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Thread: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
    Who then is your savior and what did you do that was so bad that it earned you hell and the need for a savior?

    Regards
    DL
    That's really quite a nasty question. Who was it addressed to, and why?
    enigma3 because of the indication of a belief in Jesus.

    Why is it a nasty question?

    It is designed to have fools know for a fact that they were never condemned and that that is a lie to loosen their purse strings.

    I think the opposite view that the church lies about is really nasty. Lies usually are.



    Regards
    DL

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Quote Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    There are threads in the spirituality section on non duality so im not going into detail here --but basically"God" is omnipresent--everywhere--(consciousness)
    That consciousness is like a thermometer -a lot of --- down to absence of --but heat non-the -less
    Or electricity
    So the Creator is voltage beyond belief --everything "else" still electricity (divine energy) but less.
    Jesus said in the Bible "The Father and I are one--of myself I do nothing-it is the Father within" Jesus said we were exactly the same as Him, we could do he he did and more."

    So non-duality also in the Bible.
    People are free to believe in duality or non duality.

    Chris
    We are a part of the all, all children of god, no argument.

    To say that a supernatural god has consciousness would be a lie, unless one had proof.

    Regards
    DL
    Respectfully Its not that God has consciousness--God is the consciousness (life force-awareness) that pervades all.
    We would get into trouble because of language.
    Anything I say is coming from an understanding of what the mystics have said since time began.
    Only one Consciousness. One without a second.
    Regarding needing duality to know the difference between good and evil.
    Taking temperature again--one knows when its cold outside without having to compare to a hot day--one just knows its best to wrap up.
    So God is unconditional love and then there are degrees of love down to an absence of love.
    Chris
    That is duality and a graph would be analogically labelled a graph of the duality of good and evil.

    "Its not that God has consciousness--God is the consciousness (life force-awareness) that pervades all."

    A consciousness, yours for an example, is aware of it's existence. I think therefore I am, type of thinking.

    That is why I reject how you state your first point.

    It is either poorly said, or it breaks the law of the excluded middle.

    I do not see a point to having an argument on semantics though.

    Arguing the definitions of words can be boring.

    Regards
    DL

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Try this for size --on the link.
    This not secondhand or from any book.
    It is also the same as any Mystic Self Realized --I have read and thats quite a few.
    However each to their own.
    Chris

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post456904
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Quote Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
    Who then is your savior and what did you do that was so bad that it earned you hell and the need for a savior?

    Regards
    DL
    That's really quite a nasty question. Who was it addressed to, and why?
    enigma3 because of the indication of a belief in Jesus.

    Why is it a nasty question?
    Maybe you meant well rhetorically, but it came over as barbed and unpleasant. You may or may not have intended that!

    If I was the person addressed, I'd have been offended because
    1. I don't have a savior
    2. I don't need one
    3. Nothing has "earned me hell", and
    4. No-one is entitled to suggest any of the above to me. (Or, to anyone else.)
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 7th October 2019 at 21:43.

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Maybe Im being a bit hard but when a new member comes and immediately starts a thread and is non too polite on it, I dont think they have joined to interact with the forum as a whole.
    This is a good place to learn.
    Those with a single minded agenda dont last on the forum.
    I may be wrong but that's first impression.

    Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

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    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
    Who then is your savior and what did you do that was so bad that it earned you hell and the need for a savior?

    Regards
    DL
    That's really quite a nasty question. Who was it addressed to, and why?
    enigma3 because of the indication of a belief in Jesus.

    Why is it a nasty question?
    Maybe you meant well rhetorically, but it came over as barbed and unpleasant. You may or may not have intended that!

    If I was the person addressed, I'd have been offended because
    1. I don't have a savior
    2. I don't need one
    3. Nothing has "earned me hell", and
    4. No-one is entitled to suggest any of the above to me. (Or, to anyone else.)
    As I said, it was to who I saw as a believer and they always run from the truth of their believing a lie.

    Regards
    DL

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Quote Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
    Who then is your savior and what did you do that was so bad that it earned you hell and the need for a savior?

    Regards
    DL
    That's really quite a nasty question. Who was it addressed to, and why?
    enigma3 because of the indication of a belief in Jesus.

    Why is it a nasty question?
    Maybe you meant well rhetorically, but it came over as barbed and unpleasant. You may or may not have intended that!

