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Thread: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    A further note about the many ex-Mafia members' statements.
    1. Everyone interviewed about this, over a number of years, has confirmed that the Mafia was deeply involved.
    2. All those who know say that the fatal-headshot shooter was Johnny Roselli from the storm drain.
    The factor here is the consistency. Mafia members, especially those who have left the 'Life' and are now talking, are in no way that well-organized or well-orchestrated to all be carefully choreographed to be saying exactly the same thing.

    They're all uncontrollable mavericks who somehow, either by luck or through their wits, have survived the carnage all around them. Their collective testimony — and there's a lot of it! — has to be taken extremely seriously.
    Whether the fatal shot came from the storm drain or the grassy knoll, I don't think matters very much.

    We know the mob were involved. We know the likelihood is Oswald was a total patsy and didn't fire a shot. And didn't kill Officer Tippit.

    But the key thing to bear in mind is that nothing like this, at this level, would have happened witout the direction and organization of the cia. This is why, I believe, Mark Lane focused tenaciously in his investigations on them and not the mafia, who were basically hired hands, notwithstanding their rage towards the Kennedy clan.

    And this is why we can call it a coup.

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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    Someone I knew wrote this:
    Good idea.......DALLAS (The Missing Shooter)..... how come no one ever talks about the shooter on the overpass?...... He was never trained as a sniper but was instead a excellent shooter....... they always talk about the two shooters but never about the third, he came from nowhere and went back to nowhere and always mixed in the ocean with the rest of the fishes, they used him four times and all four were a perfect hit, and so it happen that he always was some where else, twice overseas and twice in jail...... yes, I should write a mystery book....about The Missing Shooter. He could have gotten a fifth contract....but...didn't want to kill....one of his own.......of all those who knew him none are alive, so that now he will take his secret to the grave.

    ell, what do you think? should I write a mystery book?

    V
    ----------------
    He is seated.
    https://tangodown63.com/de-leon-rona...-carousel-1884

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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    Fascinating interview with Rod MacKenzie. He ran the safe house for the shooters in Dallas.

    http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/33211

    Interview with JFK assassination insider Rod MacKenzie
    Series: KOWA-LP 106.5 FM
    Subtitle: Conspiracy Discussion Group
    Program Type: Interview
    Featured Speakers/Commentators: Rod MacKenzie, Mr. E, Demy DeAsis, Joe Black, Dark, Michael, and Tommy C.
    Contributor: Demy DeAsis [Contact Contributor]
    Summary: Rod MacKenzie was employed by Mafia boss, Sam Giancana, and ran the "safe house" in Dallas, Texas when President John F. Kennedy was assassinated on November 22, 1963.

    After 45 years of silence, Mr. MacKenzie reveals what he knew about the "big hit" along with events surrounding the Bay of Pigs fiasco in Cuba, in this exclusive interview.

    "Rotten Rod" is tortuously interrogated by the feared, "Conspiracy Discussion Group." He also talks about his upcoming book, The Men That Don't Fit In.
    Credits: Produced by Mr. E - jamesjmh@aol.com
    Notes: KOWA 106.5 FM is a low-powered community radio station in Olympia, WA. KOWA -LP's mission is to give voice to individuals, organizations, and movements working for social justice,economic democracy, ecological sustainability and peace.

    website: kowalp.org

    Date Recorded: 2008-06-10
    http://www.radio4all.net/responder.p...nzie_final.mp3
    "In real life James Bond works for S.P.E.C.T.R.E."
    --frankstien

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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    Quote Posted by frankstien (here)
    Fascinating interview with Rod MacKenzie. He ran the safe house for the shooters in Dallas.

    http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/33211

    Interview with JFK assassination insider Rod MacKenzie

    http://www.radio4all.net/responder.p...nzie_final.mp3
    And you suppose that Rod MacKenzie would be alive if he actually knew anything real about the JFK assassination?

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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    A further note about the many ex-Mafia members' statements.
    1. Everyone interviewed about this, over a number of years, has confirmed that the Mafia was deeply involved.
    2. All those who know say that the fatal-headshot shooter was Johnny Roselli from the storm drain.
    The factor here is the consistency. Mafia members, especially those who have left the 'Life' and are now talking, are in no way that well-organized or well-orchestrated to all be carefully choreographed to be saying exactly the same thing.

