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Thread: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Kalamos (here)
    Yassassin
    1 year ago
    This was an inconsequential hearing arranged by and indulging the fantasies of Dane Wigington and his cohorts. Chemtrails are a baseless conspiracy theory perpetrated in the 1990s by Art Bell on Coast to Coast AM a sensationalist commercial radio station to generate higher ratings and thereby increase advertising revenue. Conspiracy is big business, and since then, following the advent of the internet it has burgeoned and become simply an obligatory part of the product line of manufactured lucrative conspiracy theory. Wigington amongst others have conflated this with geoengineering in a bid to gain credence and validity.

    This is still happening as you say because aircraft burning a hydrocarbon fuel at altitude produce heated vapour which freezes and if the temperatures are sufficiently low and the environment is saturated in respect of ice, then a persistent contrail will form and even spread. No conspiracy, no spraying - simply contrails.
    Yup. Another nail hit squarely on the head.

    Conspiracy is big business. Facilitated by the internet, combined with a general suspicion of authority, mixed with a massive amount of the population unable to carry out even basic critical thinking, along with not being able to distinguish between opinion and evidence leads to this nonsense. All harmless enough when these folks invent stories about chemtrails, Apollo faking, flat earth, Finland not existing (yes, really - so I was hallucinating when I went there on a business trip!).

    Unfortunately things become seriously unravelled when it comes to health issues and politics, leading to outbreaks of measles and our UK Brexit disaster.

    No doubt conspiracy spreading will continue. Attempts to counter it will be met with howls about free speech, and "we're getting to the truth and they're trying to silence us!" This isn't going to end well...

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    It is clear that what matters the most over our belief or disbelief in chemtrails (as in all things) is our own personal outcome because of that belief. Not whether I agree or disagree with this or that or the other theory. Not if I stand unswayed by others and their persuasive arguments. If I cannot trust what I see and feel and my own intuition then I am subject to my mind and its beliefs and disbeliefs and I will be looking all over the internet for answers. I may look up at the sky sometimes. Just because it is my mind I may be swayed this way and that way and my belief may change like the wind changing direction.

    If I trust in myself and am open to my gut feelings and sensitivities I will be looking for the truth in a different way. Things will resonate with me if they are true. I will possibly get a chill running through me when the truth is revealed. I will not be confused by an argument against what I know intuitively. I may remember if I am old enough what a blue sky used to look like. If not I may look at the rippling and the haarp effect where clouds should be. If I had one I would shine a small laser up at the sky at night and watch the huge number of particulates falling and close my mouth so I breathe less in. I may get a hand lens with 30x and 60x magnification and look at the plants in my garden. I may not want to eat the plants after noticing the odd fibres and nano dots and obvious pieces of metallic substance all over them. I would take a sample of rain and look closely at it and no longer want to water my plants with fresh rain water. I would likely take a handful of snow and no longer wonder where the green and red fibres come from and not allow my children to play in it. My shopping would transform as the reality that all things grown outside are subject to what falls from the sky. That includes water.

    Closer and more personal I may be examining the bath water residue and in looking see the same coming from my skin and the skin of my children. I would be looking for ways to reduce the heavy metal load on myself and my family and also find ways to resolve the number of fibres and quantom dots in them. I would also look at the wider implications for the environment and start to grow things undercover and look for ways to mitigate the pollution of the soil. My concern for nature would grow and be included in the solution finding.

    My internet investigations would be looking for and applying solutions. Tony Pantelleresco, byebye blue sky, geoengineering watch and many more.

    Or I could endlessly still be trying to prove that chemtrails are not real.

    Trisher

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    We might start to see even more chemtrails, I mean persistent contrails, in the future, as more and more planes will be flying higher and higher. There were several articles published lately about how contrails contribute to warming the earth.


    snip: (bold italics and underlining mine)
    Quote Despite conspiracy theories about so-called chemtrails, there’s no evidence that the white plumes seen trailing from high-flying airplanes are part of a secret government program to spray toxic chemicals into the atmosphere for mass sterilization or mind control.

