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Thread: The Internet and The Shadow

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    Default Re: The Internet and The Shadow

    It is evident that the shadow exists around us and not only on the internet. But the internet allows for anonymity which may be why it has more of a presence on the internet.

    I recall some things that I did when I was very young. Well before the internet. I did not do them because of peer pressure or to show off or any reason that I can think of.

    So is it a part of us that surfaces when we are not controlling ourselves? Or is it an outside force that takes advantage of a person when their guard is down?

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Internet and The Shadow

    Quote Posted by petra (here)
    Trying to get back to topic, and understand WHY humans behave in this way - especially in regards to internet.

    I don't behave this way, and I'm human, so I'm confused and dubious about this 'dark side'. Do I have one? I imagine that I must (I'd just be blind to it because that's what evil does - makin' people blind), but that's suspicious too.

    Isn't this kind of like asking 'WHY are you people such assholes?'

    If someone were to ask me why I'm such an asshole.... I'd probably say 'what the heck are you talking about? I'm not an asshole'.

    I have asshole thoughts though sometimes, I think I can catch them though. Maybe the better question would be, why do I think like an asshole (ha ha)
    I think more the sentiment that was raised was, why is it that without "rules", some people see this as an opportunity to commit acts that are not appropriate or even harmful to others. Its as though some people are devoid of ethics and morals, and actually seem to "need" clear restrictions to keep them in line. With the restrictions, they do stay in line, but when given freedom, certain people see that as an open opportunity to commit some sort of abuse.

    I'm a total asshole, but not in any way that would hurt people in a measurable way - I just state the truth as it is, or my opinion as it is, and some people think of me as an ass for that because generally I don't cater to or for, emotional reactions. So there's all different levels of asshole, some are ok, some are not.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
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    Avalon Member Aragorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Internet and The Shadow

    Quote Posted by Patient (here)
    It is evident that the shadow exists around us and not only on the internet. But the internet allows for anonymity which may be why it has more of a presence on the internet.

    I recall some things that I did when I was very young. Well before the internet. I did not do them because of peer pressure or to show off or any reason that I can think of.

    So is it a part of us that surfaces when we are not controlling ourselves? Or is it an outside force that takes advantage of a person when their guard is down?
    It could be both. On account of explaining the part of us that surfaces when we are not controlling ourselves ─ which is a very apt description ─ we must look at Sigmund Freud's description of the id, the mindless primitive. Not to get too deep into Freud's own theories of psychoanalysis ─ which I don't always agree with anyway ─ the id is essentially the lowest level of consciousness we possess as humans, because it emanates from the body consciousness, and it is there as a survival mechanism.

    The id is self-protective and hedonistic in nature. Under certain conditions ─ when you are under a lot of stress, or when you are fatigued, or when you are being irritated by a seemingly ongoing and frustrating phenomenon ─ the id rises up and its ad hoc reasoning intermixes with our higher thoughts and feelings as humans. And that's when we find ourselves losing control of these instincts ─ which is what they really are ─ and we wish other traffic participants and their mother to hell, and things like that (or much worse, even).

    It is however imperative to your own peace of mind that you acknowledge where these thoughts come from. You must not deny their existence ─ that would only come around to bite you later ─ but you must acknowledge that these are not thoughts or feelings coming out of the debts of your soul. It is not who you are. It is simply part of your being as a protective shell around your physical existence, but it is not your essence.

    Now, on account of the second part of your question, the id can be manipulated and its influence on your thoughts and feelings can be reinforced by external factors, such as hostile entities trying to take you over. Nobody exists in a vacuum, and at the most fundamental level, all is one ─ we are all merely phantasms in the consciousness field of the Prime Creator ─ and this is what makes things like telepathy possible. And when you are fatigued, anguished, frustrated or otherwise under stress, you lose part of your control, and the id ─ while originally dormant in most people ─ awakens, and then an entity from outside of our physical reality can easily manipulate the id. Because at that point, our true essence, the person we really are, has been forced to relinquish control by the circumstances of the moment.

