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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    So I just wasted part of my lunch hour reading this horribly written manifesto and just wanted to point out a few things that stuck out to me:

    1. Another member stated "Before it was taken down, his FB page did not exhibit such an intelligent, perfect, "no error" writing style. just saying..." - If you read through the entire thing, you'll find several spelling, grammar, and punctuation errors, including missing words. It's totally possible that this asshole wrote the thing, ate a boring a spaghetti dinner (or maybe it was gas station hot dogs - we'll never know), then came back to proofread it, and still missed several things.

    2. The baby boomers aren't dead. Sure, they're in retirement, but he speaks about this as if all baby boomers are passed on and here the rest of us are, pissing away the future. Not true.

    3. This guy is depressed and has a death wish. He talks about a hopeless future for himself and his imaginary cohorts at several places in this drivel. For instance:
    "The Democrat party will own America and they know it." - Sure, he hates both parties, but clearly states that the "Democrat" Party would be the end of America for white people.
    "Continued immigration will make one of the biggest issues of our time, automation, so much worse." - he then relates this to the loss of low-skilled labor, which is the only type of work he's ever shown to have held, based on his facebook and LinkedIn pages.
    "My whole life I have been preparing for a future that currently doesn’t exist. The job of my dreams will likely be automated. Hispanics will take control of the local and state government of my beloved Texas, changing policy to better suit their needs. They will turn Texas into an instrument of a political coup which will hasten the destruction of our country. " - hopelessness with regard to his future
    "The environment is getting worse by the year. " Hopelessness.
    "Our European comrades don’t have the gun rights needed to repel the millions of invaders that plaque their country. They have no choice but to sit by and watch their countries burn." - "if not me then who" logic.
    "My death is likely inevitable. If I’m not killed by the police, then I’ll probably be gunned down by one of the invaders. Capture in this case is far worse than dying during the shooting because I’ll get the death penalty anyway. [paragraph break] Worse still is that I would live knowing that my family despises me. This is why I’m not going to surrender even if I run out of ammo. If I’m captured, it will be because I was subdued somehow." - He's ready to die, ya'll.

    4. "Automation can and would replace millions of low-skilled jobs if immigrants were deported. This source of competition for skilled labor from immigrants and visa holders around the world has made a very difficult situation even worse for natives as they compete in the skilled job market." - just wanted to point out this nonsensical statement. He begins by discussing the loss of low-skilled jobs due to automation as a hypothetical, then immediately begins to address it as something that has already taken place. Disorganized thinking and language - NOT error-free or thoughtful.

    5. "America can only be destroyed from the inside-out. If our country falls, it will be the fault of traitors. This is why I see my actions as faultless. Because this isn’t an act of imperialism but an act of preservation." THIS MAKES NO ACTUAL SENSE.

    6. He also makes a few statements that he fails to back up, such as: "Some sources say that in under two decades, half of American jobs will be lost to it." What sources? WHERE? and "America is full of hypocrites who will blast my actions as the sole result of racism and hatred of other countries, despite the extensive evidence of all the problems these invaders cause and will cause." What evidence? He didn't have time to cite it?

    7. He was definitely a white supremacist, based on what's written in his manifesto about race mixing and establishing a confederacy of racially exclusive states.

    I think the shooter wrote this document. I think he isn't a patsy and committed this act of his own volition. It's totally possible.

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    Canada Avalon Member Fellow Aspirant's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    Quote Posted by Caliban (here)
    Yes, that "manifesto" has some interesting things, I won't deny it.

    But it's a giant red herring.

    Also, why would someone that thougtful then decide to blast away at a store full of people? For what ultimate end? To get his manifesto out there that shows he cares for this country and its people? Even though he just randomly (we'd assume) shot into a crowded public place?

    Doesn't add up. At all.
    One should not assume that being able to write down a thought makes a person sane. Those who are mentally ill, for example schizophrenics (yeah, I know it's an outmoded label - now called "Disordered Thinking Syndrome", but it'll do for here) are some of the most thoughtful people in the world. They are FULL of thoughts, some of them quite cogent and valid. But some are fragments of irrationality. It's just that some mentally ill peoples' thoughts are too loosely connected (if at all), jumping to invalid conclusions based on their take on reality. The manifesto, then, is a thoughtful rendition of the shooter's observations and conclusions - they jsut don't completely mesh with what most of us think. Just as a paranoid schizophrenic will see a cop car and driving past his or her house and conclude that the police are keeping them under observation. S/he will be able to lucidly describe the event, but not arrive a valid conclusion as to its meaning. How he arrived at the solution of gunning down "invaders" speaks to demonic influences that he has been exposed to and bought into. His rampage makes perfect sense to him.

