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    Avalon Member Kalamos's Avatar
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    Default Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    I used to believe it. That those long, white, persistent clouds behind airplanes were chemicals being sprayed for nefarious purposes. It's like a staple belief most people acquire after reading/researching about it in the alternative community.

    Well, I just don't believe it anymore after reading/researching from the skeptic perspective.

    Im not one for debate, and I just want know if I'm alone on this one on this forum. I don't think anyone could change my mind about this, but I am willing to listen to your best evidence should anyone feel like posting any.

    So, does anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy? Did you used to believe it? What made you change your mind?

    I honestly don't think I'll get many if any respondents who doubt the CT Conspiracy.

    I do welcome any and all comments or debate on the subject here. I might try to defend the belief, or I'd say, fact that most of what people believe are chemtrails, are simply persistent contrails. But like I said, I'm not great at debating. Maybe I'll get some support here (but I seriously doubt it).

    Thanks
    Kalamos

    P.S. There are a number of websites listed below that critique or debunk the chemtrail conspiracy theories. See for example:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtra...spiracy_theory

    http://conspiracies.skepticproject.c...es/chemtrails/

    https://www.metabunk.org/forums/cont...-chemtrails.9/

    http://contrailscience.com/
    Last edited by Kalamos; 3rd August 2019 at 09:46.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Hi! I have started to somewhat doubt that it is, at the very least, nefarious. Whatever it is, it probably has some unintended negative side effects on life on the planet. I live fairly close to a major airport as well as a military base and my observation is that commercial airplanes do not have that long con/chem trail behind. Also, commercial airplanes do not fly in circles or fly straight up like a rocket.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    For me its mainly a feeling/intuiton that something isnt right in the sky. When i look up at the sky sometimes and i see the whole sky riddled with those trails (trails who spread out really wide and stay really long) and i live in an area withouth much air traffic it seems to me something is wrong. It seems to be put there for a reason. And then you have of course the statement from people who researched this about much more toxic substances found in the soil and insiders who speak about it.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    ...

    See these threads and posts:
    Why In The World Are They Spraying? A geoengineering explanation for chemtrails

    Dust Particles Influence On The Weather AND Earth's Climate

    Chemtrails don't exist
    For actual aerosol spraying, there is a prevailing logic that points to not waste the chemical investment onto the neighbors' fields... hence the low-flying crop dusting... same goes with nations... no one would want their investments drifting over to neighboring or allied nations from wrong wind estimations... right?


    © Global Look / Florian Kopp

    So, although persistent contrails are a wrong target, they did allow people to take their nose off the ground and led to get people to wonder where all these barium- aluminum deposits are coming from...

    So, again, yes, there is something wrong with our skies but it's not necessarily what is pointed at: persistent contrails are only a symptom of something else that's happening and which affects the weather (meteorology) and the global climate.
    Last edited by Hervé; 4th August 2019 at 16:52.
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Hi Kalamos..

    I think the "chem-trails" debate preys on the concerns that to varying extents many of us share..environmental pollution..the threat of biological warfare and terrorism, mistrust of government.
    It also shows our continuing susceptibility to irrational fears. I was reading in the Fortean Times that the alleged chemical spraying planes are flying too high to directly affect observers on the ground, as chem trails only form at the freezing temperatures found 5 to 10 miles up.
    Witnesses claim to become ill soon after seeing trail-leaving planes in the sky, but any sprayed chemical agents or substances would drift several hundred miles before reaching the ground, most likely degrading or evaporating before reaching their victims.
    "Angel hair" I find interesting too, which is rumoured to sometimes drift to earth after UFO sightings and thought to be linked to the crafts propulsion system, as well as being a physical manifestation of "chem-trails" .
    I think that it's more likely to be the silk "parachutes"used to travel long distances by mass-migrating baby spiders..

    People are more likely to be seduced by the fantastical rather than the prosaic and I am sure this only helps fuel the conspiracy theories that surround us..

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Spaceball Ricochet (here)
    Hi Kalamos..


    I think the "chem-trails" debate preys on the concerns that to varying extents many of us share..environmental pollution..the threat of biological warfare and terrorism, mistrust of government. It also shows our continuing susceptibility to irrational fears.
    Indeed. It may show our continuing susceptibility to our fears... but I wouldn't call them "irrational". If anything, I would characterize them as "rational" fears.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    Quote Posted by Spaceball Ricochet (here)
    Hi Kalamos..


    I think the "chem-trails" debate preys on the concerns that to varying extents many of us share..environmental pollution..the threat of biological warfare and terrorism, mistrust of government. It also shows our continuing susceptibility to irrational fears.
    Indeed. It may show our continuing susceptibility to our fears... but I wouldn't call them "irrational". If anything, I would characterize them as "rational" fears.
    yes T Smith
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Barium, rubidium, strontium

    The investigated elements are almost always detectable in appreciable amounts in straight and compound fertilizers originated from natural rocks and salt deposits;

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01053250

    Why is there so much aluminum in the soil?

