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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Can we not trust Bill and the moderators, who took quite sometime, before deciding to move the Q thread to members only?
    Is there a forum elsewhere that is a Q forum?
    If not members here could start one without leaving Avalon.
    I dont know just a passing thought

    Just some times Avalon looked like it was a Q forum and that may attract or detract new members.
    Chris
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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    What if the members indulging the hoax grow in numbers, and, while they're sorting out the Q thing, begin taking over the energy of the entire forum....causing many long standing members to leave?

    What then?

    I appreciate your sentiment but it's not quite as cut and dry as it may seem
    Thanks Mike for another reminder that backstage there is much more going on than what we are discussing on this and other threads.

    So I’m going to make a hypothesis. DISCLAIMER: “a proposition made as a basis for reasoning, without any assumption of its truth”.

    Several months ago I received a PM asking me to join forces to help publicly shut down a researcher (R) and his thread. (Not Q thread) In attempts to convince me that (R) had no place on Avalon I was told that moderators and other members felt the same way.

    A tactic that: (a) implied this person was part of a privileged inner circle, and (b) was attempting to apply group pressure to sway me behind closed doors.

    I refused to engage in this plan and made it clear I thought it was unethical to speak on behalf of others this way, especially when I had no way of verifying if it was true.

    It deeply concerned me that members who are acutely aware of the lack of transparency in covert operations that control societies with secret task forces were actually engaging in the same type of behaviour that they opposed.

    HYPOTHESIS 1

    From my observations since – (way too many to list here and I am deliberately choosing not to specifically name members or topics; except for you Dennis, sorry, nothing personal) – my hypothesis is that there is a tight group of members, with loose affiliates, who have made a “behind closed doors” pact to target the removal of a few topics on Avalon that have been gaining more press coverage than their own threads/posts.

    This group were struggling so they needed a leader who was well liked, prone to being dogmatic, and had sufficient clout to engage in the mods arena. Dennis became the voice and hero the group needed and although Q is predominantly focussed on at the moment there have been remarks made in the same vein for other topics. Dennis has also publicly stated that he tried very hard behind closed doors to convert Paul to accept his beliefs as gospel.

    WHY

    I think the long standing members of this group have grown accustomed to Avalon being “their garden” and any topics they don’t see value in become weeds. So they march over to the weeds and cry for help to pluck them out of existence.

    Problem is the weeds are not viewed by everyone to be weeds. There has been amazing intellectual discourse and debate over the Q topic being removed from public view, so much so that the weed killers are clutching at straws by making fanatical, extremist, insulting remarks as to what Q researchers are; e.g. sociopathic Nazis sympathizers, necrophiliacs.

    I view Avalon as a garden that is growing and expanding; not a garden for "a self appointed privileged membership” to choose what flowers are planted and tended to. Avalon has proved over time that if real weeds do pop up they will eventually wither and die because of the strength of the garden. And as many have pointed out, weeds need to be investigated and studied, along with flowers.

    I think members who aren’t happy that their “flowers” are currently dormant need to remind themselves that all members have the right to grow flowers and that flowers can be, and are, seasonal.

    And the argument to clean out the “little flower growers” so Avalon can become a place solely for “the self appointed privileged intellectuals” is ludicrous. How is preaching only to the choir going to change the world?

    HYPOTHESIS 2

    Emotional Terrorism? Hope this isn’t happening, but from pieces of the puzzle I can’t rule it out.

    Did long standing members threaten to leave if Q thread wasn’t removed from public viewing, and are these long standing members threatening to leave if the Q thread is put back into public view, via PM’s to moderators and Bill Ryan. And how is this a problem when there are also members publicly saying they are considering leaving re the “censorship” because it goes against their value system?

    Doing it behind closed doors is cowardly and is emotional blackmail because the language is most likely appealing and exploiting along the lines of “friendship and caring” and “Avalon owes me” and “Avalon will crumble without me and those like me”, etc which clouds the intellectual determinations. It also doesn’t allow the intelligence within this community to engage openly to support those struggling with retirement decisions.

