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Thread: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

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    United States Avalon Member thepainterdoug's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    ARMOR/ I had a dragonfly land on the edge of my computer while outside writing, and then fly away and return 3 times . It even let me touch it. When my mom passed, 3 years ago a dragonfly flew right into my coffee cup . I think we share love here, but its similar to bright light, in that those who have crossed over speak of an immensely brighter light yet soft on the eyes. Its levels , and we here in this density are at a lower level in all we experience in comparison.

    Greybeard. Don't want to put pressure on you, lol , but your a very wise soul! I gain and enjoy from all you offer.

    Herve/ thanks, great insights.

    Course in Miracles speaks to much of this. But Kelly , and others like her crossed the mountain and came back tell us all whats on the other side .

    This is a great gift to us all as we are all trying to see for ourselves, many taking more difficult paths, many finding a trail that works. On a personal level, my sister who has messed her life up with drugs, got AIDS and now Kidney failure has beat herself up so badly making a judgement about herself as " being bad". We all have done this to varying degrees.

    Well she should of passed on about 10 times over the past 38 years, but just celebrated her 60th Birthday! 38 years with HIV. Doctors wanter her on dialysis 2 years ago. She refused, went on hospice to die and regained her health to a large degree .Seems "God"wants her here.

    I shared much of the NDE with her and many others and showed her, the labels, the judgement is our doing. It was all mapped out, like actors taking on roles in a stage production. She's doing pretty well now and gets it.

    Thanks everyone, those I did not mention as well for all your input.

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    Finland Avalon Member Wind's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    Quote Posted by Aragorn (here)
    Just because the Prime Creator is a loveless entity doesn't have to mean that we have to become loveless entities.
    Although I do agree with many of your other points, with this I can't because it's not so. God is love in it's purest form and the blissful state of experiencing it is beyond any words or thoughts. God is love and God is good so in that case he/it is biased to a degree, but I'm not sure if God could be even called an entity. Brahman is beyond any human words or ideas. Ultimately yes, it is also beyond good and evil.

    The whole point of existence is love and because of God's love we are here and we are to learn more about unconditional love.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    The videos are a great find thepainterdoug--much appreciated
    Old and grey--smiling.
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Avalon Member Rich's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    Quote Posted by Ratszinger (here)
    After this night I've left my body so often in my sleep that when I began
    sirdipswitch suggested that when we are out of body we should not mess around and immediately call our High Self. I can say from my own experience that it is possible to meet him/her!
    It is a joke to think that time can come to circumvent eternity. ~ACIM

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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    Quote Posted by Aragorn (here)
    Quote Posted by XelNaga (here)
    Dear Aragorn,

    I really like your explanations and metaphors. Some similar things I've heard before, some I haven't, but I must say that it was one really interesting and thought provoking post. Great job, good sir

    If you do not mind me asking, where did you get all of this from?

    Or is it your personal knowing?

    Thanks in advance..
    Well, parts of it are constructed from knowledge I have gathered through external sources ─ e.g. quantum physics ─ but the rest is pretty much based upon self-knowledge and analysis of my own being.

    As I said, I have always been different from other people in how I have always felt this "oneness" of everything, all throughout my life.

    There is a backstory to this ─ a reason as to why I am different, and this has been confirmed by several unrelated psychics ─ but I'd rather not get into that here and now. In fact, I don't even like talking about it anymore, because I have been met with ridicule, even here within this alternative community, and certainly out there in the mainstream world.

    Well that's a shame, I'm sure your story would be interesting to hear.

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    Avalon Member Rich's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    Btw great find painterdoug, only watched first part but will watch the rest later, I think this should be right on topic:

    From ACIM Chapter 27

    The "Hero" of the Dream

    The body is the central figure in the dreaming of the world. There is no dream without it, nor does it exist without the dream in which it acts as if it were a person to be seen and be believed. It takes the central place in every dream, which tells the story of how it was made by other bodies, born into the world outside the body, lives a little while and dies, to be united in the dust with other bodies dying like itself. In the brief time allotted it to live, it seeks for other bodies as its friends and enemies. Its safety is its main concern. Its comfort is its guiding rule. It tries to look for pleasure, and avoid the things that would be hurtful. Above all, it tries to teach itself its pains and joys are different and can be told apart.

