Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Chose here means Jesus being chosen to be the messiah and sacrifice to the Father. It also means the Father, --- and Judge in this case, --- deciding to demand and accept what is synonymous to a bribe.

That is an evil act to most people.

If you were the god you are to emulate, would you send your child to die or would you step up?

Should sons bury fathers or should fathers bury sons?

Regards
DL

[enigma3]

Who died? Jesus did not die. He shed his body, but HE did not die. No one buried Jesus.

[greybeard]

It was evil to state Jesus died that we might be saved.
Chris

[Gracy]

Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
If you were the god you are to emulate, would you send your child to die or would you step up?

Neither. Why the need for a blood sacrifice in the first place?

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Gracy May (here)

Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
If you were the god you are to emulate, would you send your child to die or would you step up?

Neither. Why the need for a blood sacrifice in the first place?

Well, hold on, everyone. Language is a real problem here. Jesus wasn't God's anthropomorphic 'child', and God wasn't his anthropomorphic 'father'. All that was mythology ultra-simplified for the easiest digestion and acceptance by regular (usually illiterate) people.

Then all the metaphors got set in concrete over the years (also by Papal degree), and much of the linguistic nonsense was believed and indoctrinated literally.

For much more detail on all this, see this major thread:

• The real Jesus, the real Mary, Gnosis, the Archons, and the world's first major smear campaign

And also Hervé's excellent thread on how the wording of the Bible has been assembled, mistranslated, selected, twisted, edited, censored, and manipulated over the years, until what really happened back then may bear little resemblance to current dogmatic teachings.

• Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Posted by enigma3 (here)
Who died? Jesus did not die. He shed his body, but HE did not die. No one buried Jesus.

Ok and good.

If Jesus did not die, then the sacrifice never happened.

Who then is your savior and what did you do that was so bad that it earned you hell and the need for a savior?

Regards
DL

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by greybeard (here)
It was evil to state Jesus died that we might be saved.
Chris

I agree, as Jesus would have to break Jewish law, which he purportedly taught, to be what Christians want him to be.

Regards
DL

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Gracy May (here)

Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
If you were the god you are to emulate, would you send your child to die or would you step up?

Neither. Why the need for a blood sacrifice in the first place?

Exactly the right question.

There would be no need.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
[ All that was mythology ultra-simplified for the easiest digestion and acceptance by regular (usually illiterate) people.
]

Keeping people simple and gullible is a religious forte.
They are easier to fleece that way.

Your decent apologetics, especially to Gnostic Christian thinking, have prompted me to check your links.

Regards
DL

[greybeard]

Im afraid because I have had my own non-duality belief for so many years I, forget that many millions still believe that Jesus died on the cross for them.
Chris

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Im afraid because I have had my own non-duality belief for so many years I, forget that many millions still believe that Jesus died on the cross for them.
Chris

I have a thing I give them to remind them of the immorality of using a scapegoat.

It usually chases Christians away as they cannot do apologetics against it.

-----------

To Christians.

On Jesus dying for you to appease your swollen egos that wants you to think a god would actually die for you, after condemning you unjustly in the first place.

You have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil you make Jesus to keep your feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

You also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that you would teach your children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are doing just that.

Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fibre as Yahweh. Satan applauds you though as you are doing her work.

---------

greybeard

You need not opine as I doubt you would disagree, but if you do, please opine.

I can always learn something new.

Like where I find the avatar function.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Im afraid because I have had my own non-duality belief for so many years

How does that work buddy?

The tree of knowledge is dualistic. Good and evil.

I see good at one end of a graph and evil at the other.

If you see good at one end and do not think dualistically, show how you gage good and evil.

Regards
DL

[greybeard]

There are threads in the spirituality section on non duality so im not going into detail here --but basically"God" is omnipresent--everywhere--(consciousness)
That consciousness is like a thermometer -a lot of --- down to absence of --but heat non-the -less
Or electricity
So the Creator is voltage beyond belief --everything "else" still electricity (divine energy) but less.
Jesus said in the Bible "The Father and I are one--of myself I do nothing-it is the Father within" Jesus said we were exactly the same as Him, we could do he he did and more."

