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Thread: Doing well in an infrastructure collapse

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Doing well in an infrastructure collapse

    Hello, Everyone: of course, this thread is prompted by my direct personal experience of
    But don't forget, this stuff is all around, and maybe closer than one might think. We have
    And don't ever rule out Turmoil in the US and the UK, as well. None of that is impossible. It might even be likely.

    And to put all that in the shade, we have wnlight's speculative thread
    and my "What if?" response
    These last two threads contain a lot of intelligent and informed discussion.

    Now, what really prompted this thread was a combo of my current experience in Ecuador (roads blocked, nationwide protests, scarcity of supplies, or inability to reach them) — and the last thread above, considering the hypothetically global impact of major earth changes, even thousands of miles away.

    I talk with wnlight (Warren Light) regularly about this. My constant thesis is that we can so easily underestimate the knock-on domino-chain effects of apparently isolated incidents.

    We've seen this in Ecuador. It's nowhere near over. Even relatively simple, but determined, protests have brought the entire country to a grinding halt.

    But at least we still have electronic communication. All of that's intact and working normally. And so are the banks and ATMs. And there are no epidemics, or anything like that.

    It's a hassle, but actually trivial in the bigger picture. It's really just about supply chains of food, fuel, materials and people (who are part of the supply chain, because many of them can't get to work).

    So if something REALLY MAJOR happens — as Warren is genuinely worried may occur — I'm pretty sure that absolutely everything would collapse, and more. No travel, no fuel, no food, no cash, no power, no healthcare, no effective police, no communications. That's a different scale of problem.

    So all this is thought-provoking. As has been observed many times over, we're all only ever a few days away from the stone age. Without food, water, fuel, or power, how many of us would make it through easily?

    Graham Hancock has noted MANY times now that if there were an event now like the one that wiped out the great civilization 12,500 years ago, only indigenous hunter-gatherer humans would survive. No-one else has the skills or experience or resourcefulness. Forget your iPhone. It won't save you now.

    I'm just fine here and now. I have food and water and fuel to last a while. But I nearly didn't.... I made it to the local market on Sunday, and came back with a lot of fresh produce. But yesterday, that same road was cut off.

    So now I'm on my own, quietly hunkered down. All's well, and it's minor. But it REALLY makes one think.

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    Default Re: Doing well in an infrastructure collapse

    Let's look at navigation through a collapse. Preparation by phase:

    Phase 1
    • Have a water plan. Where is the water supply? Are portable containers available? How far must water be carried? Is it safe to travel?
    • Find a water filter that matches the budget and needs. Three days without clean water then nothing else will be needed.
    • Find an emergency cook stove. Carefully consider the fuel source. Wood is usually available but cannot be used indoors without an externally vented chimney. Butane and propane can be used indoors. How will you start a fire?
    • Purchase a variety of seasoning to avoid food fatigue. Make the same food taste different.
    • Purchase a few extra cans of food and dehydrated food from your local supermarket during each visit.
    • Have plans for emergency lighting, clothes washing, self defense, communicating with family members if cell phones do not work. Amateur radio is likely to become the most reliable communication for long and short range communication. Get a license.
    • How does one deal with no toilet paper?
    • Stock up on soap. Lots of it. Very important and inexpensive.
    • Purchase a first aid kit and get training. In a grid down scenario little problems become major problems.
    • Have a security plan and a caching plan.
    • Have a plan to stay warm in cold weather without electricity. Is a wood stove installed and is fuel available? An alternative is a small portable propane heater that can keep at least one room warm.

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    Default Re: Doing well in an infrastructure collapse

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    Let's look at navigation through a collapse. Preparation by phase:

    Phase 1
    • Have a water plan. Where is the water supply? Are portable containers available? How far must water be carried? Is it safe to travel?
    • Find a water filter that matches the budget and needs. Three days without clean water then nothing else will be needed.
    • Find an emergency cook stove. Carefully consider the fuel source. Wood is usually available but cannot be used indoors without an externally vented chimney. Butane and propane can be used indoors. How will you start a fire?
    • Purchase a variety of seasoning to avoid food fatigue. Make the same food taste different.
    • Purchase a few extra cans of food and dehydrated food from your local supermarket during each visit.
    • Have plans for emergency lighting, clothes washing, self defense, communicating with family members if cell phones do not work. Amateur radio is likely to become the most reliable communication for long and short range communication. Get a license.
    • How does one deal with no toilet paper?
    • Stock up on soap. Lots of it. Very important and inexpensive.
    • Purchase a first aid kit and get training. In a grid down scenario little problems become major problems.
    • Have a security plan and a caching plan.
    • Have a plan to stay warm in cold weather without electricity. Is a wood stove installed and is fuel available? An alternative is a small portable propane heater that can keep at least one room warm.
    Store food you actually eat, otherwise it will go bad.

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    Default Re: Doing well in an infrastructure collapse

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    Let's look at navigation through a collapse.
    This is an excellent post and list!

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    How will you start a fire?
    Also, how will you stop one. Sometimes fires do naughty things, have the means to control them on hand.
    Those of the positive polarity are of service when by action or thought or even intention, another entity or the self is freer to seek his or her own path than before the intended service was performed. --L/Leema

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    Default Re: Doing well in an infrastructure collapse

    Hi Bill, after seeing recent event in your neck of the words, it made me see how important it would be to have a 'Bolt hole' and or a 'Emergency safe spot'.
    Living in the sort of area that you do it, would be wise if you had a hidden long life store somewhere.
    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
    We need LEADERS who bat from the HEART!
    Rise up above them Dark evil doers, not within anger but with LOVE

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    Default Re: Doing well in an infrastructure collapse

    I once saw a video made by a prepper who said something like...."and one day it occured to me its not really beans and bullets that will be the cornerstone of survival...it will be conhection and community."

    I thought this was quite insightful as it is an aspect of survival that can easily be overlooked. Thinking of potential scenarios makes me think i should make more effort to know my neighbors. We live in a little valley with a spread of about 50 families. We have a garden and 9 chickens, our neighbors accross the road have about 40 beef cattle. There is a jersey dairy up the road. One neighbor has heaps of citrus trees. Another is a woodworker.... anyway obviously in a system collapse scenario we would all be better off if we came together and shared resources.

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    Default Re: Doing well in an infrastructure collapse

    My experiences here in Ecuador are a bit of a hassle, but it's all relatively minor in the bigger picture. Like a tiny wake-up-call dress-rehearsal for a more major event that could maybe last for a long time.

    The one big learning point for me from all this is how very quickly things can change. Literally overnight: one doesn't necessarily get a bunch of preparedness notice.

    It's so easy (and inexpensive!) to have a few basics on hand in storage. Batteries, soap, candles, matches, rice, flour, salt, oil, etc. All that only costs a few $$. A water filter (just a simple little one that one can drink through) also costs very little. And/or iodine drops to purify catchment water.

    I have all this stuff, and when doing an inventory I figured I'd be all fine for maybe a month or so. But it's conceivable that under some circumstances that might not be enough. So as soon as things return to normal here (which they will!), I'll beef up my supplies a little. It's all been quite interesting.

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    Default Re: Doing well in an infrastructure collapse

    If one is prepping for more than a short term emergency, or several short term emergencies consider adding Phase 2.

    Phase 2
    • Purchase a higher capacity water filter if needed. Consider your neighbors.
    • Purchase an electric food dehydrator that matches budget and needs. Purchase or make a solar dehydrator for use when electricity is not available. Start dehydrating.
    • Learn how to dehydrate food, about shelf life, and how to cook dehydrated food.
    • Select and purchase one or more accessories to vacuum pack food at home..
    • Purchase small suitable containers (Mason jars, P.E.T.E. jars, Mylar bags) suitable for vacuum packed food. Plastic bags are not suitable for long term storage.
    • Purchase (or construct) an emergency composting toilet that fits within the budget. Cover deposits with peat moss or sawdust. It will not stink. When full, empty the container into the active chamber of a dual chamber compost bin.
    • Expand the first aid kit and get more training.
    Last edited by Ron Mauer Sr; 10th October 2019 at 18:42.

