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Thread: Sexsomnia and you...

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    Default Sexsomnia and you...

    Much to my dismay, I've discovered that Sexsomnia is a legitimate disorder which is affecting people. Also known as 'Sleep Sex', it's like sleepwaking - but with sex.
    A man was recently released from sexual abuse charges on his daughter, because the abuse was determined to be a result of this disorder.
    So many people are angry at this, and I dare not side with this man - but I'm trying to imagine both sides.
    Consider, any one of us could "accidentally" molest someone in our sleep if we had this disorder.
    I've been considering the guilt factor too. If what he says is true... there isn't one.

    Another thread popped up on PA recently about guilt by association and scapegoating, and the scapegoating really caught my attention, because that's what it seems like he is - a scapegoat.

    On the other hand, he could be lying. If he's a liar and I end up believing the lies - that makes ME the guilty one now doesn't it.

    I'd be interested to hear any comments on this whatsoever, especially if anyone feels like saying anything that might help me calm down

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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    Tough subject - because being wrong on this conclusion either way will make you feel "not good". I have my doubts that this is a real thing, but it could be. My stance is to not conclude on it. I don't need to figure that out. Trying to do so only has the end to either feel "good" about my judgements, or feel good about not judging. "Feeling good" about our thoughts judgements and conclusions, I find, is an addiction in itself.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    Just an excuse for perverts.
    There is no disorder that excuses sex with your own children.
    Not buying it.
    Would never happen to me I guarantee it. And if I did I would kill myself from the shame!
    Forget about it

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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    That's one crime that, if caught, one would say literally anything to get out of the stigma, much less the punishment.

    Not to mention, one can always wake the somnambulist.

    Alternate thread title: The Dangers of Ambien
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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    A LOT of women sleep walk through sex!

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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    My stance is to not conclude on it.
    100% agreed.
    Just as every cop is a criminal
    And all the sinners saints

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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    Hmmm....

    I recall being a boy and witnessing my Dad sleep walk. He'd arrive in our room, angry and disheveled, and demand we get ready for some implied event. We'd explain to him it was midnight, tell him he was acting funny (we were kids. We didn't know what sleepwalking was) and urge him to go back to bed.

    My lasting memory is the look of utter confusion on his face. This might have happened 3 or 4 times. The episode would last several minutes in length. I do recall my Mom ushering him back to bed one time.

    Another time, at a hotel, I woke up to my Dad shouting and thrashing around. He was sleep walking and got caught up in a huge fake plant. We laugh alot about all that stuff now, but it was sort of frightening when it happened.

    In college, I began sleep walking myself. Once I attempted to pee out of my dorm window. The issue was, my roommates' bed was adjacent to the window. I pee'd all over the poor guy. And after that I went out into the hallway and began peeing on everyone's door knobs.

    Here's the thing: i was told I did those things. I didn't have any immediate memory of them. As days went by, I had little flashes here n there, and then it all slowly came back.

    Point being: this man's defense sounds dubious at best and inexcuseably pitiful at worst. But it's not out of the realm of possibility. I've seen and experienced these states firsthand. The confusion can go on for several minutes, which is just enough time for any sort of horrible thing to happen
    Last edited by Mike; 1st August 2019 at 20:33.

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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    Somnambulism is very weird and can provide silly benefits like long conversations in Eskimo language. A body can do some strange things when the occupant is unavailable. It's almost a totally different subject than sex.

    Ever seen someone in shock start making sexual motions? Is that attempted rape?

    It is hard to tell unless you were there. Waking up and avoiding a sleepwalker does not sound too difficult. Unless the female in question was naked on top of her sheets, it is difficult to imagine something like this, happening, except there is no victim statement so we do not even know what is claimed and have to make the assumptions. Sexual abuse can be a few miles short of sex.

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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    I'm certainly not going to conclude, and I have my own theories - thanks for the input everyone!

    Quote Posted by PurpleLama (here)
    That's one crime that, if caught, one would say literally anything to get out of the stigma, much less the punishment.
    Very very good point.

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Point being: this man's defense sounds dubious at best and inexcuseably pitiful at worst. But it's not out of the realm of possibility. I've seen and experienced these states firsthand. The confusion can go on for several minutes, which is just enough time for any sort of horrible thing to happen
    Thanks Mike. His wife is backing him up too, and in hindsight I have heard of this disorder before (a friend of mind admitted this happens with him and his gf), I just did not know it was a disorder at the time - I just thought some kind of weird fetish.

    The confusion look is frightening in this case, I've seen it too, nothing like the "wtf look". The wtf look it funny.... this is NOT funny

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    Just an excuse for perverts.
    There is no disorder that excuses sex with your own children.
    Not buying it.
    Would never happen to me I guarantee it. And if I did I would kill myself from the shame!
    I'll buy that it's a disorder, because of how weird sleepwalking is. People can cook food while sleepwalking, so why not sex. Just a few days ago someone was posting about "Sleep drawing" which I think is probably real, and that eerily resembles channeling (since they are in a trance and don't realize they're doing it)

    I'd end up killing myself too - that's part of why this is horrifying. I'll add to this too, let's say I wanted to have sex with my child, but didn't actually do it. I'd probably kill myself then too, just to put myself out of my misery.

