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Thread: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    Hello, Everyone: a couple of points here to start.

    1. This post (and the discussion which may ensue) is in a standalone new thread. That's because it doesn't belong among analysis of the Q material, or analysis of who might be behind Q and why.

    2. It's about what happens with people who get hooked. Whether Q is Trump's personal aide, a CIA spook, a bunch of Russians, or a kid in his bedroom. It makes no difference.

    So if you're a Q follower reading this, this post is about you. I mean, really you.

    It started when I searched on the net half an hour ago for Qanon+ addiction+ dopamine. I was sure there'd be a ton of articles. But I found none.

    So here's what seems evident to me is happening — again, regardless of who Q is, or whether any of the information is in any way valid.

    The issue is the decoding of the Q drops — or images that are associated. What's as plain as day is that nothing is spelled out clearly. Everyone will agree on that.

    So that leaves everyone playing a let's-solve-the-puzzle game. And we're not even going to ask WHY someone intending to release valuable information to a hungry audience might make it so cryptic that even the diehard Q followers often can't agree exactly what something means.

    (What I will say, though, is something that everyone will ALSO agree on: that the originator of the material wants it to be obscure, and wants people to play a guessing game.)

    So here's where addiction comes in.

    It's well-accepted now that people get hooked on things like receiving e-mails or other messages, thanks and likes to comments, and so on. It's the dopamine hit thing. This has been extensively discussed, and by healthcare professionals too. It's why people sleep with their smartphones.

    The addiction comes from the uncertainty. If you KNEW that you'd receive an e-mail, or a message, or a thanks, or a like, regularly on the hour every 2 hours, as if it were mechanical, and never at any other time, there'd be a far smaller addiction problem. You'd just check the time, having maybe set an alarm, and then take a look.

    It'd not be a random thing that gets you excited and hoping.

    That's because the addiction comes from not knowing whether you're going to 'win' or not. Sometimes you get the reward. Sometimes you don't.

    It's the same with gambling. Gambling's addictive only because one sometimes wins.

    With Qanon, it's similar. If the Q drops were spelled out clearly (as has been the case with every other 'whistleblower' in history apart from Nostradamus!), and the images actually meant something obvious and incontrovertible, then there'd be no dopamine hits, no excitement, no addiction, no hanging in there day and night wondering whether your guess would later prove to be right or not.

    Folks, if you're stuck on Qanon every day, you're addicted. You really are.

    If you're telling yourself you're not, and that I'm talking offensive nonsense (and some surely will) — then give Qanon a break for a week or two and see what it feels like. Keep a journal and report back to us here. You might help a lot of people.

    I intend no disrespect, and I'm serious.

    And the conflict that often arises between passionate Q followers and those who aren't interested and don't care is VERY similar to the conflict between an addict and their friends and family.

    Those who aren't addicted despair, and can't understand, and get angry at their friend or loved one. To them, it's utterly clear what's happening.

    And the person who is addicted defends themselves, and gets angry back, and justifies everything, and feels persecuted and maybe also discriminated against in some way.

    And they hang out with their fellow-addict friends, who will agree with everything they're telling themselves. That just reinforces whatever habit it is.

    Look at the patterns. Look at the similarities. If you can, step back from whatever your personal position is on all this, and see it all from a distance. There's a chance the whole thing may all come into view.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 22nd July 2019 at 00:29.

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    Thumbs up Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    An excellent and insightful post, Bill ─ thank you.

    Yes, the mysterious, cryptic nature of QAnon is definitely part of its attraction to some, and especially so because the messages are being posted out in the open on a public message board, which causes the followers of those QAnon messages to become intellectually and emotionally drawn into the mystery, as if they themselves are the intended recipients of secret messages from what appears to be a real-life "James Bond"-style secret agent.

    This sense of involvement lifts the reader out of and above the mundaneness of their own daily life, and as such, taps into the reader's ego and desire to commit themselves to "the cause".

    In addition to the above, this alleged "secret operation" also taps into the thesis-and-antithesis duality, sparking the tribal warrior aspect of the human psyche ─ "us versus them" ─ as opposed to stimulating the psyche into seeking the synthesis instead.

    All of the above are indeed addictive to certain people, and most notably to people with a predisposition for political involvement and/or wild conspiracy theories. The rest of the energy comes from what appears to be a cosmic climate of strong polarization that's currently playing out here on Earth and that magnifies the effects of everything, on every side ─ a kind of quickening, if you will.

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    Default Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    While the Original Post presents this information relating to only Q, as if only people who read Q are addicts. This issue of social media, marketing and tech companies using our dopamine-pathway for their benefit is huge and much bigger than Q.

