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Thread: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

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    United States Avalon Member thepainterdoug's Avatar
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    Default WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    I was prompted to post this after seeing the movie Vanilla Sky tonight.
    Has anyone seen the movie "Open your Eyes" ? or its remake, Vanilla Sky?

    This is a fascinating and harshly real exploration into how it is , with rare exception.
    That we fall in love with bodies. Bodies that we up front know are fragile and perish.

    Demonstrated in these films is the love of beauty and symmetry. We convince ourselves we are passionately in love with each other , until the exterior changes.

    The jokes, the cuteness, coyness ,cleverness and charm we have as members of the adorable, is so sadly seen as embarrassing, uncool and a complete turnoff when the package has changed..

    The person who looses their looks, looses confidence and now becomes desperate and thus compoundedly ugly , all while equally in need of more acceptance , love and comfort.

    Theres simply no arguing it. Its as it is , and only wishful thinking says its different.

    And when Tom Cruise puts on a mask, even though fake, it seems to make it better, more acceptable, no different than face lifts and botox.

    And what does this say about us, the beings we are ? Is this how it is and how it should be,
    Should we just embrace it? Or rise above and see the illusion?

    I love these films and how they remind me of how it truly is, and the battle to see thru it.

    I am perplexed as to why it is this way, and how in spite of how obvious it is, most seem to play a wishful game of denial of this simple reality.

    judge no one, we are all each other in this strange game.
    I have been on both sides , and don't enjoy either.

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    Ecuador Avalon Member Rosemarie's Avatar
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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    I have a story to tell to prove your point wrong. At least in this case. But it is too personal. Will think If I want to share. There was no body to fall in love , just very intelligent conversation for a long period of time by phone or internet. Never talked about looks , everything but that. No facetime , no photos. After many months.... hop on a plane to meet this person you know as much or more than anybody you have ever known personally. Body was not the ideal of “ beauty “ society want to impose on us ..... but by that time that was not important. We had seen with our souls.
    "Be kind for everybody is fighting a great battle" Plato

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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    The comments from painterdoug and Rosemarie reflect the age-old wisdom that men trade love for sex and women trade sex for love.

    And it brings to mind the old joke:
    Adam: God, why did you make Eve so beautiful?
    God: So you would love her.
    Adam: But why did you make her so stupid?
    God: So she would love YOU.

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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    Rosemarie/ that is why is said this; This is a fascinating and harshly real exploration into how it is , with rare exception.

    Im happy for you and this experience. but its not the norm by any means, and not what we see being played out in the world we live. for if it were the norm, supermodels would pare up with average fellows, waiters and such ,and male Adonis's would be with non attractive gals. I don't see this.

    is it this way it is ? if you can honestly tell me this is what you observe, then Im all ears to be awakened.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    TOM KAT / That quote is a prize.

    This is not the way I see or decided the world to be. This is what it is ,as the movie so apply displayed.

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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    Dear Tom Kat: Thanks for the belly laugh.

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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    For me the eyes have it.
    Regardless attraction is an energy thing.
    Something subconscious attracts one to the other.
    Or we would all pick the same person.
    Chris
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    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    United States Avalon Member thepainterdoug's Avatar
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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    graybeard , we must all remember , its not like we can pick anyone we want . we have to also be picked, or shall i say, accepted.

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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
    graybeard , we must all remember , its not like we can pick anyone we want . we have to also be picked, or shall i say, accepted.
    Thats why I said its an energy thing.
    You could say its mutual attraction but its the same energy--- consciousness.
    Words dont really convey.
    Chris
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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    Super models, for whom the body is a big part of their lives, will most likely fall for a handsome man. They want to be the best looking couple as well.

    There is a group of women that fall for power. Same with money. Those men will pick the Beautiful.

    But there is also a group of women who choose different, for another reason .............


    An answer to the "Beautiful but Stupid" bias:

    GO ON GIRLS, CLAP YOUR HANDS!!!!




    Now waiting for the song "God's gift to Men".