    People with a very low level of self-awareness and an equally low level of consciousness are most susceptible to this, and that is how you get temporary demonic possessions and walk-in situations.


    =================================================

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    [...]

    I think more the sentiment that was raised was, why is it that without "rules", some people see this as an opportunity to commit acts that are not appropriate or even harmful to others. Its as though some people are devoid of ethics and morals, and actually seem to "need" clear restrictions to keep them in line. With the restrictions, they do stay in line, but when given freedom, certain people see that as an open opportunity to commit some sort of abuse.

    [...]
    An astute observation. Yes, you are correct in that regard. But when it comes to people of low morals and low ethics, then we have to make a distinction between the psychopaths, who are born that way, and the sociopaths, who are made that way. And this is something I've already been saying for a long time ─ I've said it on various threads over at The One Truth ─ but our entire society model is geared towards creating sociopaths.

    People are generally quite adaptive ─ both at the conscious and subconscious level ─ and they will generally adapt to the changes in society, provided that the changes are subtle and that they come about through a natural evolution, as opposed to that they are suddenly being bestowed upon us, because that's when you see the reactionary people stand up and protest loudly. But if it's subtle, everyone will subconsciously assimilate the changes into their own being. And one of these changes that subtly crept in was the takeover of the various societies of the world by all kinds of power structures ─ governments, schools, religious institutions, and last but not least, the corporate world.

    For the corporate world, we are all sheeple whom they can feed off ─ they have us build their products, market them, and buy them, while they reap the profits off of our backs and gain enough power to, in turn, buy up smaller corporations and assimilate them. Each and every corporation is a monopolist at heart, because that's the ultimate goal they are all striving for. And it's a self-enforcing trap that they've created for themselves ─ out of greed, and out of a lust for power ─ and that they can now no longer step away from anymore, because there is too much at stake. They do have responsibilities ─ not that they give a rat's tail end about them, but those responsibilities are often supported by law and/or legally enforceable contracts. They've got employees who need to be paid, there are workers' rights movements and unions, and so on.

    Now, all of that serves as the backdrop for a psycho-social climate in which sociopathy thrives. The way to "move up" in that world ─ read: increase your chances of survival and wellbeing ─ is to behave sociopathically and opportunistically. Tread over corpses on your path up the ladder, and you'll get there. And at the same time, we are being slapped around all of the time by advertising, trying to sell us things we don't need, and which we may not be able to afford, but we just have to have them because Joe Sixpack from across the street and his wife also have them, and ─ in complete agreement with this society model ─ we're competing with them, so we have to have what they have, and preferably something even better than what they have.

    All of the above leads to the higher levels of consciousness getting pushed back into the mists of our awareness, and to the hedonistic and ever-self-protective id rising to the forefront and becoming a domineering factor in our behavior. Or at least, generally speaking, because people like us on forums like these, discussing subjects like this, are obviously aware of "something not being right" about this whole thing. But to the vast majority of the global civilization, this reign of the id is the ruling behavioral factor. We're all predators, because society has made us into that.

    Furthermore, the writing is all over the wall as a countless series of metaphors all over our cultural background. It has been poured into all kinds of legends, myths, sagas, literature and even movies ─ from the purported fall of the angels in Catholic lore, over Bram Stoker's Dracula, who went from being a knight fighting for Christianity to becoming a life-draining vampire, all the way to how Sméagol killed his cousin under the influence of Sauron's One Ring and turned into Gollum in Tolkien's books.

    Therefore, obviously, the phenomenon of corruption and moral degradation is well known. But somehow, humanity is already too far gone to realize that the fallen angels and the vampires are, in fact, us. And not only too far gone to realize, but so far gone even that the vast majority of us couldn't care less anymore. Their id has won the battle for control over their being.