    So I say: Call the bluff! Longstanding members may leave. Some may never return. But history reveals that many will return because they are invested in this garden. At any rate Avalon will survive; and who knows maybe some of the lurkers will come out and plant a few seeds because they will feel safe from the intimidation that oozes from some long standing members who blatantly and literally label themselves as being more intelligent, sophisticated, aware, awake, blah blah, when they judge and whine over what others contribute. These judgments are extreme hubris demanding privileges and fracturing equality in the process.

    I’ve been browsing Avalon daily for years. Many times I see a new thread pop up and think Oh God, not another one. No biggie. I just glide on down and select what I have the time to be interested in. I could never justify going into those threads and demanding they be removed from public view, or slinging off about them in other threads, because I’m done with that topic so everyone else should be.

    IS IT TIME TO FINISH THIS

    We’re never going to know the full story. No matter how many well informed, intelligent, reasonable, civil discourses we have, (which are a testament to the Avalon membership), there’s always going to be the missing pieces of this Q puzzle that prevent clarity over what’s happening.

    We cherish the right to vote. So let’s actually vote. (No opinion poll)

    YES or NO. SHOULD THE Q THREADS BE PLACED BACK INTO PUBLIC VIEW.

    Perhaps allow 2 weeks for voters to contribute. And whatever the result, let’s all concede to live with it.

    ! ! ! ! !
    ! ! ! ! !
    ! ! ! ! !



    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    YES or NO. SHOULD THE Q THREADS BE PLACED BACK INTO PUBLIC VIEW.

    Perhaps allow 2 weeks for voters to contribute. And whatever the result, let’s all concede to live with it.

    !

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    United States Avalon Member Jad's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    I think a poll would be a good idea to see how the rest of the forum feels about this now that we know where the moderators stand. It doesn't mean that we have to implement the results, but it would give Bill and the Mod team a chance to see how the forum feels about this which could help them run the forum better.

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  7. Link to Post #164
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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    Bill, I'm writing this to you.

    Censorship or Boundary Issue?

    I think the word censorship is being unfairly used as a weapon when the issue is boundaries and maturity standards.

    What irks me the most is that the people whining the loudest about censorship are the people who censored all dissenters from their thread for over a year.

    Bill, you said: "we don't want to censor anyone at all. We applaud and support open discussion, if it's conducted with respect, care and understanding."

    "Not censoring anyone at all' can't be practical. Avalon has always had boundaries which is a form of censorship - kicking out people out who 'aren't a good fit' either for personality type or topic. Additionally Avalon has always had some % of threads for members only and no one ever said a word about it - until a pack of obsessed fixed minds started acting entitled and making demands.

    Would you have let a Jim Jones-like evangelical extremist cult get more and more closed off and let them angrily tell you to leave their party alone or you're a big evil censor?? NO. Why not? Because you know they're an isolated unhealthy bunch of deluded people you don't want to help feed. So why feed ANY UNHEALTHY SUBJECT let alone any unhealthy minds obviously not in the least here at Avalon to listen/learn? Q may be a valid discussion topic but not as a feeding trough for unhealthy one-sided cult forming.

    What you really have now is a pack of evangelical Q extremists who want to be left alone and are trying to push you around. They've complained loudly every time a dissenter crossed their boundary, then they lost their gatekeeper and are now frantically trying to guilt-trip you with the loaded word 'censorship' to get you to take orders for continued special treatment. I don't see any difference between this entitled behavior than I got from my righteous, disrespectful, demanding, immature teenager who was hopelessly resistant to logic and reasoning until he grew up and the light went on.

    You are acutely aware that this small, tightknit faction is completely ignoring everything that has firmly convinced you otherwise and they're driving away many of the people you've respected for years who know it too.

    So I don't see why you should feel guilty about tightening Avalon's member qualification boundaries to a higher standard of behavior and maturity and removing anyone who's hopelessly indoctrinated/cognitive dissonant regardless of the subject. Do you really want Avalon to be a place to coddle, babysit and wait and wait and wait for hopelessly deluded minds to grow up while they keep repeating their entitled behavior? It's like an oil leak started and kept spreading, and oil and water will never mix in a forum. Hopelessly.