    They're all uncontrollable mavericks who somehow, either by luck or through their wits, have survived the carnage all around them. Their collective testimony — and there's a lot of it! — has to be taken extremely seriously.
    Forgive me, but I'm not inclined to believe much that comes out of the mouth of these admitted, and often convicted, punk, narcissistic, sociopathic, psychopathic, pathetic, lying, murdering, hoodlums. At least, not until they have been subjected to the rigors of cross examination under oath and drilled hard in public for all to see and draw our own conclusions about their veracity.

    That is not to say there was not a shooter in the storm drain, and several other places, in Dealy Plaza that day and time. (I have no doubt Oswald was not the shooter or even a shooter. He was as he said, a patsy.) It is to say that these guy have egos the size of the moon and fancy themselves as being in the center, and in the know, of everything they perceive to be significant.

    These pussyfoot interviews reminiscing over the good ole days as a "Made Man" is pointless and just strokes their egos.

    I also do not think they would be permitted to tell the truthful facts of what occurred even if they knew it. Certainly not back then and for a long time since. Maybe now some of the truthful facts are emerging; owing to the fact that "they" don't care what we know or believe we know because they know, or believe (rightly so far) that we don't have the courage, organization and leadership to standup to them and do anything about not only the JFK assassination, but anything else, such as Oklahoma City, 911...

    These people, mobsters, criminal politicians, etc... actually make me sick to my stomach and boil my blood. That is why I abhor glorifying them in the silver screen or elsewhere. I cannot stomach the movies and such made about them because I hate being lied to.
    Last edited by Satori; 12th September 2019 at 22:49.

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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    Quote Posted by Antagenet (here)
    Quote Posted by frankstien (here)
    Fascinating interview with Rod MacKenzie. He ran the safe house for the shooters in Dallas.

    http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/33211

    Interview with JFK assassination insider Rod MacKenzie

    http://www.radio4all.net/responder.p...nzie_final.mp3
    And you suppose that Rod MacKenzie would be alive if he actually knew anything real about the JFK assassination?
    Yes I do and he was for awhile. Much of what he relates in the interview, especially about Permindex, was corroborated by Mae Brussell, back when she interviewed him.
    "In real life James Bond works for S.P.E.C.T.R.E."
    --frankstien

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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    Here's Rod MacKenzie's book, The Men That Don't Fit In:
    And here's a long and detailed written interview with him, originally published in April 2010.

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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    Quote Posted by Satori (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    A further note about the many ex-Mafia members' statements.
    1. Everyone interviewed about this, over a number of years, has confirmed that the Mafia was deeply involved.
    2. All those who know say that the fatal-headshot shooter was Johnny Roselli from the storm drain.
    The factor here is the consistency. Mafia members, especially those who have left the 'Life' and are now talking, are in no way that well-organized or well-orchestrated to all be carefully choreographed to be saying exactly the same thing.

    They're all uncontrollable mavericks who somehow, either by luck or through their wits, have survived the carnage all around them. Their collective testimony — and there's a lot of it! — has to be taken extremely seriously.
    Forgive me, but I'm not inclined to believe much that comes out of the mouth of these admitted, and often convicted, punk, narcissistic, sociopathic, psychopathic, pathetic, lying, murdering, hoodlums. At least, not until they have been subjected to the rigors of cross examination under oath and drilled hard in public for all to see and draw our own conclusions about their veracity.

    That is not to say there was not a shooter in the storm drain, and several other places, in Dealy Plaza that day and time. (I have no doubt Oswald was not the shooter or even a shooter. He was as he said, a patsy.) It is to say that these guy have egos the size of the moon and fancy themselves as being in the center, and in the know, of everything they perceive to be significant.

    These pussyfoot interviews reminiscing over the good ole days as a "Made Man" is pointless and just strokes their egos.

    I also do not think they would be permitted to tell the truthful facts of what occurred even if they knew it. Certainly not back then and for a long time since. Maybe now some of the truthful facts are emerging; owing to the fact that "they" don't care what we know or believe we know because they know, or believe (rightly so far) that we don't have the courage, organization and leadership to standup to them and do anything about not only the JFK assassination, but anything else, such as Oklahoma City, 911...