    ~

    Hope I didn't offend too many of you. Although that would mean there are quite some handsome guys around here.
    Last edited by Deux Corbeaux; 16th September 2019 at 14:25. Reason: clarity

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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    Doug, I've seen that movie many times. One of the most painful things to watch was not that Tom Cruise's character became disfigured on the outside, but that he was crippled on the inside and when he lost his looks, he lost a superficial facade and he became bitter, with a huge chip on his shoulder. That is what made him ugly.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
    I was prompted to post this after seeing the movie Vanilla Sky tonight.
    Has anyone seen the movie "Open your Eyes" ? or its remake, Vanilla Sky?

    This is a fascinating and harshly real exploration into how it is , with rare exception.
    That we fall in love with bodies. Bodies that we up front know are fragile and perish.

    Demonstrated in these films is the love of beauty and symmetry. We convince ourselves we are passionately in love with each other , until the exterior changes.

    The jokes, the cuteness, coyness ,cleverness and charm we have as members of the adorable, is so sadly seen as embarrassing, uncool and a complete turnoff when the package has changed..

    The person who looses their looks, looses confidence and now becomes desperate and thus compoundedly ugly , all while equally in need of more acceptance , love and comfort.

    Theres simply no arguing it. Its as it is , and only wishful thinking says its different.

    And when Tom Cruise puts on a mask, even though fake, it seems to make it better, more acceptable, no different than face lifts and botox.

    And what does this say about us, the beings we are ? Is this how it is and how it should be,
    Should we just embrace it? Or rise above and see the illusion?

    I love these films and how they remind me of how it truly is, and the battle to see thru it.

    I am perplexed as to why it is this way, and how in spite of how obvious it is, most seem to play a wishful game of denial of this simple reality.

    judge no one, we are all each other in this strange game.
    I have been on both sides , and don't enjoy either.
    All my life I dated pretty girls. Really pretty even by Cosmo standards and I must have looked good too because I attracted them. They were all built perfectly, had beautiful faces, and hair, great nails and so on. When I met my wife I knew right away something was different. She wasn't the body style I went for at all. She wasn't the hair color. She had the intellect to keep up with me though and we both worked in dentistry so she had great teeth! As time went by we became friends. She helped me get dates at times. One day we dropped something in her car in the parking lot of the ER at the hospital and went for it at the same time. We kissed for the first time. At first I was conflicted. She was everything I wanted but nothing I wanted or went for physically. She knew this of course but had long accepted that she was a bigger girl or one that would 'survive a hard winter' unlike the ones I usually dated lets just say that.
    When I did try to leave her I felt physically ill. When I finally realized she was the one it wasn't because of her body or her face, or her hair, or her teeth it was something else, something in the eyes? No, something whatever it was that I simply didn't want to live without and that was when I knew period end of story. Nothing else, none of that mattered to me anymore. All that mattered from then on to each of us was commitment to what we build together and that was nearly 40 years ago. I was never head over heels in love and she wasn't either. All the things I looked for were wrong. The one I couldn't live without without feeling sick was the one what can I say it was that simple and quite honestly I really don't think it would have mattered to me at this awakening if April had been a man or not the feeling of wanting to share the life together committed to that even when we didn't love each other at all was all that we worked on and all we keep. No matter what we both can count on that even when we want to kill each other.

    Anyway, just saying.
    The genius consistently stands out from the masses in that he unconsciously anticipates truths of which the population as a whole only later becomes conscious! Speech-circa 1937

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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    Yes I really get that Ratszinger.
    Ive been married three times plus one long relationship.
    The attraction had a life of its own--ive even turned down women who loved me--were special in their own way, to be with someone who was perhaps a challenge--I knew what I was getting into the moment I met them--avoidance was futile. not a sexual attraction--just something inevitable.
    Each relationship grew me--painfully at times.
    Still friendly with all of them.
    We just out grew the relationship.

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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    Valerie/ yes 100% ! and was so painful to watch.

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    United States Moderator Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    I think I've really and truly been deeply in love only once.

    The woman I was in love with was not conventionally pretty. She was by no means ugly, but she would not have made any magazine covers..lets just put it that way.

    She was not conventionally pretty, but she was attractive in ways that were mysterious to my friends and I back then. Looking back, it's not so mysterious - while not beautiful by any stretch, she was cute, and hada wonderful personality..which is what we were really attracted to the most. She liked to laugh, had a very sharp sense of humor herself, and could more than hold her own in a crowd of caustic drunken dudes. She was just different.