    This is a problem across all forms of media. And it's used to manipulate media across all platforms.

    Quote Social Media Addiction – The Facts and Solutions

    What is Social Media Addiction?

    A 2014 study shows that excessive use of technology by teenagers has caused disruptions in their physical and mental health, sleeping patterns, their weight and levels of exercise and notably in their school work8.

    40% of young adults and 21% of adults, admit to using social media even while in the bathroom. Why is it that we can’t seem to stay away from social media, even for a few minutes?

    Well, research shows us that social media is addictive. Studies show that all the retweets and Facebook likes have affected our brain’s reward area. Social media interaction is like syringing dopamine straight into the system.
    Forums are also social media. And people can become addicted to visiting their favorite forum.

    Quote Social Media Addiction

    Social Media became part of our lives in the new millennium. As of August 2017, approximately 2 billion people are using Facebook around the world. Other popular platforms are Youtube, WhatsApp, Instagram, Linkedin, Google+ and Twitter with millions of active users.1
    Social media creates a network of people around the world. Therefore, they are able to share information, career interests and other forms of interaction via virtual communities.1
    How has Social Media Impacted our World?

    There is still an ongoing discussion between experts about the benefits and disadvantages of social media. We already have examples that show social media’s power such as:

    the Arab Spring in the 2010s changing the governments of many countries.
    South Korean musician Psy setting a record in 2012 for the most watched video with “Gangnam Style” (surpassed only five years later by “See You Again”).
    Barack Obama’s very successful presidential “social media campaign” back in 20082.
    Anthony Weiner’s use of the social media platform Twitter to send inappropriate messages, leading to his resignation from U.S. Congress3.

    Do we maybe spend too much time on social media?
    What is Social Media Addiction?

    A 2014 study shows that excessive use of technology by teenagers has caused disruptions in their physical and mental health, sleeping patterns, their weight and levels of exercise and notably in their school work8.

    40% of young adults and 21% of adults, admit to using social media even while in the bathroom. Why is it that we can’t seem to stay away from social media, even for a few minutes?

    Well, research shows us that social media is addictive. Studies show that all the retweets and Facebook likes have affected our brain’s reward area. Social media interaction is like syringing dopamine straight into the system.
    The Mechanism of Addiction

    Our reward area located in the mesencephalon (midbrain), and its pathways, affect our decisions and sensations. When we experience something rewarding (or use an addictive substance) neurons in the principal dopamine-producing areas in the brain (the VTA) are activated, causing dopamine levels to rise. Therefore, the brain receives a “reward” and associates the drug or activity with positive reinforcement. For this reason, activities which increase dopamine levels are the basis to the mechanism of addiction5.
    From marketing to Facebook, to your smart phone setting up notifications, most, if not all technology uses this Dopamine mechansism to keep our attention engaged.

    There are lots of ways that people can become aware of and address the ongoing issue of Tech and marketing companies targeting our dopamine pathways to keep us "hooked".

    I don't have any notifications on my phone.
    I have it on airplane mode most of the day.
    I used the subscription system here at Avalon to ensure I can keep my focus where I want it.
    I try to have my computer turned off at least 2 hours before bed, because of the negative affect that "blue light" has on hormone cycles.

    To learn more:
    Quote
    Marketing's Ethical Line Between Social Media Habit and Addiction

    Where is the ethical line in marketing between hooking a customer and getting them hooked?

    Media is an open door to the public mind, Edward Bernays wrote in his landmark 1947 essay “The Engineering of Consent.”

    “Any one of us through these media may influence the attitudes and actions of our fellow citizens,” he wrote. “The United States has become a small room in which a single whisper is magnified thousands of times.”
    Quote The Psychology of Social Media: Why We Like, Comment, and Share Online

    Why We're All Addicted to Texts, Twitter and Google

    Automatic notifications are touted as wonderful features of hardware, software, and apps. But they are actually causing you to be like a rat in a cage. If you want to get work done you need to turn off as many auditory and visual cues as possible. It's the best way to prevent and break the dopamine loops.

    Quote Has dopamine got us hooked on tech?
    Silicon Valley is keen to exploit the brain chemical credited with keeping us tapping on apps and social media
    This dopamine addiction is most prevalent in video games.
    However, is can be used to positive affect, too.

    Quote
    Neuroscience Insights from Video Game & Drug Addiction

    The Video Game Model Sustains Perseverance and Desire for Increasing Challenge in All Learning

    The motivating video games place players at their individualized achievable challenge levels. When children have opportunities to participate in learning challenges at their individualized achievable challenge level, their brains invest more effort to the task and are more responsive to feedback and they reach levels of engagement much like the focus and perseverance we see when they play their video games
    Khan Academy uses this model and is very effective.