    These people, mobsters, criminal politicians, etc... actually make me sick to my stomach and boil my blood. That is why I abhor glorifying them in the silver screen or elsewhere. I cannot stomach the movies and such made about them because I hate being lied to.
    I'm not too interested in emotional fits that contribute nothing. I hope it doesn't put a damper on this interesting discussion.

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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    I can't remember the title, but there is a book which simply includes most of the "proven" statements, i. e. it was from the drain, or from the driver, and so forth. The author had simply collected conflicting information without trying to have a pet theory.

    Most importantly, the Oswald shot seems almost entirely out of the question, using a Carcano which itself had probably been heavily roasted at the siege of Palermo, leaning outside, and turning while following a moving target while being a Marksman which is the very lowest grade the Marines give you if you qualify with a firearm at all.

    The one that caught my eye was about bullet casings found on the top of a building that was basically behind the car once it rounded the corner at the repository. I forget the specifics, but the act was somewhat "concealed". The shells fit a round that could be re=loaded and "necked down" into a different case. It was something like a .30-06, which had been reloaded into a .270.

    It smells like LBJ's Texas machine all over it and Kissinger, Vietnam, etc., just look at what went through when he entered office in an un-elected manner. Then you got Nixon who had already lost to Kennedy by looking much worse on television and then the un-elected president Ford.

    I think it shattered the country's mind until it re-assembled itself in some strange new way in Regan's term. This was a "thing" until 9/11 which shattered it again for another 20 or 30 years or in other words I don't think it is "re-assembled" yet. It takes a generation to mutate and forget the past. I believe this generational principle is pretty close to the main way that the Statist Corporation or the Corporatist State propagandizes itself.

    The way my grandparents explained it to me was the previous "event" was not the war, but the Great Depression, which we now tend to find as an intentional manipulation, a necessary step in post-Empire imperialism. Kennedy therefor had come in on that post-WWII "Allied Victory" wave, where there was really no such thing before. The first World War was much more sensationalized, i. e. attack on the Lusitania and merchant marines to provoke the U. S. out of "xenophobic" mode and get it to act. That was the hard part. Once that was done, making them do it again by scuttling the fleet in Hawaii was trivial. That would be considered easy peasy in any play book.

    Mankind is so almost utterly helpless, if you look at Rothschild's antics at Waterloo, that was purely childish the way he conned the stock market and re-bought everything. I suppose it is arrogant and contemptuous too. People like the ones behind Dallas seriously do not care what we say, as long as we don't stop them.

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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    I can't remember the title, but there is a book which simply includes most of the "proven" statements, i. e. it was from the drain, or from the driver, and so forth. The author had simply collected conflicting information without trying to have a pet theory.

    Most importantly, the Oswald shot seems almost entirely out of the question, using a Carcano which itself had probably been heavily roasted at the siege of Palermo, leaning outside, and turning while following a moving target while being a Marksman which is the very lowest grade the Marines give you if you qualify with a firearm at all.

    The one that caught my eye was about bullet casings found on the top of a building that was basically behind the car once it rounded the corner at the repository. I forget the specifics, but the act was somewhat "concealed". The shells fit a round that could be re=loaded and "necked down" into a different case. It was something like a .30-06, which had been reloaded into a .270.

    It smells like LBJ's Texas machine all over it and Kissinger, Vietnam, etc., just look at what went through when he entered office in an un-elected manner. Then you got Nixon who had already lost to Kennedy by looking much worse on television and then the un-elected president Ford.

    I think it shattered the country's mind until it re-assembled itself in some strange new way in Regan's term. This was a "thing" until 9/11 which shattered it again for another 20 or 30 years or in other words I don't think it is "re-assembled" yet. It takes a generation to mutate and forget the past. I believe this generational principle is pretty close to the main way that the Statist Corporation or the Corporatist State propagandizes itself.

    The way my grandparents explained it to me was the previous "event" was not the war, but the Great Depression, which we now tend to find as an intentional manipulation, a necessary step in post-Empire imperialism. Kennedy therefor had come in on that post-WWII "Allied Victory" wave, where there was really no such thing before. The first World War was much more sensationalized, i. e. attack on the Lusitania and merchant marines to provoke the U. S. out of "xenophobic" mode and get it to act. That was the hard part. Once that was done, making them do it again by scuttling the fleet in Hawaii was trivial. That would be considered easy peasy in any play book.

