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Thread: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

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    United States Avalon Member Ayt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    What's the flight level they are circling at compared to the flight level contrail start persisting? Because circling planes are in a holding pattern awaiting landing... not at a high, cruising altitude/level.
    I have witnessed planes looking like a normal dot-in-the-sky plane, with no trail at all, when suddenly the thick huge jets appear like they were "turned on" instantly.
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    I had a bunch of links I have found that I saved in my records when I was checking into chemtrails in the past, that perhaps the scientific minds here might examine deeper and explain.
    Many "seem" to be evidence of "something" to me, but I am just a layman. I rather have a talent, I think, at detective type at digging of research.

    Hoping some of you might check these out. (not sure if they are all still active, but the first few I checked are there)

    Albedo Enhancement by Stratospheric Sulfur Injections
    http://link.springer.com/article/10....9101-y?LI=true

    http://www.geoengineering.ox.ac.uk/g...o+Modification

    http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/civil-and..._sw_paper3.pdf

    https://www.see.ed.ac.uk/~shs/Climat...Nag_CD2011.pdf

    http://www.just-clouds.com/seeding_e...t_aircraft.asp

    costs
    http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/7/3/034019/article

    california
    http://www.westernsunsystems.comorww...0-2007-008.PDF

    Pierce J R, Weisenstein D K, Heckendorn P, Peter T and Keith D W 2010
    Efficient formation of stratospheric aerosol for climate engineering by emission of condensable vapor from aircraft
    Geophys. Res. Lett. 37 L18805

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...C8F5445.f02t02

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_r...y_modification

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratos...e_side_effects
    Last edited by Hervé; 4th August 2019 at 20:50. Reason: embedded link to article
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Ayt (here)
    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    What's the flight level they are circling at compared to the flight level contrail start persisting? Because circling planes are in a holding pattern awaiting landing... not at a high, cruising altitude/level.
    I have witnessed planes looking like a normal dot-in-the-sky plane, with no trail at all, when suddenly the thick huge jets appear like they were "turned on" instantly.
    One needs to really understand something here: I do not dismiss the observations.

    However, these observations do not prove anything! Zilch! Zero! They are not backed by anything. SSup did not back the observation by the flight levels of the planes being observed that could have been verified by some flight24 radar data for the time and day of the observations. So that the post is just a drive-by shouted opinion with no evidence.

    Same with the sudden turning on/off of trails: no evidence backing it up... someone one knows who was on the plane and open the faucets? Or one knows the drone pilot who remotely opened the sprinklers? Or the actual evidence there was adjacent air masses with different temperatures and humidex that could have been verified on a local weather/meteorology station or satellite IR data, etc... without either, and it's another drive-by shouted opinion with no weight in the debate.

    Same with that same argument - over and over- of fuel additives, etc.: can someone get a damn sample of these jet fuels, get it analyzed with results that can be trusted and put the matter to rest? Or else all the commercial flights are cutting costs and going for cheap fuels containing higher sulfur content than regulations allow?
    Last edited by Hervé; 5th August 2019 at 11:48. Reason: added embedded link
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Ayt (here)
    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    What's the flight level they are circling at compared to the flight level contrail start persisting? Because circling planes are in a holding pattern awaiting landing... not at a high, cruising altitude/level.
    I have witnessed planes looking like a normal dot-in-the-sky plane, with no trail at all, when suddenly the thick huge jets appear like they were "turned on" instantly.
    This page might address what you're talking about:

    Broken Contrails and Contrails with Gaps

    snip:
    Quote The amount of water in the exhaust is pretty constant, but the amount of moisture in the air is not. The humidity varies with altitude, and a layer of low humidity can be sandwiched between two layers of high humidity. As a plane climbs or descends through this layer, then the trail will only form in the areas of high humidity, and so look like it was “switched off” in the area of low humidity.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    I know Herve...
    I often ask myself just what does "real evidence" consist of?
    Scientific institutions? Anecdotal? Media announcements? Politicians spouting info? Hearsay? Books? Seeing with one's own eyes?
    Ha! ALL of these can be (and often are) illusions.