    B.
    A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest—a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

    Albert E.

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    United States Avalon Member funkpunk46's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
    Quote Posted by Caliban (here)
    Yes, that "manifesto" has some interesting things, I won't deny it.

    But it's a giant red herring.

    Also, why would someone that thougtful then decide to blast away at a store full of people? For what ultimate end? To get his manifesto out there that shows he cares for this country and its people? Even though he just randomly (we'd assume) shot into a crowded public place?

    Doesn't add up. At all.
    One should not assume that being able to write down a thought makes a person sane. Those who are mentally ill, for example schizophrenics (yeah, I know it's an outmoded label - now called "Disordered Thinking Syndrome", but it'll do for here) are some of the most thoughtful people in the world. They are FULL of thoughts, some of them quite cogent and valid. But some are fragments of irrationality. It's just that some mentally ill peoples' thoughts are too loosely connected (if at all), jumping to invalid conclusions based on their take on reality. The manifesto, then, is a thoughtful rendition of the shooter's observations and conclusions - they jsut don't completely mesh with what most of us think. Just as a paranoid schizophrenic will see a cop car and driving past his or her house and conclude that the police are keeping them under observation. S/he will be able to lucidly describe the event, but not arrive a valid conclusion as to its meaning. How he arrived at the solution of gunning down "invaders" speaks to demonic influences that he has been exposed to and bought into. His rampage makes perfect sense to him.

    B.
    "Schizophrenia" is still a clinically accurate term that is still in use. I've worked in adult mental health for years now and this is the first mention of "Disordered Thinking Syndrome" I've come across, actually.

    Also, the writer of the manifesto claims that he's going after the "low hanging fruit" as a means of putting fear into the hearts of immigrants, to hopefully discourage further immigration or inspire them to return to their home countries out of fear. In other words: dumb-**** nonsense. Also, if you read the manifesto, it has plenty of spelling errors, grammar errors, misused and missing words, and punctuation errors. It's not thoughtfully written at all, it's just drivel from a disturbed person with a death wish.

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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    MIKE ADAMS, THE HEALTH RANGER'S TAKE:

    The official news narrative about the El Paso WalMart mass shooting is largely fabricated. Even though the violence was real, and people were really shot and killed, the narrative surrounding the tragedy is almost all fiction.

    Five huge questions are screaming out for real answers:

    #1) If there’s only one shooter, why did so many eyewitnesses report multiple shooters at the scene?

    #2) Why did the local police arrest and hold three suspects in custody, as was widely reported by the media before the story was changed to a “lone shooter?”

    #3) Why does the so-called “manifesto” appear to be written by someone far older than 21 years of age? (Answer: The manifesto is a hoax. It was not written by the individual who was arrested as the shooter.)

    #4) How does one man kill 20 people and wound another 30 people with a single magazine that only holds 30 rounds? The surveillance photo shows no chest rig, no battle belt and no spare magazines.

    #5) If the shooter is on a suicide mission, why does he bother to wear both eye protection and ear protection? Answer: Because he knows he will survive his “mission” and be taken into custody after surrendering to police. It wasn’t a suicide mission at all. Eighteen months from now, the world will have forgotten the name of the shooter, and the media will never report anything about him again. (He will likely be relocated under the witness protection program, living under a new identity after having completed his “mission” for the deep state.)

    BONUS QUESTION: If you hate illegals and want to protect America, why would you mass murder Americans shopping in an American store? Wouldn’t you theoretically want to target illegal aliens if that’s who you want to destroy? Nearly all the people who were shot were Americans. It makes no sense to hate illegals and then turn around and mass murder Americans.

    ONE MORE QUESTION: Why was the shooter’s online profile changed from “Democrat” to Republican / Trump supporter / QAnon follower? Clearly the deep state is modifying his online profile to match their own conspiracy theories and official narratives about QAnon followers being “domestic terrorists.” This is Orwellian-level psyop stuff being run on the entire nation…

    In summary, the official narrative doesn’t add up. In fact, it’s all a “staged violence” event which combines real violence with a fake narrative to achieve a specific political purpose. In this case, the goal is the complete disarmament of the American people, blaming Trump for everything and positioning illegals as “victims” of a mass shooting when, in reality, it was Americans who were actually shot.

    https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-08-...-shooting.html
    Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light!

