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Thread: A contradiction? One unit or two?

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    Germany Avalon Member Iyakum's Avatar
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    Default A contradiction? One unit or two?

    Those are smart who know their limits. It helps us to decide much wiser. When we know and understand what we are capable of and what we should not be. It helps us to grow as soon as we recognize our limitations. To do good should be under the teachings of those who have already gained more experience in dealing with good and evil. It is their teachings that help us to be ready to learn from each other. Yet evil is also a part of us.

    We can not separate good and bad, both are one. We carry good and evil in us. Nobody can say what the number of those who believe in both. In the universe, there is only one thing we can really do. Whether we do good or bad. Nevertheless, one thing does not exclude the other. Both powers are one. In order to do good, we also need the support of evil.

    As well as the evil needed the good to accomplish his work. Hence the question of how you see or perceive this. Since we are one, thinking about good and evil is unnecessary. That's how I see it, which does not mean it's true. I would ask you to share your point of view, your way of thinking so that everyone can share it.

    Please keep in mind that when you think about answers, you do not think about traditions or wisdom of a religion of any kind. Decide freely from yourself.
    Iyakum
    All the questions we have, all the answers we are looking for, about the meaning of life. Mother Nature, she has already answered, we just have to read it.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: A contradiction? One unit or two?

    That which brings you pleasure brings you pain--two sides of the one coin with potential for one side to manifest predominantly but the other potential is always present.
    Most noticeable in personal relationships.
    The love of my life become---whatever!!!
    Chris
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    Default Re: A contradiction? One unit or two?

    My mother used to say "The dark needs to come to light in order to be destroyed", and I didn't really pay attention at the time, but as I began to think about things more, I think she's correct.

    Sometimes in life, we're left with two, maybe three awful choices, and we need to pick the least awful one. I imagine God maybe faced with the same dilemma, and that is why there's "gross stuff all over the place"...

    Needing the "support of evil" is super-suspicious to me, but maybe not to God! I wonder if it could be Lucifer because the thing in my head asked me if I thought I was smarter than Lucifer and I said "No, of course not".

    As for telling the difference between good and evil, and not being able to separate them - I think that's totally right for me, but not for everyone. I can't tell if I'm "being scammed" or not, but that's not to say someone more sensitive wouldn't be able to. I guess I just refuse to judge, and rather leave that to God..... since he doesn't make mistakes.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: A contradiction? One unit or two?

    I'd suggest it's not always that polarized. Help is an interesting concept to consider.

    To take a small example:

    To help an elderly person to cross the road (or carry a heavy bag to their car) is a 'good' thing. A good deed. But there's no evil involved if that help isn't offered. The person just has to struggle just a little more to accomplish the task themselves.

    Life is full of opportunities for small and not-so-small good deeds, literally every day. If evil never existed, those deeds would still add quality and value (and kindness) to our lives together.


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    Default Re: A contradiction? One unit or two?

    Here's a small example that happened to me recently that kind of shook me (note: yes I know smoking is bad for me)

    My friend, my brother and I are sitting in a car. My brother bums a smoke.

    Another bum comes along and asks us for a smoke. My friend says no. I say no. My brother says "Here, have the rest of this one".

    I thought "What! How dare you give away that smoke that I just gave you!" and was surprised by my extreme reaction to my brother's kindness.

    We pick and choose WHO we're willing to help..... and that's a form of judging too.

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    Default Re: A contradiction? One unit or two?

    Quote Posted by Iyakum (here)
    Since we are one, thinking about good and evil is unnecessary. That's how I see it, which does not mean it's true.
    upon depends .. because the (good) true is relative

    if you see us together by a out far distance, we all are one (part of macrocosm)

    if you see yourself from individual being perspective, the (we are one) part of macroscosm are subdivided into microcosms, that seemly be (analog) macrocosms on ourselves, each one.

    Good and Bad (like big or small) its a Relative Point choosed (Here and Now) to put (amounts of) Space into (a time) perspective, which will depend on immanent (spatial) ability to gather (Good or Bad) informations, So, the question of how you see or perceive this, is answered through your Relative Lucidity, which means be aware about "Who I'm".

    Quote Posted by Iyakum (here)
    Those are smart who know their limits. It helps us to decide much wiser.
    if we are able to Learn and Grow (evolve), "Who I'm" is permanently changing, and that way, the perspective changes accordingly (ie, its always relative to the space/time - here/now - learned circumstances)

    to go beyond the (microcosm) spatial and temporal perspective, could think on a Spaceless environment, where Big or Small "All are one", or like on a Timeless environment, where Past and Future "All are one", and entering on the these paradoxal singularities of macrocosm, to know more better what does It means "Here and Now" which consequently will improve "Who I'm, Here and Now".

    Good and Bad perceptions are always a local limited temporary choose, that can appears contradictory, because in a macro perspective could becomes a singular paradox, similar do divide by zero or multiply by infinite.
    Last edited by rogparan; 6th September 2019 at 16:45.
    here I am, but I don't belong to this world
    So, nothing there are here belongs to me.

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    UK Avalon Member Star Mariner's Avatar
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    Default Re: A contradiction? One unit or two?