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    Default Re: Doing well in an infrastructure collapse

    Short term preps

    1. learn how to can and makes preserves: pickles, meats vegetables and much more can all be done
    2. growing sprouts, etc is cheap and easy
    3. beans, corn, rice, pulses all store well if stored properly
    4. if possible get some laying chickens
    5. stock up on canned goods rotate as needed

    Many resources here on Avalon and elsewhere!

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    Default Re: Doing well in an infrastructure collapse

    In situations like these:

    Dress down and rough.
    Don't buy lots of supplies at once, don't let people see you buying lots.
    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
    We need LEADERS who bat from the HEART!
    Rise up above them Dark evil doers, not within anger but with LOVE

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    Default Re: Doing well in an infrastructure collapse

    Here is a link to 19Gigabytes of preparedness and homesteading resources

    http://volusiacountyprepping.com/resourcefiles/

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    Default Re: Doing well in an infrastructure collapse

    I don't have too much to add here other than some notes. When preparing for hurricane evacuations we have to do similar things. This list is more so for a weeks worth of supplies rather than a full on infrastructure collapse, but still I think it's worth reading.

    1 If you take medications make sure you are well stocked
    2 Keep your gas tank full in your car. I do this anyway, it's better for the car. Also fill up gas cans (for the car).
    3 Buy an inverter. Your car will double as a light duty generator this way.
    4 When it comes to food, try not to buy stuff that needs water to cook like rice and beans. Look more into spam, peanut butter, tuna and canned goods. MRE's are over rated.
    5 For heating goods buy 99% rubbing alcohol, put a small amount in a can and light it. It makes a hot flame. Sterno Stoves suck! Try it.
    6 Do these things now. Don't wait, if you do it'll be too much to handle all at once.
    7 Oh and of course, you'll want to plan on having 1 gallon of drinking water per day
    Last edited by Strat; 11th October 2019 at 02:59.
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    Default Re: Doing well in an infrastructure collapse

    ​If you can form some kind of alliance with your neighbors you may be better off. But be careful, go slow because loose lips sink ships.


    ​ ​ Phase 3 (if finances improve)
    Last edited by Ron Mauer Sr; 11th October 2019 at 20:23.

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    Default Re: Doing well in an infrastructure collapse

    This continuing experience in Ecuador (there's no let-up here!) has been so very useful. It's made me aware of two things I don't have, and I really should.
    • A mountain bike.
    • A fishing rod (or even just some line + hooks).
    The first is quite expensive (maybe $200), but a spool of line and a few hooks would cost pennies. I don't like catching fish, but I used to when I was a teenager, and I know exactly how. I have a little creek 100 yards from my house packed with small trout. In a real emergency, that becomes a valuable survival source.

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  29. Link to Post #15
    Fiji Avalon Member Sunny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Doing well in an infrastructure collapse

    Quote Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
    I once saw a video made by a prepper who said something like...."and one day it occured to me its not really beans and bullets that will be the cornerstone of survival...it will be conhection and community."

    I thought this was quite insightful as it is an aspect of survival that can easily be overlooked. Thinking of potential scenarios makes me think i should make more effort to know my neighbors. We live in a little valley with a spread of about 50 families. We have a garden and 9 chickens, our neighbors accross the road have about 40 beef cattle. There is a jersey dairy up the road. One neighbor has heaps of citrus trees. Another is a woodworker.... anyway obviously in a system collapse scenario we would all be better off if we came together and shared resources.
    I remember reading an essay by a man from Kosovo. He was an ordinary person who found himself in the middle of a war, and he and everyone around him had nothing to eat. His advice was, the best way to survive is to be with other people.

    He had a group of friends, and every day each person would go in a different direction. One person would go in the woods and forage, another person would see if the Americans were dropping MRE's, someone else would look for food someplace else. He said if he had been alone, he would not have survived.

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    Canada Avalon Member
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    Default Re: Doing well in an infrastructure collapse

    meetup.com usually has links to prepper groups local to many areas.

    Mormons in the USA and Canada have places where you can bulk purchase dry good and can them yourself. They allow anyone to go. I have taken several groups there.
    They also ship in the USA am not certain about internationally. I am not certain if their bulk prices are best.....but their canning options are great.

    The website I linked has several resources. https://providentliving.churchofjesu...s-map?lang=eng



    https://providentliving.churchofjesu...s-map?lang=eng

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