    To address the concern about Q posts "cryptic" nature. It's used to get around the algorithms.
    Last edited by edina; 22nd July 2019 at 02:32.

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    United States Avalon Member Jad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    Very good point Bill. But I can say the same thing about soccer too. For example in my friends WhatsApp group almost 90 percent of the narrative is about soccer and what’s the latest speculation about transfers and predictions about wins and whatnot ( I am a Liverpool fan btw! I was in the stadium in Istanbul in 2005 ). Almost any topic out there will have a religious following. Q happens to cater to the ones who wants to look behind the curtain which I would guess describes most of the folks here on Avalon.

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    Default Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    I agree with Edina and Jad in that the Q material is no more addictive than Project Avalon, or Joseph Farrells news and views from the Nefarium, or any other interesting source of information. Should we tell Joseph Farrell to stop reading his emails for a week because his addiction to knowledge is bad for his health? (I’ve been a member of his website for 3 years now and I’ve always been worried about his constant smoking and apparent lack of exercise regimen).

    The only difference with the Q material is that it’s more interactive, more collaborative, it requires more of a team effort to figure things out and put the puzzle pieces together. Hence why I’ve said that it operates more like an outsourced intelligence network.

    I know the people who try and disparage the Q movement haven’t read my psychological analyses of the Q phenomenon over this past year, or if they do read them, they haven’t discerned the cognitive principles discussed. Based on my past two decades of studying hypnosis, psychology, NLP, esoteric systems etc, I’ve got a pretty good understanding of how psychological operations work (every technique in hypnotherapy is a psychological operation). I posted here that the Q movement seems to operate on principles of Systems Theory and OODA loops (tote loops in psychology). No one has ever challenged or tried to debate against my understanding of the movement.

    I recently found some verication for my analysis by none other than our very own intelligence operative and Avalon member Robert David Steele, who literally wrote the book on outsourced intelligence.

    ========
    Robert Steele: Core Works UPDATED with 21st Century University
    #OSE Open Source Everything, Collective Intelligence, Cultural Intelligence, Earth Intelligence, Peace Intelligence


    Short URL: http://tinyurl.com/Steele-Core

    2017 was one of my most productive years, and it has led to two complaints:

    01 What do you stand for? You seem scattered.

    02 You are writing and speaking so much, it is hard for me to drill down to the bare bones reading that I can afford to spend time on.

    Fair enough. Below are the answers to both those questions.

    01 I stand for, and will always stand for, the US Constitution, the Republic, and the reform of the electoral process, the intelligence process, the governance process (including especially the citizen educational process), and the national security process which I now define as including the nationalization of the Federal Reserve and the elimination of the Deep State.



    02 I am troubled by the inability of most people to read with discernment. I am however, sympathetic to the question. There are three points of entry for recognizing that I have been right all along, since 1988, and that now is the time to pay attention and dismiss those that have been so successful in marginalizing me because they know I can reduce their budgets by 70% — including the Department of Defense Budget — because my ideas can cut the federal government in half, eliminate the 50% waste in the Western economy, take down the Deep State, and create a prosperous world at peace, a world that works for everyone. That is why I was recommended for the Nobel Peace Prize, which I neither expect nor deserve, but I believe President Trump can win it twice if not three times: Koreas, Middle East, and implementing my ideas.

    I am focused on three projects:

    01 Creating a new truth channel that integrates text messages, emails, videos, posts, and shared files that displaced #GoogleGestapo and cannot be censored or manipulated and will not tolerate digital assassination of both progressive and conservative voices against the Deep State.

    02 #UNRIG Election Reform, a project I founded with the early support of Cynthia McKinney, a gracious elegant national leader we need to see more of.

    03 Educating the world — America first — on the depth and breadth of both pedophilia and murderous pedophilia including Satanic Ritual Abuse, in my capacity as Chief Counsel (pro bono) for the Judicial Commission of Inquiry into Human Trafficking and Child Sex Abuse.

    Dummies Guide to Robert’s Vision for the Future of Intelligence/IT
















    ==========

    Maybe Bill or other mods could interview Robert David Steele and get his take on what the Q phenomenon is?

    If Robert David Steele says it’s a LARP, hoax, or damaging addictive game, then he’s someone with enough insights that I’d take seriously. As far as I can tell though, the Q movement is perfectly aligned to Robert Steeles outsourced intelligence methodology. To the point that it could even be his creation. Heck, he evens mentions his work with Cynthia McKinney and it was Cynthia McKinney who told us Q was Steve Piezcenik on her twitter last year. I guess if Steele is the originator of outsourced intelligence, his relationship with McKinney would put her in a perfect position to know who was behind it.
    Last edited by Jayke; 22nd July 2019 at 08:01.