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    A LOT of women sleep walk through sex!
    Hey look, it's an actual benefit of being a woman! Just playing. Sounds awesome to me... I'd rather have sleep than have sex (ha ha)

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Somnambulism is very weird and can provide silly benefits like long conversations in Eskimo language. A body can do some strange things when the occupant is unavailable. It's almost a totally different subject than sex.

    Ever seen someone in shock start making sexual motions?
    Sadly I have seen this, on television no less. A guy was mad about losing on a video game so he tried to stick a remote control up his butt. The commentator made a joke about him being possessed by a gay ghost
    Last edited by petra; 2nd August 2019 at 15:32.

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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    Sex while sleep walking either requires a simultaneously sleep walking person or one who is awake, aware, and willing to participate.

    Which one describes the daughter?
    Forget about it

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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    Sex while sleep walking either requires a simultaneously sleep walking person or one who is awake, aware, and willing to participate.

    Which one describes the daughter?
    I've tried to put myself in the child's shoes too, and every scenario is awful, even the one where she believes her father and forgives him - it's still awful!!!!

    Not sure why you'd think the awake party would have to be 'willing'. I mean, what if we substitute the child for a sheep? I should probably stop before I make myself sick.

    I'm also kind of skeptical about the two sleepwalkers having sex. Imagine if one gets pregnant, they might think it was a friggin' miracle

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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    The awake party must be willing because otherwise the yelling, kicking, and screaming would wake the perp.
    Forget about it

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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    I can hear it now, Bill Clinton didn't mean to do it, he was sleepwalking.
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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    Drugs or alcohol may have had something to do with it. Ambien is a drug, after all. And many obnoxious act are committed while someone is totally drunk, and they claim to have no memory of it. Almost like they were asleep. Maybe he passed out drunk in bed, then got up.

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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    Quote Posted by petra (here)
    If he's a liar and I end up believing the lies - that makes ME the guilty one now doesn't it.
    No, it doesn't. You're gaslighting yourself! Probably via something you picked up from someone else as a child. Someone told you that, in order for you to believe it. They told you that to remove guilt from themselves and pass it onto you, not because it was true but because it made you feel worse and thusly made them think they felt better. A classic bullying technique, "if I make the people around me feel worse then I'll be the best by association!" Let's tear that belief down now.

    Being successfully fooled by someone does not make you into the guilty one. It makes you another victim of his crime. Not as much of a victim as the daughter, but nonetheless you will have been violated by the devious actions of someone's ill intent. If you believe and propagate his lie, you hang onto it and refuse to admit you were deceived when the lies come out and maintain the lie to keep a perceived shred of honor rather than admit you were wrong, then sure, you're now victimizing further people with the ill intent.


    I'm perfectly sure that someone could do some sleep sex, however, assuming that the daughter was awake and conscious and not consenting, I also assume she could have managed to escape or evade. Certainly someone who's asleep isn't going to be personally insulted if you rebuff their advances. So, if she just let it happen that tells me it probably wasn't the first time something like this happened. Cooperation means she's been programmed to cooperate, and thus, I think he's making an excuse, there must be more to the story... I have sleep walked myself and I know it's possible to do things without any memory of what you were doing, so I assume it's possible. But sleep sex is a different thing from sleep rape. Also, like, what are you DREAMING about if that's what you do? Like, I sleep peed and sleep walked into the bulletin board and sleep opened the fridge, they were kind of pointless things to be trying to do while asleep but not criminal, just weak reflections of my usual lifestyle being mirrored in my sleeping state. Complex situation.

    Ultimately I feel like she could have probably woke him up, so I think he's trying to use it as an excuse to get out of a horrible crime.

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    Just an excuse for perverts.
    There is no disorder that excuses sex with your own children.
    Not buying it.
    Would never happen to me I guarantee it. And if I did I would kill myself from the shame!
    Speaking as a daughter with a relative up the family tree who was raped by her father, nah, it's still not worth killing yourself over. Yep, it's sick, perverted, disgusting, and I have enormous empathy for the family members who were affected by this long before I was born. I lived my entire life knowing the rapist as a member of my family and it was not until he passed that the information was revealed to me. Because I didn't know this person was a rapist, I was able to have a positive relationship with him and gain what positive knowledge I could. He was more than just this awful period in his life and I'm glad he didn't feel that way and off himself from the shame. I'm much happier to know that instead, he just stopped the raping young women in the family (I guess his victim got too old for his tastes or something, ugh, I don't know) and tried to be a better guy for the last few decades of his life.

