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Thread: Exposing Yourself To Malevolence

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    United States Moderator Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exposing Yourself To Malevolence

    an aside: it's prudent to break your fears up into manageable parts. in no way am i suggesting you just cannonball into the pits of hell and hope for the best.

    as i said, part of my practice is to watch stuff about gladiator prisons. that's me. your fears are likely totally different. face them at your own pace, would be my suggestion. this isn't a race. it's not a macho thing. it's merely a method of inoculating oneself against the darkness in life

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    United States Moderator Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exposing Yourself To Malevolence


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    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exposing Yourself To Malevolence

    Okay, Mike, I won't purposely be obtuse and try to give a true perspective. By the way, you piss me off a lot but I still respect you. I don't like having my little world rocked all the time and you are an expert at that - and with good reason and intent. So thanks for making me uncomfortable.

    The inoculation against malevolence is to expose oneself to it, is the premise.

    Yes, I understand that. In the past I have waded right into the heart of evil without a care because my protection was the one true god. I could even dabble in evil and still remain innocent and pure. It has to do with intention and purpose.

    But as the years have gone by I became rigid in my expectations and refused gifts that I deemed inappropriate or unwanted. This caused me to veer off course. And the more I demanded a certain type of favor, the more I was offered alternatives. I became frustrated and caustic. My beliefs let me down, and I found myself floundering.

    Instead of jumping to a new belief system I rejected them all. My world became me against the evil with no protection and no god. And so it has remained. I won't let god in because I am angry god let me down. Yet in reality, I let myself down.

    It has taken three years to soften my steely grip on what amounts to insubordination against myself, against my god. I have my daughter and her children to thank for that. And my son-in-law and his family who are truly great and loving people. I feel included and wanted and loved and cherished - things I never felt in my own family, not in sincerity at least. It has been a remarkable experience, learning of the love of family. Maybe it was always there but I was too self-absorbed to see it...I see it now.

    So I have witnessed evil in all its forms, mostly within myself but also out in the world. I have never been uncertain as to its existence, unlike its counterpart, our Creator.

    Why is that? Why am I certain of evil but not of god?

    I would counter your premise by stating that there are many of us who could use more encounters with love and its effects than we are in need of more evil.

    Evil I am keenly aware of, the good...not so much.
    If not now, then when?

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    Default Re: Exposing Yourself To Malevolence

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    I would counter your premise by stating that there are many of us who could use more encounters with love and its effects than we are in need of more evil.

    Evil I am keenly aware of, the good...not so much.
    No one's saying we're in need of more evil, oh Ernie!!!

    It's not hard to see this idea or exposing yourself to malevolence is full of tricks. Not Mike's tricks, just general tricks....

    When Mike used the example about taking a cold shower for the sake of experiencing discomfort, something kind of hit me then. I mean, what a ridiculous example, though I do get the point!

    I get the idea of building immunity or tolerance, but let's consider spiders in place of evil for a second. They're not evil I know, I use the example because I have a phobia of spiders. The only way to get rid of a phobia is to expose yourself to it, but since it's not impacting my life, I've decided not to expose myself to spiders on purpose.

    Same applies to evil - I don't expose myself to it purposefully, I am just keenly aware of it.

    The idea of more encounters with love's effects sounds like a great way to battle malevolence.

    I wonder if anyone has considered laughing at the malevolence. I feel kind of guilty for laughing about evil sometimes (I admit I have cackled quite a bit too). EDIT: I know I shouldn't be feel sorry for the evil (ha ha), I just imagine it as if evil has NO CHANCE of winning this particular battle! Maybe that's just me deflecting the issue - it feels instinctual. Laughing at the scary stuff really does seem to make it go away faster.
    Last edited by petra; 13th August 2019 at 17:31.

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    Default Re: Exposing Yourself To Malevolence

    I understood Mike to really be talking about going beyond your comfort level, to gain wisdom.

    There was a great general who subscribed to the same philosophy; marching long miles in discomfort, etc. as a way of making one aware and alive.

    I went through a period where I watched dumb shows about horrific murders, in order to get beyond fear of a certain thing. You have to push yourself beyond the normal limits in order to grow.

    And I believe this is what the "fourth way" is about. At least partially. It's about pushing yourself beyond the bounds of comfort, in order to break free of the ties that bind us here.