    But contrails do pose a threat. Scientists say they contribute to climate change by trapping heat that radiates upward from Earth’s surface. A new study published in the journal Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics suggests that the global warming effect will triple by 2050 as air travel grows in popularity and new technology enables planes to reach the higher cruising altitudes where contrails tend to form.
    ^from this article

    Related Articles:
    Airplane contrails are changing the climate

    ‘The largest aviation impact on the climate’: Airplane contrails add to climate change and it’s getting worse

    Airplane Contrails May Be Potent For Worsening Climate
    Last edited by Kalamos; 6th August 2019 at 09:10. Reason: extended underline

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote The Crimson Horse Blanket

    A 3rd option........... Different engines.
    Solution then:
    Get those engines changed (impossible i know)



    Quote Hervé

    If they are commercial airliners, they cannot be "side-by-side" but flying at different flight levels (altitude) to avoid air collision and therefore they may be flying in two different atmospheric layers with different atmospheric properties. So, that makes it another unusable, insufficiently documented and analyzed observation and accompanying drive-by shouted opinion.


    In short, too many unknown variables in the proposition.
    I didn't mean literally wing tip to wing tip
    Flying off set one behind the other, which dose happen a lot.

    And yes 'In short, too many unknown variables in the proposition.'

    BTW I'm not being abrasive, not arguing, just won't to get to the bottom of this situation, condition, and if planed (possible many different objectives form different concerns) who and why?

    Will carry on watching the other posted vids soon.
    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
    We need LEADERS who bat from the HEART!
    Rise up above them Dark evil doers, not within anger but with LOVE

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    I know what cirrus clouds are.

    I am not referring only to the shape, but how the light was affected by it.

    I really don't care to argue this with you. It doesn't matter because it won't change anything.

    They have been spraying your whole life, so nothing has changed for you.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Patient (here)
    I know what cirrus clouds are.

    I am not referring only to the shape, but how the light was affected by it.

    I really don't care to argue this with you. It doesn't matter because it won't change anything.

    They have been spraying your whole life, so nothing has changed for you.
    I thought chemtrail believers say this spraying is relatively new? When did it start? In the nineties?

    I'll try and answer this one.

    Quote Chemtrail conspiracy theories began to circulate after the United States Air Force (USAF) published a 1996 report about weather modification.[10] Following the report, in the late 1990s the USAF was accused of "spraying the U.S. population with mysterious substances" from aircraft "generating unusual contrail patterns."[6][12] The theories were posted on Internet forums by people including Richard Finke and William Thomas, and were among many conspiracy theories popularized by late-night radio host Art Bell, starting in 1999.[13][8] As the chemtrail conspiracy theory spread, federal officials were flooded with angry calls and letters.[10][3]
    From wikipedia's Chemtrail Conspiracy Theory entry
    Last edited by Kalamos; 6th August 2019 at 11:33.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Kalamos (here)

    From wikipedia's Chemtrail Conspiracy Theory entry
    That Wikipedia article is obviously funded by TPTB to discredit the conspiracy. (Sarcasm)

    And it does it rather well! (Not sarcasm)

    I wish the chemtrail pundits could at least agree on its purpose. So help us out here; picked from the Wikipedia article, which ones are true? Have any been omitted?
    • solar radiation management
    • weather modification
    • psychological manipulation
    • human population control
    • biological warfare
    • chemical warfare
    • manipulating futures prices
    • making people sick to benefit drug companies
    • using weather as a weapon
    • testing bioweapons
    • electrically conductive materials as part of a massive electromagnetic superweapons program based around the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP)

    I'm assuming those who believe Wikipedia is CIA funded and therefore full of toxic BS, the true reason for chemtrailing won't be included there. So please expose the real reason.

    Take your time and answer in full...

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Australia is probably one of the most convenient places to prove the existence of chemtrails, however, after being aware of the “phenomenon” for around 20 years, my personal conclusion is that people have been programmed not to see them. And, I mean literally, - programmed. How the programming has been conducted, I would not be sure, however, it seems to me that it could have a lot to do with the ‘mechanics’ presented in the Project Camelot Interview with James Mahu?!