So non-duality also in the Bible.
People are free to believe in duality or non duality.

Chris

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Posted by greybeard (here)
There are threads in the spirituality section on non duality so im not going into detail here --but basically"God" is omnipresent--everywhere--(consciousness)
That consciousness is like a thermometer -a lot of --- down to absence of --but heat non-the -less
Or electricity
So the Creator is voltage beyond belief --everything "else" still electricity (divine energy) but less.
Jesus said in the Bible "The Father and I are one--of myself I do nothing-it is the Father within" Jesus said we were exactly the same as Him, we could do he he did and more."

So non-duality also in the Bible.
People are free to believe in duality or non duality.

Chris

We are a part of the all, all children of god, no argument.

To say that a supernatural god has consciousness would be a lie, unless one had proof.

Regards
DL

[Star Tsar]

My current position of understanding in this matter is that Jesus is Sol, Our star, God's Sun, light of this world.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Posted by Star Tsar (here)
My current position of understanding in this matter is that Jesus is Sol, Our star, God's Sun, light of this world.

Jesus never said he was god. In fact, Jesus had a healthy disrespect for literalism and the traditions that led to idol worship.

John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Regards
DL

[Bill Ryan]

What's the purpose of this thread? That's an honest question.

[Joe Akulis]

Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
Who then is your savior and what did you do that was so bad that it earned you hell and the need for a savior?

Savior? Hell?

Oh, you mean who will help guide me from this near-Earth plane of consciousness up past the lower astral realms should I ever have an out of body experience, or a near death experience, or eventually when I die. I get it.

Some people like Edgar Cayce had the experience to make this trip on his own, as he talked about when people asked him to describe how he performed readings for people. (The Akashic Library resides in the upper astral, and you can't get there without passing the lower areas.)

Other people like the Egyptians understood that the average citizen did not have enough experience and wisdom to attempt to navigate non-physical consciousness on their own, so they looked to their pharaohs to be there when they died. They understood their pharaohs to have this capability and to serve as their guides over and beyond the underworld.

A lot of people who have had near death experiences talk about beings of light or other forms of guides that are there to help with that situation. Some talk about being spiritually blindfolded until they have passed those lower realms.

The thing I've learned over my last two decades of study in the areas of NDE's, OBEs, reincarnation, Cayce material, and all the other cool stuff that comes up here on Avalon is, the next layer of consciousness--the non-physical stuff--is almost immediately responsive to your thoughts.

So if you're worried about anything at all that you encounter, or that you might encounter, just ask for help and it will be there.

Much love to all on this thread!

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
Who then is your savior and what did you do that was so bad that it earned you hell and the need for a savior?

Regards
DL

That's really quite a nasty question. Who was it addressed to, and why?

[greybeard]

Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
There are threads in the spirituality section on non duality so im not going into detail here --but basically"God" is omnipresent--everywhere--(consciousness)
That consciousness is like a thermometer -a lot of --- down to absence of --but heat non-the -less
Or electricity
So the Creator is voltage beyond belief --everything "else" still electricity (divine energy) but less.
Jesus said in the Bible "The Father and I are one--of myself I do nothing-it is the Father within" Jesus said we were exactly the same as Him, we could do he he did and more."

So non-duality also in the Bible.
People are free to believe in duality or non duality.

Chris

We are a part of the all, all children of god, no argument.

To say that a supernatural god has consciousness would be a lie, unless one had proof.

Regards
DL

Respectfully Its not that God has consciousness--God is the consciousness (life force-awareness) that pervades all.
We would get into trouble because of language.
Anything I say is coming from an understanding of what the mystics have said since time began.
Only one Consciousness. One without a second.
Regarding needing duality to know the difference between good and evil.
Taking temperature again--one knows when its cold outside without having to compare to a hot day--one just knows its best to wrap up.
So God is unconditional love and then there are degrees of love down to an absence of love.
Chris

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
What's the purpose of this thread? That's an honest question.

To show the immorality of the Christian ideology.

I am not into Goth but like this guys thinking.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=VNcRXeCzpno

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Joe Akulis

Cayce blew it on Atlantis, so I would take all he said with a grain of doubt.

Regards
DL