    The dreaming of the world takes many forms, because the body seeks in many ways to prove it is autonomous and real. It puts things on itself that it has bought with little metal discs or paper strips the world proclaims as valuable and real. It works to get them, doing senseless things, and tosses them away for senseless things it does not need and does not even want. It hires other bodies, that they may protect it and collect more senseless things that it can call its own. It looks about for special bodies that can share its dream. Sometimes it dreams it is a conqueror of bodies weaker than itself. But in some phases of the dream, it is the slave of bodies that would hurt and torture it.

    The body's serial adventures, from the time of birth to dying are the theme of every dream the world has ever had. The "hero" of this dream will never change, nor will its purpose. Though the dream itself takes many forms, and seems to show a great variety of places and events wherein its "hero" finds itself, the dream has but one purpose, taught in many ways. This single lesson does it try to teach again, and still again, and yet once more; that it is cause and not effect. And you are its effect, and cannot be its cause.
    Thus are you not the dreamer, but the dream. And so you wander idly in and out of places and events that it contrives. That this is all the body does is true, for it is but a figure in a dream. But who reacts to figures in a dream unless he sees them as if they were real? The instant that he sees them as they are they have no more effects on him, because he understands he gave them their effects by causing them and making them seem real.
    How willing are you to escape effects of all the dreams the world has ever had? Is it your wish to let no dream appear to be the cause of what it is you do? Then let us merely look upon the dream's beginning, for the part you see is but the second part, whose cause lies in the first. No one asleep and dreaming in the world remembers his attack upon himself. No one believes there really was a time when he knew nothing of a body, and could never have conceived this world as real. He would have seen at once that these ideas are one illusion, too ridiculous for anything but to be laughed away. How serious they now appear to be! And no one can remember when they would have met with laughter and with disbelief. We can remember this, if we but look directly at their cause. And we will see the grounds for laughter, not a cause for fear.

    Let us return the dream he gave away unto the dreamer, who perceives the dream as separate from himself and done to him. Into eternity, where all is one, there crept a tiny, mad idea, at which the Son of God remembered not to laugh. In his forgetting did the thought become a serious idea, and possible of both accomplishment and real effects. Together, we can laugh them both away, and understand that time cannot intrude upon eternity. It is a joke to think that time can come to circumvent eternity, which means there is no time.

    A timelessness in which is time made real; a part of God that can attack itself; a separate brother as an enemy; a mind within a body all are forms of circularity whose ending starts at its beginning, ending at its cause. The world you see depicts exactly what you thought you did. Except that now you think that what you did is being done to you. The guilt for what you thought is being placed outside yourself, and on a guilty world that dreams your dreams and thinks your thoughts instead of you. It brings its vengeance, not your own. It keeps you narrowly confined within a body, which it punishes because of all the sinful things the body does within its dream. You have no power to make the body stop its evil deeds because you did not make it, and cannot control its actions nor its purpose nor its fate.

    The world but demonstrates an ancient truth; you will believe that others do to you exactly what you think you did to them. But once deluded into blaming them you will not see the cause of what they do, because you want the guilt to rest on them. How childish is the petulant device to keep your innocence by pushing guilt outside yourself, but never letting go! It is not easy to perceive the jest when all around you do your eyes behold its heavy consequences, but without their trifling cause. Without the cause do its effects seem serious and sad indeed. Yet they but follow. And it is their cause that follows nothing and is but a jest.

    In gentle laughter does the Holy Spirit perceive the cause, and looks not to effects. How else could He correct your error, who have overlooked the cause entirely? He bids you bring each terrible effect to Him that you may look together on its foolish cause and laugh with Him a while. You judge effects, but He has judged their cause. And by His judgment are effects removed. Perhaps you come in tears. But hear Him say, "My brother, holy Son of God, behold your idle dream, in which this could occur. "And you will leave the holy instant with your laughter and your brother's joined with His.