    Mankind is so almost utterly helpless, if you look at Rothschild's antics at Waterloo, that was purely childish the way he conned the stock market and re-bought everything. I suppose it is arrogant and contemptuous too. People like the ones behind Dallas seriously do not care what we say, as long as we don't stop them.
    What I like about the mobster testimony is that it gives names and faces to some of the perpetrators. It's easy to get into a blanket conspiracy mindset but this was carried out by individuals, who should go down in history for their actions.

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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    What I like about the mobster testimony is that it gives names and faces to some of the perpetrators. It's easy to get into a blanket conspiracy mindset but this was carried out by individuals, who should go down in history for their actions.
    Yes, it's the human condition, for better or worse.

    Many of the interviewed mobsters really do come over as psychopaths who only took the witness stand as a pragmatic strategy to save their skins. But one stands out above all the others — Michael Franzese, who converted to Christianity, talks regularly in schools and churches, and has given a fair number of interviews. They're all worth listening to, and are easy to find.

    He's intelligent, aware and articulate, and from his demeanor, it's sometimes hard to believe he was ever involved in that world. I wrote earlier:
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Franzese is a delight to listen to, clearly a totally reformed man with his integrity intact.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 14th September 2019 at 13:09.

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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/FreeWayman.htm

    White claimed that a train was crossing the bridge while the shooting in Dealey Plaza was taking place

    Mr. BALL. Did you see the President's car come into sight?
    Mr. WHITE. No, sir; first time I saw it had passed, passed under the triple underpass.

    Mr. BALL. You were too far away to see it, were you?
    Mr. WHITE. There was a freight train traveling. There was a train passing between the location I was standing and the area from which the procession was traveling, and – a big long freight train, and I did not see it.
    (Proponents of Ed’s story have pointed out that J.W. Foster, the officer stationed on the east side of the Triple Underpass, later claimed not only to have seen the train described by his partner – a “three-engine freight train,” in Foster’s recollection – but also to having been told by a bystander that a man had run north into the train yards from the area at the north end of the bridge. In that recollection [Larry Sneed, No More Silence, University of North Press, Denton TX, 1998; page 212], Foster also claimed to have spent the next 15 minutes searching railroad cars in the train yard, which he had specifically stated in his 1964 sworn Warren Commission testimony that he had not done, [6H252] thus calling his recollection of the train and the running man into question.)

    At the time McIntyre’s photo was taken, JFK’s limo was approximately 1/10 mile from where Ed was standing on the opposite side of the freeway. If the car was traveling only 30 mph, it would have taken just over five seconds to reach a point where it had “passed by” Ed; any faster and it would have passed him even sooner. A train that was just moving into McIntyre’s photo area at the time he took the photo would have to travel 68 yards in the same amount of time - i.e., at over 10 mph - to “completely obstruct” Ed’s view.

    While 10 mph is slow for an automobile, freight trains cannot reach 10 mph from a dead stop very quickly, and likewise cannot slow down and stop from that speed in a short distance. So either Ed’s train would have already been at or approaching that speed by the time it reached the bridge, or being unable to stop, would have been forced to go over the bridge just as Kennedy was beneath it.

    -- -- -- -- --
    so, could there have been a third shooter inside on of the train compartments, or perhaps on the roof of the train?
    I can't find any information written about this.

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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)

    What I like about the mobster testimony is that it gives names and faces to some of the perpetrators. It's easy to get into a blanket conspiracy mindset but this was carried out by individuals, who should go down in history for their actions.
    I just can't remember the names or even the book's name. What I do remember is it had "mob evidence" as a convincing story, "CIA evidence" as a convincing story, and "Texas cronies" as a convincing story. Pretty sure it mentioned "guy at train tracks" as well. Point being if you only look at one aspect, then you just get that particular conclusion.

    Rooftop of a building other than the repository + being directly behind the car + high powered scoped rifle has its circumstantial plausibility, especially combined with shells being necked-down for some reason.