    But I do find it FUN to zoom in sometimes to the created reality that I observe, and to jump into the fray of possible answers. Generally I prefer to view things as "non-doomy" as I tend to be an optimist.
    I enjoy reading the shared opinions and interpretations, although I don't profess to "know" the truth in many subjects, along with this particular one.
    That's the beauty of the minds here on Avalon, as I see it.
    "We're all bozos on this bus"

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Ayt (here)
    Quote Posted by Whisper (here)
    Sorry, but it is not a conspiracy, even if you wish it would be just one...like most people do.

    I dont really understand how people forget so quickly how our skies use to look like while there was only normal airline traffic going on. There been no trails hunging in the air for hours..what so ever. Cant you remember this? I always liked it as a child already to watch the sky and I see the diffrent clear.
    (
    This could give us some clues right there.
    I am fairly clear on the first time I actually witnessed these trails. It was shortly after 9/11. Never did I see them in my youth.
    When did everyone else here first observe them? What changed at that time?
    I remember seeing contrails in my youth. Im 41 years old. In central Florida all my life.

    Contrail photos through history

    Lots of old pictures with persistent contrails.
    Last edited by Kalamos; 4th August 2019 at 21:54.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Kalamos (here)
    Quote Posted by Ayt (here)
    Quote Posted by Whisper (here)
    Sorry, but it is not a conspiracy, even if you wish it would be just one...like most people do.

    I dont really understand how people forget so quickly how our skies use to look like while there was only normal airline traffic going on. There been no trails hunging in the air for hours..what so ever. Cant you remember this? I always liked it as a child already to watch the sky and I see the diffrent clear.
    (
    This could give us some clues right there.
    I am fairly clear on the first time I actually witnessed these trails. It was shortly after 9/11. Never did I see them in my youth.
    When did everyone else here first observe them? What changed at that time?
    I remember seeing contrails in my youth. Im 41 years old. In central Florida all my life.

    Contrail photos through history

    Lots of old pictures with persistent contrails.

    The huge difference with modern day is twofold. Today when you look at a random day the sky is riddled with con/chemtrails. And number two, the days there are con/chemtrails are way more often then it used to be.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Quote Posted by Sunny-side-up (here)
    [...]
    The circling planes do not leave and or form one big chem circle, they virtually never leave trails?
    [...]
    What's the flight level they are circling at compared to the flight level contrail start persisting? Because circling planes are in a holding pattern awaiting landing... not at a high, cruising altitude/level.
    True Hervé.

    Next observation then:

    2 airliners flying hi alt virtually side by side, one trailing the other clear ?
    That can only be due to 2 things:
    1) Different fuels.
    2) One is equipped to Chem-Trail?

    Either way, one thing is for sure, we are causing a great deal of pollution overhead.
    Last edited by Sunny-side-up; 5th August 2019 at 09:08.
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    [...] can someone get a damn sample of these jet fuels, get it analyzed with results that can be trusted and put the matter to rest? [...]
    Exactly! This gets to the heart of the matter in my opinion. Literally millions of litres of this stuff is supposedly being manufactured and transported around the planet, yet - and correct me if I'm wrong - no one has managed to smuggle out a single drop for independent analysis. Seems it's as rare as Bigfoot droppings, yet apparently it's being sprayed all over us!

    Airports are secure locations, but none of them have the security of Area 51. Neither are the chemtrail delivery trucks in an armoured convoy. So come on - someone get some and put the matter to bed!

    Bahhh...
    Last edited by Nick Matkin; 5th August 2019 at 09:32.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Sunny-side-up (here)
    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Quote Posted by Sunny-side-up (here)
    [...]
    The circling planes do not leave and or form one big chem circle, they virtually never leave trails?
    [...]
    What's the flight level they are circling at compared to the flight level contrail start persisting? Because circling planes are in a holding pattern awaiting landing... not at a high, cruising altitude/level.
    True Hervé.

    Next observation then:

    2 airliners flying hi alt virtually side by side, one trailing the other clear ?
    That can only be due to 2 things:
    1) Different fuels.
    2) One is equipped to Chem-Trail?