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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    Excuse the Q-researcher related content from outside of our sandbox, but this video is a must see, to blow this narrative out. (shooter arrest discrepancies, witness accounts, more).

    (Later parts of video may be conjecture, but early parts assemble some of the witness and arrest videos/photos.)


    I got this from Neon's GAB feed.


    Normally Dave, from X22Reports, only does a daily "episode A" regarding economics, and "episode B" video regarding Deep State and Q.

    Yesterday he did a "C" video which was only available on Bitchute. The "C" video was an unedited, full strength content that would never have been allowed on YouTube. He goes deep into how's and why's of what he thinks went down over the weekend.
    #GreatAwakening
    #QAnon

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/6jBxoPIevJHk

    Quote 24 hour warning, we all knew it was going to happen. The DOJ is now looking into what has happened, take a look at the US attorney in Texas, is this a trap for the [DS]. The false flag event in El-Passo was a setup by the DS, the Russian collusion, obstruction stories have fallen apart. The [DS] cannot impeach. The lawsuits against Trump are being dropped. The [DS] pulled off an event to trap Trump, Qanon and patriots, but this might have backfired on them. Q knew that this was going to happen, it was aloud to play out, now the DOJ, US attorney in Texas is investigating.

    All source links to the report can be found on the x22report.com site.

    Most of artwork that are included with these videos have been created by X22 Report and they are used as a representation of the subject matter. The representative artwork included with these videos shall not be construed as the actual events that are taking place.
    Last edited by mountain_jim; 5th August 2019 at 20:36.
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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    The murderous actions of a handful of mentally-disturbed radicals (one of whom happened to author a manifesto reminiscent of Mein Kampf), and assuming these are indeed organic attacks and not some form of orchestrated psyop, does not provide ample evidence, in my humble view, that we are trending toward systemic white nationalism anymore than a random series of vampire attacks in New Zealand indicate their country is being overtaken by vampirism. The shooting attacks this past weekend, while horrific and senseless, are anecdotal evidence of White Nationalism, not systemic evidence of White Nationalism.

    However, I do appreciate the above posts and observations and acknowledge White Nationalism (and hatred and racism) does exist, but I would rather characterize these observations as perceptions through a giant (and contrived) magnifying lens that has amplified reality a thousandfold or more. In such case the observer has honed in on valid observations, but their synopsis is nonetheless an invalid representation of society at large. This is the power of propaganda and mediated experience; those operating the magnifying apparatus have the power to skew the resolution of reality itself to advance a specific agenda.

    It would be helpful, though, for me, if those who truly believe we are trending more toward White Nationalism and hatred in the Age of Trump to define exactly what White Nationalism is, what they believe has specifically changed or is changing and why, and what constitutes the hatred of Other. I think that may be the only way to proceed with any kind of meaningful conversation about exactly what is going on here.
    Last edited by T Smith; 5th August 2019 at 20:31.

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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    I was aware of the eye-witness reports yesterday, but the previous two posts by Ba-ba-Ra and mountain_jim are very compelling. Sort of negates my previous argument altogether if the "White Nationalist" they're exploiting to push the narrative is either an entirely fictitious creation or nothing but a patsy...
    Last edited by T Smith; 6th August 2019 at 02:53.

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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    Quote Posted by Ba-ba-Ra (here)
    MIKE ADAMS, THE HEALTH RANGER'S TAKE:

    The official news narrative about the El Paso WalMart mass shooting is largely fabricated. Even though the violence was real, and people were really shot and killed, the narrative surrounding the tragedy is almost all fiction.

    Five huge questions are screaming out for real answers:

    #1) If there’s only one shooter, why did so many eyewitnesses report multiple shooters at the scene?

    #2) Why did the local police arrest and hold three suspects in custody, as was widely reported by the media before the story was changed to a “lone shooter?”

    #3) Why does the so-called “manifesto” appear to be written by someone far older than 21 years of age? (Answer: The manifesto is a hoax. It was not written by the individual who was arrested as the shooter.)

