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Thread: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

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    Avalon Member T Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    Quote Posted by funkpunk46 (here)
    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    These are all possible explanations, yes. But the most compelling information to the contrary--discounting the possibilities you mention--is multiple eye-witness accounts (desperate sources) that all describe men in black with black masks with guns storming the store. How do we explain that? The source is in local news interviews... I've seen more than one myself (some likely already scrubbed if we look for them). Are they all mistaken with the same observations? What are the odds of that? Or simply false? Couple that with all the other anomalies and it's looking very much like some kind of psyop. Who knows the what or why of it, but it's looking more like a Northwoods kind of operation to me the more I look at it. Even if the main suspect is a 20-something right-wing Nazi, my feeling is he has been used or duped for a larger operation. Is it not possible--indeed probable--that something more is afoot here?

    I understand the path of least resistance is to explain these shootings, per the official narrative, as right-wing extremism. That explanation, however, is wrapped in a very neat and convenient package for the those advancing their agenda. Kind of like a big hunk of savory and delicious cheese on a mouse trap. Do we really want to go for that?
    Do you have any proof of these eyewitness statements other than your word? I'd be happy to view and consider them, but I'm not going to believe what is basically hearsay (and neither should any reasonable person). I haven't seen any eyewitness statements or on-scene interviews mentioning multiple shooters, and interestingly enough, the site that makes these claims offers no evidence to support them. I did my own search and found no claims of multiple shooters or men in black masks "storming" the scene before the shooting began, in fact people specifically mention only 1 shooter, though I did find a BBC story with a headline stating that the shooter was killed, which is not true. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, not just shady statements accusing those who don't agree with you of somehow being gullible or blind.
    I agree we should not believe hearsay. See the 10 minute mark of this video:

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/6jBxoPIevJHk/.
    Last edited by T Smith; 6th August 2019 at 19:18.

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    Avalon Member T Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)

    What would be evidence that you would consider to be tantamount to White Nationalism rising in the United States? This question asked in the context of increasing hate crimes.
    I cannot access the article you cited without subscribing. Can you kindly PM me the article or copy it in this thread so I might respond? However, based on what I could read I would point out you are describing an assumed correlation. Without reading the article in full, and acknowledging for argument sake hate crimes are on the rise, I would point out the rise in prejudice-motivated crimes could correlate with any number of divisive social conditions prevalent in society, and not necessarily with a rise in "White Nationalism" (which is but an inferred causation agent). Indeed, hate crimes correlate directly with the rise of identity politics, with the trend of corporate concentration of media ownership, with the incipience of globalization, and with synthesized balkanization--either by design or otherwise--and with any number of other social-engineering programs that incite tribalism and divisive proclivities in culture, in which case hate crimes would naturally increase on all sides of the divide. "Hate crime" is also a relatively new category of crime, statistically speaking. If we were to document crimes of the past employing the same metrics of today, I would guess the number of hate crimes, as presently defined, would be the same or substantially higher in the past than they are today.

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    It would be helpful, though, for me, if those who truly believe we are trending more toward White Nationalism and hatred in the Age of Trump to define exactly what White Nationalism is, what they believe has specifically changed or is changing and why, and what constitutes the hatred of Other. I think that may be the only way to proceed with any kind of meaningful conversation about exactly what is going on here.
    You go look it up yourself. And then, paint yourself black like this gentleman did and go outside and see if you experience a world where white nationalism does not exist.

    You are citing a video from over half-a-century ago and a snap-shot of an American era officially characterized by racial segregation and before Jim Crow laws were even abolished. Are you suggesting this is what White Nationalism is and the culture in the video depicts a type of culture on the rise? Are we really amid a transition of culture about to reinstate Jim Crow laws? If so, this is an astounding claim and I would have to categorically and profoundly disagree with that assessment. In which case I would acknowledge with sadness and regret we are living in two different worlds (which could easily be the topic of an entirely new tread and worth exploring further).

    As far as looking up what "White Nationalism" is, the concept is so watered down with ambiguity and so overused and so politically weaponized I honestly cannot respond cogently to most of your criticisms (whether to agree or to disagree) without a clear definition. I may well agree with you on some ground, but we really need to establish a clear definition of the argument you are advancing, lest everything is but a feckless exercise of arguing for or against equivocal claims. In other words, looking up the definition of White Nationalism is about as useful as looking up the definition of good food.

    For example, the video above would characterize White Nationalism (if that is your implication) as racial segregation amid an odious shadow of prejudice overtly sanctioned by the law of the land, which I would resolutely disagree with. Is this your intent? In pockets of 1950s America? Maybe. 2020s America, no.

    I would be eager to continue the discussion with a better idea of what we are discussing.

    Kind Regards,
    T Smith
    Last edited by T Smith; 7th August 2019 at 00:34.

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    Avalon Member O Donna's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    Via tools such as statistics and probability (to name only a few), the 'lone gunman/ gun-person' mantra repeated in the mainstream up to this point in history doesn't add up. Even if I did not know anything about mass killings supposedly perpetrated by a single individual, reason alone would suggest that information regarding additional involvement in a number of these tragic events is being actively suppressed. It should ring alarm bells to not only american citizens but world citizens, IMO.

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    Canada Avalon Member TWINCANS's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    Quote Posted by Caliban (here)
    I suggest you all go over, if you haven't already, to Jim Stone's site: http://82.221.129.208/.we5.html

    He's doing some great work finding and gathering information over there. Look at his stuff on the Ohio shooter who apparently died in 2014. Look at the local Fox news clip from Saturday where the anchor is about to announce another Walmart shooting -- except it wasn't supposed to happen yet and she announced it too early!! Echoes of WTC 7 and BBC?

    I think we should be careful of throwing punches at opponents who aren't there.

    I'd love to hear if anyone has been following - I've been glued to his take on this.

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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    I'm struck by the fact Fox News messed up that announcement and busted everyone so bad.

    Quote In the video a FOX news announcer for a local station in the city a third shooting was supposed to happen in on Saturday (at another Wal Mart) announces the next shooting by accident, BEFORE IT HAPPENED, and she checks her twitter and re-checks, looks a little confused, and then says "that hasent happened yet".
    Quote …this proves Twitter is in on the shootings, Fox News is in on the shootings, Wal Mart is in on the shootings - they HAVE TO be a huge open joke among those who are "privileged", there's no way Twitter missed the fact that these people were using their platform to announce and plan the next shooting and there's no way Wal Mart had this happen at two of their stores by accident, and there's NO WAY FOX HAD THE REPORT AHEAD OF TIME WITHOUT BEING DIRECTLY INVOLVED, BUSTED BUSTED BUSTED.
    Well I just realized Cailban already said this. Is there a way to delete this useless post?

    Mod note from Bill: yes, moderators can easily delete posts on request. But I'd suggest leaving that — it's pretty important, and worth stating twice!

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 7th August 2019 at 23:29.

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