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    Default Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    It seems to me the "Q" phenomenon compounds a number of other phenomena on top of - or in support of - or providing a fertile ground for - the addiction one.

    One, is the matter of "Cognitive Dissonance" phenomenon as described by Leon Festinger in his "When Prophecy Fails" and which applies to any thwarted hope and expectation.

    Then, there is the psy-op mechanisms which are designed to trigger and engage deep unconscious "hooks" common to the collective "unconscious" of most humans of this planet as described by Jon Rappoport (here):
    The disaster of manufactured consent in the Matrix
    by Jon Rappoport March 15, 2013
    www.nomorefakenews.com [now defunct]

    [...]

    In the Matrix, there is pressure to have people connect their realities to each other. Why? Because groups can thus be created. Groups are easier to compromise than individuals.

    We get the concept of hooked ideas. A hooked idea is one which will entice people to merge their realities into One. The hooked idea can be expressed as a slogan, a so-called meme, a principle. It is introduced by people who work psyops.

    A psyop is a campaign to herd people into a place where their individual realities overlap.

    For the propagandist, there is the eternal search for the good, better, and best hooking idea, the one that will collect the greatest possible number of people under one roof.

    This has nothing to do with true progress or honest intent. It has everything to do with control.

    [...]

    This same retired propaganda operative, who goes by the pseudonym of Ellis Medavoy (I interview him 28 times in one section of my collection, THE MATRIX REVEALED), explained this “psyop calculation”:
    Quote “The target of a terrific psyop is yearning and longing. That’s what I looked for when I was working: what people long and yearn for. Something unformed and undefined but very powerful. That’s what I wanted to tap into.

    “If I could tap into that, people would buy in and surrender a significant part of whatever their personal world looks like. Because they want to believe they’re coming together with like-minded others. They’ll also believe the path laid out for them is correct and proper and wonderful. This is really a fake religion we’re talking about.

    “A fake religion. It’s really for children, and most people turn out to be children. Give them a group of high-minded ideas, and they’ll grab on and think everything they’ve done up to that moment is a prelude to THIS.

    “We [operatives] are playing a symphony, you see, and once they listen to the prelude, they’re hooked. They stay. They long for the climax, which doesn’t exist; not the way they imagine it. To them it’s all about ‘arrival in the promised land,’ as if that’s some kind of gift that’s wrapped up under the tree, waiting to be opened.

    “We give them a fake god, a dead-end god. If they were once burning with authentic faith, we derail that and take them to another place…”
    [...]

    This has less and less to do with personal reality.

    Manufactured consent in the Matrix is a bit of a misnomer. Manufactured consent IS the Matrix, at the most profound level.

    [...]

    A great deal of history of the human race, littered as it is with suffering and pain and war and hunger, was produced by competing psyops.

    Each side was utterly convinced that its ideals were superior. What neither side realized was that everybody, on all sides, was accepting a psyop substitute of their own personal reality. That was the big switch.

    [...]

    You could accurately write, on many gravestones: “I died for a psyop.”

    [...]

    Freedom? Democracy? The will of the people? A better future for all? Equality? Justice? These are merely concepts in search of ways to run psyops.

    Jon Rappoport

    [emphases mine]
    --------------------------------------------------
    Then, somewhere, I wrote this:
    Quote Posted by Hervé
    Quite a test... someone must have found a way of triggering a real deep, collective unconscious programming to get it so widespread...
    When put together with how psy-ops are manufactured (above) and one may realize there is no need to "infiltrate" because the recruiting happens right on the spot wherever one gets "hooked" via those deep, deep longings and yearnings finally running into some potentially, materially realizable manifestations.

    The two most powerful unconscious emotional juggernauts one can tap into with hooks are fear and hope.... even more powerful when the two are combined: the fear of hell and the promise of paradise... the hope of no more wars but the constantly maintained fear of nuclear conflicts... and Q, either accidentally or intentionally is playing the combination of both: the hope of a better world via the eradication of fear (the deep state/enslavers).

