The Question of God and the Nature of God

[greybeard]

The totality --all of it.
Chris

[Peter UK]

Posted by petra (here)

Posted by Peter UK (here)

Posted by petra (here)

For the nature of God, the best I have is "God is Everything, God is Everywhere"

Actually that's more profound than it looks on paper.

If someone asks is THIS God? You can say yes.

If they then ask is THAT God? You can also say yes.

If they then ask Can you tell me what isn't God?

You can look at them with a blank stare as though they have tried to code something into the computer and it's not accepted because of an error in the programme.

Hah ha ha ha ha!!
Come to think of it, I think I WAS aiming to "break" something... I aimed to break the thing in my head which keeps asking me questions that I don't have the answer to! PS: Didn't work

I got that answer from my mother. My thoughts were telling me to ask a particular friend (who's definition was much more technical), but then another set of thoughts said "Ask your mother" and that's what she said - word for word.

Yes, sometimes it's just about home cookin', it helps preserve the balance.

[Iyakum]

@petra,
Thank you for your clear words, your answer to the question of the nature of God. I still smile about your answer very well formulated. But when I think of today and of my childhood, there is still the threshold that there are few people who really say what they think. You are one of those who is not afraid to question God. A few weeks ago I had a thought, I asked myself a question. What if I asked God to vacate his place? What if I or another person had the chance to face God? What then, would I ask him questions, as an example about us humans, the suffering, the wars, why he watches and does not intervene? would I dare ask him such questions? The more I thought about it, the more absurd was the thought of asking God. I would not ask him any questions, I would tell him it's enough, you can go. Get on your way to another universe, you've sat on the throne long enough now, free the place. For me or others who think like me. It is quite simple if you are omnipotent, leave your powers, your power to someone else.

I also think that God has a sense of humor, even a very big one. He seems to enjoy it when we puzzle who or what he is. When the earth was formed and she was still quite young, there were already living beings at the time. Then at some point other creatures came to it, but it took a long time before the first humans came down from the trees. They were curious to explore their surroundings, it took a long time for humans to develop a language until they developed an imagination. I do not believe that they believed in God before, so we could not accept the question of God through our belief in an almighty being that we have created. Thus, God must have existed before.

I do not believe in a particular religion, I am Christian and Protestant, but that means absolutely nothing. But when I think of all the different religions, how many there are and how they came into being, I ask myself where the origin of all this is. As an example, every story, every legend and myth has an origin and therefore a true core. And so it is with the nature of God. Sometime, somehow, somewhere the nature of God has begun. But the more we think about it, the more we move away in search of an answer.

Ok, at the end, a question for those who choose to answer my post. What would you do ? If you get the chance for meeting God ?

[greybeard]

This video covers various perceptions of God --types of religions--God centred ---Self inquire approach.
Done with insight and humour

Is Advaita true? Self-centered vs God-centered ~ Swami Sarvapriyananda ~ VedantaZenOneness

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=mJUByfcjPB4

[petra]

Posted by Iyakum (here)
Ok, at the end, a question for those who choose to answer my post. What would you do ? If you get the chance for meeting God ?

That'd be a cool topic for a posting!

I feel like I've already "met" God in a way, but try to answer anyway. What happened when I "met God" ?

I felt like I met God, and when it happened I facepalmed for about 5 minutes straight, because I was so embarrassed.
My Thoughts: So... is there anything you'd like to say to God?
Me: No (folds arms). Go away (lol)

[greybeard]

Depends on your concept of God.
For me God is everything--there is no where God is not.
The flowers the animals-people--you name it.
If your belief is that God is in the heavens then that is different.
Christ said Heaven is within.
Chris

[johnf]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Depends on your concept of God.
For me God is everything--there is no where God is not.
The flowers the animals-people--you name it.
If your belief is that God is in the heavens then that is different.
Christ said Heaven is within.
Chris

You have two posts that kind of sum up my basic present conclusion, that in essence "God" is everything, all that is. It is impossible to ponder on this idea for long before one gets to one's personal exceptions, wait not : and in this space the tangle of emotions we tend to label ego fills in the most immediate unforgiven person, place thing, or event. I think many in this forum can imagine reality as a hologram that starts as pure conciousness, and accrues layers of form, and increasing opposing energy till we have matter, planetary systems and on at least some of those life forms. In my own experiences that felt like a meeting with the source, there is a moment where that pure awareness flows out of a undefined center that encompasses the body, and meets the forms out side of my body, and at the moment those forms disappear, and somehow the seeds of all those things i recently found to be so real still exists as part of that essence, or emanation. The word love is used a lot in this thread, and I think that love is the first and last action of awareness. And it is an emanation, which is more basic than any identity or subsequent object of any identity.