    It's true that good and evil can't be entirely separated, as they're connected by infinite shades of grey. We sort of carry good and evil within us, but not as two separate forces. There is only one force: good, or 'love'. What we perceive as another force, 'evil', is simply where love is absent.

    We carry degrees of goodness/love within us, like the soil carries degrees of moisture. The more moisture, the more the tree flourishes and grows tall and healthy. With a lack, it droops, rots and withers away. The tree in this analysis being the soul. It can be viewed like a zero sum game: as light contracts, darkness expands. And darkness deforms the soul as drought deforms the growing tree. But drought isn't a force in and of itself, it's merely the by-product of moisture's absence, like a vacuum is a by-product of air's absence - likewise, evil is the by-product of love's absence. At its extreme, evil is the warping of the spirit as a result of the total contraction and thus deprivation of goodness/love.

    Although for me, good/evil aren't factual descriptors in a spiritual sense. Maturity/delinquency, or morality/depravity, would be more accurate.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: A contradiction? One unit or two?

    Quote Posted by rogparan (here)
    Quote Posted by Iyakum (here)
    Those are smart who know their limits. It helps us to decide much wiser.
    if we are able to Learn and Grow (evolve), "Who I'm" is permanently changing, and that way, the perspective changes accordingly (ie, its always relative to the space/time - here/now - learned circumstances)
    No wonder it's so confusing!

    Jim Carrey said "There is no me", but I angrily disagree with that. Pretty sure he's still "around" somewhere.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: A contradiction? One unit or two?

    Quote Posted by petra (here)
    Quote Posted by rogparan (here)
    Quote Posted by Iyakum (here)
    Those are smart who know their limits. It helps us to decide much wiser.
    if we are able to Learn and Grow (evolve), "Who I'm" is permanently changing, and that way, the perspective changes accordingly (ie, its always relative to the space/time - here/now - learned circumstances)
    No wonder it's so confusing!

    Jim Carrey said "There is no me", but I angrily disagree with that. Pretty sure he's still "around" somewhere.
    That is the contradiction---There is no separate me.
    One consciousness in which all appears
    Jim Carrey follows the teachings of Eckhart Tolle the writer of the no 1 best seller "The Power of Now"
    He has millions of followers.
    Anyway worth a read of that book--very practical--speaks about "The Pain Body" that part of us which reacts with pain to those things that annoys us.
    Those things that push our buttons can lead us to positive thinking books or spiritual teaching.
    Life drove Eckart to suicidal thoughts then the peace that passes understanding completely altered his life. He knew nothing of siprituality at that time.
    Now he teaches about it.

    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 9th September 2019 at 17:45.
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    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Germany Avalon Member Iyakum's Avatar
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    Default Re: A contradiction? One unit or two?

    I agree, both forces exist, that is fact. A small example, in biology lessons, we learned how life on earth could have come about. First came the protozoa. Imagine that the protozoa exist in positive and negative. Whenever a cell felt powerless, the other cell combined with the weak one. The cell did this until the weak cell recovered. So it would be like this, the positive cell helps the negatives. Also the other way round it is possible, Negative helps positively. I asked, how does the cell know that the other is weak and powerless? My teacher responded, "that's what you call the divine."

    No one can exist without the other, neither good nor evil. That's how I think a law of the universe. That's the way it should be everywhere. But if the good accesses the evil to drive out the evil, ... What then? When we think about the first atomic bomb. The purpose of the development of the atomic bomb was finally to end World War II. Only it brought more than havoc and death. Nevertheless, good and evil agreed that they are one.
    Iyakum
    All the questions we have, all the answers we are looking for, about the meaning of life. Mother Nature, she has already answered, we just have to read it.

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    Avalon Member O Donna's Avatar
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    Default Re: A contradiction? One unit or two?

    All question arise from duality/ multiplicity, its the basis of operation.

    Cannot think of one without the 'other'.

    Conscious

    Conscious of (consciousness).

    of, of, of, of ....

    'Of' thinks it is alone, the infinite echo...

    The infinite regress (in philosophical terms).

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    Default Re: A contradiction? One unit or two?

    I must give thanks for this Thread, for it has brought a clear awareness to much of what we do in this life. The greatest activity we participate in, is what we mentally say in the mind. Here we talk to ourselves abundantly, and mostly to reinforce our past judgements and confirm what we we already think. This goes on undetected, because it is an automatic process.

    But it doesn't have to be so. Our awareness is not attached to this automatic process, and if we are aware of ourselves sufficiently, we will become aware of what we tell ourselves. When we talk to ourself, we are at the beginning of all falsehoods, and is the beginning of all self-deception. All errors in discernment and discretion begin with what you tell yourself.

    In any Spiritual Practice, being attentive and aware to where you are, who you are with and what you are saying, can save you so much time. This attentiveness might seem like it requires a lot of work, but really it is saving you a lot of work because if you are not attentive and aware, then you must repair the damage later, which can be very costly in terms of your time and energy. When you are being present and aware, you are saving energy; you are saving time; in some cases, you are even saving your life.

    This attentiveness does not only apply to listening to yourself, it applies to what others are telling you, if you listen carefully you will detect if the Greater Spirit is within them and moving them. If it cannot be detected, simply remain silent and discreet.

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    Canada Avalon Member Richard S.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: A contradiction? One unit or two?

    All this makes me think of Carl Jung...

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