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Thread: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Quote Posted by pueblo (here)
    Hi, have you considered the idea that Christ made a Cosmic/Karmic sacrifice to the Demiurge which was only mirrored on earth in his "physical" death?

    I have read an interesting view which I have to admit is very attractive to me, that Christ paid a 'Karmic' ransom to the Demiurge and company in lieu of the karmic debt owed by all the True Seeds of the Father trapped here (the Divine Sparks). This ransom fulfils the law, the Gods of Karma get what was coming to them, but Christ has essentially paid for our return ticket home.

    The rub is that to avail of this karma contract busting deal you have to invoke it at the time of death demanding your release from the wheel and free passage back to the Hyper-Cosmoi of the Divine Father.

    This idea I believe would be easy to support with Gnostic scripture, it does not contradict for example the Gnostic idea that Jesus came to dispel ignorance because unless one awakens to the illusion and has the strong desire for something that is missing that is BEYOND what we have and what we are here, then remaining ignorant of the ransom paid ensures the captors can detain the captives indefinitely, the prisoner must demand his freedom!

    In this karmic ransom scenario, Jesus's death on the cross whether it was with a literal flesh body or in some illusory/etheric body which just appeared real is almost irrelevant as is whether he then truly died or not - all those arguments become somewhat pedantic- his crucifixion was just a symbolic expression of the true karmic/energy sacrifice, a mirror image in the great simulacrum.
    This is really really good... thanks for the summary pueblo. The word 'ransom' really hits a chord with me.

    I'm seeing a common theme of "self sacrifice", and although it's certainly a noble thing to do as a human, I consider what if God were to "sacrifice" himself? By my definition of God, everything would cease to exist if God did that, and I imagine God would be too smart to fall for that one.

    As for people's suffering (including Jesus) I feel as if God suffers with us. And as for Jesus, I think he's probably perfectly happy doing God's bidding.

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to petra For This Post:

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Some say that god did just that with creation - gave everything including itself. Because by doing so, by creating with the divine will and spark suffused into creation itself, one day that creation would remember itself in totality - and become the new living god!
    Forget about it

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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    The myth of a God or his son dying for his flock, could have been rooted in pragmatism. Many pre Christian societies sacrificed humans, and so its possible the intent of the myth was to stem the tide of human sacrifice. As far as blood sacrifice of animals, the intent may have been to offer an animal to 'the Gods' before they mutilated your cattle, sheep, goats or whatever. A form of appeasement. Maybe animal mutilations were really frequent back then.

    As far as the question is God really Satan? That's creating a straw man or straw entity of some kind to tear it down.

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    Question Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    I remember a Alien UFO Abduction Research Group on PalTalk Chat Room called: I.C.A.R.

    Where you can interact using the mic to speak and text chat to all who is in the room, average between 50 and 75 members were present (24/7) from all over the world in approx 2003 up to 2011 I was one of the admins back then ... speaking with like minded people from over 10+ Countries 24/7.

    Then somebody from UK using the nickname "AtreidesUK" asking the question: "Was Jesus an Alien?"

    Half of all members were "offended" by that question and demanded everybody to be banned if you repeat that question ever again lol ... I wonder why.


    Back then I knew all colleague ICAR PalTalk Room admins!
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 8th October 2019 at 23:39.
    ~no need2follow anyone only consider to broaden (y)our horizon of possibilities
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    UK Moderator and Librarian Tintin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Perhaps we should close this thread?

    The premise - OP - is just wrong. (I'll report it to the team)

    ....which I duly did and was ensconced in a Heimlich manoeuvre - no, only kidding - but must consider rolling back on the roll-ups
    Last edited by Tintin; 9th October 2019 at 00:10.
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    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Quote Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop (here)
    Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

    Chose here means Jesus being chosen to be the messiah and sacrifice to the Father. It also means the Father, --- and Judge in this case, --- deciding to demand and accept what is synonymous to a bribe.

    That is an evil act to most people.

    If you were the god you are to emulate, would you send your child to die or would you step up?

    Should sons bury fathers or should fathers bury sons?

    Regards
    DL
    Is considering (and thus imposing) the paradigm suggested by this post just?

    [EDIT ADDED] - good - unsubscribed in short order
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Administrator Cara's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    The myth of a God or his son dying for his flock, could have been rooted in pragmatism. Many pre Christian societies sacrificed humans, and so its possible the intent of the myth was to stem the tide of human sacrifice. As far as blood sacrifice of animals, the intent may have been to offer an animal to 'the Gods' before they mutilated your cattle, sheep, goats or whatever. A form of appeasement. Maybe animal mutilations were really frequent back then. ...
    This idea seems to be similar to the ideas of René Girard:

    Quote René Noël Théophile Girard (/ʒɪəˈrɑːrd/;[2] French: [ʒiʁaʁ]; 25 December 1923 – 4 November 2015) a French historian, literary critic, and philosopher of social science whose work belongs to the tradition of anthropological philosophy.
    ...

    Girard believed that human development occurs initially through a process of observational mimicry, where the infant develops desire through a process of learning to copy adult behaviour, fundamentally linking acquisition of identity, knowledge and material wealth to the development of a desire to have something others possess.

    All conflict, competition and rivalry therefore originate in mimetic desire (mimetic rivalry), which eventually reaches destructive stages of conflict both between individuals and social groups that requires them to blame someone or something in order to diffuse conflict through the scapegoat mechanism. Unable to assume responsibility or engage in self-reflection to recognize their own part in the conflict, humans individually and cross-tribaly unite, of diffuse conflict, by murdering the king or whoever appears to have the least support in the conflict, and then recognizing when the person died how much less stress they have, and the unification leads to them eventually thinking of the deposed dead king as god, ie. deification or sanctification. Or, guilt is ascribed to an innocent third-party, whose murder permits the creation of a common unifying mythological underlay necessary for the foundation of human culture.

    For Girard, religion and mythology were therefore necessary steps in human evolution to control the violence that arises from mimetic rivalry and unequal distribution of desirable things. Religion directed the scapegoat impulse on imaginary concepts, such as Satan or demons, the absence of which would see an increase in human conflict, according to Girard. His ideas ran sharply contrary to the post-modernism in vogue through most of his life, and his views of human nature were pessimistic in contrast with the mainstream currents of his time. Girard saw religion as an essential instrument of cohesion, believing that the primary purpose of sacred texts was to end the practice of human sacrifice through ritualisticaly surrogating for the behaviour triggered by scapegoat mechanism, adopting and expanding many of Nietzsche's ideas.
    From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Girard

    ~~~

    David Cayley interviewed Girard for a radio programme in Canada in a five part series called The Scapegoat: René Girard's Anthropology of Violence and Religion.

    These are discussions more than interviews, and the first part is here: http://www.davidcayley.com/podcasts/...and-religion-2

    Here is a full list of all the interviews David Cayley did on/with René Girard including the above series and two more:
    http://www.davidcayley.com/podcasts/...ry/René+Girard

    ~~~

    The ideas of René Girard seem to have attracted slightly more interest recently and there are several lectures on YouTube discussing his ideas. There’s also a website - https://www.imitatio.org/brief-intro/ - which is dedicated to his theories on mimicry.
    Last edited by Cara; 9th October 2019 at 08:57.
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