    So, no need to send infiltrators on missions as members of alt-media communities... the infiltration is already inherent within the human emotional make up and the emotional grand divide occurs within families, never mind communities or nations.
    Then, there is the "Gaming" hook: The resolving of a mystery which, in older times, prevented readers to put down a book before reaching "The End." Conan Doyle and Agatha Christie made fortunes with those...
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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    Default Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    Addiction is funny business and profitable especially with alcohol. I met all the criteria for alcoholic when I drank. I would buy and drink more beer than any four people I knew with exception of my two best friends that kept up with me beer to beer easily. We'd each buy a 30 pack of beer and go to the farm on a weekend and by Sun. we'd be out of beer and buy more on the drive home! Everyone thought we were alcoholics. Even tried an intervention on my one friend but we only heard about it. One night way back when, I think like 2002 but my wife says it was 2000 we really don't remember but one day I just decided to quit. And I did right there and then without rehab, without some 12 step program. I did it without a babysitter to make sure I behaved and I did it overnight. I never had cravings, never had anything but the hangover the morning I quit. They say now I can't have been an alcoholic or I'd know the very day I quit as well as the month and year and I know none of that! I think it Feb/Mar but not even sure on that. I quit. I haven't had anything other than an occasional joint or bowl of some fine smoke since. Greg my other friend eventually quit the same way. Sam? Still drinks some but no where like the old days.

    I think some people struggle with quitting but for some reason I see it as a habit or routine and it's easy to make up new habits or routines just the way I did the one I was used to. I think a lot of money is behind addiction to promote it as real because it's profitable to keep people from knowing their own power and necessary to make them give it away by telling them over and over "You can't do it alone" blah blah blah! It's all nonsense Bill. My thoughts!? You think too much! I thought I was bad.
    The genius consistently stands out from the masses in that he unconsciously anticipates truths of which the population as a whole only later becomes conscious! Speech-circa 1937

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    Default Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    Mod note from Bill:

    I moved three posts here to the main Q thread (now renamed The Qanon posts, and associated US political debate). The posts were interesting, connected with discussing Trump, and there was nothing at all wrong with them. But here the new topic is not to discuss Trump pro or con, but to discuss addiction. THX.




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    Default Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    It seems to me the "Q" phenomenon compounds a number of other phenomena on top of - or in support of - or providing a fertile ground for - the addiction one.

    One, is the matter of "Cognitive Dissonance" phenomenon as described by Leon Festinger in his "When Prophecy Fails" and which applies to any thwarted hope and expectation.

    Then, there is the psy-op mechanisms which are designed to trigger and engage deep unconscious "hooks" common to the collective "unconscious" of most humans of this planet as described by Jon Rappoport (here):
    The disaster of manufactured consent in the Matrix
    by Jon Rappoport March 15, 2013
    www.nomorefakenews.com [now defunct]

    [...]

    In the Matrix, there is pressure to have people connect their realities to each other. Why? Because groups can thus be created. Groups are easier to compromise than individuals.

    We get the concept of hooked ideas. A hooked idea is one which will entice people to merge their realities into One. The hooked idea can be expressed as a slogan, a so-called meme, a principle. It is introduced by people who work psyops.

    A psyop is a campaign to herd people into a place where their individual realities overlap.

    For the propagandist, there is the eternal search for the good, better, and best hooking idea, the one that will collect the greatest possible number of people under one roof.

    This has nothing to do with true progress or honest intent. It has everything to do with control.

    [...]

    This same retired propaganda operative, who goes by the pseudonym of Ellis Medavoy (I interview him 28 times in one section of my collection, THE MATRIX REVEALED), explained this “psyop calculation”:
    Quote “The target of a terrific psyop is yearning and longing. That’s what I looked for when I was working: what people long and yearn for. Something unformed and undefined but very powerful. That’s what I wanted to tap into.

    “If I could tap into that, people would buy in and surrender a significant part of whatever their personal world looks like. Because they want to believe they’re coming together with like-minded others. They’ll also believe the path laid out for them is correct and proper and wonderful. This is really a fake religion we’re talking about.

    “A fake religion. It’s really for children, and most people turn out to be children. Give them a group of high-minded ideas, and they’ll grab on and think everything they’ve done up to that moment is a prelude to THIS.

    “We [operatives] are playing a symphony, you see, and once they listen to the prelude, they’re hooked. They stay. They long for the climax, which doesn’t exist; not the way they imagine it. To them it’s all about ‘arrival in the promised land,’ as if that’s some kind of gift that’s wrapped up under the tree, waiting to be opened.

    “We give them a fake god, a dead-end god. If they were once burning with authentic faith, we derail that and take them to another place…”
    [...]

    This has less and less to do with personal reality.

    Manufactured consent in the Matrix is a bit of a misnomer. Manufactured consent IS the Matrix, at the most profound level.

    [...]

    A great deal of history of the human race, littered as it is with suffering and pain and war and hunger, was produced by competing psyops.

    Each side was utterly convinced that its ideals were superior. What neither side realized was that everybody, on all sides, was accepting a psyop substitute of their own personal reality. That was the big switch.