    The secret of salvation is but this: that you are doing this unto yourself. No matter what the form of the attack, this still is true. Whoever takes the role of enemy and of attacker, still is this the truth. Whatever seems to be the cause of any pain and suffering you feel, this is still true. For you would not react at all to figures in a dream you knew that you were dreaming. Let them be as hateful and as vicious as they may, they could have no effect on you unless you failed to recognize it is your dream.

    This single lesson learned will set you free from suffering, whatever form it takes. The Holy Spirit will repeat this one inclusive lesson of deliverance
    until it has been learned, regardless of the form of suffering that brings you pain. Whatever hurt you bring to Him He will make answer with this very simple truth. For this one answer takes away the cause of every form of sorrow and of pain. The form affects His answer not at all, for He would teach you but the single cause of all of them, no matter what their form. And you will understand that miracles reflect the simple statement, " I have done this thing, and it is this I would undo."
    Bring, then, all forms of suffering to Him Who knows that every one is like the rest. He sees no differences where none exists, and He will teach you how each one is caused. None has a different cause from all the rest, and all of them are easily undone by but a single lesson truly learned. Salvation is a secret you have kept but from yourself. The universe proclaims it so. Yet to its witnesses you pay no heed at all. For they attest the thing you do not want to know. They seem to keep it secret from you. Yet you need but learn you chose but not to listen, not to see.

    How differently will you perceive the world when this is recognized! When you forgive the world your guilt, you will be free of it. Its innocence does not demand your guilt, nor does your guiltlessness rest on its sins. This is the obvious; a secret kept from no one but yourself. And it is this that has maintained you separate from the world, and kept your brother separate from you. Now need you but to learn that both of you are innocent or guilty. The one thing that is impossible is that you be unlike each other; that they both be true. This is the only secret yet to learn. And it will be no secret you are healed.
    It is a joke to think that time can come to circumvent eternity. ~ACIM

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    United States Avalon Member thepainterdoug's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    rich prior to logging on this morning, I was thinking how Kelly is really describing what the CIM says . Then I find your post here! THANK YOU

    I will read entire later today

    For everyone, Im posting Kellys web site with many of her videos. I have not watched all but many are quite good. https://www.youtube.com/user/NurtureSoul/videos

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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    "The guilt for what you thought is being placed in an outside world, a guilty world. A world of your own expectation that brings its vengeance, or it's love not your own. It keeps you confined within a vessel, which it punishes or embraces because of all the sinful things or beautiful things the body does within its dream."


    The above slams home with me.
    You have no power to make the body stop its evil deeds because you did not make it in the first place, and you cannot control its actions nor its purpose nor its fate all you can do is observe what you thought you do/did thinking all the while that it's being done to you! Psalm 82-6 says, "You are Gods! I said you are all Gods of the most high"

    Is God observing what he thought he did thinking all the while it's being done to him? Is God as amnesia cursed as we? Or are we simply witnessing what God already did sitting now in his place as he did it thinking it is being done to us? Is it our own doing from want when we asked to experience what God experienced? Could this be our gift?

    Imagine. To witness one of the lives God lived where we actually have nothing to say about anything at all, all we can do is observe. In that world then nothing is your fault. Nothing you do or have done is or was wrong because it was not you that did this you just observe what God did during his time which you get to now witness? The sphere of our influence has how much reach? Do we really control or change anything if it was all already done, and we only go through the motions, the experience as we think or see that they happened thinking all the while that an outside force is upon us or that we are doing it? If I pick chocolate over vanilla did I really pick? If true that no I didn't pick the chocolate, God did and I had nothing to say about it then letting go into the experience is the only answer. Surrender to the observation knowing it's not your body, it isn't your life, your time, or your experience or pain or pleasure really it is a replay of Gods experience you get to now witness. No guilt. No blame. No sins. No need or desire for forgiveness. In the end all you can do is breath and not resist. Just let it ride.
    The genius consistently stands out from the masses in that he unconsciously anticipates truths of which the population as a whole only later becomes conscious! Speech-circa 1937

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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    I think to keep love alive is important in this day and age. If we are mere mini creators then we must comply to a higher state of being or fail. People who become suicidal may be going through experiences to see and learn from that mistake on a deep level, however, there are situations with voices in the mind or even your own failings that will launch a way to want to do that.
    When I work with Angels the first thing that they told me was that energy has no wrong or right but it's what you change it into and use it for.