John

[Cara]

Hafiz has some remarkable poems that hint at the nature of god. Here is one:

God’s Bucket

If this world
Was not held in God’s bucket

How could an ocean stand upside down
On its head and never lose a drop?

If your life was not contained in God’s cup

How could you be so brave and laugh,
Dance in the face of death?

Hafiz,
There is a private chamber in the soul
That knows a great secret

Of which no tongue can speak.

Your existence my dear, O love my dear,
Has been sealed and marked

“Too sacred,” “too sacred,” by the Beloved—
To ever end!

Indeed God
Has written a thousand promises
All over your heart

That say,
Life, life, life,
Is far too sacred to
Ever end.

[greybeard]

I honestly dont think it matters what you believe God to be,what religion you belong to.
God believes in you.
Chris
Ps all these beliefs meet in Divine Love, well most of them.

[Robert deTree]

Thank you Star Mariner for starting this thread and for sharing those wise human words. There seems to be less over bearing human-ness in these words than in many teachers words ! Silver Birch's first line seems to hit at the core of the issue and overall he seems to be in line with one Dude.

You maybe interested in an ETs (Dude's) opinion on God here (Episode 4-6 of Dude's Maxims) :
https://anchor.fm/bright-garlick/epi...-Part-1-e544vn
https://anchor.fm/bright-garlick/epi...-Part-2-e5454k
https://anchor.fm/bright-garlick/epi...-Part-3-e545kh

[Iloveyou]

One of the essential truths I‘ve come to accept is that in anything we may encounter - from the most mundane daily-life actions to the big and complex concepts - there‘s a fake version and a true version of everything. I‘ve come across that here on PA first (via Jay Weidner).

There‘s the timeless true god/goddess, source of life, pure love who knows no negation, no doubt, no relativism. And there‘s the fake ancient cruel and judging, condemning god(s) - originating from where? when? - the master(s) who demand obedience above all and who the monotheistic religions are based on.

It‘s not always easy to differentiate both as often the fake version is so close to the true one and they almost overlap. Almost.

I was impressed with the following presentation of Bible quotes. They can be read both ways.

True: A genuine loving mother who knows her child’s every breath and impulse from the first moment while knowing and respecting the child as a sovereign and all powerful soul at the same time. A mother who would give her life for her child anytime.

Fake: An all monitoring, dominating authority who rules by manipulation, empty promises, by fear, by subtle threats and ‚conditional love‘. Who demands sacrifice.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=FCb0H9CaBB8

[Fredenit]

God seems like different things to different people and to different races of beings in the Universe, but the essential experience that ignites the desire for God, the awareness of God and the relationship with God is the same everywhere. This religious impulse, the impulse towards union with God, is universal. Though it seems remarkably absent in some cultures and aberrantly expressed in others, the impulse is the same. What God is must be expressed in terms of your range of experience and your capacity for experience. In the Universe, God is so total and complete that any definition would always falter and fail.

Therefore, let us say that God is the experience of total relationship. You can experience this for a moment here and there and for longer periods should you prepare in The Way of the Great Spirit. This is an experience which can both be translated from one world to another and shared and demonstrated from one being to another, bypassing and transcending all divergences of race, culture, temperament and environment. This is God. God for you is God in action. God for you is an experience that is unlike any other experience in life, yet this experience gives meaning to all of your other experiences.

In the Universe, God is complete. In your world, God is a God of your world, a God of your race, a God of your history, a God of your temperament, a God of your fears and aspirations, a God of your great heroes, a God of your great tragedies, a God that is related to your tribe and your time. But in the Universe, God is so much greater, so complete—beyond the definitions of any race, beyond the history of any race, beyond the temperament, fears and aspirations of any race, beyond the grasp of any individual or collective philosophy. And yet, you find God in a pure impulse, in a timeless moment of recognition, in the desire to act beyond the sphere of your own personal interests and motives, in the recognition of another, in the motive to give, in the inexplicable experience of affinity. These are translatable. This is God in action. For you, this is God.