    #4) How does one man kill 20 people and wound another 30 people with a single magazine that only holds 30 rounds? The surveillance photo shows no chest rig, no battle belt and no spare magazines.

    #5) If the shooter is on a suicide mission, why does he bother to wear both eye protection and ear protection? Answer: Because he knows he will survive his “mission” and be taken into custody after surrendering to police. It wasn’t a suicide mission at all. Eighteen months from now, the world will have forgotten the name of the shooter, and the media will never report anything about him again. (He will likely be relocated under the witness protection program, living under a new identity after having completed his “mission” for the deep state.)

    BONUS QUESTION: If you hate illegals and want to protect America, why would you mass murder Americans shopping in an American store? Wouldn’t you theoretically want to target illegal aliens if that’s who you want to destroy? Nearly all the people who were shot were Americans. It makes no sense to hate illegals and then turn around and mass murder Americans.

    ONE MORE QUESTION: Why was the shooter’s online profile changed from “Democrat” to Republican / Trump supporter / QAnon follower? Clearly the deep state is modifying his online profile to match their own conspiracy theories and official narratives about QAnon followers being “domestic terrorists.” This is Orwellian-level psyop stuff being run on the entire nation…

    In summary, the official narrative doesn’t add up. In fact, it’s all a “staged violence” event which combines real violence with a fake narrative to achieve a specific political purpose. In this case, the goal is the complete disarmament of the American people, blaming Trump for everything and positioning illegals as “victims” of a mass shooting when, in reality, it was Americans who were actually shot.

    https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-08-...-shooting.html
    Based on the number of spelling, grammar and punctuation errors, along with misused and missing words, I would definitely guess that the writer of that manifesto could have been 21 years of age. Ideas are presented in a disorganized fashion - even with subject headings. He mentions "sources" and "extensive evidence" but never cites them and introduces ideas that make no sense and are never elaborated upon. A kid definitely could've written that.

    Also, he likely wore eye and ear protection in order to stay coherent and able to fire his weapon for as long as possible - he also mentions having to wear heat-resistant gloves because of the tendency of his firearm to overheat in his manifesto. It's all just a practicl tactic to keep himself able to accurately kill as many people as possible.

    Also, he could have had spare ammunition in his pockets which would not be easily viewable on a security camera.

    RE: bonus question - in his manifesto he clearly states that he wants his act to strike fear in the hearts of immigrants in order to motiviate them to leave the US. He says it plainly.

    Lastly - people change. Many far right extemists start out in more liberal circles. Look at the Proud Boys and the "Unite the Right" crowds.

    What's the source for "eyewitness" claims of multiple shooters? Did it ever occur to the writer of that article that others were detained because the police had *no clue* what was going on and even they didn't know how many shooters there were initially? A single automatic firearm can make enough noise, especially indoors, for it to sound like multiple weapons. Anyone who's been on an indoor shooting range would know that.
    Last edited by funkpunk46; 6th August 2019 at 00:09. Reason: Elaborating as my first response was from my phone while on the crapper

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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    Quote Posted by funkpunk46 (here)

    Based on the number of spelling, grammar and punctuation errors, along with misused and missing words, I would definitely guess that the writer of that manifesto could have been 21 years of age. Ideas are presented in a disorganized fashion - even with subject headings. He mentions "sources" and "extensive evidence" but never cites them and introduces ideas that make no sense and are never elaborated upon. A kid definitely could've written that.

    Also, he likely wore eye and ear protection in order to stay coherent and able to fire his weapon for as long as possible - he also mentions having to wear heat-resistant gloves because of the tendency of his firearm to overheat in his manifesto. It's all just a practicl tactic to keep himself able to accurately kill as many people as possible.

    Also, he could have had spare ammunition in his pockets which would not be easily viewable on a security camera.

    RE: bonus question - in his manifesto he clearly states that he wants his act to strike fear in the hearts of immigrants in order to motiviate them to leave the US. He says it plainly.

    Lastly - people change. Many far right extemists start out in more liberal circles. Look at the Proud Boys and the "Unite the Right" crowds.