    If I was the person addressed, I'd have been offended because
    1. I don't have a savior
    2. I don't need one
    3. Nothing has "earned me hell", and
    4. No-one is entitled to suggest any of the above to me. (Or, to anyone else.)
    As I said, it was to who I saw as a believer and they always run from the truth of their believing a lie.
    ~~~

    That was your second post on your first thread, and your second post after your account was activated. You've been here just one day.

    enigma3, who you don't know a single thing about, has posted 351 times over a period of more than 3 years. They're smart and respected, and were willing and game enough to engage with you having started what some might consider to be a provocative thread. (And you've still not responded to my question about its purpose.)

    Some might label your challenge to him (or is it her? You don't know) arrogant, inappropriate, aggressive (as was your explanation above) and full of assumptions. I'd like to suggest you're not doing very well, so far.

    If you believe yourself to be a teacher, and I'd guess you do, please go about this in a more effective and more pleasant way.

    — whatever it is!
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 7th October 2019 at 22:40.

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    For much more detail on all this, see this major thread:
    And also Hervé's excellent thread on how the wording of the Bible has been assembled, mistranslated, selected, twisted, edited, censored, and manipulated over the years, until what really happened back then may bear little resemblance to current dogmatic teachings.
    No time for Gnostic Christian Bishop to check out other threads.

    It appears Avalon is one of many forum stops. A few samples below and here.



    Last edited by RunningDeer; 7th October 2019 at 23:18.

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    For much more detail on all this, see this major thread:
    And also Hervé's excellent thread on how the wording of the Bible has been assembled, mistranslated, selected, twisted, edited, censored, and manipulated over the years, until what really happened back then may bear little resemblance to current dogmatic teachings.
    No time for Gnostic Christian Bishop to check out other threads.

    It appears Avalon is one of many forum stops. A few samples below and here.



    I have a groupie list. Care to join?

    Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

    Thanks for showing the size of your mind.

    Regards
    DL

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Please take care GCB that you don't cross lines of courtesy, especially repeatedly as you are doing. Disagreement is expected and not problem but discourtesy certainly is.

    You have been found to be posting the same subjects in other places by a loved and respected member of the forum who enjoys research. This is normal when a new member quickly shows they seem to be on a single subject crusade, we've seen this many times.

    Please remember to be courteous when you post.

    Quote I have a groupie list. Care to join?

    Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

    Thanks for showing the size of your mind.

    DL
    Regards
    A million galaxies are a little foam on that shoreless sea. ~ Rumi

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Quote Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
    I have a groupie list. Care to join?

    Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

    Thanks for showing the size of your mind.

    Regards
    DL
    No thanks. Your comments are reminiscent of being talked at. I was propagandized at a Catholic Academy, so I’m not big on bible speak, verse, psalm, New Testament, Old Testament…it all sounds the same.

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    A Christian prayer that demonstrates the calibre of Jesus’ esoteric knowledge. See beneath the surface and enjoy!

    The Lord’s Prayer

    Our Father, who art in heaven,
    hallowed be thy name;
    thy kingdom come;
    thy will be done;
    on earth as it is in heaven.
    Give us this day our daily bread.
    And forgive us our trespasses,
    as we forgive those who trespass against us.
    And lead us not into temptation;
    but deliver us from evil.
    For thine is the kingdom,
    the power and the glory,
    for ever and ever.
    Amen.

    Never give up on your silly, silly dreams.

    You mustn't be afraid to dream a little BIGGER, darling.

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Quote Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)

    I have a groupie list. Care to join?

    Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

    Thanks for showing the size of your mind.
    Unfortunately for G.C.B., he's unable to see the size of RunningDeer's heart, which is a s big as the great outdoors. Quite a shame. really.

    By the way, G.C.B. seems more than willing to demean and debase anyone who has a differing opinion or belief. That's hardly what I would call a "discussion".
    I am enlightened, ............ Oh wait. That's just the police shining their spotlights on me.

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    let me try to change a few the course of conversation, absolutely on context of God and creation. One can say this a mere point of view, but facing at unanswered questions, everything its still possible.

    Everyone knows (except the ignorant ones) that we have the ability today to make a virtual sphere ("a planet") of any size, put in it trillions of information, and generate "beings" who will learn the story we just created and believe that they live in a world that is millions of years old.

    What if we were also here on Earth, a mere experience of God, newly created ?

    So, To justify God's ways to the 21st century, What if God used Unix?
    here I am, but I don't belong to this world
    So, nothing there are here belongs to me.

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    It would seem that a lot of anger is promoted in this subject and similar ones.
    Where is the Love?
    Maybe the membership application form could be updated in a way that sorts out those with single minded agenda.
    Or applicants checked to see what they post on other forums.
    Just a suggestion.
    Chris
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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Quote Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
    It is designed to have fools know for a fact that they were never condemned and that that is a lie to loosen their purse strings.
    You're not bringing anything new to the table and calling people fools wont help drive your point home.