We must think of God now in the Universe—not a human God, not a God of your written history, not a God of your trials and tribulations, but a God for all time, for all races, for all dimensions, for those who are primitive and for those who are advanced, for those who think like you and for those who think so differently, for those who believe and for those for whom belief is inexplicable. This is God in the Universe. And this is where you must begin.

To believe in the God of the Universe is too great an attempt, because you will realize that your race is small and the Universe is great. Here you will be focusing on a God not of your world and of your time but a God of all worlds and all times. What kind of theology or philosophy can embody a God of this magnitude? What kind of human speculation and human ethics can encompass a God so complete as this?

Yet your theology of God must be the theology of God’s work in this world. And if it is true, accurate and beneficial, it must focus on the experience of the Great Spirit. The Great Spirit is the beginning of religion. The Great Spirit is the completion of religion. The Great Spirit is the evidence of God and the evidence that you are a part of a greater life beyond the limits of your time, beyond the boundaries of your race and beyond the confines of your present intellectual ability. Here there is no creation story. There are no heroes. There is no end of time. There is only the total experience of relationship, which is the experience of the Great Spirit and the experience of God.

What is a human religion without a creation story, without a hero to worship and without a culmination of human experience? What human religion can focus on a God of this magnitude, whose sole interest is not your world alone, whose sole concern is not your daily experience, whose awareness is so complete and whose beneficence blesses those who are so unlike you? What then is the model for human behavior? What is the basis for ethics or morality in a God of the Universe? For this you must venture beyond a childhood religion and a child’s needs. You must venture beyond the need only for rules and regulations and fantastic stories that are barely believable. You must enter into the experience and the Mystery of life, which is the doorway to God, which is at the very heart of your life and contains the very purpose for your coming here that is unique to you but which you share with all life.

Spirituality in the Universe, there are no heroes. There is no creation story. And there is no culminating experience to bring an end to the difficulties of corporeal life. So, what is religion without these things? These things are tribal in nature. And you are not alone in the Universe in wanting them, in establishing them and in holding to them. Everywhere where religion has taken root and has found expression, races have based their practices and their understanding on their own time, their own history and their own temperament. But beyond this is the experience of God. Beyond this is pure spirituality. This is what you must seek now, for human religion can never embody a God of the Universe. So inexplicable this is because it transcends your requirements for the Divine. Therefore, you must find another way, a more mature way, a more complete approach, a true preparation.

In the Universe, those who have advanced have realized the nature and purpose of God in their respective worlds, but their understanding has gone beyond the comprehension of God’s Will in specific matters, even beyond the concern for the well-being and survival of their race. They have gone beyond these concerns to a greater spirituality, a Spirituality in the Universe—a spirituality of all time and all worlds, a spirituality that is mysterious, that is not defined and embodied in rituals, ideals, beliefs, historical accounts or fantastic images, a spirituality that can be completely translated from one being to another with words or gestures, or without words or gestures.

Spirituality in the Universe, is a spirituality of greater experience, greater perception and greater abilities. In the Universe, you are not saved. You are only developing. In the Universe, you are not condemned. You are only developing. In the Universe, there is no heaven. There is only further involvement and a greater capacity for relationship. In the Universe, there are no local gods and demons fighting spiritual warfare. In the Universe, there are those who know and those who do not know. From their experience come the great difficulties that are posed in life everywhere.


There is so much more to this thread than meets the eye, than meets the mind and even Human experience in its meagre existence.

I have reported this from memory, to the best of my experience. There are some words that are changed to give a clearer captivation. The words Great Spirit have replaced the word Knowledge, and the word Universe has replaced The Greater Community.

And of cause, there is much more to read of this topic, and if you feel inclined, then follow this link to discover the Spirituality of the Greater Community.

https://www.newmessage.org/the-message/volume-2/greater-community-spirituality/what-is-god-3[/URL]

[greybeard]

I think its great that there is so much discussion as to the various questions as to the nature of God.
All I can say is "I make plans and God laughs"
Chris

[East Sun]

the most absurd thing about our existence is our nakedness. We are embarrassed by our nakedness. And that in itself should not be normal to our existence as humans. To me that indicates that we are not what we were intended to be. Or were intended for something else and were rejected and thrown aside.