    [...]

    You could accurately write, on many gravestones: “I died for a psyop.”

    [...]

    Freedom? Democracy? The will of the people? A better future for all? Equality? Justice? These are merely concepts in search of ways to run psyops.

    Jon Rappoport

    [emphases mine]
    --------------------------------------------------
    Then, somewhere, I wrote this:
    Quote Posted by Hervé
    Quite a test... someone must have found a way of triggering a real deep, collective unconscious programming to get it so widespread...
    When put together with how psy-ops are manufactured (above) and one may realize there is no need to "infiltrate" because the recruiting happens right on the spot wherever one gets "hooked" via those deep, deep longings and yearnings finally running into some potentially, materially realizable manifestations.

    The two most powerful unconscious emotional juggernauts one can tap into with hooks are fear and hope.... even more powerful when the two are combined: the fear of hell and the promise of paradise... the hope of no more wars but the constantly maintained fear of nuclear conflicts... and Q, either accidentally or intentionally is playing the combination of both: the hope of a better world via the eradication of fear (the deep state/enslavers).

    So, no need to send infiltrators on missions as members of alt-media communities... the infiltration is already inherent within the human emotional make up and the emotional grand divide occurs within families, never mind communities or nations.
    Then, there is the "Gaming" hook: The resolving of a mystery which, in older times, prevented readers to put down a book before reaching "The End." Conan Doyle and Agatha Christie made fortunes with those...
    True. But the same can be said for any movement, religion, cult or secret society. The thing that separates the Q movement from any other organisational structure is its open source nature. The hive mind of secret societies are conducted behind closed doors, strange initiations and 33 degrees or more of hoop jumping ceremonies before being allowed into the inner sanctum of private discussions that shape the hierarchical structure of the organisation.

    The Q phenomenon is open to anyone with a willingness to problem solve, the research is open to anyone to review, the logical connections made free to anyone to address or dismiss as they see fit. Might seem like subtle differences to some, but discernible differences nonetheless.

    I actually ignored the Q thread for the first few months it was out, it was too cryptic for me. I only became interested after seeing how it was galvanising and creating a new organisational structure out of the level 7 archetype. This is something that’s never happened in history before, only made available due to the Internet. As a systems theorist, it’s fascinating to witness theories written down 30 years ago, begin to crystallise and take shape in society. I don’t see anything sinister or malevolent, to me it’s just an organic, inevitable development that occurs within character archetype interactions.

    The ideology wars that go on during mutable stages between character types is no different than the chemical waves of Belousov–Zhabotinsky reactions, or BZ reactions discussed by Paul Laviollete.


    The science of addiction is really the science of bonding. (Any mods know how to embed a TED talk?)
    https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_har...wrong#t-870439

    How do old bonds break down and new bonds become established within the context of systems theory:

    I actually wrote about the polarisation issue, in relation to mutable aspects of a complex system back in February last year.

    Quote I think it’s a natural phenomena more so than deliberately created by the elite. They certainly help fan the flames to steer things towards their own agenda; but even amongst the elite, they’re having their own internal disputes and taking sides, going through their own balkanisations.

    Systems theory explains the situation pretty well imo.

    The 3 primary drivers in systems theory are ‘Pattern’, ‘Process’ and ‘Structure’. Think of it in terms of classical music. ‘Pattern’ is the full and complete piece of sheet music that’s laid out on the piano waiting to be played. Pressing and holding just 1 key in that piece of music would create a tone, that tone held in cymatics form would create a structure. As you progress through the sheet music, different cymatic structures are created as each new tone is played. How the sand on the cymatics plate shifts from one structure to the next, as each new tone is played, is called the process.

    ‘Process’ itself is made up of 3 parts—and if you’re familiar with astrology you’ll already know them—‘Cardinal’, ‘Fixed’ and ‘Mutable’.

    When we’re in a cardinal phase, lots of energy is introduced, production increases, stuff gets built, new structures are created.
    Fixed phases see greater stability and cooperation, the strengthening of bonds to solidify the structure.
    When entering the mutable phase however, that’s where most of the emotional turmoil; fear, doubt, worry, anger etc all starts to spill out. Old structures start to collapse as the cardinal energies for new structures create disharmony with conflicting tones.

    This is where we get the classic dichotomy between those who lean to the left versus those who lean to the right. The roots of the terms ‘left’ and ‘right’ started during the opening stages of the French Revolution and were tied in with the concept of historical progress. The “left” were progressive and revolutionary forces that sought to march forward, while the right-wing were the “reactionaries” and “conservatives” who sought to preserve or restore the existing power.