    OIL: Cognitive Dissonant Minds/Only attracted to sources and other people that further support their fixed decision about what ONLY can be true -
    ALWAYS COCKSURE, INDIGNANT, VERY LIMITED SCOPE OF AWARENESS OF A SUBJECT, EASILY EGO THREATENED WHEN CHALLENGED, ANGRILY DISMISS INCONVENIENT FACTS, HOPELESSLY STUCK IN THEIR FIXED OPINION.

    WATER: Flexible open minds /Always on the lookout for where they might improve and eliminate wrong thinking -
    LISTENERS/LEARNERS, WILLING TO CHANGE, NATURALLY RESPECTFULLY DISCUSS AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND OTHER, EGO IS FAR MORE INTERESTED IN TRUTH AND ACCURACY THAN BEING PERSONALLY RIGHT - IN AN EFFORT TO GET SMARTER INSTEAD OF CLING TO ANY MISTAKEN THINKING.

    To me these are the questions on the Avalon table right now regarding about 10-20 or so of your 10,000 members:

    1. You continued: "... if it's conducted with respect, care and understanding." OK, then what do you owe any member who has proven themselves to be hopelessly unwilling to try to understand other - either within the Q subject or anyone making lots of interruptive, clueless comments with a superiority attitude in threads totally over their head?

    2. What would you really lose by kicking out the hopelessly closed minded? Do you really care if only the hopelessly deluded/indoctrinated call you a censor?

    It's like you're afraid to lose any member - like there aren't multitudes of much more mature minds looking for a high standard place to meet. If the house was cleaned and standards raised those others would start being attracted here again. AGAIN is the operative word.

    As it stands, long time respected members are running off or starting less and less threads for being disheartened by the abundance of shallow, arrogant mindsets that keep disrupting threads with dead wrong assumptions, projections and fixed thinking narrow opinions - like is massively happening by many of the group in question on just this thread.

    I think any of these types throwing a tantrum right now with their arms crossed - especially those flatly refusing to understand what is so convincing to so many others regarding Q - gives you every right to say "you don't belong here until you figure out why because you're unable to grasp any explanation I can give you right now."

    Imagine a year from now when Avalon is back to high level, challenging posts, great minds who listen, comprehend and consider before posting become the norm again and boundaries are known... or you know you'll get kicked out. I think you'd be glad you did and the deluded will still be the poor victims cursing you. You already know destiny is just dragging out way too long already for exposing who another round of history's manipulated have been.

    Bill, I urge you to take a bold stand for what your knowledge and experience has taught you, plug the oil leak and raise the bar here by tightening the boundaries of who/what fits and doesn't fit at Avalon.

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    Further, considering the very suspicious worldwide escalation of flagrant weather warfare genocide and massive infrastructure destruction going on RIGHT NOW, I say it's time to let the hopelessly cognitive dissonant fend for themselves, they're not listening, possibly truly unable for now. They can return when the light comes on and by next year we might really appreciate having begun to re-attract back the truth community's most mature, educated and non-deluded minds in one place for soon to be very needed cohesive unity and leadership.
    You know that head-banging moment when you start off thinking 'Oh the irony!'.
    It morphs in to a desire to calm the apparent brain-fever, a desire to point out the many logical inconsistencies.
    Closely followed by the realization that to highlight these deficiencies will have inevitable, or should I say 'oily' consequences.

    But I have seen too much of the world to turn the other cheek when the jack-boots start to march in lock-step.
    Maybe you could explain what has brought you to these conclusions? What has caused you to react in this way to other people who 'want to be left alone'? Do you see them as your teenage child who needs to be protected? From information? What has caused such fear in you that information is evil?

    Meh, I'm still a bit on the fence (as are many who have an interest in the Q material), but I do find the timing of all this outrage and suppression/censorship quite interesting. It is not just this channel feeling push-back, could it be that certain people of a criminal/paedophillic bent are starting to feel the approach of justice?
    Just where does all this incoherent rage come from?
    And then the day came, when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.