    I did some experiments long ago, trying to draw attention of certain people to the phenomenon in a pretty gentle way and what was happening, the people were starting to behave ‘erratically’. First, they would usually provide to me some ridiculous explanation and it would be so ridiculous that even they, somehow, would sense it, and then, they would proceed to change the topic immediately. If I would point to some inconsistencies in their explanations, they would get annoyed, nervous and even aggressive.

    Here, in the eastern part of Australia, the most of the air traffic goes South-North-South. I live at a place somewhere half way between Sydney and Brisbane, inland. No one of the major routes (Adelaide/Melbourne/Canberra/Sydney to Brisbane and backwards) goes normally above the town where I live, as a shortest route. So, there are periods when we do not see any chemtrails, at all, however, when our area is scheduled for spraying, we will see them, going usually South-North-South, all the time. There were instances when a series of X’s or grids were set above the town with many trails going from the West towards East, where there was no a major town with an airport (the Central East Coast) where those planes could land, while the only major town on the western side would be Perth, 4000 km away, where the planes could come from or go to. And, again, even then, nobody noticing anything unusual?! Though, maybe, a few people with malfunctioning programming did?!

    As each flight is registered on the live flight tracker flightradar24, one can easily check each plane the one could see above his head.

    So, when I am having a coffee on my veranda and I see above my head something like this:



    …and then, check the flight on the flightradar24, the route of the plane would look a bit ‘strange’, like this:



    Of course, these are non-stop flights and no reason for such “elbow-routes”. From the book I quoted in my previous post, one can see that the special additives in the fuel, through the process of spray-pyrolysis in the jet engines, may produce nano-crystals like Barium-Strontium-Titanate, Morgellons components etc. which in our bodies may do different ‘jobs’.

    This quote is from the same source:

    Quote “(Ba, Sr) TiO3 nano-crystals absorb UV light with wavelength shorter than 250nm, taking away 90% of the light passing the crystal. The absorption of signals shorther than 260nm is likely to eliminate the mono-directional signals responsible for cell division.

    The up-conversion of absorbed photons would take two or three photons of a defined frequency and convert it to one of a higher frequency, resulting in disruption of cell communication and maybe cause cell damage due to the higher energy of the single resulting photon.

    The refraction would geometrically disorder bidirectional biophoton waves, before being established.

    The disorder induced regarding the non-linear qualities of second and third order could possibly alter the entire blueprint of nature causing pseudo-genetic deformations”. (page: 283)
    So, normal passenger planes are usually used for chemtrail dispersion. (Of course, I remember the plane contrails from more than 20 years ago and they were quite different from what we are seeing during the last 20 years.)

    Also, if it happens that I would drink the coffee with a friend or a neighbour, and if I would point to him the strange activities above our heads, and then show to him the routes of the planes on the laptop, he would first rationalise that the normal route was probably changed due to a bad weather, somewhere along the way. A quick check of the weather map would follow, and of course, it would show nothing wrong with the weather in the area. And, that would be the point were the discussion would stop and the topic changed. Or, we my agree that the airplane companies are wasting a lot of fuel for some unknown reason.

    Hmm… the famous investigator of paranormal phenomena, John Alva Keel, wrote in his last book The Cosmic Question of the Eighth Tower, 40 years ago, the following:

    Quote You and I are biochemical robots controlled by the powerful radiations being broadcast from the Eighth Tower [supercomputer]. Our brains are programmed like computers, and many of us are suddenly and completely reprogrammed at some point in our adult life.
    (…)
    We are biochemical robots helplessly controlled by forces that can scramble our brains, destroy our memories and use us in any way they see fit. They have been doing it to us forever.
    (…)
    All of our beads are wired to a central switchboard [supercomputer]. That switchboard is the only God and the only reality. Illusions and delusions are piped down from it to further confound our perception of reality.”
    Logically, most of the bio-chemical robots reading the book, would not register these statements, or if they do, they would automatically distort it, reject it, ignore, deny, forget… as those statements would go against their programming. Which bio-chemical robot, as a programmed entity, would willingly acknowledge and contemplate something like that?! Perhaps, only some of those with malfunctioning programming?! I mean, what if John was right?! What would be the point in convincing an ordinary bio-chemical robot into something, by a malfunctioning bio-chemical robot?