    Last edited by Aragorn; 3rd October 2019 at 04:27.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Internet and The Shadow

    hey great post there Aragorn.

    you reminded me of something i wanted to say earlier about the shadow.

    i am by no means an expert or scholar on Jung, but i think what he meant when he suggested integrating our shadows into our personalities, was to simply acknowledge that we can be monsters..that we can be loaded weapons. and in acknowledging that, we can - if it doesn't traumatize us too much - learn how to manage that side of us.

    however, certain shadowy things like anger or aggression or even violence are useful to us at times...so it's good to be able to access them in appropriate situations. in a world of sociopaths and psychopaths, we'd be helpless without them. the "good guys" need those weapons too.

    i think in a forum setting, some members aren't managing the shadow, like i suggested earlier..they're instead deploying various parts of it like guided missiles....because, i think, they are too reserved or fearful in their everyday lives to do so.

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    Avalon Member Aragorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Internet and The Shadow

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    hey great post there Aragorn.

    you reminded me of something i wanted to say earlier about the shadow.

    i am by no means an expert or scholar on Jung, but i think what he meant when he suggested integrating our shadows into our personalities, was to simply acknowledge that we can be monsters..that we can be loaded weapons. and in acknowledging that, we can - if it doesn't traumatize us too much - learn how to manage that side of us.

    however, certain shadowy things like anger or aggression or even violence are useful to us at times...so it's good to be able to access them in appropriate situations. in a world of sociopaths and psychopaths, we'd be helpless without them. the "good guys" need those weapons too.

    i think in a forum setting, some members aren't managing the shadow, like i suggested earlier..they're instead deploying various parts of it like guided missiles....because, i think, they are too reserved or fearful in their everyday lives to do so.

    I hear you, Mike, and it's not just in a forum setting, but just about any other venue where people exclusively communicate through the written word.

    For the better part of the last decade, I ran an IRC network with a couple of other people, and of course, being the domain owner, senior network administrator and services root administrator, I was online every single day ─ even when I was sleeping, I was still logged in (in "away mode"), so that my IRC client software could log the conversations in my own channel, and so that it could also be automatically deployed as a defensive weapon by my colleagues in the event of an attack on the network by script kiddies with flood-join bots.

    Those bots are tools which those kiddies ─ some of them are only ten years old ─ can download from certain blackhat websites, because they are generally not smart enough to write such malware themselves, and then they use those tools for trying to bring an IRC network to its knees by way of what essentially amounts to a DDoS. And so I had written some scripts in my IRC client that ─ when activated ─ would automatically and instantly ban such connections, much faster than any human could, and my colleagues could trigger those scripts by way of a special code and syntax that they had to type in a staff-only channel, and then my computer would do the rest, even while I was away from the keyboard.

    Nevertheless, the above was meant to illustrate that my computer was connected to the network 24/7, and as I was writing that paragraph, I realized that this script kiddie behavior also qualifies as internet-related sociopathic behavior ─ some of them are even so arrogant that they open up a private window to you and start mocking and insulting you while their bots are flooding your server.

    But what I really meant to talk about was just how people behave on IRC. They don't see your face ─ they only see your name in a list to the right of the actual chat window, and they see the sentences you type. And conversely, you yourself only see the sentences that they in turn type. And then you get situations where people simply lose all dignity and respect. They start hurling racist slurs, they start randomly insulting people, and so on.

    Of course, if there is a channel operator ─ and he or she is at the keyboard and watching the channel ─ then they may find themselves kicked out of and/or banned from the channel. But then they can still join other channels ─ in fact, one can join multiple channels at the same time ─ and they can also start harassing you via private conversations. You can of course add them to an ignore list, and then everything they write will be muted, both in the channels and in private windows. But as ethical network administrators, we also had to keep in mind how these people were behaving across multiple channels, and/or whether they posed a threat to the technical operation of the servers, and that is then when we would ban them at either the server or network level ─ the possibilities are pretty fine-grained.

    Another typical example would be Facebook, where teenagers create defamatory pages about other teenagers, and this has already led to some of the targeted teenagers feeling so embarrassed that they committed suicide.

    But it goes farther than that. Even snail-mail letters written on the remnants of dead trees can be particularly unpleasant, and far more unpleasant than if the author of said letter would have stood face to face with the intended recipient. And it's not just between random individuals in society, but also in official communication. It's essentially everywhere in society, whenever the author doesn't have to look into the eyes of the recipient. And likewise, you see this in political decisions as well. In the most extreme example, it's the politicians who declare war, but it's the soldiers who have to go and fight them. To the politicians ─ and even to the generals ─ the deaths on the battlefield are merely statistics. It's easy for them to send another human being to die for their cause.