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    UK Avalon Member YoYoYo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by Aragorn (here)
    ...
    Here's a hint for the petty-minded: it's a "thanks" button, not a "like" button.
    I sort of disagree



    It's slightly less expressive than a car horn, and it's rubbish at it's function... But it can have the effect of a cheer or a boo (snub) and as a communication protocol, it's simplicity goes in it's favour

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    just wanted to mention...

    I've read posts on this thread mentioning being/not being *awake and aware* and being/not being *love and light*.

    You do realize that both of those are just the beginning, don't you? that there is so much more to come after reaching that point?

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    I'm sure many here will not agree with me, but it's quite obvious that the Q-material (hoax or not) has been detrimental to the spirit of this forum.

    For the powers that be something like this is very convenient. As long as there is political division, humanity will never ever know peace and unity. That's why I believe that politics won't ever solve the problems of humanity, it has to be deeper than that. The only solution is a spiritual integration, but I wonder how long it will take for people to truly realize that. As people are still under the spell as many have been ever since Trump got into power (anyone remember Obama's Hope and Change btw?), this will just be another observation that many will discard.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    I want to take a moment to say thank you to both Richard Dolan and Bill Ryan for the work they have put in to the field--both inspire confidence when i engage with others on these matters.

    No it's not censorship what Rich did, not really--it's something else, something like trying to build some momentum the best he knows how.

    Same thing here, imo. I deal with similar issues sometimes in my line of work. Some decisions just seem to polarize half of the stakeholders, no matter what you choose to do.

    Best way I've found is to just make a choice and stick with it...

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    The only solution is a spiritual integration, but I wonder how long it will take for people to truly realize that.
    Spiritual integration with what?

    There comes a point where the spiritual, intellectual, and physical need to balance. After all, we are mind, body and spirit.

    When all three are in balance, "miracles" can happen.

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    Moderator Pam's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Just like Ulli so eloquently stated, for many it is not about the Q drops- it's about making the masses aware that something is very wrong in our social structures. Even for those that hang on every word of Q, if it turns out to be a lie, it still awakens them to what is happening.. It has the ability to awaken far more to reality than any forum, any book, any one person like it or not. Maybe it takes something like Q to do that in this day and age. Once you become aware you can't turn back no matter how you got there. Hell, David Wilcock got me interested in looking at things from a different perspective but that doesn't mean I'm still following him in wide eyed wonder as he and Corey scam the world for every dime they can get, we evolve if we are willing.

    My major concern is the censorship and shadow banning that is happening to anyone that doesn't follow the party line, the pseudo liberal movement. Don't any of you find it terrifying conservative leaning and alternative health educators are essentially having their speech controlled by the likes of google, face book and others? That they only want you to have the information and viewpoint that they are promoting? That is why I am so sensitive to the issue. If you don't see this as threat because it doesn't effect you, think again. Don't be so naive as to think this isn't going to intensify. This is just the beginning. These corporations are the modern village square, and they hold very, very strong influence.

    For those of you that like to throw the word "Nazi" around. I am going to do the same. I see this censorship and masked development of "hate" groups that have nothing to do with hate as very similar to the very beginnings of Nazi oppression. Of course it's been updated for modern times.

    I am very observant of anything that smacks of hiding information in this particular age we are in. Giving into a few whining, name calling, highly emotional, irrational members seems a step in the wrong direction.


    nd
    Last edited by Hervé; 13th July 2019 at 14:37. Reason: removed blank space

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by janus (here)
    Spiritual integration with what?

    There comes a point where the spiritual, intellectual, and physical need to balance. After all, we are mind, body and spirit.

    When all three are in balance, "miracles" can happen.
    Yes. Emotional, mental, physical and spiritual parts need to be integrated within the individual and thus in society too. That way there can be healing and harmony, but it requires a lot of self-observation.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    Quote Posted by janus (here)
    Spiritual integration with what?

    There comes a point where the spiritual, intellectual, and physical need to balance. After all, we are mind, body and spirit.