    Stress really does create beautiful diamonds from coal. All life and creation comes with struggle.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Exposing Yourself To Malevolence

    Quote Posted by petra (here)

    I wonder if anyone has considered laughing at the malevolence.
    Yes! I did this only recently and it worked.

    If you need to unhinge a "sure of itself" human being, this is a fine option, hyena style.

    If you need to subdue a neighbor like ours, a .380 at point blank range apparently does it. I don't know where he was hit, but survived, the cops said we should have killed him. Much later, during the escalation I performed in a different setting, I at least had the pleasure of being threatened by the same thing.

    Mental, verbal, or physical, malevolence is all around and does not wish away very well.

    Any well-trained fighter will tell you anger has no place in the fight. For one thing it will tense your muscles and you become exhausted much faster. Your aim plummets. So for the most part, I look at this issue as how much trash you can take without getting mad.

    I may be rather steely to it in a physical way, but I have a kind of verbal weakness. Which is not quite like if you say something about me, I take it personally or get offended, the trouble is I don't believe the person should be allowed to say that kind of stuff, while I am just the momentary representative of anyone/people. A physical process can be stopped, but the verbal one is an ongoing spew that cannot, at least not by legitimate means. And then of course there is no way to bolster my psyche unless I am exposed to it, which means it will probably happen more. However this still seems less relevant than the point that one is powerless to prevent the spew from sliming other beings. I haven't figured this out yet.

    Anything criminal can be "handled", but nothing prevents this other type from going around freely to take verbal shots at whoever.

    Words can be weapons, just a week or so ago I felt the Mamos jumping through nearby and so I immediately pacified mine and ignored the cheap shot that was tossed at me and simply witnessed an altercation just literally erupt from nothing. No tangible issue for anyone to react to. Then just from words arose a somewhat remarkable verbal combat resulting in a walkout/dismissal. Really a completely unnecessary thing. Mamos equate to "loss of control" in such situations. From zero to insane for no reason.

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    Default Re: Exposing Yourself To Malevolence

    As Mike has written earlier in the thread, it seems that sometimes getting in touch with the shadow can take the form of engaging with people who we feel represent the darker side of things.

    People we might not ordinarily want to be around could be seen as the shadow, manifested in society. These could include those who’ve committed a crime, those who are destitute, those who are ill, those with extreme political or religious views, or simply people who we feel “have a bad attitude”, etc.

    From the stories shared here of these ex-convicts (and others) I’ve read elsewhere, it seems that no-one is beyond personal transformation. There is hope for everyone and even a “redemption” of sorts.

    A wonderful example is a fabulous story shared by Bill here in 2013:

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    -------

    Hi, All:

    This is a true story of an experience I had on a personal development training course about a dozen years ago, in the UK. Many of you reading this may know that this kind of thing used to be my profession.

    The client was a public institution, internationally very well-known, and my team and I had a mixed bag of employees, at all levels, in our care for six days. It was a pure residential personal development training program, and it took place in a little farmhouse in the Welsh hills, a very beautiful and peaceful place.

    Working with this organization on this program was always one of my favorite events every year. The employees were almost always pleasant, intelligent, enthusiastic, and extremely nice people to work with.

    But on this occasion, they had sent along a member of the security team (not in itself any problem: they were usually extremely nice people, too), and his name was Joe. Joe was as toxic as it was possible to get. He was negative, disruptive, destructive, snide, cynical, aggressive, and basically very nasty to everyone, all the time. He was like a caricature from some movie.

    There were three others in my training team, and they all wanted to send him home on the train immediately. No possible good could come of his being on the course. His manager back in London had told me about him, and was desperate for a solution. He was also a union rep, and was apparently as hostile and aggressive at work as he was in the Welsh countryside.

    However, something told me that he should stay. It was my program, and I over-ruled my three colleagues. "Wait", I told them.

    They were not happy with my decision. We worked in small teams, so I made sure I had Joe in my group where at least I could protect some of the others (and my staff, too) that way.

    Four days into the six, and there was absolutely no change. I was taking a huge risk, and I knew it: Joe was disrupting all the sessions, interrupting, laughing, sniping at the other course members who were trying to talk about their lives. It was not at all easy.

    Then, something extraordinary happened.

    We were on a mountain walk, and one of the girls sprained her ankle. We had to return to the farmhouse early.