    I have a friend in Europe whose wife is a flight controller. Believe or not, she would never discuss anything about the issue with him!? She would not deny it, she would not confirm it. Just, no discussion, although, he tried many times, as he is aware of the ‘phenomenon’. I do not know if it was due to programming or being threatened by somebody or, a bit of both?!

    Furthermore, when this phenomenon is in question, one may remind himself of what one of the most sincere UFO investigators, Barbara Bartholic, used to say in terms that “the same force was moving black and white pieces across the chess-board, so that the outcome of the game could always be under its control”. (How this was possible, one can find out by a contemplation of the above and below linked articles.)

    Therefore, most of those pointing to the chemtrail issue as something real, as “white pieces on the chess-board, being aware and wanting to spread the truth”, will be doing it with a spin, in a controlled way and nothing would change.

    At the end, everything comes to the level of an individual, in terms of, how much he/she would be able to discern the Truth in this Hologram of Deception (where the deception could be that huge, as beyond our ability to even imagine it) and to act upon it.

    ..

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Here is the lowdown. I have carefully watched thousands of very high flying jets laying down chemtrails, as well as commercial jets that fly by and leave an inch trail which quickly dissipates. Chemtrails are very long and long lasting, have nipples on them where they exit the nozzle under the wing and fluff out hugely on their way down to earth and to blank out the blue of the sky and the sun. They appear to be employed for a number of purposes, including to block our view of the heavens where other planets or craft may be going by, to poison all on earth, to distribute disease, and possibly to protect us from a SUN that may be about to SCORCH us to death on the way to blinding us as well.

    That space object seen pumping something out of the sun was in my opinion pumping something INTO THE SUN. I have been watching the sun for 79 years and I won't brook any nonsense with those who say otherwise.

    The chemtrail planes are coming from Military Bases. The one in Utah had vast tanks of chemical material which could be seen on Google Earth. In Northern Florida they are coming from the direction of the Western Panhandle of the state. I watch them as they make their patterns. Anyone who doubts me is a disinformation agent or needs glasses or an intelligence test. Some passenger planes dispense chemtrails, that is why your luggage rates have increased. Mostly, the military planes are fully loaded with tanks of chemicals.

    The NWO has slated the USA for takedown to communist level by the Democrat Party. They are employing the Alice Bailey Agenda: Destroy the family, the economy, the morals, the two sexes by all means possible, flood the borders with refugees and destroy the culture and religious values, etc. etc. Look it up on Avalon. They want the human race to return to Android, sexless things, robots. Happy riddance to humanity.
    Last edited by amor; 7th August 2019 at 08:49.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by amor (here)
    Here is the lowdown. I have carefully watched thousands of very high flying jets laying down chemtrails, as well as commercial jets that fly by and leave an inch trail which quickly dissipates. Chemtrails are very long and long lasting, have nipples on them where they exit the nozzle under the wing and fluff out hugely on their way down to earth and to blank out the blue of the sky and the sun. They appear to be employed for a number of purposes, including to block our view of the heavens where other planets or craft may be going by, to poison all on earth, to distribute disease, and possibly to protect us from a SUN that may be about to SCORCH us to death on the way to blinding us as well.

    That space object seen pumping something out of the sun was in my opinion pumping something INTO THE SUN. I have been watching the sun for 79 years and I won't brook any nonsense with those who say otherwise.

    The chemtrail planes are coming from Military Bases. The one in Utah had vast tanks of chemical material which could be seen on Google Earth. In Northern Florida they are coming from the direction of the Western Panhandle of the state. I watch them as they make their patterns. Anyone who doubts me is a disinformation agent or needs glasses or an intelligence test. Some passenger planes dispense chemtrails, that is why your luggage rates have increased. Mostly, the military planes are fully loaded with tanks of chemicals.