    What's the source for "eyewitness" claims of multiple shooters? Did it ever occur to the writer of that article that others were detained because the police had *no clue* what was going on and even they didn't know how many shooters there were initially? A single automatic firearm can make enough noise, especially indoors, for it to sound like multiple weapons. Anyone who's been on an indoor shooting range would know that.
    These are all possible explanations, yes. But the most compelling information to the contrary--discounting the possibilities you mention--is multiple eye-witness accounts (desperate sources) that all describe men in black with black masks with guns storming the store. How do we explain that? The source is in local news interviews... I've seen more than one myself (some likely already scrubbed if we look for them). Are they all mistaken with the same observations? What are the odds of that? Or simply false? Couple that with all the other anomalies and it's looking very much like some kind of psyop. Who knows the what or why of it, but it's looking more like a Northwoods kind of operation to me the more I look at it. Even if the main suspect is a 20-something right-wing Nazi, my feeling is he has been used or duped for a larger operation. Is it not possible--indeed probable--that something more is afoot here?

    I understand the path of least resistance is to explain these shootings, per the official narrative, as right-wing extremism. That explanation, however, is wrapped in a very neat and convenient package for the those advancing their agenda. Kind of like a big hunk of savory and delicious cheese on a mouse trap. Do we really want to go for that?
    Last edited by T Smith; 6th August 2019 at 13:43.

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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)

    ... most compelling information to the contrary--discounting the possibilities you mention--is multiple eye-witness accounts (desperate sources) that all describe men in black with black masks with guns storming the store.
    Sounds like maybe the Swat Team?

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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    Quote Posted by Kalamos (here)
    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)

    ... most compelling information to the contrary--discounting the possibilities you mention--is multiple eye-witness accounts (desperate sources) that all describe men in black with black masks with guns storming the store.
    Sounds like maybe the Swat Team?
    I thought of that, too... except according to the eye witness accounts, it was before the shootings began

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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    Is it blatant arrogance and recklessness that doubles as an FU to the people resisting gun control to so obviously stage these three shootings (Gilroy, El Paso, Dayton) one after another with the mysterious 'shooters' all looking exactly alike?

    Are they saying "how stupid are you all?" or "your resistance is futile, look what we can get away with and it's only a matter of time until we get what we want" or are they just tired of waiting and ramping up the agenda.

    It's a bit scary that from now until the next election they desperately don't want to lose, I'm worried about all the more fake things that will ramp up in an effort to put Trump in a corner or bad light.


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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    I am not a chan researcher/reader, but I am aware that FBI ****e-posting to set the place up for a fall was proven previously by the anons there.

    Quote Posted in Great Awakening
    @FA355 Remember the shooting (CA bar last year I think) where Fibbie was busted stirring stuff up?

    Posted in Great Awakening
    @FA355 D) FBI itself posted

    Posted in Great Awakening
    @FA355 - and then, surprise, surprise, 8-chan gets yanked down before the Anons can do any more digging or disseminate the truth about the shooting.
    From Neon's Gab feed

    https://gab.com/NeonRevolt







    Last edited by mountain_jim; 6th August 2019 at 11:18.
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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)

    This is the power of propaganda and mediated experience; those operating the magnifying apparatus have the power to skew the resolution of reality itself to advance a specific agenda.

    It would be helpful, though, for me, if those who truly believe we are trending more toward White Nationalism and hatred in the Age of Trump to define exactly what White Nationalism is, what they believe has specifically changed or is changing and why, and what constitutes the hatred of Other. I think that may be the only way to proceed with any kind of meaningful conversation about exactly what is going on here.
    This last paragraph leaps out as really one of the most astute I've seen anywhere here - thank you I really couldn't agree more.

    Definitions here, and clear ones, really do need to be made.
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    I suggest you all go over, if you haven't already, to Jim Stone's site: http://82.221.129.208/.we5.html

    He's doing some great work finding and gathering information over there. Look at his stuff on the Ohio shooter who apparently died in 2014. Look at the local Fox news clip from Saturday where the anchor is about to announce another Walmart shooting -- except it wasn't supposed to happen yet and she announced it too early!! Echoes of WTC 7 and BBC?

    I think we should be careful of throwing punches at opponents who aren't there.
    Last edited by Caliban; 6th August 2019 at 15:01.

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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    Needless to say, this didnt start with Trump, but he is certainly using it to his advantage.
    There is a growing trend of white nationalism. And also direct, unadulterated racism, hatred expressed toward the Other. I do appreciate T Smith's point about how some of what is being mistaken for racism is, in fact, a disdain for for those who do not fully take on American culture. It would be really something if Drumpf ended up being the President who started rounding up weapons. These attacks are only going to increase in ferocity and number.
    It is the people who put immigrants in cages just for wanting a better life that are anti American culture.