    Either way, one thing is for sure, we are causing a great deal of pollution overhead.

    A 3rd option........... Different engines.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Sunny-side-up (here)
    [...]
    Next observation then:

    2 airliners flying hi alt virtually side by side, one trailing the other clear ?
    [...]
    If they are commercial airliners, they cannot be "side-by-side" but flying at different flight levels (altitude) to avoid air collision and therefore they may be flying in two different atmospheric layers with different atmospheric properties. So, that makes it another unusable, insufficiently documented and analyzed observation and accompanying drive-by shouted opinion.


    In short, too many unknown variables in the proposition.
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Some of the pages from the book: Dangerous Imagination, Silent Assimilation by Cara St Louis and Harald Kautz-Vella:









    ..

    Wondering if 5G would have anything to do with the activation of BaSrTiO3 nanocrystals in our bodies?

    ..

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Sunny-side-up (here)
    [...]
    Either way, one thing is for sure, we are causing a great deal of pollution overhead.
    Another one which needs to be documented:
    • is it pollution?
    • is it "we"?
    • is it jet engines running into propitious meteorology?
    • is it volcanic/cometary dust that jet engines are running into and disturbing an atmospheric layer in a state of unstable equilibrium?
    • is it a combination of the above?
    • other(s)
    To wit:
    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    ... Or else all the commercial flights are cutting costs and going for cheap fuels containing higher sulfur content than regulations allow?
    This is where confirmation bias needs to be fought so as to maintain a discipline of not stopping one's digging at the first fool's gold nugget on one's way down to the bottom of the matter.

    Then, again, why, given the same plane with the same engines on the same flight number and flight level in the same corridor, refueled with the same fuel truck as yesterday would only leave a short contrail yesterday and a persistent trail today, just before rainy days show up?

    One thing for sure is that, that NASA satellite picture of maritime sulfur pollution didn't get wasted by the proponents of "Climate Change" who seized that opportunity to make propositions based on it to accelerate the coming new ice age... tankers and merchant ships are the biggest polluters on the planet.

    There are a lot of fields to learn about and dig into in order to get a coherent picture of the phenomenon and increase the signal/noise ratio.
    Last edited by Hervé; 5th August 2019 at 14:24.
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Rogue A.I. (Alexa) Tells Truth About Chemtrails



    Climate GeoEngineering Chemtrails Documentary 'OVERCAST'



    Legislation to Ban Chemtrails gets Huge Public Support [Public Hearing in Long Island]
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    Exclamation Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Secret Weather Wars - New Chemtrails Documentary - English Subtitles



    Documents Reveal "Chemtrails" Originated at Department of Defense:
    https://www.veteranstodayarchives.co...nt-of-defense/


    You can Subscribe my YouTube Channel: ChemTruthers
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Not me. I feel something is not right. A small clip from a council meeting in Shasta County CA. Other sane seeming people who must be crazy or stupid... N

    Last edited by Nasu; 5th August 2019 at 19:40.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Nick Matkin (here)
    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    [...] can someone get a damn sample of these jet fuels, get it analyzed with results that can be trusted and put the matter to rest? [...]
    Exactly! This gets to the heart of the matter in my opinion. Literally millions of litres of this stuff is supposedly being manufactured and transported around the planet, yet - and correct me if I'm wrong - no one has managed to smuggle out a single drop for independent analysis. Seems it's as rare as Bigfoot droppings, yet apparently it's being sprayed all over us!

    Airports are secure locations, but none of them have the security of Area 51. Neither are the chemtrail delivery trucks in an armoured convoy. So come on - someone get some and put the matter to bed!

    Bahhh...
    We woke up one morning to discover the top to our jeep wrangle (which we took off for the summer) covered with "something". On further inspection, this substance was also all over the roof of our cabin, and on the grass in the yard. The black jeep roof was what glaringly caught our eye. Always wondered if this stuff could have come from chemtrails? Or something else out of the sky?