    Aluminum is the most common mineral in the Earth's crust


    Aluminium (Al) is major constituent of most soils but is not required for plant growth
    Aluminium can only affect plants when it moves into a soluble or exchangeable form
    Soluble or exchangeable aluminium levels will increase as a consequence of increasing acidity (pHCa below 4.5), usually as a result of land management practices
    Plant species differ widely in their tolerance of exchangeable aluminium in soil


    http://www.ccmaknowledgebase.vic.gov..._Aluminium.htm

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    ...

    For actual aerosol spraying, there is a prevailing logic that points to not waste the chemical investment onto the neighbors' fields... hence the low-flying crop dusting... same goes with nations... no one would want their investments drifting over to neighboring or allied nations from wrong wind estimations... right?
    I have always assumed the directives of whoever or whatever is responsible for spraying (and not speaking to the other arguments debunking they exist) originate from well above the boundaries of nations, i.e., the chemtrail phenomenon is a planetary directive, either by the break-away civilization, the secret space program, or simply the burgeoning organization of the NWO.

    I often scratch my head when people use the chemtrail phenomenon to cite that nothing has changed within the US Government given the election of Donald Trump; be that as it may, as far as I understand it, geo-engineering is well above the pay-grade of elected officials of national governments.
    Last edited by T Smith; 4th August 2019 at 14:42.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    My own provisional thoughts and questions:
    • The multiply-witnessed and photographed checkerboard patterns, not made by commercial aircraft, seem very hard to explain unless the intention was to achieve a certain result. ('Covering a specific area' seems to be pretty much it.)
    • Soil analyses showing high proportions of heavy metals (and how that's spiked in recent years), reported by several researchers, do seem to be very concerning and urgently needing an explanation.
    But:
    • I've never seen a single chemtrail here in Ecuador, in all of 8 years. If this is a global scenario, why do only some countries or regions seem to be targeted?

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Kalamos (here)
    I used to believe it. That those long, white, persistent clouds behind airplanes were chemicals being sprayed for nefarious purposes. It's like a staple belief most people acquire after reading/researching about it in the alternative community.

    Well, I just don't believe it anymore after reading/researching from the skeptic perspective.

    Im not one for debate, and I just want know if I'm alone on this one on this forum. I don't think anyone could change my mind about this, but I am willing to listen to your best evidence should anyone feel like posting any.

    So, does anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy? Did you used to believe it? What made you change your mind?

    I honestly don't think I'll get many if any respondents who doubt the CT Conspiracy.

    I do welcome any and all comments or debate on the subject here. I might try to defend the belief, or I'd say, fact that most of what people believe are chemtrails, are simply persistent contrails. But like I said, I'm not great at debating. Maybe I'll get some support here (but I seriously doubt it).

    Thanks
    Kalamos

    P.S. There are a number of websites listed below that critique or debunk the chemtrail conspiracy theories. See for example:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtra...spiracy_theory

    http://conspiracies.skepticproject.c...es/chemtrails/

    https://www.metabunk.org/forums/cont...-chemtrails.9/

    http://contrailscience.com/
    This is certainly interesting. Each book the debunker cites claims contrails usually dissipate, but can persist, given the right conditions. This is the main argument he uses to debunk chemtrails. In other words, we have had the phenomena of chemtrails since the beginning of the era of aircraft travel.

    Some questions to ask (and assuming the books he cites are authentic and not reprinted with updated photos):

    To what degree of atmospheric outcomes do said conditions manifest themselves where ice crystals persist and form a sheet of cirrostratus? 1% of the time? 10% of the time? 50% of the time? Enough to make the skies look like this?

    My guess is elements heavier than water vapor will dissipate much slower than ice crystals and will tend to form cirrostratus clouds with much more persistence.

    In short, I'm not entirely convinced these arguments debunk chemtrails; someone with a better background in atmospheric chemistry might have some better answers.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    "Angel Hair"


    Chaff are very narrow fibers, coated with aluminum and used since the 40s. They're used to confuse radar.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    My own provisional thoughts and questions:
    • The multiply-witnessed and photographed checkerboard patterns, not made by commercial aircraft, seem very hard to explain unless the intention was to achieve a certain result. ('Covering a specific area' seems to be pretty much it.)
    • Soil analyses showing high proportions of heavy metals (and how that's spiked in recent years), reported by several researchers, do seem to be very concerning and urgently needing an explanation.
    But:
    • I've never seen a single chemtrail here in Ecuador, in all of 8 years. If this is a global scenario, why do only some countries or regions seem to be targeted?
    It would be easier to figure some of this out if we knew if the spraying was being done for a good outcome, or a bad outcome. Although there are obvious bad things (metals harming people and plants) but I do not believe that we really know enough to say that the spraying is for the greater good or bad.