    Without any bidding, Joe took her backpack, and with his arm round her shoulder, supported her all the way down the hill. I was rather amazed, and just let it all happen. Back at base, we strapped her ankle, and put the kettle on. Joe was very quiet for the rest of the day. I thanked him for his help, and so did the girl, who had been quite distressed.

    The following day, the fifth of the six, we started to see a change. Joe started to talk about his family and his childhood, which had been pretty rough. We all listened well, and thanked him for sharing his story with us.

    Joe seemed now to be changing by the minute, trusting us at last with some of his vulnerability. My colleagues were starting to give me funny looks. I again asked them to hang in there with me.

    On the sixth day, we were all due to pack up and depart at noon. The final session had us all sitting round in front of the farmhouse fire, sharing what we'd all learned or gained from the week. We gradually went round the circle, as the delegates shared their thoughts and feelings.

    And we were getting closer and closer to Joe's turn. I could sense the uneasiness. Was he going to ruin it all with a clever-clever comment?

    When Joe's turn arrived, everyone just looked at him, waiting. There was a tension in the room, and there was a very long silence. Finally, Joe took a deep breath, and said:

    "This has been the first time I ever felt I belonged to the human race."

    Then he began to cry.

    That set us all off. Everyone got up and hugged him. It was a like a religious revival. No-one could speak. Even now, I have tears in my eyes as I recall this story.

    In the minibus on the way to the train station, which I was driving, Joe got straight in the front and sat right next to me. Quietly, he said:

    "You saved my life. I would either have killed myself, or killed someone else."

    He paused. "You're a sound geezer."

    (Cockney: 'you're an okay person'. )

    I shook his hand, and told him he was a sound geezer, too. We both laughed.

    On Monday afternoon, his manager phoned me. "What happened?" He said. "Joe came right up to me this morning and said: 'Come on, let's sit down and talk. We have to work together.' What on earth did you do?"

    My reply to him was that Joe, of course, had done this all himself. He had taken advantage of an opportunity, the kind that presents itself to every one of us, every day. He was responsible for his own transformation, as we all are. And some of us take advantage of the chance, and some don't.

    This is what life is all about.
    “If you have nothing else to do, you may as well get enlightened”, Pierre Grimes

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    Default Re: Exposing Yourself To Malevolence

    Quote Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
    I went through a period where I watched dumb shows about horrific murders, in order to get beyond fear of a certain thing. You have to push yourself beyond the normal limits in order to grow.
    I agree with pushing limits but I've also been thinking... watching shows about horrific murders doesn't really seem close to experiencing horrific murders. I mean.. does anyone get PTSD from watching TV? Because I somehow doubt it.

    We don't want to desensitize ourselves either. I want to be able to feel my feelings, and this I'm adamant about! I'd just rather not have to be horrified, in order to grow.

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    Default Re: Exposing Yourself To Malevolence

    Everyone's experience is different dear Petra. What works for one person often does not work for another.

    For the record, I wish there were no malevolence in this world. But, that would be ignoring reality.

    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Exposing Yourself To Malevolence

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Quote Posted by petra (here)

    I wonder if anyone has considered laughing at the malevolence.
    Yes! I did this only recently and it worked.

    If you need to unhinge a "sure of itself" human being, this is a fine option, hyena style.
    I laughed at hyena style - that's me sometimes, and it feels like insanity impending! Laughing is a defense mechanism and it works, but also a way of evasion. I named it "Inappropriate Laughing Problem" and it's a problem because sometimes, laughing makes things worse (like when it's inappropriate!)

    I've heard it said that "comedy is tragedy + time" and if that's true, we better hope we don't laugh ourselves to death.

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    Default Re: Exposing Yourself To Malevolence

    I think, or at least suspect, that many of us are here primarily because of the direct intervention of malevolent forces, either periodically, regularly, or god forbid tragically...that shaped our lives in certain predictable ways and lead to being guided to Avalon for protection, understanding, fellowship, and succor.
    If not now, then when?

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    Default Re: Exposing Yourself To Malevolence

    Quote Posted by petra (here)

    I laughed at hyena style - that's me sometimes, and it feels like insanity impending! Laughing is a defense mechanism and it works, but also a way of evasion. I named it "Inappropriate Laughing Problem" and it's a problem because sometimes, laughing makes things worse (like when it's inappropriate!)
    Well, it could be evasive or defensive, but I tend to consider the things I do as more weaponized. Well, this subject anyway.