    When all three are in balance, "miracles" can happen.
    Yes. Emotional, mental, physical and spiritual parts need to be integrated within the individual and thus in society too. That way there can be healing and harmony, but it requires a lot of self-observation.
    Yes!

    Now, how do we get from here to there? That is the big question.

    If it can happen anywhere, I believe it can happen right here at PA.

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by janus (here)
    Yes!

    Now, how do we get from here to there? That is the big question. If it can happen anywhere, I believe it can happen right here at PA.
    The first step is to go beyond politics and realize that if you get sucked into it again then you are being "played". You are not your conditioning.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)

    The first step is to go beyond politics and realize that if you get sucked into it again then you are being "played". You are not your conditioning.
    Ah, but who are 'you'?

    How many people really know themselves? are aware when ego takes over? know why they need to be 'right'?

    If you don't know yourself, how can you see others?

    I believe you were right when you said it requires a lot of self-observation.

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by janus (here)
    Quote Posted by Wind (here)

    The first step is to go beyond politics and realize that if you get sucked into it again then you are being "played". You are not your conditioning.
    Ah, but who are 'you'?

    How many people really know themselves? are aware when ego takes over? know why they need to be 'right'?

    If you don't know yourself, how can you see others?

    I believe you were right when you said it requires a lot of self-observation.
    Well for me its this simple ... if you are discussing politics from the perspective of a point on a political spectrum, then you are doing it wrong. It doesn't need to be more complex than that, and surely people can tell when their discussing that level of politics or not? No complex self observation is required.

    If a person can't even tell if they are discussing politics or not, then surely anything they might say on the topic would have no value anyway.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Can we not trust Bill and the moderators, who took quite sometime, before deciding to move the Q thread to members only?
    Is there a forum elsewhere that is a Q forum?
    If not members here could start one without leaving Avalon.
    I dont know just a passing thought

    Just some times Avalon looked like it was a Q forum and that may attract or detract new members.
    Chris
    The most important thing we can do is to stand up for what we believe is highest good for all, whether popular or unpopular. Two of the greatest things we can learn on this earth is to feel gratitude and display courage.

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  33. Link to Post #177
    United States Avalon Member
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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by janus (here)
    Quote Posted by Wind (here)

    The first step is to go beyond politics and realize that if you get sucked into it again then you are being "played". You are not your conditioning.
    Ah, but who are 'you'?

    How many people really know themselves? are aware when ego takes over? know why they need to be 'right'?

    If you don't know yourself, how can you see others?

    I believe you were right when you said it requires a lot of self-observation.
    Well for me its this simple ... if you are discussing politics from the perspective of a point on a political spectrum, then you are doing it wrong. It doesn't need to be more complex than that, and surely people can tell when their discussing that level of politics or not? No complex self observation is required.

    If a person can't even tell if they are discussing politics or not, then surely anything they might say on the topic would have no value anyway.
    I was speaking to Wind's comment prior to what is quoted above when she said,

    Quote Yes. Emotional, mental, physical and spiritual parts need to be integrated within the individual and thus in society too. That way there can be healing and harmony, but it requires a lot of self-observation.
    There is very little in today's world that has not become highly political...which can leave us gazing at our navals for lack of anything to discuss.

    Are we looking for healing and harmony or are we looking for a temporary fix?

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  35. Link to Post #178
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by peterpam (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Can we not trust Bill and the moderators, who took quite sometime, before deciding to move the Q thread to members only?
    Is there a forum elsewhere that is a Q forum?
    If not members here could start one without leaving Avalon.
    I dont know just a passing thought

    Just some times Avalon looked like it was a Q forum and that may attract or detract new members.
    Chris
    The most important thing we can do is to stand up for what we believe is highest good for all, whether popular or unpopular. Two of the greatest things we can learn on this earth is to feel gratitude and display courage.
    Think Bill and the mods did exactly that.
    Trouble in standing up for what you believe in is sometimes you step on someones toes --smiling.
    Sometimes its a no win situation.
    This why we have moderators.
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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  37. Link to Post #179
    Moderator Pam's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Quote Posted by peterpam (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Can we not trust Bill and the moderators, who took quite sometime, before deciding to move the Q thread to members only?
    Is there a forum elsewhere that is a Q forum?
    If not members here could start one without leaving Avalon.
    I dont know just a passing thought