    Give me your poor huddle masses yearning to be free. That is American. What is American culture? It is liberty equality and justice for all. American culture is the culture of you get to be you and do your thing as long as it doesn't infringe on others rights for the same thing. America doesnt have a culture in the sense you are thinking and that is what makes it so strong. All cultures can come here if they are willing to live with others. If you accept those three principles for ALL PEOPLE that is American.

    A legal immigrant is one who accepts these three ideas. An illegal immigrant rejects them. I find many citizens to actually be illegal immigrants.

    I find T Smith lines of argument to be disingenuous. He is gaslighting us. There are obvious examples of Trump using white nationalism talking points, like calling it an invasion and that they will overrun the country, and here T smith is asking where the evidence of it is. Trump literally chuckled at the idea of them being shot, i am sure you saw the video.

    Literally a dude spouts off race war stuff straight from Storm Front talking points, BTW did you know that "There is a storm coming" is a white nationalist calling card?, then drives closer to the border so there would be more brown people to murder and he is asking where is the white nationalism and hatred of the other we are talking about.

    Eric Gardner is dead because of skin color. The person who took the video of that man dying is in prison for videoing it. The cop that did it is free. This is not the only example of this kind of thing.

    If one can not see the systemic racism and hatred in our society, then one is trying not to see it.

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  33. Link to Post #57
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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    The murderous actions of a handful of mentally-disturbed radicals (one of whom happened to author a manifesto reminiscent of Mein Kampf), and assuming these are indeed organic attacks and not some form of orchestrated psyop, does not provide ample evidence, in my humble view, that we are trending toward systemic white nationalism anymore than a random series of vampire attacks in New Zealand indicate their country is being overtaken by vampirism. The shooting attacks this past weekend, while horrific and senseless, are anecdotal evidence of White Nationalism, not systemic evidence of White Nationalism.
    Ok. I disagree profoundly, obviously.

    What would be evidence that you would consider to be tantamount to White Nationalism rising in the United States? This question asked in the context of increasing hate crimes. And, the American system of governance has an inherent propensity toward White Nationalism and always has. Do you disagree with that also? By "increasing", I suppose what is actually happening is that we are returning to a form that has been true of America for quite a time, in all actually, since the nation's founding. So perhaps "rising" is the wrong way to put it. Perhaps, making America great again is what is going on instead?

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    However, I do appreciate the above posts and observations and acknowledge White Nationalism (and hatred and racism) does exist, but I would rather characterize these observations as perceptions through a giant (and contrived) magnifying lens that has amplified reality a thousandfold or more.
    That is patently false. Nothing is amplified. If anything, it is undercounted and under acknowledged. Even with the proliferation of phones in today's society, many racially-based aggression happen on the personal level that are not reported or counted in some formal fashion. When the norm is Eurocentric, and people outside of the norm engage and interact, the norm is then taken to be the single and predominant methodology through which culture is expressed, which is also, and has always been, false in these United States.


    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    In such case the observer has honed in on valid observations, but their synopsis is nonetheless an invalid representation of society at large. This is the power of propaganda and mediated experience; those operating the magnifying apparatus have the power to skew the resolution of reality itself to advance a specific agenda.
    You seem to totally be discounting personal and group experience. Lived experience, which is par the course in Academia and in the discourse of those who observe from the outside and do not experience life as lived from the perspective of those Other from themselves. There may be an agenda, sure, but that agenda has some real world consequences for real people and that agenda certainly cannot be traced back through hundreds of years of lived experience of racism and white nationalism. For those of you who think that, you continue to live in a Dreamworld of your own and your paradigm's construction.

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    It would be helpful, though, for me, if those who truly believe we are trending more toward White Nationalism and hatred in the Age of Trump to define exactly what White Nationalism is, what they believe has specifically changed or is changing and why, and what constitutes the hatred of Other. I think that may be the only way to proceed with any kind of meaningful conversation about exactly what is going on here.
    You go look it up yourself. And then, paint yourself black like this gentleman did and go outside and see if you experience a world where white nationalism does not exist.