    These two groups tend to squabble, especially during mutable phases, because people experience a great deal of cognitive dissonance as they get caught between their attachment of how things were, versus the confusion of what’s to come and how things will be.

    In today’s western society you’ve got the conservative, protectionist elite, who want to keep people subjugated to prevent them losing their established order; and you’ve got a progressive, liberal left, who are completely confused and disorientated, and feel as though progress should be made, except they’re all infighting as to what ‘progress’ means and in which direction to march, there’s no cohesion. In mutable phases, it’s typical to see the infighting get worse, until society grinds to a halt or old social structures collapse as cohesion dissipates.

    Meanwhile, countries like China and Russia are already a step ahead of the West in terms of pattern. Russia and China are in the cardinal phase of building a multipolar world. They’re building new structures that are making the existing unipolar order obsolete. The fact that the rest of the world is already moving on from the old unipolar structure (China’s petroyuan futures trading goes live on 26th March), is only heaping pressure on the Western world—who are still dazed, confused and attached to a structure that’s losing cohesion day after day.

    The more people cling to their subjective worldview—of how the world “should be” in their idealistic notions of utopia—the more blind they’ll be to how the organisational structures of the world are genuinely unfolding; and the more irate, upset and emotional they’ll become as the world continues to unfold in a way that’s different to how they envisioned it to be.

    My conclusion then, it’s an unfortunate (albeit necessary) part of the process for the upscaling of humanity. It’s classic psychology, as described and made popular by Piaget in his models of cognitive development and applied to epistemology and chaos theory. Tumultuous and frustrating times for sure, the ending of empires and creating of new ones, but onwards the pattern plays as humanity enters a new and different sonata.

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    Default Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    I’m glad you’re a member here Jayke! You always bring interesting content to the discussion.

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    Default Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    One of the important aspects of true full blown addiction is compulsion. An addict will frequently find that they are not relaxed or enjoying themselves unless they are engaging in or preparing to engage in the addictive substance/process. There will be a back ground of anxiety until they can engage the addiction again. Things they used to love doing are no longer interesting. They may arrange their life and choose friendships that will allow them to engage in their addiction. Frequently associating with people that they would never have befriended before becoming addicted. Those people may be further down the addiction cycle, which allows the addict to deny the level of their behavior. Frequently there will be denial that a problem exists and an inability or refusal to evaluate the consequences of the addiction. In some addicts there is a strange alteration in thinking processes that allows the addict to repeatedly end up using or engaging in the addiction and not consciously know how it all started again. This happens when there was no conscious decision to engage in the addiction. An addict will frequently engage in the activity far longer then they intended. They might say they'll spend an hour engaging and find themselves still doing it hours or days later.

    The description above is based on my personal experience with addiction as well as what many other former addicts have shared.
    Last edited by Pam; 22nd July 2019 at 16:00.

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    Default Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    So that leaves everyone playing a let's-solve-the-puzzle game. And we're not even going to ask WHY someone intending to release valuable information to a hungry audience might make it so cryptic that even the diehard Q followers often can't agree exactly what something means.
    I found this part particularly amusing!

    Judging from Bill's observations, this seems very similar to the Nostradamus "puzzle", in that it is cryptic, and people have been getting obsessed with it.

    At one point in time I recall reading that someone finally decoded the Nostradamus prophecy (the article I can no longer find), and that the answer was/is a circle. I didn't understand, and maybe it wasn't true, but I laughed at the implication. I think if I spent years figuring out a puzzle, and it ended up taking me in a circle, I'd be pretty mad.

    If I had to take a guess between Q-Anon being brilliant puzzle, or a joke - I'd guess the joke (sorry Q-Anon fans)

    EDIT: I think the addiction will pass eventually too, and we need to consider WHY people are attracted to this. I feel that personally it's an attraction of deprivation, and once these people have "gotten their fill" they'll move on.
    Last edited by petra; 22nd July 2019 at 15:23.

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    Default Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    Brilliant Bill and all respondents. Very interesting! There is only one cure for games that combine personal puzzle solving skill with group interaction and team spirit with hope for the future. And that is to hit yourself in the head with a hammer while you are participating! The only thing that would make Qanon more appealing is if it was covered in chocolate or dipped in melted mozzarella cheese.

    I criticize it like crazy, but I totally get how people have gotten so hooked. It's beyond addiction. It is supplying people with family, friends, community that they may lack too.

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    Default Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)

    I criticize it like crazy, but I totally get how people have gotten so hooked. It's beyond addiction. It is supplying people with family, friends, community that they may lack too.
    I like your gentle passive aggressive remarks. It’s very amusing.