    The NWO has slated the USA for takedown to communist level by the Democrat Party. They are employing the Alice Bailey Agenda: Destroy the family, the economy, the morals, the two sexes by all means possible, flood the borders with refugees and destroy the culture and religious values, etc. etc. Look it up on Avalon. They want the human race to return to Android, sexless things, robots. Happy riddance to humanity.


    You know, for quite a while I used to have this outlook, more or less. That it was an additive in jet fuel used by commercial planes causing these 'chemtrails' so abundant in our skies. Then I got to thinking "why?'. Why would 'they' be spraying our skies........ Was it toxins to poison our air, water and land? No. Because, surely, if 'they' were poisoning our planet, 'they' would also be poisoning their planet. 'They' would still have to breath that same air, drink the same water and eat food from the same land........ Unless, 'they' had a drug that counter-acted against the poison somehow? Then it becomes the same as looking at a Mandelbrot Sprout, a never-ending focus upon fractals of fractals....... The rabbit hole going as deep as forever.

    Military planes. This one doesn't wash either. The pilots and crews of these planes have families, who have families, who have families........ Maybe they have no knowledge of the task that they are supporting? This would make sense, as per compartmentalisation, but I would've thought that the highly dangerous chemicals being loaded onto the planes would be enough to ask even the most cursory of questions. The loading crew in full hazmat gear? The extreme safety procedures in place, etc, etc. The point made a couple of posts above, that I have done myself on many an occasion as I live under the main Atlantic commercial air-corridor, in looking at a plane leaving a vast 'chemtrail' with powerful binoculars and seeing that it is a commercial carrier from CDG to MIA flying it's scheduled route at it's scheduled time. Apart from two C-17 Globe Masters around four years ago, I've never seen another military aircraft leaving 'chemtrails'.

    According to the general consensus, these 'chemtrails' have been happening for some twenty-odd years now. If there usage was for nefarious purposes, to make people sick, to poison our food, water, air, etc, surely we would be seeing a massive increase of Morgellons (I use this as an example as it seems to be the most-used term of a condition caused by 'chemtrails') effecting a huge swath of people across the globe, but especially northern America and northern Europe. A massive increase of dead or dying crops, of poisoned water and air. I have not seen nor read of that happening, yet.

    I can confirm I'm neither a disinformation agent, or in need of an intelligence test (just what is that, by the way? An intelligence test.... just think about that one). I am merely stating my observations and current understanding.


    So maybe it could be new engines, as this side of the equation has vastly changed over the last twenty or so years. The High Bypass Turbofan has become the newest industry standard engine due to it's relatively cheap cost and fuel saving economy, making it a no-brainer for the carriers.

    Just something to think upon.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by amor (here)
    The chemtrail planes are coming from Military Bases...
    Well not in Europe they're not! There are plenty of military bases here, but the European population density would make it very obvious if there were as may flights from these bases as 'chemtrails' would suggest. And I think tanker-loads of transported chemtrail material would be spotted by those convinced there is such a thing.

    And as Horse Blanket says, why would 'They' be polluting the same planet they and their families live on - unless another conspiracy is concocted to support the first one - always a bad idea.

    Believe what you will, but the evidence does not stack up.

    I see no one has attempted to unpick any of the points in post #67...

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Mid-air dust particle factories:


    1940, Europe, Bomber with fighter escorts




    The 1940s, From the 1950 book Air Force: A Pictorial History




    For more WWII contrails, see here:


    Persistent buggers, ain't they!
    Last edited by Hervé; 7th August 2019 at 12:58.
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    I find this to be the problem with all alternative interpretations that run counter to the main narrative.

    No one can agree.

    Also this particular debate seems to be age related. Older pundits of chemtrails remember when the skies did not display these man-made features, if that's what they are. There was a time when the sky could be read for future activity. Not anymore.

    Still, if I can predict, based on past experience, what chemtrails will occur when and where - is that a natural occurance?

    Some here say we must address at least the reason for spraying - as if in this instance the reason is the determining factor. We don't know the reason for this anymore than we know why people are abducted or why naturopathic doctors are dropping like flies - among many other mysteries. Why should this one have more onus on the conspiracy theorist than any other topic?