    So that point is correct and that would make sense when you have people fighting like a checkers board dark v light but both live at the same time.
    GOD is love he has to have had love in him or her to create love from the start. So maybe this is just a big lump of continuous energy which resides in love who knows.
    I don't think anyone is selfish wanting to die or should I judge .. no but I think it's selfish when the creator chooses us for a mission and life purpose to come down to earth in trust that with a meat suit you can deliver the mission that your heart and soul knows about.
    that's all I will say on that turf. Angel

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    The videos are clear--you are already perfect--there is nothing to learn--only to experience.
    Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    United States Avalon Member johnf's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    So, am I blessed or cursed to seem to be stuck in this body with all the self pity/suicidal ideation programs running in it?
    I think I neglected to make sure readers understood that the experience I related about a failed suicide experience, (it wasn't really an attempt) resulted in no harm to my body, no distressed parents or other loved ones. Yet I can't help but feel a little jealousy, (which is just another program)

    when watching Kelly's videos because her experience seemed to run a lot deeper than mine, and the result seems to be more complete than mine.
    I would like to be happier about the prospect of sticking around till the program runs it course, but I am entirely convinced that my doing so will be part of triggering others remembrances. At one point someone pointed out that my short comings, as well as the actual mistakes I made in life all had the potential of growth for others as part of the package, and that made a big difference for me.
    There seems to be value in experiencing being the creator, the created, and the link between the two all at the same instant that cancels out

    any lasting suffering that occurred along the way.


    John
    "I am fascinated by religion. (That's a completely different thing from believing in it!)" Douglas Adams

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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching




    Many people who are ignorant about the facts may not even notice that they
    have died, though most will enter conditions which are quite different in many
    ways and not at all in others. Having traveled via Out-of-Body experiences,
    brought about by a regime of deep meditation, into other dimensional realities
    over more than a forty year period, Jurgen Ziewe has kept detailed notes about
    the afterlife states he encountered and recorded them in two of his books:
    "Multidimensional Man" & "Vistas of Infinity - How to enjoy Life when you are Dead"
    Last edited by Rich; 2nd September 2019 at 07:15.
    It is a joke to think that time can come to circumvent eternity. ~ACIM

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    United States Avalon Member thepainterdoug's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    "Many people who are ignorant about the facts may not even notice that they
    have died, though most will enter conditions which are quite different in many
    ways and not at all in others."


    that explains many people in my town.

    I have seen an interview with Jurgen on Skeptico, was one of my favorites ever on his show. thanks, will watch

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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    Quote Posted by Aragorn (here)
    There is a backstory to this ─ a reason as to why I am different, and this has been confirmed by several unrelated psychics ─ but I'd rather not get into that here and now. In fact, I don't even like talking about it anymore, because I have been met with ridicule, even here within this alternative community, and certainly out there in the mainstream world.
    I understand word by word what you means. If I'm not mistaken, I guess you are talking about "individuality" that can appears be Different, but I think in this context, is just a way of expressing your originality (individual of course, that is differentiated by definition).

    Originality it's the Cat Jump that able to Create, because the individual sense of perception with a corresponding (original) form of expression, both together, can make things be Different, when you work on them.

    Be individual it's a rewarding State of Art that doesn't run out, and being ridiculed for it, serves to give you a sense of your originality is working well. Don't worry much about this, but be careful to not throw your better Pearls to Pigs (metaphor)

    ---

    I'm bookmarking posts (#8) and (#16), because I think they offer a great starting point to the forum members develop a comom sense about the Soul, Conscienciousness, Spirit, pehaps also the subjacent Bodies (physic, psych, mental, energetic, etc)

    So, i ask if Aragorn agree that opening this subject would be a good idea, as an attempt to create a common sense based on what you described
    Last edited by rogparan; 2nd September 2019 at 21:38. Reason: bad english
    here I am, but I don't belong to this world
    So, nothing there are here belongs to me.