    This was relatively long-ranged for a laugh and it struck its target, which killed the crass comments for a month. I'm not sure if it will hold out much longer, but, a month's service out of a verbal boomerang is considered a success.

    I would really describe it as stalking or hunting things with the intensity of a wild animal or a psycho like Hannibal Lecter. Some of those are the "right moment" for an unusual outburst, and yet some of it will also be opportunities like the aggressive security guy discovering humanity. I think it is actually the same thing as hunter-killer mentality, except it is under control and used for other purposes.

    It is why the Russian strategy makes sense to me: the enemy is conflict.

    Fortunately I have never had the need to injure anyone. I have broken up a number of fights, the last being against two pit bulls.

    So that's not a major aspect of existence, but the psychological or verbal equivalent seems to pop up almost anywhere you go. I suppose that is because this is a barbarian civilization.

    Actually I have two extraordinarily common details as examples. So as an adult, I am talking about the workforce, and by this, I don't mean being in an office, I mean being in the middle of a bunch of people. For instance the last couple of things I have done involve what I guess you call four star food service, so that can be the example, but it happens anywhere else.

    You take three seconds or you say two sentences and you get:

    "Hurry up!"

    Now first of all thanks mister walking heart attack, and second of all, I cannot think of a more unhelpful, useless thing to say. I mean, it might help somewhere the speed limit is twenty miles an hour faster than you think it is, but I mean really. It's like this person is about to burst. How, exactly, is this comment supposed to be motivational?

    The other one is simply:

    "No!"

    Isn't that a button-pusher? Isn't it for a child with their hand in the cookie jar? There are actually quite a few ways to get someone to change what they are doing without needing to spazz. Plus then with all this whining it makes it sound like you cannot control your business, which you can't, because you don't know how to interact.

    I have controlled bunches of people for long periods of time, and hardly ever did anything like those two common instances.

    It isn't exactly malevolence, but it is kind of a fore-runner, a pile of unnecessary garbage messing up the atmosphere. The real foul talkers of course start at this level and go who knows where. One time I tried to provoke one of them by throwing a large cockroach on the guy, but all he did was yell at me, and, I guess, I did hit one of them that called my girlfriend a heifer, although I managed to deflect the blow to a non-damaging target because it would have required facial reconstruction, having thrown a roundhouse elbow to where the glasses meet the bridge of the nose. Deer in headlights. Foul talking boss first thing in the morning would have definitely been a bloody, discarded heap. So you see what I mean, if "I", if "someone", were to snap over the stupid nonsense, in most cases, the "big" person would be the one destroyed.

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    Default Re: Exposing Yourself To Malevolence

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    I think, or at least suspect, that many of us are here primarily because of the direct intervention of malevolent forces, either periodically, regularly, or god forbid tragically...that shaped our lives in certain predictable ways and lead to being guided to Avalon for protection, understanding, fellowship, and succor.
    That pretty much sums things up for me, Ernie. I made a vow to myself too, to stop "writing off" weirdness as "nothing" (in other words - don't fall back asleep!!)

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    I would really describe it as stalking or hunting things with the intensity of a wild animal or a psycho like Hannibal Lecter. Some of those are the "right moment" for an unusual outburst, and yet some of it will also be opportunities like the aggressive security guy discovering humanity. I think it is actually the same thing as hunter-killer mentality, except it is under control and used for other purposes.

    It is why the Russian strategy makes sense to me: the enemy is conflict.

    Fortunately I have never had the need to injure anyone. I have broken up a number of fights, the last being against two pit bulls.
    Shaberon you're unintentionally making me laugh even more - you make it sound like YOU are some kind of weapon. It's funny because I remember being convinced my purpose was to be a weapon (with no will of my own), but now I can look back at that and laugh too. Everything is a weapon..... (ha ha ha)

    I'm shocked you mention Hannibal Lecter. What a piece of work, that one! My friend's started watching the TV series, and as entertaining as he's finding it to be, he told me that it seems like show is "glorifying" Hannibal, which is kind of stomach turning. I don't think I could stomach that one.

    What really gets stomach turning is when I start feeling sorry for Hannibal, or some other sicko. I guess that is what happens when I expose myself to malevolence... I end up pitying it.
    Last edited by petra; 19th August 2019 at 11:57.

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