    We in the alternative field of research seem to be our own worst enemy...
    Forget about it

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    My own provisional thoughts and questions:
    • The multiply-witnessed and photographed checkerboard patterns, not made by commercial aircraft, seem very hard to explain unless the intention was to achieve a certain result. ('Covering a specific area' seems to be pretty much it.)
    • Soil analyses showing high proportions of heavy metals (and how that's spiked in recent years), reported by several researchers, do seem to be very concerning and urgently needing an explanation.
    But:
    • I've never seen a single chemtrail here in Ecuador, in all of 8 years. If this is a global scenario, why do only some countries or regions seem to be targeted?
    It was pointed out to me the other day by someone who works for a Foundation and is in regular contact and using images from NGA. NRO puts the assets up. NGA operates and gets images from them. FYI. I was not aware this was the arrangement. Apparently there is heavy internal conflict between IC components over who gets to control what.

    Clouds are a national security asset in terms of being watched by satellites. This person said "Bad actors use them to hide movements."

    Anyone saying we cant make clouds or weather needs to investigate Operation Popeye.

    Maybe they arent about spraying chems on people but rather hiding the movement of assets.

    This also dovetails with the triangle I saw over Fort Collins CO. It was flying below radar level, which would also put it under cloud cover. I was always curious why they would fly so low given it would make it easier to see. This explains that.
    Last edited by Praxis; 7th August 2019 at 13:53.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    In case readers don't follow links (you know, those embedded under bolded blue texts and which lead to some other page...), here is the Ockham's razor explanation for the WW II persistent contrails:

    WWII Contrails

    There are lots of photos of contrails from World War II. I’ve collected a few of them here:
    https://plus.google.com/photos/10739...34135256807809
    The collection shows all types of contrail formation – from the very short ones, to long persistent trails that spread out like cloud cover.

    Why so many photos of contrails in WWII, and not so many from the 50’s and 60’s? The simple reason is that contrails only form at very low temperatures, which are normally found at high altitude, and in peacetime there was NO REASON TO FLY THAT HIGH until the advent of commercial jet travel a few decades later.

    The only reason these planes are flying that high is so they can avoid anti-aircraft fire. The bombers fly as high as they can, and then their fighter escorts fly even higher, so they can see incoming aircraft targeting the bombers, and swoop down to attack. This type of escorting is called “Top Cover”. The most classic example of this is the famous photo “Top cover over J-Group”:


    This photo was taken over Emden, Germany, on September 27th, 1943, by Stanley M. Smith.
    Last edited by Hervé; 7th August 2019 at 15:14.
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Just FYI,

    Ockhams razor is often misquoted and mis understood.

    It is not the simplest answer but rather the one with the fewest assumptions. There is a very big difference.

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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Wow. I didn't realize piston engine planes could produce contrails. Learn something new every day.
    I am enlightened, ............ Oh wait. That's just the police shining their spotlights on me.

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    Avalon Member Andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by The Crimson Horse Blanket (here)
    You know, for quite a while I used to have this outlook, more or less. That it was an additive in jet fuel used by commercial planes causing these 'chemtrails' so abundant in our skies. Then I got to thinking "why?'. Why would 'they' be spraying our skies........ Was it toxins to poison our air, water and land? No. Because, surely, if 'they' were poisoning our planet, 'they' would also be poisoning their planet. 'They' would still have to breath that same air, drink the same water and eat food from the same land........ Unless, 'they' had a drug that counter-acted against the poison somehow? Then it becomes the same as looking at a Mandelbrot Sprout, a never-ending focus upon fractals of fractals....... The rabbit hole going as deep as forever.
    There are many more plausible reasons for chemtrails that have nothing to do with an intent to poison, e.g sun dimming, weather modification, part the ionospheric heaters used by the military and so forth. Many or most of these are well known to those who has studied the issue and some of these deserve more reasoned debate than the isolated poisoning experiments which may have piggy backed onto some of the stratospheric aerosol spraying programs from time to time. It is also unreasonable to dismiss poisoning outright in relation to chemtrails when it is only reasonable to suspect that it does goes on occasionally, similar to the well documented cases of spraying DDT and other toxic agents over selective populations in the 1950s.