    What if the purpose is to shield the earth from something coming form the sun or the galaxy that we do not yet know of or understand?

    If we knew for a fact "who" was behind the spraying, then we could begin to ask the questions to lead us to know "why".

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    My own provisional thoughts and questions:
    • The multiply-witnessed and photographed checkerboard patterns, not made by commercial aircraft, seem very hard to explain unless the intention was to achieve a certain result. ('Covering a specific area' seems to be pretty much it.)
    • Soil analyses showing high proportions of heavy metals (and how that's spiked in recent years), reported by several researchers, do seem to be very concerning and urgently needing an explanation.
    But:
    • I've never seen a single chemtrail here in Ecuador, in all of 8 years. If this is a global scenario, why do only some countries or regions seem to be targeted?
    Some of the checkerboards are simple artefacts of flight patterns. In very heavily travelled skies, where planes are flying in different directions it's not surprising that grid type patterns occur. And the skies have seen remarkably increased traffic. I'm more concerned about the pollution they generate.

    "The aviation industry has seen dramatic growth over the past 20 years, with passenger numbers rising from 1.467 billion in 1998 to 3.979 billion in 2017."


    https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisag.../#3f3414f2150f

    In North America, other than the Denver Colorado airport, no new major airports have been built, to my knowledge. Imagine the potential for pattern generation around these mega airport hubs.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    [...]
    My guess is elements heavier than water vapor will dissipate much slower than ice crystals and will tend to form cirrostratus clouds with much more persistence.
    [...]
    No need for a guess, check this thread: Dust Particles Influence On The Weather AND Earth's Climate

    While at it, to readers, why not check the other links provided in my post # 4... Plenty of data there to correlate but, yes, one would need to at least read the posts...

    As for the crisscross grid, planes use corridors usually N-S and E-W at regular flight interval and when the weather front is propitious, each flight leaves a persistent trail subparallel to the previous one due to high altitude winds and the drifting of the trail left by the previous flight. Never mind that planes are sometimes in a holding pattern waiting to be given the green light to land.
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    My own provisional thoughts and questions:
    • The multiply-witnessed and photographed checkerboard patterns, not made by commercial aircraft, seem very hard to explain unless the intention was to achieve a certain result. ('Covering a specific area' seems to be pretty much it.)
    • Soil analyses showing high proportions of heavy metals (and how that's spiked in recent years), reported by several researchers, do seem to be very concerning and urgently needing an explanation.
    But:
    • I've never seen a single chemtrail here in Ecuador, in all of 8 years. If this is a global scenario, why do only some countries or regions seem to be targeted?

    Same here in rural New Zealand, I have never seen one.

    Any aircraft that fly overhead seem to leave a regular contrail which dissipates quickly. I'm originally from the UK so have seem many chemtrails over there.

    This isn't something I've spent any time on so I don't have any particular opinion, just wanted to point out that I don't observe them here in NZ.
    Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    THE spaying is a fact that is happening. I have shown others I know with my binos.

    The Crafts that sprayed the most had red at the top of the tail fin. No windows, white in color.

    It troubled them.
    So my question is, What is the purpose of the spraying? The Spraying cannot be for no reason.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Thanks for all the replies. I think we have here enough info, links, and opinions to get anyone with an open mind thinking about Chemtrails and Contrails either way.

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    Avalon Member Kalamos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Check the satellite images on this link. That would be A LOT of Chemtrails!

    Contrail Grids are not Chemtrail Grids

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    Bhutan Avalon Member enigma3's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Lithium is another ingredient.
    1. The powers that be have never agreed to publicize the ingredients list, ala fracking. Any alarm sounding here?
    2. We know some ingredients. Aerosolized aluminum, lithium, barium, rubidium and strontium. Anything there sound beneficial to the human body? To the soil?
    3. The main stated purpose is to reflect sunlight back into space. Yet, as stated, this is not a world wide phenomenon. Rather localized. Hmmm.
    4. The propaganda machine is vast and sophisticated. Very persuasive. Especially when you are hearing essentially the same story from so many different outlets.

    I weigh in with George Carlin here when he said don't believe a gosh darned thing the government tells you. Then I remember a quote in NASA Dark Mission made by Pres. Reagan's science advisor who said - "Most government agencies lie some of the time. NASA lies all the time".That was in Reagan's time. Times have changed greatly since then. Ruthless rules at the top.

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