    Quote Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
    Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

    Thanks for showing the size of your mind.
    You need to kick rocks.
    Last edited by Strat; 8th October 2019 at 10:55.
    Just as every cop is a criminal
    And all the sinners saints

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Quote Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
    Quote Posted by enigma3 (here)
    Who died? Jesus did not die. He shed his body, but HE did not die. No one buried Jesus.
    Ok and good.

    If Jesus did not die, then the sacrifice never happened.

    Who then is your savior and what did you do that was so bad that it earned you hell and the need for a savior?

    Regards
    DL

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    It was evil to state Jesus died that we might be saved.
    Chris
    I agree, as Jesus would have to break Jewish law, which he purportedly taught, to be what Christians want him to be.

    Regards
    DL

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Gracy May (here)
    Quote Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
    If you were the god you are to emulate, would you send your child to die or would you step up?
    Neither. Why the need for a blood sacrifice in the first place?
    Exactly the right question.

    There would be no need.

    Regards
    DL
    Hi, have you considered the idea that Christ made a Cosmic/Karmic sacrifice to the Demiurge which was only mirrored on earth in his "physical" death?

    I have read an interesting view which I have to admit is very attractive to me, that Christ paid a 'Karmic' ransom to the Demiurge and company in lieu of the karmic debt owed by all the True Seeds of the Father trapped here (the Divine Sparks). This ransom fulfils the law, the Gods of Karma get what was coming to them, but Christ has essentially paid for our return ticket home.

    The rub is that to avail of this karma contract busting deal you have to invoke it at the time of death demanding your release from the wheel and free passage back to the Hyper-Cosmoi of the Divine Father.

    This idea I believe would be easy to support with Gnostic scripture, it does not contradict for example the Gnostic idea that Jesus came to dispel ignorance because unless one awakens to the illusion and has the strong desire for something that is missing that is BEYOND what we have and what we are here, then remaining ignorant of the ransom paid ensures the captors can detain the captives indefinitely, the prisoner must demand his freedom!

    In this karmic ransom scenario, Jesus's death on the cross whether it was with a literal flesh body or in some illusory/etheric body which just appeared real is almost irrelevant as is whether he then truly died or not - all those arguments become somewhat pedantic- his crucifixion was just a symbolic expression of the true karmic/energy sacrifice, a mirror image in the great simulacrum.

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Quote Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop, replying to RunningDeer (here)
    Thanks for showing the size of your mind.
    Quote Posted by Orph (here)
    Unfortunately for G.C.B., he's unable to see the size of RunningDeer's heart, which is a s big as the great outdoors. Quite a shame. really.
    Exactly. —> RunningDeer.

    Gnostic Christian Bishop's account is now closed. But it seems he has plenty of other places on the net to share his barbed, arrogant, know-it-all posts. If we ever care to, we can observe from a safe distance.

    To others reading this:
    1. Avalon is a place to show friendliness and respect, almost always well-deserved and well-rewarded, for other members. The community here is noted for its intelligence, awareness, knowledge about all subjects (including Gnosticism!), and kindness. (Kindness is important. Jesus, whoever he was, might agree.)
    2. New members are all genuinely most welcome here. But it's smart and wise to get to know the community just a little before standing on a soapbox and hurling rhetorical insults at fine people you don't even know.
    Last edited by Tintin; 8th October 2019 at 14:11.

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Another intellectual elitist narcissist bites the dust, what a surprise.

    My take away is just what type of people populate this forum. Everyone gets a chance - even if they don't deserve it. Some get 15 pages of chances some only two...but they are all given the benefit of the doubt.

    Thanks Avalon. It's literally why I am still here.
    Forget about it

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    Morocco Avalon Member PurpleLama's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    Another intellectual elitist narcissist bites the dust, what a surprise.

    My take away is just what type of people populate this forum. Everyone gets a chance - even if they don't deserve it. Some get 15 pages of chances some only two...but they are all given the benefit of the doubt.

    Thanks Avalon. It's literally why I am still here.
    Well said, Ernie.
    God bless the Fae
    God bless Me

  36. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to PurpleLama For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (8th October 2019), Ernie Nemeth (8th October 2019), greybeard (8th October 2019), meeradas (22nd October 2019), Rosemarie (9th October 2019), RunningDeer (8th October 2019), Sadieblue (8th October 2019), Valerie Villars (8th October 2019), Wind (8th October 2019)

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