    Child molesters are definitely up there on the evil-o-meter, and yet, anyone can rehabilitate, start doing good in the world around them, and do the best they can with what they have left. So to be honest I would prefer someone who did to live with the weight of it and use that pain to find some way to reach people who are still trapped in their darkness, instead of killing themselves. Due to their own demons they may be able to connect with people who are similarly awful and reach them where someone who's never been there might not. Just, y'know, ideally in an environment where they're NOWHERE NEAR anyone who they can victimize again.

    If this man's been released back to his family, I sure as hell hope his daughter gets a brand new shiny deadbolt for her door though.

    Quote Posted by PurpleLama (here)
    I can hear it now, Bill Clinton didn't mean to do it, he was sleepwalking.
    OMG lol.

    Wait, though, didn't he get head? The whole "I didn't have sex with that woman" thing? So was Monica sleepwalking? Was Bill also sleep walking? Did they just sleep run into each other and accidentally sleep through some, y'know... foreplay or whatever and then carry on down the hall oblivious? Madness. I lolled.
    Last edited by Tae; 5th August 2019 at 18:14.
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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    If "Sexsomnia" itself is made up in order to justify molestation, I'd be surprised. I think Sexsomnia is a real disorder, and the Judge must think so too, because the fellow got released.

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    The awake party must be willing because otherwise the yelling, kicking, and screaming would wake the perp.
    I imagine someone could be paralyzed in fear and not necessarily willing. Thought an awful lot of scenarios... and I've also considered the one where she thinks he is awake and doing it on purpose, but he is in reality unaware.

    Quote Posted by Tae (here)
    Quote Posted by petra (here)
    If he's a liar and I end up believing the lies - that makes ME the guilty one now doesn't it.
    No, it doesn't. You're gaslighting yourself! Probably via something you picked up from someone else as a child. Someone told you that, in order for you to believe it. They told you that to remove guilt from themselves and pass it onto you, not because it was true but because it made you feel worse and thusly made them think they felt better. A classic bullying technique, "if I make the people around me feel worse then I'll be the best by association!" Let's tear that belief down now.

    Being successfully fooled by someone does not make you into the guilty one. It makes you another victim of his crime.
    I can tell that I am gaslighting myself but that doesn't make the guilt feel any different, "guilty of being fooled" is the same as any other guilt to me. I'm "guilty by association" in a way. Of course, THEY would be guilty of something much much worse than being gullible...

    I do NOT feel like a victim if I end up believing a lie, I'm mostly just disappointed at the time which was wasted due to said lie.
    Quote Posted by Tae (here)
    Quote Posted by PurpleLama (here)
    I can hear it now, Bill Clinton didn't mean to do it, he was sleepwalking.
    OMG lol.

    Wait, though, didn't he get head? The whole "I didn't have sex with that woman" thing? So was Monica sleepwalking? Was Bill also sleep walking? Did they just sleep run into each other and accidentally sleep through some, y'know... foreplay or whatever and then carry on down the hall oblivious? Madness. I lolled.
    It's madness alright!! At least we won't get thrown in jail for giving head in our sleep though.

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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    I guess it depends on life experience then.

    I was abused as a 3-yr old child, almost killed - but that part is speculation. Because on the way to the rape zone I was luckily saved by three old women - they must have been angels because there was no reason for them not to have been surprised when the elevator doors opened. Instead they immediately grabbed me and pulled me out of the elevator...

    So when I hear of a perp explaining their latest excuse I am immediately sceptical. And when the excuse becomes part of the official list of psychological disorders, which itself has grown from a handful of recognized maladies to thousands, I know the fix is in.

    YOU CANNOT RAPE IN YOUR SLEEP!
    Forget about it

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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    With due respect, some of the comments on this thread are a bit tone deaf with regard to the subject of child rape. No child is ever a willing participant in sexual activity with an adult.

    Moving on...

    I have been sleepwalking since childhood. What I do know about sleepwalking is that it is a lot like being drunk, in the sense that it is sort of a "truth serum" in that your inhibitions are lowered. I myself am a Brie addict. Yes, the cheese. When I sleepwalk, I have been known to decimate a wheel of brie in one event. In Mike's case, maybe he did want to pee on his roommate and the doorknobs in the dorm. Maybe Mike had unresolved issues with them. In the case of the man who raped his daughter? My guess is that if he hadn't already raped her previously, in an awakened state he probably had desires, even if they were suppressed or unconscious desires.
    “The World is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.”
    Albert Einstein

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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    I sure hope Ernie is right, because it just doesn't get any grosser than that...

    This business about being on the 'official disorders list' has really thrown me off kilter, because court judges HAVE to consider it (even if it's a pile of bunk).

    AriG makes a lot of sense regarding unconscious desires too, and I tend to agree the state is similar to being drunk with lowered inhibitions. He probably had an unconscious desire, and acted on it.

    Either way - this is bringing an interesting question to the forefront.
    Q: Do I think people should be held responsible for things they do in their sleep?

    My answer to that is NO....

    *back down the rabbit hole I go...*
    Last edited by petra; 19th August 2019 at 18:54.

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    Default Re: Sexsomnia and you...

    What has made this topic so visceral for you concerns me. I hope all is well...
    Forget about it

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