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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    These are all possible explanations, yes. But the most compelling information to the contrary--discounting the possibilities you mention--is multiple eye-witness accounts (desperate sources) that all describe men in black with black masks with guns storming the store. How do we explain that? The source is in local news interviews... I've seen more than one myself (some likely already scrubbed if we look for them). Are they all mistaken with the same observations? What are the odds of that? Or simply false? Couple that with all the other anomalies and it's looking very much like some kind of psyop. Who knows the what or why of it, but it's looking more like a Northwoods kind of operation to me the more I look at it. Even if the main suspect is a 20-something right-wing Nazi, my feeling is he has been used or duped for a larger operation. Is it not possible--indeed probable--that something more is afoot here?

    I understand the path of least resistance is to explain these shootings, per the official narrative, as right-wing extremism. That explanation, however, is wrapped in a very neat and convenient package for the those advancing their agenda. Kind of like a big hunk of savory and delicious cheese on a mouse trap. Do we really want to go for that?
    Do you have any proof of these eyewitness statements other than your word? I'd be happy to view and consider them, but I'm not going to believe what is basically hearsay (and neither should any reasonable person). I haven't seen any eyewitness statements or on-scene interviews mentioning multiple shooters, and interestingly enough, the site that makes these claims offers no evidence to support them. I did my own search and found no claims of multiple shooters or men in black masks "storming" the scene before the shooting began, in fact people specifically mention only 1 shooter, though I did find a BBC story with a headline stating that the shooter was killed, which is not true. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, not just shady statements accusing those who don't agree with you of somehow being gullible or blind.
    Last edited by funkpunk46; 6th August 2019 at 17:50.

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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)

    What is American culture? It is liberty equality and justice for all. American culture is the culture of you get to be you and do your thing as long as it doesn't infringe on others rights for the same thing. America doesnt have a culture in the sense you are thinking and that is what makes it so strong. All cultures can come here if they are willing to live with others. If you accept those three principles for ALL PEOPLE that is American.
    Hello Praxis,

    I'm assuming this post may be a response to my last observations regarding your comments. First off, I want to thank you for engaging in the discussion; though we disagree on some points we certainly agree on others and I appreciate your viewpoint. This is a very important topic and we all have something important to say in the process of finding synthesis.

    In regard to the comments above, I don't see where we are in disagreement. You have said all the things I have said, e.g. American culture is liberty, equality, and justice for all. I would argue your own words comprise the most compelling argument for the process of legal immigration vs. organic immigration, e.g., "... all cultures can come here if they....accept those three principles..." Exactly.

    Questions to consider: should we allow all people into our society and culture who do not share these values? This is a sincere question, albeit somewhat distasteful to our sensibilities, for what we are really asking is, are there any circumstance where discrimination is justified? What about folks who do not believe in liberty, equality, and justice for all? Should we discriminate against them or open our arms to them, and if we choose the latter, or don't ensure a defense against the latter, as your own words seem to suggest, what might the social consequences be to the fabric of our culture and way of life? I'm sure I needn't point out to you that there are many, many peoples and cultures all over the world that do not embrace the values you point out we Americans do, where women and minorities are physically subjugated, where justice is subverted, where unfavorable sexual orientation can result in death or torture. Should we allow these values en masse into our culture? I understand there are some people who do not believe in borders--and we can certainly discuss these ideas--but if we conclude we should maintain some kind of border how do we know people immigrating into America for a so-called "better way of life" share our values? The answer is, by process of legal immigration, which is really another way of saying by the process of polite discrimination. The whole purpose of legal immigration, then, is to assure disparate peoples and cultures share our American values and will successfully acclimate into our own culture without adulterating the idea of liberty, equality, and justice for all. This is the very point I made in my previous post, and unless I've misread your words, I believe we are in agreement.

    All said I cannot emphasis the point enough, as this one point is continually twisted and misappropriated (which is where I believe we may diverge in viewpoint) via propaganda and social engineers with a sinister agenda to break down the fabric of the collective values upon which we both agree. Specifically, those with the agenda to manipulate our sensibilities continually gaslight us by subtly interchanging the idea of "American values", which you defined above, with the spurious idea of "American Whiteness", which is complete nonsense. This is a psyop and a very sophisticated way to manipulate the mind to reject American values by first convincing it that what it is really rejecting is "American Whiteness". The latter idea (pushed 24/7 by MSM and the propagandist apparatus of the established Power Structure) is not only divisive and balkanizing, it's also absurd. With all due respect to your viewpoint, this is where you and others are misguided or misinformed: immigration has nothing whatsoever to do with race, color, creed, what kind of food you like, what kind of God you pray to, what kind of rituals or song or dance you subscribe to, as long as at the beginning of the day one embraces liberty, equality, and justice for all. Please bear in mind I am advancing this argument using your words, not mine.