    I may have to retract it a bit since Harry Weatherford was mentioned earlier in the thread:

    (1) The first shot that hit, which struck Kennedy in the back, appears to have been fired from the top of the County Records Building by Dallas Deputy Sheriff Harry Weatherford. He used a silenced 30.06 to fire a Mannlicher-Carcano (.256 cal) bullet fitted with a plastic collar known as a sabot, which hit JFK 5.5″ below the shoulder just to the right of the spinal column. This was a shallow wound with no point of exit. This is also consistent with the 30.06 shell with a strange crimp found on the roof by a maintenance man in 1975.

    So in that view, it was non-fatal. Weatherford's claim is that he was elsewhere and went to the depository finding Oswald's shells. He may have especially if evidence was planted. He was filmed climbing into the repository, so that part appears to be true, but as to his prior whereabouts, someone is lying. As far as it being the "first non-fatal" shot, it seems a bit odd that such a rifle would make a "shallow wound".

    I do not think there is a .256 Carcano, which .256 can work with a .357, whereas .270 is a necked down .30-06. Mannlicher-Carcano is also more of a "folk name" than a precise one. So if anything, that one was almost certainly a reloaded .270 bullet.

    In other words if you asked for a .30 silencer and bought .270 rounds, neither party would likely expect you to be using a .30-06.

    A statement from PD sergeant Jim Bowles:

    BOWLES : Yes, Harry Weatherford was on the roof with a second deputy, and he had a rifle. They were assigned
    there for security. My first recollection of the suggestion that Weatherford might have been implicated was from the imagination of Penn Jones who, so far as I know, never worried about the other deputy. It would seem
    strange that a hit man would be stationed with a living witness. It does not fit reason.

    He says it wouldn't make sense to happen that way, and concludes that Oswald did it and also shot Tippit. The Sherriff dept. says they were not doing security except for the lead car. So in "sherriff talk", the man was on the ground in front of the jail, but in "police speak" he was on the roof with a rifle, which just happened to be weird because the official story is true.

    Worse still,

    Dep.Sheriff Pat Boyd told Roger Craig that two weeks prior to the assassination , he ( Boyd) had built a silencer
    for a .30 caliber carbine owned by Harry Weatherford..

    When Craig became a Corporation Court Judge for Midlothian, Texas.....he was told by Weatherford "If you ever try
    to arraign me, there'll be a g....d... gun battle.....

    On that note, if he said .30 carbine, it should fit the .30-06 just the same.

    I don't know how factual any of the supposed interviews are, but just on the subject of this one guy is a big mess.

    Weatherford's alleged location and where one strange shell was found nearly twenty years later was on the Records Building:





    If I remember rightly, the motorcade was planned to go straight down Main St. but the path was changed only an hour or so before arriving.
    Last edited by shaberon; 18th September 2019 at 21:47.

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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.



    This seems to be a cogent and accurate representation of what happened.

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    Avalon Member mountain_jim's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    ^ wanted to watch, but refuse to give YouTube credentials to 'verify my age'
    I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. - Robert Anton Wilson

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    Quote Posted by Antagenet (here)


    This seems to be a cogent and accurate representation of what happened.
    ~~~

    Fantastic documentary. HIGHLY HIGHLY recommended. The best I've seen on the subject..


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    Netherlands Avalon Member Jantje's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    Quote Posted by mountain_jim (here)
    ^ wanted to watch, but refuse to give YouTube credentials to 'verify my age'
    Just type nsfw before youtube and press enter and you should be able to watch it

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    Quote Posted by Jantje (here)
    Quote Posted by mountain_jim (here)
    ^ wanted to watch, but refuse to give YouTube credentials to 'verify my age'
    Just type nsfw before youtube and press enter and you should be able to watch it
    And there's a different upload here: (360p, slightly lower resolution, but as best I can see at first glance it's the same video)


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    France Administrator Hervé's Avatar
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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    Quote Posted by Antagenet (here)
    [...]

    Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk_7TCe_Fkk

    This seems to be a cogent and accurate representation of what happened.
    Well researched documentary, indeed.

    For some other background data on how it came about and who the real initiators were:


    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

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    Default Re: JFK: 3 shooters, the fatal bullet from Johnny Roselli in the storm drain.

    It can't hurt to revisit this interesting interview of Douglas Caddy by the Dark Journalist -

    CIA INSIDER EXPOSES: JFK KILLED OVER THE ALIEN PRESENCE! DOUGLAS CADDY & DARK JOURNALIST

    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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