We need to get our act together or we will perish.

[East Sun]

Forget about religions who have all thro time controlled the masses of us humans. Enough all ready, we are on to you at last,


!

[Words of Joy]

Posted by Iloveyou (here)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=FCb0H9CaBB8

That is beautiful. Thank you for that. I recognize that in full.

Reading the comments in this topic there are a couple of things that come to mind. Regarding the question why God is not stepping in, while there's so much suffering, war, etc. Question is whether we're able to discern whether God is stepping in or not. I'm experiencing he's doing a lot of movement in our reality directly and indirectly. Though I also understand not everyone is able to see that. The reason one would or would not be able to observe this depends on the persons answer to the question near the end of the above video:"My question is..... will you be my child?". Jesus gave the example on how to be a child of God. He asked Peter "Peter, do you love me?" three times. Peter replied: "You know I do". Then Jesus said: "Follow me!" This was intended for anyone looking to be a child of God. Jesus gave all the clues. Though if one doesn't read and try to understand the clues, then following Him in being a child of God is impossible.

Once a person does decide to follow Jesus in becoming/being a child by taking the steps to enter as provided by Jesus, it will have as a result that the "doubt" that an individual might have had will be removed. This is symbolized by the veil that ripped after the crucifixion of Jesus. It symbolizes, that through Jesus death on the cross, we're enabled to establish the communication line with God. Jesus is the only way. Having personally taken the steps Jesus left behind, I experience the lifting of the veil, the reestablishment of communication with God. This ended my doubts.

I do understand the difficulties in trying to connect with God in one's own way and not succeeding. There is a guide for it in the New testament and it needs to be followed. Books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are the best start. It's the way God chose it to be. If one doesn't follow those steps and years of trying on it's own way pass by, then at some point one might think there is no God. Even might get very frustrated by it. And even might look for alternatives. Like for example in the video on Advaita Vedanta, where the person explaining says "Doubt is a problem with God centered religion.". I don't have doubt. Many others don't have doubt. There are many with direct Divine experiences. Though not everyone has this experience. Not even all Christians. I get that too. Though to then look at oneself as the center, will actually keep you away from connecting from what made our souls. We didn't create our own souls. Yes, we are, so we are a certainty. I agree with that aspect of the philosophy and yes our soul is eternal, though while we are in this reality we're still subject to the duality. We can try to escape duality by meditation, by trying to be only love, but if one doesn't become a child of God, then going into the Heavenly realm is out of the question. Also if one fails to understand Gods rules, to make a person loving to His standards for the benefit of all, then one is bound to be disciplined through Gods righteous way of upholding his rules.

When Jesus spoke "follow me", he meant it in regard to his works and the way he went about life: freeing people from spiritual possession, healing people, bringing people back from death, confronting people that are hurting and misleading others. True children of God are called to do the same. THAT is the way that Jesus called to follow. And that is how children of God are recognized. They do good works and miracles happen through their relationship with God, Jesus and the holy Spirit. I'm very careful with who I follow. I always keep this advise from Jesus in my mind: "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them." The "Ferocious Wolf" might sound harsh, but think of the effect it will have if someone misguides a person and the missing of ascension is the result. Then there's a potential of many more lives with possible elements of suffering.

The question I ask myself when I look at so called self-realized individuals: "Is the person doing good works? Is he performing miracles to remove suffering from peoples lives? Is he humble? Does he know and speak of God and His loving ways?" If not, then I know it's not an advanced child of God. I'd like to be clear about this. For most children of God it takes time to learn how to work with the Spirit to perform miracles. I'm not there yet, I have personal hurdles to take, as any child of God in it's own situation. But there are many advanced children of God working with the Spirit performing miracles. Only speaking in theories for me has little value. That's also what being a child of God distinguishes from many other religions or philosophies: The focus is on not only showing love, but also taking action. Action when people are suffering, when people are hurting, when people are sick etc. The focus is on caring for others through actions. Self-realization is not the goal, though will be a result. As a child of God, God will see to that. As God wants the very best for His children, as His children want the best for people around them and people in need. When a person has other people worshipping him, touching or kissing feet, then for me that is a clear sign, the person has not reached enlightenment as I know it. And it definitely is not the "follow me" Jesus intended.