    Just some times Avalon looked like it was a Q forum and that may attract or detract new members.
    Chris
    The most important thing we can do is to stand up for what we believe is highest good for all, whether popular or unpopular. Two of the greatest things we can learn on this earth is to feel gratitude and display courage.
    Think Bill and the mods did exactly that.
    Trouble in standing up for what you believe in is sometimes you step on someones toes --smiling.
    Sometimes its a no win situation.
    This why we have moderators.
    Chris
    Your point is well taken. I have the deepest respect for you Chris. I believe it is a healthy thing if we get our toes stepped on some times. If one is willing, it can be a great way to learn about ourselves. One of the most valuable tools for self analysis that I have found is looking at why I am aggravated about something. It almost always comes back to something about me that I don't want to acknowledge.
    Last edited by Pam; 13th July 2019 at 16:13.

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  39. Link to Post #180
    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 'censorship' discussion

    Quote Posted by janus (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by janus (here)
    Quote Posted by Wind (here)

    The first step is to go beyond politics and realize that if you get sucked into it again then you are being "played". You are not your conditioning.
    Ah, but who are 'you'?

    How many people really know themselves? are aware when ego takes over? know why they need to be 'right'?

    If you don't know yourself, how can you see others?

    I believe you were right when you said it requires a lot of self-observation.
    Well for me its this simple ... if you are discussing politics from the perspective of a point on a political spectrum, then you are doing it wrong. It doesn't need to be more complex than that, and surely people can tell when their discussing that level of politics or not? No complex self observation is required.

    If a person can't even tell if they are discussing politics or not, then surely anything they might say on the topic would have no value anyway.
    I was speaking to Wind's comment prior to what is quoted above when she said,

    Quote Yes. Emotional, mental, physical and spiritual parts need to be integrated within the individual and thus in society too. That way there can be healing and harmony, but it requires a lot of self-observation.
    There is very little in today's world that has not become highly political...which can leave us gazing at our navals for lack of anything to discuss.

    Are we looking for healing and harmony or are we looking for a temporary fix?
    Consider this ... the action of not getting oneself caught up in the mind manipulation that is political alignments (or religious alignments or whatever), by expelling such dichotomous programs from the thoughts is the medicine for a permanent fix. However the mind is hard to reprogram, but it is much easier to reprogram if you can back it with action - such as committing to not carry on discussion at that level of divide. That physical action will reinforce the ability to prevent such thoughts from entering your mind.

    The tiny simple actions we use daily all the time go towards reinforcing our thoughts and beliefs like a feedback loop -- you can disrupt this loop simply by adjusting your daily actions, not carrying on a discussion topic that was designed for, and is very good at creating polar opposites, prevents that polarization from occurring in your mind.

    Humans tend to over-complicate everything, likely because it is enabling ..

    One doesn't need to find the right way be "political" -- one needs to fully abandon all the thought systems and programs that create the polarization, and create or use new systems of thought.

    But I will agree that many people don't understand that sometimes the appearance of opposite of what you were doing that was causing the problem, is also not at all the solution to the problem - when people get disillusioned with the (left/right) they erroneously believe that changing their thought program towards the opposite pole is the answer -- only abandoning such thought systems will help correct this issue. Which can be had more easily by changing small daily habits on how you interact with others and your environment.

    You can't change "others" - so I agree in that difficulty, you can only change yourself, and when you show others with these daily actions and commitments, others may observe and learn of your "better way" (even if subconsciously).

    Almost nothing good ever comes out of political discussions, its when the discussion falls outside of that that it tends to have the potential for productivity.

    If one believes there's nothing to discuss but politics, then I'd say one must have strong political thought programs if that is all they can observe. If I tell my friend to stop talking politics with me, because I think its stupid an immature, maybe that can allow me to influence his relationship to that thought program, a positive effect.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 13th July 2019 at 16:34.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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