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    Default Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    Jad,

    I try not to bore the sh** out of people when I post, if that's what you mean. If a long serious well articulated post is necessary to make a point, that's fine. But I have no desire to create a 'masterpiece' of convoluted verbiage, that nobody will read. You are mistaking my efforts for "passive aggression." There's no veiled aggression here. I am being quite direct.

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    Default Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    Quote Posted by Jad (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)

    I criticize it like crazy, but I totally get how people have gotten so hooked. It's beyond addiction. It is supplying people with family, friends, community that they may lack too.
    I like your gentle passive aggressive remarks. It’s very amusing.
    Hey Jad,

    You're a good man and I very much enjoyed meeting you in Laughlin - though, unfortunately, I could only be there for the first day of the Gathering.

    So I know you'll understand when I ask that we try to maintain some sense of camaraderie in exploring the topic of this thread. Let's take the high road. We have all followed a long and circuitous path and now we meet here on Avalon, a place of learning and growth and the exchange of ideas. Let's try to keep it positive. There's more than enough negativity circling about right now.

    With Love,

    Ken
    "Love is the only engine of survival.." Leonard Cohen

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    Default Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Q ramps up compulsion by dropping bread crumbs that adherents feverishly try to piece together to construct a coherent meaningful whole. What they are really doing, speaking of bread, is seeing the face of Jesus in a piece of toast. Though, in this case there is just enough that is verifiably true in the 'drops' that it helps keep the disinfo game going.

    Nobody here engages anybody in games that people have to puzzle over to extract meaning. Farrel doesn't do this. Avalon doesn't do this.

    This is the salient feature that distinguishes Q from other disinformation campaigns, advertising campaigns, etc. It's really quite brilliant and I applaud those who started it. They understand human nature very well.
    Autumn,

    I left a post after Jad's response to you and then I saw that you had left another couple of responses to Jad. This isn't really very helpful dialogue here and I think I we might move your post to a more appropriate thread. This thread is meant to be a place for discussing the mechanisms of addiction relative to Qanon. Your post verges on simply bashing Qanon.

    Again, let's try to be constructive here.

    With Love,

    Ken
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    Default Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    Quote Posted by Ken (here)
    Quote Posted by Jad (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)

    I criticize it like crazy, but I totally get how people have gotten so hooked. It's beyond addiction. It is supplying people with family, friends, community that they may lack too.
    I like your gentle passive aggressive remarks. It’s very amusing.
    Hey Jad,

    You're a good man and I very much enjoyed meeting you in Laughlin - though, unfortunately, I could only be there for the first day of the Gathering.

    So I know you'll understand when I ask that we try to maintain some sense of camaraderie in exploring the topic of this thread. Let's take the high road. We have all followed a long and circuitous path and now we meet here on Avalon, a place of learning and growth and the exchange of ideas. Let's try to keep it positive. There's more than enough negativity circling about right now.

    With Love,

    Ken
    No problem Ken. Sorry Autumn for criticizing your response dear. Won’t happen again.

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    Default Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    Took a peek at this thread and had to laugh.

    Speaking of addiction, what about the addition of the folks who are determined to convince the Q'ers that we've become addicted?

    How many anti-Q, discuss Q, analysis Q, debate Q, Addiction Q threads have been started. All of which pretty much seem to be saying the same thing.

    Perhaps it's time to look in the mirror.

    We Q'ers are just fine and all intelligent folks, we hear what you are saying, just don't agree. We're moving along, but of course, we accept your right to do as you please.
    Last edited by Ba-ba-Ra; 23rd July 2019 at 21:31.
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    Default Re: Qanon and the mechanism of addiction

    Quote Posted by Ken (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Q ramps up compulsion by dropping bread crumbs that adherents feverishly try to piece together to construct a coherent meaningful whole. What they are really doing, speaking of bread, is seeing the face of Jesus in a piece of toast. Though, in this case there is just enough that is verifiably true in the 'drops' that it helps keep the disinfo game going.

    Nobody here engages anybody in games that people have to puzzle over to extract meaning. Farrel doesn't do this. Avalon doesn't do this.

    This is the salient feature that distinguishes Q from other disinformation campaigns, advertising campaigns, etc. It's really quite brilliant and I applaud those who started it. They understand human nature very well.
    Autumn,

    I left a post after Jad's response to you and then I saw that you had left another couple of responses to Jad. This isn't really very helpful dialogue here and I think I we might move your post to a more appropriate thread. This thread is meant to be a place for discussing the mechanisms of addiction relative to Qanon. Your post verges on simply bashing Qanon.

    Again, let's try to be constructive here.

    With Love,

    Ken
    Please point to where I have bashed Q followers. I stated in all sincerity that I totally GET why people are drawn to it.

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