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    Avalon Member Aragorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    Quote Posted by rogparan (here)
    Quote Posted by Aragorn (here)
    There is a backstory to this ─ a reason as to why I am different, and this has been confirmed by several unrelated psychics ─ but I'd rather not get into that here and now. In fact, I don't even like talking about it anymore, because I have been met with ridicule, even here within this alternative community, and certainly out there in the mainstream world.
    I understand word by word what you means. If I'm not mistaken, I guess you are talking about "individuality" that can appears be Different, but I think in this context, is just a way of expressing your originality (individual of course, that is differentiated by definition).

    Originality it's the Cat Jump that able to Create, because the individual sense of perception with a corresponding (original) form of expression, both together, can make things be Different, when you work on them.

    Be individual it's a rewarding State of Art that doesn't run out, and being ridiculed for it, serves to give you a sense of your originality is working well. Don't worry much about this, but be careful to not throw your better Pearls to Pigs (metaphor)

    ---

    I'm bookmarking posts (#8) and (#16), because I think they offer a great starting point to the forum members develop a comom sense about the Soul, Conscienciousness, Spirit, pehaps also the subjacent Bodies (physic, psych, mental, energetic, etc)

    So, i ask if Aragorn agree that opening this subject would be a good idea, as an attempt to create a common sense based on what you described
    Well, as I said, I'd rather not open that can of worms again, but I will just say the following...

    For those of you familiar with the late Dolores Cannon and her books about "the three waves of volunteers", the thing is that Dolores herself got her data mixed up because of the sheer flood of information she was receiving from the people whom she was regressing, and so she ended up lumping in the Wanderers ─ i.e. souls that had already incarnated before, whether here on Earth or on other planets ─ with the three-wavers.

    However, her initial information was the correct one, i.e. the members of what she called "the three waves of volunteers" have never incarnated before anywhere in the universe, and will also never incarnate again anywhere after they die from their mortal life here on Earth, simply because they are not the kind of souls that can agree with learning by making mistakes. The concept of making mistakes and of compromising on their innocence is intolerable to them.

    And so here it is...: I happen to be one of those "three-wavers". Concretely, I am of the first wave, which started arriving ─ i.e. being born ─ in the early 1960s, and which kept on coming in until the mid-to-late 1970s. Then, in the early 1980s to roughly the mid 1990s, the second wave came in.

    The third wave came in after that, up until approximately the year 2012 ─ don't ask me why the year 2012 would have been significant in that regard, because to me it merely marked the end of the previous baktun of the Mayan calendar and the start of a new one. I suppose it's possible that there would be some cosmic significance to it, but if there is, then I don't know.

    There is also some overlap between the arrival of the "three waves", in that some of us belonging to the first or second wave arrived during the time of the second or third wave respectively, and vice versa. Some of us were late to their own party, and others were a little early.

    Anyway, I would rather not make this thread about myself, because I don't like being at the center of attention ─ I'm actually rather introverted in many respects ─ and this is also not what this thread was about in the first place. There are several threads about the Dolores Cannon material here at Project Avalon already from before my departure in March 2015 ─ we even had a (now already long derelict) invitation-only community group here at the forum ─ and there are one or two short threads about it over at The One Truth as well, with some cross-references to yet other threads.

    All I will still say about this subject is that I have no idea how many of us there are ─ whether of the first wave or in total ─ but the first wave's purpose is that of way-showers and teachers. We came here to set an example, so that the "real" humans would find inspiration for bringing about the changes humanity needs in order to save both themselves and the planet. The butterfly effect.

    I believe the second wave's purpose could be more energetic, i.e. that they would impart an uplifting energy onto the people around them without having to actually do or say anything. I have no idea what the purpose of the third wave is, but I personally think they may end up as advisers, given that Dolores said that they were all ready and equipped to deal with the needed changes to society.

