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Thread: Why are we lying ?

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    Default Re: Why are we lying ?

    Quote Posted by Caliban (here)
    Major lies as discussed above are ultimately damaging. Children deserve to know the truth, even if, at a young age they're told a disorted version to protect their growing minds. Later, they should be given the dignity of the full truth.
    I totally 100% agree with this, and that's why the "rent-a-friend" thing in Japan is making me so mad (ref link)

    People are developing a business based off of lying. It's not just rent-a-friend, you can rent-a-parent too. Sure you can call it acting.... but it's ALSO LYING, because the ones being lied to are not actors. I can't even begin to imagine how pissed the kids are going to be if they eventually find out their family hired an actor to be their parent.

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    Default Re: Why are we lying ?

    Quote Posted by Iyakum (here)
    The country I was in was a fundamentalist Islamic country. However, I did not believe in Islam, I am a Christian.
    Where did this take place and why? You don't have to answer I'm just curious. Sorry to hear about your experience, that cell sounds horrible.
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    Default Re: Why are we lying ?

    Quote Posted by petra (here)

    As for lying to oneself though, there's NEVER good reason for that. People who lie to themselves are just setting themselves up to look like an idiot later on.
    And yet people still do it and not on an infrequent basis.

    I'm referring to denial and what a big part that plays in the psychology of many individuals. Yes, it follows that they may look like an idiot but maybe not half as much as feeling an idiot when the recognition of the game that's been played out is staring them in the face and is no longer capable of being looped for a rerun.


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    Default Re: Why are we lying ?

    Quote Posted by Peter UK (here)
    Quote Posted by petra (here)

    As for lying to oneself though, there's NEVER good reason for that. People who lie to themselves are just setting themselves up to look like an idiot later on.
    And yet people still do it and not on an infrequent basis.

    I'm referring to denial and what a big part that plays in the psychology of many individuals. Yes, it follows that they may look like an idiot but maybe not half as much as feeling an idiot when the recognition of the game that's been played out is staring them in the face and is no longer capable of being looped for a rerun.

    Thanks for that perspective, I feel kind of blinded because I no longer have the ability to lie to myself (at least, I don't think so...)

    Denial is a very important factor since we do it without even realizing. As far as I'm concerned though, denial should be unnecessary! We should not have to lie to ourselves, in order to keep from killing ourselves (worst case scenario)

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    Default Re: Why are we lying ?

    Quote Posted by petra (here)
    Quote Posted by Caliban (here)
    Major lies as discussed above are ultimately damaging. Children deserve to know the truth, even if, at a young age they're told a disorted version to protect their growing minds. Later, they should be given the dignity of the full truth.
    I totally 100% agree with this, and that's why the "rent-a-friend" thing in Japan is making me so mad (ref link)

    People are developing a business based off of lying. It's not just rent-a-friend, you can rent-a-parent too. Sure you can call it acting.... but it's ALSO LYING, because the ones being lied to are not actors. I can't even begin to imagine how pissed the kids are going to be if they eventually find out their family hired an actor to be their parent.
    I'm really shocked by this Petra, I just read the whole interview. I can't believe that's what things have come to. Would that work here in the States? I don't think it would but who knows? People want to believe their fantasies. What's also incredible to me about this is, I read a short story recently, I can't recall the author's name, but it was describing just this: a corporation that plays family members, "for real," often for years at a time. But it was a story, it was a satire!!

    The Japanese owner of that business describes "being" the father of a 12 year old daughter. And she loves him like any daughter would. Her mother allows this to go on. And it could go on indefinitely. I pity the mother when, not if, the daughter finds out the truth.

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    Default Re: Why are we lying ?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by East Sun (here)
    Sometimes it's better to not tell someone that their Father or Mother committed suicide to prevent pain.
    Actually — although I've never been close to any kind of dreadful situation like that — I'm not quite so sure. I mentioned above that all lies lead to another problem... whatever the lie is.

    Imagine the possible sense of hurt and betrayal when the person eventually funds out the truth... as they very probably might.

    The same applies to other deeply sensitive issues, like whether someone's been adopted or not. Or (maybe) even something like finding that the child you thought you'd fathered wasn't actually yours.

    The truth does set you free, though it can certainly be tough and difficult when crawling through that razor fence in the mud. I'd suggest — though these clumsy words might not show the sensitivity I appreciate is always there — that denying someone the truth may sometimes be a little demeaning, condescending, distrusting, and even arrogantly controlling.

    I don't think we've really ever got the right to manipulate another person like that — even if we convince ourselves we're trying to be 'kind'.

    It can be one's OWN fear that one's trying to self-medicate. Not real, genuine concern for the person one's told the 'white lie' to.
    I agree, Bill, except in what I stated initially. This was not in my immediate family, but my wife's. The person concerned died recently and never knew that her father had committed suicide. I think in this particular case the right decision was made.
    I'm glad I did not have to make any part of that decision.
    Question Everything, twice or maybe trice..........

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    Default Re: Why are we lying ?

    its possible the only reason we lie, is society

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    Default Re: Why are we lying ?

    Quote Posted by Strat (here)
    Quote Posted by Iyakum (here)
    The country I was in was a fundamentalist Islamic country. However, I did not believe in Islam, I am a Christian.
    Where did this take place and why? You don't have to answer I'm just curious. Sorry to hear about your experience, that cell sounds horrible.
    This take place in one of the most horrible country in the world.

    It was in the middle east, where the "first Gulf War" took place. I do not mean the Iraq Gulf War against Kuwait, that was not the first Gulf War. The prison I was in is the "Evin". It is laid out like a maze, some of the cells are under the mountain. When they arrested me, I was on my way via Kurdistan to Turkey. First I was in normal pre-trial detention. After more than three months, I was transferred to Evin Prison. The real reason was not the attempt of an illegal departure, the more I am Eurpäer. So they assumed that I was actively working against the government in Europe. But that was not true, but who believed me? Nobody? I spare the torture methods of describing what people are capable of doing out of sheer malice and envy. Just to blackmail a lie, ...

    After my release, I learned that my family lied. They told the authorities I was a left Mujahedin. This can happen if one lies out of envy, malice and malice. You can destroy life with it. The strange thing is that they enjoy lying, ... I did not enjoy it.
    Iyakum
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    Default Re: Why are we lying ?

    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
    its possible the only reason we lie, is society
    Well, animals have also already been observed exhibiting deceptive behavior. In fact, many animals deceive their prey in order to catch it, or deceive a predator in order to save their own life. Think of animals capable of changing color, for instance.

    But then again, apes ─ and most notably, bonobos ─ have also already been observed deceiving members of their own group, e.g. in committing "adultery" and then trying to hide it from their designated mate, or in hiding food from the others.

    So my personal take on it is that deceit is just part of life, and that it has developed as a mechanism for self-preservation. And the more intelligent a species, the more it will use the tactics it has learned or inherited, to the point where deception doesn't necessarily have anything to do with self-preservation anymore, but becomes a tool for manipulation ─ as it is among humans.

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