    It's all about the abstraction ─ a filter that dehumanizes the other party and reduces them to a sheet of white paper, or an editor window on a computer screen. And if you then throw in the dominance of the id... Well, there you go....
    Last edited by Aragorn; 3rd October 2019 at 09:25.

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    Default Re: The Internet and The Shadow

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    I think more the sentiment that was raised was, why is it that without "rules", some people see this as an opportunity to commit acts that are not appropriate or even harmful to others. Its as though some people are devoid of ethics and morals, and actually seem to "need" clear restrictions to keep them in line. With the restrictions, they do stay in line, but when given freedom, certain people see that as an open opportunity to commit some sort of abuse.
    Aha! Yes - I was blind to that part. There's no rules on the internet as far as I'm concerned. Access Denied... pfft

    I can relate to what you're saying because I remember being a child and being devoid in that way!! I used to shoplift, and I remember how powerful I felt - "Ha ha! I own the entire mall!". I was old enough to realize that I was young enough not to get into big trouble, and after I got caught eventually - I didn't do it anymore. If there wasn't some kind of consequence for stealing.... I might still be doing it - and that's worth pondering! Perhaps it's something to do with entitlement, because I used to feel kind of entitled.... but not any more.

    I actually recall waking up one morning with a much more of a conscience, I was about 13 or 14. Thinking back on it now, I wonder if I could have grew a conscience in my sleep

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    I'm a total asshole, but not in any way that would hurt people in a measurable way - I just state the truth as it is, or my opinion as it is, and some people think of me as an ass for that because generally I don't cater to or for, emotional reactions. So there's all different levels of asshole, some are ok, some are not.
    Pssh. I don't believe that you're an asshole. Maybe a 'pretend asshole' ;-)
    Assholes are mean - you're not mean.

    Remember the addage "The truth shall set you free but first it'll tick you off".. that's probably all that's happening. Those emotional reactions are clues, and if people were paying more attention they'd use the clues instead of getting devoured by them.

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    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Internet and The Shadow

    My last job rendered me a ghost. Unseen and unacknowledged to the point that when safety meetings would happen in the plant for all the other workers, I would be left out. There would be no one left on the floor while I would remain working. My safety didn't even rate a safety meeting, where of course I would have been very vocal because safety is my #1 concern. I would have saved a few accidents that eventually happened because no one thought of the repercussions - I did, but I was not at the meeting, consequently my boss was run over by a front-end loader and almost killed.

    These ghost jobs, faceless jobs that require a body but don't focus on the human being and their life, are the standard nowadays. The post office, liquor store, and countless others create part time job positions that are actually full time. Because they are classed as part time, no benefits have to be payed and no union laws have to be honored. Without representation or recognition, these workers are between a rock and a hard place. If they leave they will never be offered a full time position, if they stay they might have to remain part time literally for years. But they do get called in for safety meetings...

    My point is that so many people have had injustices visited upon them that they are quite beyond civility when they finally have a voice. They want to spew out a lifetime of stories and thoughts that have been bottled up for a long time. The vitriol that they experienced at the hands of their betters now has a venue for exposure since their turn to unload has arrived. It can easily come out in a rush with the same sentiment shown them all those years. It is understandable and excusable. Though not very high-minded.

    The anonymous part makes that much easier to do. But it is not necessary. It matters not a whit to me for example, but I am not anonymous. And my vitriol is almost all used up anyway.

    For me it comes down to the fact that I know I am in a war. I have been trained to act in an unnatural way, to pretend like there is no war, and that fact erases all attempts at civility for civility's sake. Civility must be earned in a war. But it is a covert war and I am not allowed to act as one would in an overt one. I must couch my words in innuendo and use guile and cleverness to cloak my meaning. This does not sit well with me.

    Agree we are in a war and I can be civil. Pretend like we aren't and we got a problem.
    Forget about it

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