    Many Wanderers have arrived here during the same time span as the "three-wavers", and this is what got Dolores confused, but the Wanderers ─ whatever their motives may have been for coming to Earth ─ are not part of the "three-wavers" proper, neither in purpose nor in nature. They are generally wiser than "native humans" and they will often also have very clear recollection of their past lives, but they are much more like "native humans" in terms of their souls than the "three-wavers" are. That which would be "human" about the "three-wavers" was all learned during our stay here on Earth. We did not bring that part with us from elsewhere.

    For the first wave, arriving here was also much harder than for the second and third wave because of the very reactionary and conservative cultural climate we arrived in. We were by no means prepared for the hostility we'd find here, and many of us just couldn't survive here ─ literally, because they ended up taking their own lives.

    So, there you have it.
    Last edited by Aragorn; 2nd September 2019 at 23:16. Reason: typos

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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    Rich/ its a very perplexing interview, almost like a world of limbo he describes , forgive my catholic reference. But his analogy to being in a dream and accepting all the weirdness as normal, makes it real world relatable for me . yet so many questions about well, whats next? need to listen again but thanks for posting

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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    Jurgen Ziewe says that NDE do not paint the complete picture of where we go after death.
    They are short and often it revolves around what happened on earth and about going back to earth.
    To actually see where we go after death we would have to visit the places/dimensions where people live and spend their time.

    That's in my own words but he says something to that effect, don't remember where exactly I read it.

    More about life after death from Jürgen:
    https://www.multidimensionalman.com/...afterlife.html
    It is a joke to think that time can come to circumvent eternity. ~ACIM

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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    Quote Posted by Rich (here)
    Jurgen Ziewe says that NDE do not paint the complete picture of where we go after death.
    They are short and often it revolves around what happened on earth and about going back to earth.
    To actually see where we go after death we would have to visit the places/dimensions where people live and spend their time.

    That's in my own words but he says something to that effect, don't remember where exactly I read it.

    More about life after death from Jürgen:
    https://www.multidimensionalman.com/...afterlife.html
    Think thats correct Rich.
    "In my Fathers house are many mansions" --Jesus quote. (Many realms)
    The last thoughts pre death are important.
    So you get what your expectations are.
    But its temporary--once you have used up your credit--Karma then back you come.
    Whatever desire you had that was unfulfilled will draw you back for another incarnation.
    When enlightenment has occurred thats different--then no further reincarnation and full return to the energy of One happens. (Not that you really ever separated from That)
    We are in duality, Maya till this happens.
    Maya caries on through NDE and return to Earth.
    Thats as best my understanding.

    Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    Chris, always like your take on things The Kelly NDE says were not here in school, no Karma, no right or wrong. We are here to experience this duality, this 3 d dense experience and its separation, and thats it. To breath and don't resist.

    now real boots on the ground living, this seems impossible for me, unless in relatively blissful, prestige conditions. But when the s---t hits the fan, its then that it seems impossible to live and carry out. And this is true of so much enlightenment talk, that its all pretty doable when things are relatively ok.

    How does one see , and accept an actual disaster or a true hurtful act by someone, and take it in with calm and understanding of these principals?

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    Default Re: An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
    Chris, always like your take on things The Kelly NDE says were not here in school, no Karma, no right or wrong. We are here to experience this duality, this 3 d dense experience and its separation, and thats it. To breath and don't resist.

    now real boots on the ground living, this seems impossible for me, unless in relatively blissful, prestige conditions. But when the s---t hits the fan, its then that it seems impossible to live and carry out. And this is true of so much enlightenment talk, that its all pretty doable when things are relatively ok.

    How does one see , and accept an actual disaster or a true hurtful act by someone, and take it in with calm and understanding of these principals?
    Doug, I think the point is not to avoid/evade/suppress being hurt, being scared, being up-ended, but to have the understanding that neither the events happening nor the emotions being engendered by them -- are who I truly am.

    In other words, don't confuse the character with the actor, the play with the Wider reality beyond the stage.

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