    Took several pics. Close inspection of the grass showed it had mostly seeped into the ground, but many dried spots were still on the grass. I scraped a sample and put it in a jar, but never did anything with it. It became a powdery white substance in the jar, and it hung around our place for a few years until we moved and I threw it out.
    Here's one pic of many that I took:
    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by Ayt; 8th August 2019 at 07:03.
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Nasu (here)
    Not me. I feel something is not right. A small clip from a council meeting in Shasta County CA. Other sane seeming people who must be crazy or stupid... N

    That video was published almost 5 years ago. It's too bad there's no smoking gun proof of chemtrails. I'm still not a believer.

    Edit to add:

    A comment exchange on that video. I think the respondent, Yassassin, kinda hit the nail on the head.

    Dolphin Dream
    1 year ago
    Does anyone know whether ANY action, or even reaction, has occurred by California officials?? (Or those in any other states?) It's now three years later & it's still happening, more than ever actually, and I haven't heard a word about any resistance or moves to ban it. Being California, it figures.

    Yassassin
    1 year ago
    This was an inconsequential hearing arranged by and indulging the fantasies of Dane Wigington and his cohorts. Chemtrails are a baseless conspiracy theory perpetrated in the 1990s by Art Bell on Coast to Coast AM a sensationalist commercial radio station to generate higher ratings and thereby increase advertising revenue. Conspiracy is big business, and since then, following the advent of the internet it has burgeoned and become simply an obligatory part of the product line of manufactured lucrative conspiracy theory. Wigington amongst others have conflated this with geoengineering in a bid to gain credence and validity.

    This is still happening as you say because aircraft burning a hydrocarbon fuel at altitude produce heated vapour which freezes and if the temperatures are sufficiently low and the environment is saturated in respect of ice, then a persistent contrail will form and even spread. No conspiracy, no spraying - simply contrails.
    Last edited by Kalamos; 6th August 2019 at 01:46.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    I am not totally surprised that this is being discussed. If you are old enough to recall a real blue sky, then you most likely also have the wisdom to see how the sky and clouds are different now.

    When is a contrail a chemtrail? When you see it linger in the sky and spread outward and it looks like an oil slick in the sky.

    If you have not seen that, then you have not been.lookkng enough. It turned my stomache when I saw it.

    To ignore this is to turn your back on the earth itself.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Patient (here)
    I am not totally surprised that this is being discussed. If you are old enough to recall a real blue sky, then you most likely also have the wisdom to see how the sky and clouds are different now.

    When is a contrail a chemtrail? When you see it linger in the sky and spread outward and it looks like an oil slick in the sky. [Patient I think you're thinking of cirrus clouds]

    If you have not seen that, then you have not been.lookkng enough. It turned my stomache when I saw it.

    To ignore this is to turn your back on the earth itself.
    A tid bit taken from a blogger who wrote about the Chemtrail Conspiracy

    Why I Write About (and Debunk) the Chemtrail Conspiracy Theory

    Quote More today than ever before!
    THEORY: The sky has more contrails in it today than ever before!

    FACT: That's true. As more airlines take flight and more flights take off, there will be more opportunities for contrails to form. There are definitely more flights today than there were in, say, 1972, so the opportunity for aircraft to produce contrails is much higher now than it was a few decades ago.

    They're NEW!
    THEORY: Contrails didn't exist when I was a kid. This is a new phenomenon!

    FACT: Unless you're 100 years old, you were just an unobservant little kid. Contrails were there, just not as many as there are now. It's a simple case of not noticing something until you're suddenly aware of it. Case in point: you didn't think about how much you blink until I wrote this sentence. Now try not to think about it.

    They fill the sky!
    THEORY: Contrails can take a blue sky and fill it with a thin deck of upper-level cirrus by the evening.

    FACT: That can be true in certain circumstances, too. One of the big arguments of chemtrail theorists is that there never used to be "persistent" contrails like there are today. On days with high upper-level humidity, condensation trails can stick around for quite a while, and depending on the winds, they can spread out into a deck of cirrus. That's always been the case. It's nothing new.

  40. The Following User Says Thank You to Kalamos For This Post:

    Hervé (6th August 2019)

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