    Quote Posted by The Crimson Horse Blanket (here)
    Military planes. This one doesn't wash either. The pilots and crews of these planes have families, who have families, who have families........ Maybe they have no knowledge of the task that they are supporting? This would make sense, as per compartmentalisation, but I would've thought that the highly dangerous chemicals being loaded onto the planes would be enough to ask even the most cursory of questions. The loading crew in full hazmat gear? The extreme safety procedures in place, etc, etc. The point made a couple of posts above, that I have done myself on many an occasion as I live under the main Atlantic commercial air-corridor, in looking at a plane leaving a vast 'chemtrail' with powerful binoculars and seeing that it is a commercial carrier from CDG to MIA flying it's scheduled route at it's scheduled time. Apart from two C-17 Globe Masters around four years ago, I've never seen another military aircraft leaving 'chemtrails'.
    Firstly, it would be normal practice to have these pilots sign confidentiality agreements which would mean what crews do or do not wear and do in the cargo hold and elsewhere is irrelevant. It would also be normal practice to pay them a lot of money to keep their mouths shut.

    Quote Posted by The Crimson Horse Blanket (here)
    According to the general consensus, these 'chemtrails' have been happening for some twenty-odd years now. If there usage was for nefarious purposes, to make people sick, to poison our food, water, air, etc, surely we would be seeing a massive increase of Morgellons (I use this as an example as it seems to be the most-used term of a condition caused by 'chemtrails') effecting a huge swath of people across the globe, but especially northern America and northern Europe. A massive increase of dead or dying crops, of poisoned water and air. I have not seen nor read of that happening, yet..
    Are you intentionally selecting the least plausible reason for spraying here? Those who have thought long and hard about chemtrailing are well aware that poisoning is the least viable motive and that sun dimming, weather modification and other motives are the ones worth discussing, not poisoning the population. This line of argument would be one used by a troll and not someone with a considered opinion on the matter.

    Quote Posted by The Crimson Horse Blanket (here)
    I can confirm I'm neither a disinformation agent, or in need of an intelligence test (just what is that, by the way? An intelligence test.... just think about that one). I am merely stating my observations and current understanding.
    With all due respect, I find your arguments to lack critical thinking and appear (at least to me) to be based on somewhat shallow thinking. I can't tell if that is intentional or not.

    Quote Posted by The Crimson Horse Blanket (here)
    So maybe it could be new engines, as this side of the equation has vastly changed over the last twenty or so years. The High Bypass Turbofan has become the newest industry standard engine due to it's relatively cheap cost and fuel saving economy, making it a no-brainer for the carriers.
    Last edited by Andre; 7th August 2019 at 15:22.
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    Quote Posted by Kalamos (here)
    There are a number of websites listed below that critique or debunk the chemtrail conspiracy theories. See for example:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtra...spiracy_theory
    http://conspiracies.skepticproject.c...es/chemtrails/
    https://www.metabunk.org/forums/cont...-chemtrails.9/
    http://contrailscience.com/
    I find it hard to believe that a member of this forum would initiate a thread by quoting wikipedia, metabunk and those other sources of disinformation.

    Should I perhaps start a thread on the Flat Earth Theory and ask if other Avalonians considered that it may be true? Should we waste our time debating any nonsense out of politeness, because free speech means giving a forum to anyone with an opinion steeped in cognitive dissonance?

    I fear Avalon will quickly decline if members engage with information sourced from the Ministry of Information out of some misplaced sense of fairness.

    But I also admit, I don't have a clue what can be done about it.
    Last edited by Andre; 7th August 2019 at 15:36.
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    Default Re: Anyone else doubt the Chemtrail Conspiracy?

    How about the idea that we can decide that atoms must exist yet we really don't have any idea what exactly they are.

    since there is, in nearly 100 years of searching and exploring...no 'final definitive/defining reality' to an atom, we can dismiss them as fantasy, period. the end. discussion concluded. forever.