    Not to blow my own horn or anything, but like Ratzinger I was accustomed to being with beauties mostly. But I got past that real quick. I was hopelessly smitten. This woman was so unique; at the time I knew I'd never meet anyone like her again, and I haven't. And I think that's why I grieved so deeply when it all ended. See, it was her mind that hooked me.

    To Doug's point though, and I'll just admit this right here: had she been sloppy and unattractive, I would not have been with her. She was cute in her own way, and was also fit and so forth.

    Being attracted to attractive people isn't merely a superficial thing. Being attractive suggests many things: firstly, that someone takes the time and energy to care for themselves; it means they respect themselves; it means their life is in order. Being fit and healthy means you're honoring the opportunity you've been given on this earth.

    You're attracted to the result, but subconsciously attracted to the intention behind the result.

    I think, especially if you're coupled up, you have a responsibility to stay fit and attractive for your partner. To not do so is disrespectful. Sloppiness is contagious; your partner will likely let himself or herself go as well...quid pro quo. That's why you see those huge whales walking shopping malls, with the long faces and the wailing children tagging along that they don't have the energy to discipline...it's a silent contract between 2 people: if you're going to be fat and miserable, I am too.
    Last edited by Mike; 16th September 2019 at 15:39.

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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    Mike/ love your last paragraph and summation . And we do see this, a laziness set in among couples where its all too hard to hold up the facade anymore.

    but aren't we all talking about natural selection? genetics? . the best seek out the best.

    speaking as a male, a physically stunning woman holds a power over a mans thinking when being presented it. I've seen it played out a thousand times . beauty is powerful. its intoxicating and desirable. it holds a value , like money in a sense.

    symmetry , proportion etc, be it in humans or art, holds a power in it. as an artist I have studied it all my life , reading books like"the evolution of desire" and "shadows of forgotten ancestors"
    I have raised the topic in my series of paintings " State of Grace ", portraits of burn survivors. People who survive facial burns are the best example of this. Their faces are no longer seen as beautiful or attractive, yet the real person is the same person before the accident. the packaging changed and we intellectually know this, but still have a hard time working around it. look at the cosmetic and plastic surgery industries , would they thrive if our exteriors didn't matter ?

    As Valerie Villars noted regarding the movie, if the Tom Cruise character , only had some self love , and acted from it, yes he still would of been physically unattractive to the woman, but very possibly been able to have her love regardless.

    my burn survivor series can be seen at www.dougauld.com scroll down to State of Grace .

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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    There is a point to this. In a lot of cases, I get a better handle on something by looking at the opposite.

    Why are we repelled by ugliness?

    I have only been to Europe one time, but I went several places, and spent every day going through crowds and speaking to whoever. For the most part--80 or 90 per cent--they were all reasonably fit, decent looking, intelligent, and polite.

    Here, I can't really do it. Lots of them are unreasonably overweight, to outright gargantuan. But many of the normal-sized ones look like they are made of leather and have the voice of a crow. If you talk to them, they get stupider as they get louder and more excited. It is as if they are celebrating a cult of ugliness and ignorance. So I spend most of my life "dodging the crowd". Once in a while it may stop, and those are moments of great relief.

    What I experience is just one love that reaches out to anyone, but if they repel it, I leave quickly. If not, they get whatever I can offer. I have heard this expressed as "being clean", inside and out, the cleaner you are, the more beings you can touch. I think most of the repellent people are made of poor diet, no real education, and cherish stupid experiences. Why is it if I go out in my society, I need to continuously stifle a vomit? I should be able to walk out and be stunned by how great everyone is.

    In any case, I don't think that is "no love" which may get lucky in one instance to become "in love". The love is just an endless power that does what it does. When it finds better targets, it does more. "Better" has a lot more to do with good treatment than it does appearance, but if more things are good, usually the appearance is better. Beauty through and through could perhaps simply be called health. I dwell in a sick area.