The person in the Advaita Vedanta video mentions:"You are God and God is you", I'd like to ask him:"Where's the fruit of that? Could you produce more?" If what he claims is true, then why not create an extra soul or two? Or create a universe? In this reality under current circumstances we can't do that yet. We are limited in what we can do. (Not without reason. ) Becoming a child of God will stretch the possibilities. And after the body is glorified/evolved as a child of God, then creating a universe will be an option. Though one will have more learning to do. This spiritual evolution is through Gods approval. Never without.

Regarding the question why some Christians don't experience God: Sometimes reading, praying daily and accepting Jesus as Savior isn't sufficient. This is because it is about the choice of the heart. One has to understand the steps, take and live the steps and be fullhearted about it. Not everyone feels 100% about making that commitment. Sometimes a person just wants to live their own life. Sometimes a person is just not fully aware of what it takes to become a child of God. But if one wants to become a child of God, one can become a child of God. By reading what Jesus had to say and understanding with their heart and following, also inviting the holy Spirit into heart and life, for protection and guidance. If one is unable to get to a situation where God is experienced, then I'd suggest to pray to Jesus, ask for help in getting to know Him and the steps, and in the worst case fast and pray, till experience is gained. It took me a year of regular prayer before I started to experience something.

Going into the heavenly realm is quite a milestone after who knows how many reincarnations. It is not an easy phase, the last reincarnation. Jesus mentioned "Two men will be working together in the field; one will be taken, the other left."
That means, that half of the souls will not make it this time, when souls are pulled up to the Heavenly realm before judgment day. (I learned 40% will make it) Some that don't make it will remain on earth and will live, many will die. It's been like this in the past. It's part of the cycle of spiritual growth.

Speaking of the cycle. As we near the end of the cycle, souls from different parts of the universe came/come to earth. I believe that the so called indigo children are here for ascension. Coming also from places where there wasn't as much suffering as here on earth. Possibly having been connected to the spirit of God before, with a destiny of evolving their spirit at the end of the cycle here on earth. I'd like to think of them as holy Spirit sleeper cells. They might be fully unaware of their past life, not understanding why they're here, and at some point are activated by the Spirit. I'm expecting more of that, also people here on Avalon. Would be good to hear from it if such an event takes place.

The key lies within the heart.

[greybeard]

"The person in the Advaita Vedanta video mentions:"You are God and God is you", I'd like to ask him:"Where's the fruit of that? Could you produce more?" If what he claims is true, then why not create an extra soul or two? Or create a universe? In this reality under current circumstances we can't do that yet."
Slobbe wrote.

What Advaita says is that you are Brahman there is nothing but Brahman.
Substitute the word consciousness --that makes it more readily understood what is being said.
So everything is an appearance in consciousness--Brahman alone is real.
It like when we dream--we are so creative--anything can be done --you are the one dreamer but on awakening there is the realization that you were the creator of the dream.

An item can be made of gold--its a ring perhaps--then melted down nothing but gold.
The ring and the gold not a separate thing--only one thing gold.

So in this world only one thing here Self--Brahman, Consciousness--you are That
All the shapes and forms--Maya--come and go the- only reality is you., unchanging eternal awareness

The Infinite can not be known in finite knowledge--not touched heard not available to the senses etc
So Brahman in order to know itself became all without reducing itself.
Think Genesis says much the same.
One unbroken undivided reality and the esence of the Ultimate is love
The peace that passes all understanding--The father and I are One
Advaita means "One without a second"

Sure takes a lot of believing.

Hope that helps--not saying im right, every one entitled to their belief

[Sue (Ayt)]

Posted by greybeard (here)
I think its great that there is so much discussion as to the various questions as to the nature of God.
All I can say is "I make plans and God laughs"
Chris

Me too!


Another poem I've always loved that touches on the nature of God is Auguries of Innocence by William Blake

Auguries of Innocence
BY WILLIAM BLAKE

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour

The entire poem is here: Auguries of Innocence