    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    I find many citizens to actually be illegal immigrants.
    By definition that they don't embrace the American way of life as you have advanced... again, agreed. We should call them out, and truth be told, doing so is actually what political dialog and political discourse is all about. It is what the 1st Amendment is about and freedom of speech is about. There are entire political parties--especially at the extreme fringe of the political spectrum on both left and right--that do not embrace American values. Let's keep the dialog open (and assure we maintain a culture that embraces the idea) so to not tip the scale to either end of the extreme...


    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    I find T Smith lines of argument to be disingenuous. He is gaslighting us. There are obvious examples of Trump using white nationalism talking points, like calling it an invasion and that they will overrun the country, and here T smith is asking where the evidence of it is. Trump literally chuckled at the idea of them being shot, i am sure you saw the video.
    Yes, I am asking you to question your perceptions, how they were formed, and what assumptions you may or may not have accepted on the foundation of givens you may not have fully examined, but respectfully, I'm not gaslighting. That's something entirely different. And the truth is, I'm not even asking you or others with differing ideas to agree with any or all of my own viewpoints. I'm just asking you to question your assumptions, some of which, in my view, are misguided and spurious.

    For example, yes, Trump has used the word "invasion"... and I'm not saying I necessarily agree with his rhetoric or style of communication, but I'm assuming you have seen these photos, and here? Would it be more tasteful if he used the word "crisis" as the left does? Maybe. We are splitting hairs with semantics. This has been dubbed an "invasion" not only by Trump, but by numerous media outlets and journalists. Perhaps you believe all these reports are by White Nationalists by your definitions. And we can certainly discuss or condemn the use of the word "invasion," if you wish, but my argument here isn't whether or not the influx of people crossing the southern border en masse has employed the appropriate term. My argument is with your assumptions. You are assuming, by "invasion", or "crisis", or whatever word one wishes to use, that the terminology automatically denounces and rebukes people of color. You are assuming those who take issue with what they can see with their own eyes contain a specific hidden prejudice against brown people or a specific hidden prejudice against "non-White" people. How did you come to this given? Are there any specific remarks or examples that rebuke people of color rather than rebuke a group of people crossing the boarder en masse? Something Trump may have said because of their brown skin maybe? What am I missing? I have never heard Trump condemn the brown skin of the people crossing the boarder (if I am mistaken, by all means, please cite) so I would ask, how exactly did you come to this assumption? Unless there is something specific, I would submit this is a false connection that has been implanted in your consciousness and has nothing whatsoever to do with skin color. Put another way, if this was a group of White European men we would be having the same exact discussion. I promise you we would.

    With all due respect, this is not about race, brown skin, white skin, or racism. This is about cultural adulteration, not White adulteration, and specifically about the adulteration of liberty, justice, and equality for all.
    Last edited by T Smith; 8th August 2019 at 02:48.

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    Default Re: 20 Dead in El Paso Walmart Shooting

    Quote Posted by funkpunk46 (here)
    .

    Do you have any proof of these eyewitness statements other than your word? I'd be happy to view and consider them, but I'm not going to believe what is basically hearsay (and neither should any reasonable person). I haven't seen any eyewitness statements or on-scene interviews mentioning multiple shooters, and interestingly enough, the site that makes these claims offers no evidence to support them. I did my own search and found no claims of multiple shooters or men in black masks "storming" the scene before the shooting began, in fact people specifically mention only 1 shooter, though I did find a BBC story with a headline stating that the shooter was killed, which is not true. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, not just shady statements accusing those who don't agree with you of somehow being gullible or blind.
    Here’s a link to the Daily Mail for you.
    Scroll down to the video : “Witness describes tense moments during El Paso shooting.”

    I don’t know if the witness is truthful or the whole thing is staged. That’s always the problem with events like this.

    I was surprised to see so little panic and so little blood for the sort of weapon that was used.
    Also strange the way the arm of the injured woman was taped. With a sort of black tape ...


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...49101931856524
    Last edited by Deux Corbeaux; 6th August 2019 at 21:57. Reason: Clarity

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