disclosure under section 5(g)(2)(D) of the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992 (44 U.S.C. 2107 note) (the "Act").

    Accordingly, by the authority vested in me as President and Commander in Chief by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I hereby certify that all information within records that agencies have proposed for continued postponement under section 5(g)(2)(D) of the Act must be temporarily withheld from full public disclosure until no later than April 26, 2018, to allow sufficient time to determine whether such information warrants continued postponement under the Act. This temporary withholding from full public disclosure is necessary to protect against harm to the military defense, intelligence operations, law enforcement, or the conduct of foreign relations that is of such gravity that it outweighs the public interest in immediate disclosure.

    I hereby direct all agencies that have proposed postponement of full disclosure to review the information subject to this certification and identify as much as possible that may be publicly disclosed without harm to the military defense, intelligence operations, law enforcement, or conduct of foreign relations.

    Any agency that seeks to request further postponement beyond this temporary certification shall adhere to the findings of the Act, which state, among other things, that "only in the rarest cases is there any legitimate need for continued protection of such records." The need for continued protection can only have grown weaker with the passage of time since the Congress made this finding. Accordingly, each agency head should be extremely circumspect in recommending any further postponement of full disclosure of records. Any agency that seeks further postponement shall, no later than March 12, 2018, report to the Archivist of the United States (Archivist) on the specific information within particular records that meets the standard for continued postponement under section 5(g)(2)(D) of the Act. Thereafter, the Archivist shall recommend to me, no later than March 26, 2018, whether the specific information within particular records identified by agencies warrants continued withholding from public disclosure after April 26, 2018.

    The Archivist is hereby authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register. "


    __________________________________________________ _________________

    I know you want the straight juice, so here it is from a .gov

    https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...john-f-kennedy


    Which you will note that the WIKISource text is actually accurate. But Hey I didnt want you to think I was trying to get you to trust my plan

    __________________________________________________ _________________

    Which all put together means, I can back up my claim that Donald Trump Helped the Cabal Directly by helping them hide evidence of one of the greatest crimes of our time.
    Last edited by Praxis; 14th July 2019 at 02:23.

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