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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    Shaberon/ some good comments and observations. I find a flaunting of ugliness in my town. Not ugly faces, beautiful faces turned ugly by no light, no love in their eyes. I see fear, fear of the facade falling or being found out. i have relegated myself to being alone, not only by choice in lifestyle, but by the time and town I live.
    Ive been told by others theres no worse town to be in for soul and culture than here. but I own my place and will not let the dead souls drive me out.

    i have a thing I do almost everyday while weather warm. I sit outside my place on the side of the building w cup of coffee. People need walk right past me. i have a welcoming smile for everyone. there are many a pretty young gal that pass me. I would say maybe 5% , yoga matt and all will make eye contact or smile. Its an unimaginative and scared demographic here, pretending to be liberal and open as they're are all tattoo'd up . However I get great and enjoyable interaction with children and dogs while parents drag them past !

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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    Hi Doug, yes, well said...and I can't argue with any of that.

    That first thing we notice about someone is their appearance. And then, if there is an energetic connection, romance may follow.

    It seems certain criteria must be met when selecting a mate. For better or worse, it begins with appearances. At a very basic level, we're biologically programmed to not only procreate and keep the species going, but to also weed out various undesirable variables, both physical and mental...and perhaps even spiritual. I think we all subconsciously approach romance this way.

    The topic of burn victims is gutting. I just read something on Yahoo about a woman burn victim whose husband left her shortly after the accident. She begged him to come back...and there was something about her begging him to return that completely broke my heart. I think it's because she still had hope for the relationship, despite her tragedy. She was still holding onto a precious ideal, one that perhaps you're espousing here, that burns or disfigurement shouldn't alter the love 2 people feel for one another.

    Or maybe she was just in shock and denial about it all, and was desperate for her old life back. Either way, it's just as heartbreaking.

    Had that happened to me, i think i would encourage my mate to leave...with shame and insecurity being the main reasons. Also, I'd want to free her of any sort of moral obligation she might feel to stay with me, and any judgement she might fear from friends and family. I don't think that approach is especially virtuous - it comes from a place of fear mainly. Unlike the woman who begged her husband to return, who, at best, was courageously prepared for those burdens, and was willing to deal with them. Its a very unique person who is, and an equally unique mate that stays
    Last edited by Mike; 16th September 2019 at 20:52.

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    Ecuador Avalon Member Rosemarie's Avatar
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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    Yes , My mistake thepainterdoug, I am the exception maybe. I cannot explain it well. I have always looked beyond the physical body. Off course I am not saying somebody that is dirty or does not take care of its body. They have to be clean. But the ugly part I can deal. In fact I think that when I was young a handsome guy , an Adonis type did not have a chance on me. I do not want to be “ presumida “. That is a show off in english, but I was an attractive/beautiful woman I was told when I was young ( now I am just whatever and I am fine with it ) and a handsome guy had a serious disadvantage with me. He had to prove himself to me he was more than a nice face/body. Sometimes I did not even care to give him that chance.

    In my personal case and not going into detail. When I met this guy after not knowing anything about his physical appearance, I encounter a guy 11 years older ( to my 40’s ) with a serious limp from a bicycle accident ages ago. With premature white hair , who literally did not know how to smile ( had a weird crooked smile ? ) with a face like a road map of wrinkles from living in Oahu and being in the sun. And he was perfect because I had gotten to know his soul before his outer Body.

    But yes , we do live in a shallow world in general. Very superficial. I have been lucky to find my tribe of like minded people that surround me and i am not letting it go. So that is the world I live in.
    "Be kind for everybody is fighting a great battle" Plato

  38. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Rosemarie For This Post:

    Ayt (16th September 2019), Deux Corbeaux (16th September 2019), Strat (16th September 2019), T Smith (17th September 2019), thepainterdoug (16th September 2019)

  39. Link to Post #20
    Avalon Member East Sun's Avatar
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    Default Re: WE FALL IN LOVE WITH BODIES, not people

    I believe I fell in love with youth and personality that included genuineness. And although change is inevitable we expect it
    and should not take it as anything but change. We change, others change, its all part of life.
    Question Everything, twice or maybe trice..........

  40. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to East Sun For This Post:

    Rosemarie (16th September 2019), thepainterdoug (16th September 2019)

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