    We do have some so minimal to major issue with the idea of chemtrails. With the idea of observation. With what we see --- those observations -- not fitting in.

    To force a motion of fantasy, that chemtrails are pure fantasy.... is to force a motion like deciding that atoms are wholly unreal.

    It's unscientific, it's anti thinking, anti observation, anti proofing, anti-scientific method, and so on.

    There is something going on, and we are not, in the general public knowledge, really sure of what is going on. On the edges of the envelope of human social groups and norms...this becomes a concern, like it is right now.



    They say 'factional war' for the system of oligarchy. That is the claim.

    Just yesterday, the financial times ran an article about oligarchy being factious and that there is a factional war going on in the power system of the west.

    The so called conspiracy theory about these warring group(s) goes mainstream --- into the average human's lexicon of understanding.



    re chemtrails, I've personally seen persistent long living non dissipating particle trails in the skies, very much below 20,000ft (if not substantially LOWER).... on hot 35 degree C august summer afternoons. We're talking well, well below the inland altitude for a cross continent jet airliner flight.

    Now, that's just my personal anecdotes, of course.

    But what I saw defies all possible aspects of what exactly creates a vaporous trail or contrail. As in, deep inland and no possibility of any cold air being that low to the ground. As in the 'high up' cold air required for a condensation trail to form.

    And, I then predicted to multiple people owning businesses, each with a fair number of employees (10-40 employees each) that there would be a rash of people calling in sick over the next few days. summer flus, stomach and body problems, rashes, respiratory problems, sinus problems, eye problems, joint problems, etc.

    They confirmed my prediction over the following week, as having happened among their groups of employees.

    The record of it is right here on this forum.


    It happened the same time I saw a UFO, and that UFO was also, photographed by me and the images are at the filer's files website.

    the chemtrails and their photography and the UFO photography all happened on the same day, in the same moments. I caught photographs of the 'trails' and the UFO, together.

    Separate from one another. Also, large jets surrounding and milling around the UFO from far back, having arrived across an international border to get there, and when the UFO was gone, then traveling back across the international border.

    Even further strangeness, is that what was obviously particle trails of some sort, all over the skies in the UFO scenario, not one single jet, not one single airliner or plane was heard--or seen. Nothing. Yet, we looked up and saw the slowly dissipating LOW particle trails in the skies. Just the trails, no evidence or record of how they got there.

    I'm just thinking right now. A Cessna at 10k ft? (re imagining the height of the trails) no. This was lower. So yeah, definitely particle trails of some sort, laid down with some unheard and unseen set of craft of some sort, mixed in with a solid UFO sighting.

    I've seen crop dusting dissipate before, and this is similar, at about 10k ft or lower. I've also seen aircraft hitting forest fires, up close and personal, so I do understand the differences between contrails at height and blooms of dissipating particle trails in hot hot skies at much lower altitudes.

    I have photographs of it all.

    there's something going on. it has definitely slowed down over the past years (where I'm at) but there was a time when it was extremely active, whatever 'it' is.

    The UFO seen amomg the particle trails and the effect photographed...is or was similar to what is called a dumbbell craft.



    (place the image is from)

    In my case...The craft was impossibly bright and even eye confusing. Close. Very close. Insanely bright. Impossibly bright. Mirrored in the extreme. Yet the images I captured...have it being small and distant. Interesting....(like trying to capture the full moon on the horizon. The eye sees it is big and close but the camera says it is small and distant.) In my case, the 'ufo'..moved like it was on rails. I've never witnessed anything that seemed that stiff or ramrod stiff in the skies, like it literally was on rails. As rigid and perfect as moving a giant ship on grease cross a giant cement floor.

    since it is near impossible to define distance and size via a clean sky shot, in quite a few of the images, I went through the effort to capture the tops of the trees and the soffit of the two story house..at the same time I have images of the particle trails. Otherwise the images could easily be debunked. the next part is the crazily detailed, intricate swirls of particles dissipating. Which you will not get in a distant vapor trail shot. All in the same shot as the tree tops and the soffit of the house.
    Last edited by Carmody; 7th August 2019 at 17:52.
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